PipeChat Digest #1651 - Tuesday, November 7, 2000

 

Re: Olivera

  by "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net>

Re: EM Skinner replacement

  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>

MP Moller Opus 5354 info. available????

  by "Jan S. VanDerStad" <dorian@nac.net>

Re: MP Moller Opus 5354 info. available????

  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>

Re: Fw: EM Skinner replacement

  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>

Old Skinner to be replaced?

  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>

Re: Fw: EM Skinner replacement

  by <Cremona502@cs.com>

Re: MP Moller Opus 5354 info. available????

  by "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersv.edu>

RE: Trackers, EPs and volume

  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>

Re: Cross poster - Old Skinner to be replaced?

  by <Cremona502@cs.com>

Re: Cross poster - Old Skinner to be replaced?

  by <Cremona502@cs.com>

Re: Old Skinner to be replaced?

  by <Cremona502@cs.com>

Re: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement

  by <Cremona502@cs.com>

Fw: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement

  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>

PLEASE READ Re: Old Skinner to be replaced?

  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>

Re: Olivera

  by "Dan Miller" <dmiller@rodgers.rain.com>

Rumor Mills and Organ Building

  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>

7th Heaven Church & Organ

  by "Jim Zimmerman" <jrzimmer@purdue.edu>

Re: EM Skinner replacement

  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>

Re: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement

  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>

What we played!  was Re: Fw: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement

  by "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com>

Re: EM Skinner replacement

  by "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net>

Re: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement

  by <RMaryman@aol.com>

Rumor Mills and Organ Building-Hearty Amen

  by "Ben Baldus" <bbaldus@voyager.net>

Organ Questions/Replys

  by "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org>

 


(back) Subject: Re: Olivera From: "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net> Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2000 07:49:37 -0500   At 04:19 PM 11/6/00 -0800, Ronald Warren wrote: >Any new CD'S by Hector Olivera ?   Hi, Y'all!   Interestingly enough, just yesterday, Hector's new all C=E9sar Franck disk arrived in the mail as a gift. I helped a little bit with microphone placement and odds-and-ends like that when it was recorded in Miami.   The sound is stunning. The new organ at the St. Mary's Cathedral is magnificently recorded.=20   I don't know who will distribute the c.d., but there should be some announcement in TAO soon.   Yours,   Darryl by the Sea    
(back) Subject: Re: EM Skinner replacement From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 21:09:02 +0800   I don't agree!! I am faced with a line of 43 stop keys right across the = console. I nearly fall off the stool reaching the end tabs. Draw knobs would have = every stop within easy reach. The other solution would be a horse shoe console = which I do not want. Bob E.   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 08:02 PM 11/6/2000 -0600, you wrote: > >The organist wants a stop-key (tablet) > > >console > > >as his training and predilection is for Theater Organs.<snip> > > Well, nothing wrong with that. Anyone with any sense will agree that = tabs > are far more ergonomic and easier to register than those silly > knobs! Electric action obviated the need for drawknobs entirely, but > people just seem to think they're "sexy", for some reason. I opine that > they're an encumbrance, although a fairly standardized one. > > > He cannot seem to > > >grasp > > >that replacing the console will not allow him to unify certain stops = and he > > >favors > > >such things as 2 ft intermanual couplers. > ><snip><snip> > > Oh, dear. Well, I'll have to throw in with the organ, just from what = I've > heard here! It's quite obvious that Mr. Octogenarian wants to play a > Wurlitzer, which, of course, a Skinner could never be! However, I also > must state that, in my opinion, much of Skinner's early work was totally > unsatisfactory from the standpoint of decent ensemble, enamored as he = was > with the tonal ideals of Hope-Jones (although he denied this for > years). Early work of Skinner's, before his having an epiphany of the > concept of principal choruses in England in the '20s, tended to be > mish-mash collections of unison ranks of non-related stops of various > timbre, more closely approximating the ideal of the "orchestral" organ > along the lines of the "unit orchestra"...sans unification, of course! > > Keep the organ, offer the organist a nice pension. > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE: http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: MP Moller Opus 5354 info. available???? From: "Jan S. VanDerStad" <dorian@nac.net> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 09:34:21 -0500   Hello piporg-l   I'm currently looking for info. on M. P. Moller's Opus 5354. It was built in 1928 or 1929. Does anybody know where copies of the paperwork on this organ can be found, if possible? Where were all the Moller archives relocated to following their bankruptcy?   Thanks in advance,   Jan S. VanDerStad  
(back) Subject: Re: MP Moller Opus 5354 info. available???? From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 09:57:31 EST   In a message dated 11/7/00 9:36:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, = dorian@nac.net writes:   << Where were all the Moller archives relocated to following their bankruptcy? >> The Allen company bought the Moller name. I don't know if they have all = the records or if they went to the OHS archive at Westminster College in Princeton.   Alan B  
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: EM Skinner replacement From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 09:45:20 -0500   >As much as I like theatre organs, I'll join in the campaign to save this >EMS. > >Rick   If it is the organist I believe it is, he was the last staff organist at the Bardavon theater Wurli.   John V      
(back) Subject: Old Skinner to be replaced? From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 10:58:57 -0500   Dear Pipe chatters,   I believe I now have the whole picture on this. From what I gather the favored proposal is to rebuild the Skinner console with a more modern control system. In other words: It will look like it came from the = factory, be fully functional and more. And the organ itself will be unaltered. The current organist is in favor of this approach and he should be supported = in this particular effort.   My sources are impeccable and I respect their wishes to try and put this = to bed before it gets out of control.   John V        
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: EM Skinner replacement From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 12:03:51 EST   In a message dated 11/6/00 10:09:12 PM Eastern Standard Time, opus1100@catoe.org writes:   << Maybe this jerk organist should look for a pizza parlor job >> Or a funeral parlour!! ;-)   Bruce . . . Cremona502@cs.com in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles . . . Duncan, Miles, and Molly visit CornelyCues & Howling Acres: Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: MP Moller Opus 5354 info. available???? From: "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersv.edu> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:08:04 -0500 (EST)   It was built for Church of the Covenant, Patterson NJ. 2 manuals, 32 "regiosters" (which includes non-speaking things such as couplers, tremolo, etc.).   On Tue, 7 Nov 2000, Jan S. VanDerStad wrote:   > Hello piporg-l > > I'm currently looking for info. on M. P. Moller's Opus 5354. It was > built in 1928 or 1929. Does anybody know where copies of the paperwork > on this organ can be found, if possible? Where were all the Moller > archives relocated to following their bankruptcy? > > Thanks in advance, > > Jan S. VanDerStad > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: RE: Trackers, EPs and volume From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 12:18:28 -0600   Scott: Thanks again for your most generous hosting of my visit to the Shrine. It was a splendid experience, as I had hoped, and meeting you was a special treat. I look forward to our next get-together, probably at OHS in June. Cheers, Peter      
(back) Subject: Re: Cross poster - Old Skinner to be replaced? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:54:07 EST   In a message dated 11/6/00 10:57:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, charder@mail.ties.k12.mn.us writes:   << Did I understand the original posting correctly? I was under the impression that the console, not the whole organ, was under threat of = being replaced. >>   As I read it, the console was the primary target, although the organist probably thinks that IS the whole organ. He wanted impossible additions = such as much unification, and basically demonstrated that he had little = knowledge of the organ.   However, with a vintage Skinner, the console ABSOLUTELY SHOULD NOT be replaced. It is one of the most significant aspects of Skinner's work = Once any tinkering has been done, the door is opened to more: why not change this, last year we changed that??? yada yada yada   I sent a letter. I hope many others do as well. It would be = interesting to know the specification of this instrument. Anyone?   Bruce . . . Cremona502@cs.com in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles . . . Duncan, Miles, and Molly visit CornelyCues & Howling Acres: Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Cross poster - Old Skinner to be replaced? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:54:10 EST   In a message dated 11/7/00 12:20:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, orge@dreamscape.com writes:   << "...I respect the wisdom that may come with age...."> Be careful, some well-aged items can be bitter. : >>   The operative word here being MAY! Also cometh senility!   Bruce . . . Cremona502@cs.com in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles . . . Duncan, Miles, and Molly visit CornelyCues & Howling Acres: Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Old Skinner to be replaced? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:54:15 EST   In a message dated 11/7/00 11:23:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, jovanderlee@vassar.edu writes:   << I believe I now have the whole picture on this. From what I gather the favored proposal is to rebuild the Skinner console with a more modern control system. In other words: It will look like it came from the = factory, be fully functional and more. And the organ itself will be unaltered. The current organist is in favor of this approach and he should be supported = in this particular effort. >>   Skinners consoles, themselves, are works of art and should be preserved INTACT. The organ is not large enough and is not used in such a way that = it need a bazillion levels of memory and a bunch of solid state stuff inside. = If the console is RESTORED it will last for another sixty years or more. = The console IS part of the organ and not just simply a control box. The Skinner mechanism worked exceptionally well. The organ should be kept in =   original condition throughout.   Bruce . . . Cremona502@cs.com in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles . . . Duncan, Miles, and Molly visit CornelyCues & Howling Acres: Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 13:54:11 EST   Just curious...   what repertoire would organists like to play in pizza parlors? When I've =   been fortunate enough to find one, the fare was usually T&F in d-minor (DAH!), snippits of the Widor Toccata, and broadway showtunes. I'm not familiar with theatre repertoire, so..... what is there??   Bruce . . . Cremona502@cs.com in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles . . . Duncan, Miles, and Molly visit CornelyCues & Howling Acres: Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Fw: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:14:03 -0500   Bruce- You've pretty much got it in a nutshell. They play that darned T&F to death. Herr Bach would scream, "ENOUGH, already!". Widor they play like = a firehouse exercise, and when we had the Paramount here in Indy, "The = Little Mermaid" was bubbling out your ears.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cremona502@cs.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 1:54 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement     > Just curious... > > what repertoire would organists like to play in pizza parlors? When = I've > been fortunate enough to find one, the fare was usually T&F in d-minor > (DAH!), snippits of the Widor Toccata, and broadway showtunes. I'm not > familiar with theatre repertoire, so..... what is there?? > > Bruce . . . Cremona502@cs.com > in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles . . . > Duncan, Miles, and Molly > visit CornelyCues & Howling Acres: Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502 > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: PLEASE READ Re: Old Skinner to be replaced? From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 13:30:19 -0600   At 11/7/00 10:58 AM, John Vanderlee wrote:   >I believe I now have the whole picture on this. From what I gather the >favored proposal is to rebuild the Skinner console with a more modern >control system. In other words: It will look like it came from the = factory, >be fully functional and more. And the organ itself will be unaltered. The >current organist is in favor of this approach and he should be supported = in >this particular effort.     Dear Pipechatters,   As John states, this is indeed the correct scenario. ONLY the console of the Skinner Organ is being considered for modernization/updating. I have recieved further conclusive information to confirm this.   Unfortunately, such information was not forthcoming in the original postings yesterday, and there was ambiguity in the wording/meaning of = them, leading myself and others to imply that the entire organ was in peril. I repeat: the proposed work to this instrument involves the console *only*. I have also been informed that this particular console is indeed in great need of repair and/or updating -- as such, I agree with John that this = work should not be criticized.   One further note, I (and several others) are dismayed by some of the derogatory comments made in reference to the (unknown, to the List anyway) Organist. Please, in the future, may we all be more polite and respectful of ourselves and our colleagues (even if we might happen to disagree with them over some issue or another)?   Now, back to our regularly-scheduled Pipechatting...!   Tim Bovard Pipechat Co-Administrator <admin@pipechat.org> <tmbovard@arkansas.net>    
(back) Subject: Re: Olivera From: "Dan Miller" <dmiller@rodgers.rain.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 12:39:41 PDT   > Any new CD'S by Hector Olivera ? >   Check Hector's website: www.hectorolivera.com     Best regards, Dan Miller    
(back) Subject: Rumor Mills and Organ Building From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 16:22:53 EST   Dear Pipechat Members:   Appropriately, on election day, we see how rumors get started, = perpetuated, and exaggerated. Organists and "organ nuts" (as they proudly call themselves) so frequently jump at the chance to indict other organists and =   especially builders, that they seem to care little of the destructive aftermath of the things they say and do. The damage, as well as the legal =   quagmire, increases exponentially in the form of the printed word, = especially through the currently fashionable medium of the internet.   My own firm recently received a telephone call from somebody who said that =   they had heard from a THIRD party about a large project of ours in New = York City, and that they wanted to know "what the hell you guys were doing = there." Of course, the third party had seen the organ a half century ago, long before a series of damaging rebuilds had caused the client to call my firm =   for a seven-year consultancy which resulted in the current three-year = project to rebuild the organ. But their rage, third-hand, was already full-blown. = What a waste of energy.   Yes, it is true that many, many fine pipe organs are destroyed and = discarded. Often the smug and sanctimonious really DO believe, deep in their hearts, =   that their vintage 1928 Skinner requires the addition of a digital = Brustwerk. THAT is when they need to be educated, to understand that the instrument over which they TEMPORARILY preside is not their property, and that they = must think of the future, as well as the preservation of the past. The enemy = of the pipe organ is bad pipe organ building and stewardship.   Organ building and rebuilding requires many judgement calls, frequently tearing at the ethical standards of the builder and the client. Old does = not necessarily equal good, we all know that. But we live in an age in which there is so much information, and so much access to it, that ignorance concerning such decisions can almost always be seen as WILLFUL and = negligent ignorance. That being said, the gathering of facts BEFORE the lynching = usuall y saves reputations.   Sebastian Matthaus Gluck Tonal Director Gluck Orgelbau, Incorporated Pipe Organ Conservators, Architects, and Builders New York City  
(back) Subject: 7th Heaven Church & Organ From: "Jim Zimmerman" <jrzimmer@purdue.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 16:06:31 -0500   A couple weeks ago, Stephen Ohmer asked:   >Also - nearly every week the tv show 7th Heaven has a church scene. = Anyone >know the church? I see the pipes but hear electronics. A Rodgers = agumented >or something?   I have just learned that the church is First Christian Church (Disciples = of Christ) of North Hollywood at Studio City. The organ is a 19 rank Schantz =   designed by Ladd Thomas, now augmented with a Rodgers 940. The complete organ specification is on the church's webpage at http://www.fccnh.org/organ.htm   The church scenes on 7th Heaven appear to use different organs and consoles. Part of the exposed Great appears in some shots, yet I've seen = a Hammond B3 console as well as a couple other electronic consoles. I don't =   think I've ever seen the Rodgers 940 console. I think I've seen the innards of the same church used on Providence.   ************* Jim Zimmerman <jrzimmer@purdue.edu> ***************    
(back) Subject: Re: EM Skinner replacement From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 12:19:39 -0800   At 09:09 PM 11/7/2000 +0800, you wrote: >The other solution would be a horse shoe console which I >do not want.<snip>   Now comes the famous DeserTBoB analysis. WHY don't you want a "horseshoe console"? Because it's associated with the cinema organ, I'm sure! NO other reason. Here's a case where snobbery and "fashion" override ergonomics and common sense. I do agree that long, straight tab stoprails =   are not workable. Hope-Jones' design, which Wurlitzer perfects, is THE answer for accessibility and ergonomics. "Fashion" be damned. Does this mean you wouldn't play a "horseshoe" Cavaille-Coll?   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 14:05:53 -0800   At 01:54 PM 11/7/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I'm not >familiar with theatre repertoire, so..... what is there??<snip>   You need to get out more! LMAO!   dB    
(back) Subject: What we played! was Re: Fw: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement From: "Tom Hoehn" <thoehn@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 17:11:14 -0500   Rick and Brewse et al.   Only once in my tenure at JBurns in Tampa and once in Winter Haven did I = ever play the d-minor T&F by Johanne. The occassion was Halloween night and = Dr. Paul Bearer was the special guest for the evening. Since it was his theme = song, it got played when he was introduced. As far as the Widor goes, none of the = other organists at the place were capable of playing it (you remember Charlie = don't you Rick?). The standard repertoire from me was whatever the people in te = seats behind me wanted to hear. I set no program and each set was unique unto itself.   tom   VEAGUE wrote:   > Bruce- You've pretty much got it in a nutshell. They play that darned = T&F > to death. Herr Bach would scream, "ENOUGH, already!". Widor they play = like a > firehouse exercise, and when we had the Paramount here in Indy, "The = Little > Mermaid" was bubbling out your ears. > > Rick > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Cremona502@cs.com> > To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2000 1:54 PM > Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement > > > Just curious... > > > > what repertoire would organists like to play in pizza parlors? When = I've > > been fortunate enough to find one, the fare was usually T&F in d-minor > > (DAH!), snippits of the Widor Toccata, and broadway showtunes. I'm = not > > familiar with theatre repertoire,      
(back) Subject: Re: EM Skinner replacement From: "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 14:27:39 -0800   About the famous "DeserTBob analysis:" It should be borne in mind that Wurlitzer built numerous consoles with straight stop rails for residence = and church use. These were reasonably attractive and quite handy.   If someone wanted to replace an existing console and was content with stop-keys (and I agree with dB that they are easier to get along with than drawknobs) why not replicate the Kilgen "wing-type" console which was, except for an unfortunate tendency to be overly wide (certainly not necessary, especially today), quite handsome?   However, my vote is for the church in question to have the original EMS console rebuilt instead. It was up to handling the tonal resources when = new and, with careful restoration, should do just as well in the future. Original instruments, regardless of type, should be maintained as often as possible.   For my own evil purposes, I'd love to see a good EMS unified, fitted with = a nice large-scale stopped flute (mit tremolo) and unified. It'd make a wonderful theater organ....   Ray Thursby    
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: EM Skinner replacement From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 18:51:26 EST   In a message dated 11/7/00 1:59:29 PM EST, Cremona502@cs.com writes:   << ust curious... what repertoire would organists like to play in pizza parlors? When = I've been fortunate enough to find one, the fare was usually T&F in d-minor (DAH!), snippits of the Widor Toccata, and broadway showtunes. >> Speaking as a former (and relatively unkown ) Pizza Parlor Organist ( I = did a short stint at the Organ Grinder Restaurant in Toronto 20-some years ago = and also did maintenance work on the organ while there)... Basically, anything goes on theatre organs. from Show tunes to the latest = Pop tunes to the 'standards' from the 20's and 30's and the Big BAnd era. I played a few classical pieces like the Sinafonia from Bach's Cantata 29 = "Wir Danken DIr, Gott" and LOTS of the requisite 'happy birthday' requests, = kids tunes like the Sesame Street theme, Marches (Sousa's "Liberty Bell", Washington Post) Ragtime pieces (The Entertainer always a favorite). We (there were 3 staffers) played LOTS of requests.   SO....If you thing playing a church service on Sunday MOrning is alot of work...try playing a 4-hour shift of 50 minutes on, 10 minutes off - = three or four times a week. Pizza playing (if that's what I should call it) is both physically = demanding and one needs a HUGH repertoir of mostly memorized pieces.   Rick M  
(back) Subject: Rumor Mills and Organ Building-Hearty Amen From: "Ben Baldus" <bbaldus@voyager.net> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 19:04:08 -0500   Greetings on this Election Day:   Amen and amen. Stewardship and bad organ builders: another bullseye for = Mr Gluck. I would add cheap churches to the list, for without them there would be = far less demand for the work of untalented, inept or fraudulent organ builders.   Ben Baldus      
(back) Subject: Organ Questions/Replys From: "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org> Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 17:10:58 -0800   I have followed the responses to the poor fellow who asked our group of "knowledgable" people for advice about their church's organ, which = happened to be a Skinner. I emailed him privately to seek out the advice of = someone like Nelson Barden or another technician with a good reputation for = dealing with vintage instruments before doing anything.   I think we put ourselves in a very bad light when we respond to a genuine plea for help with pompous retorts.   My home church had a 1925 Skinner, 3/14, opus 515. The stoplist follows:   Great: 8' Diapason, 8' Gedeckt (sw), 8' Aeoline (sw), 4' Flute (sw), 8' Flugel Horn (sw), and Chimes.   Swell: 16' Bourdon, 8' Diapason, 8' Gedeckt (independent), 8' Salicional, = 8' Voix Celeste (61 pipes), 8' Aeoline, 4' Flute, 8' Flugel Horn, Tremolo. (There may have been a Vox Humana, but we could find no physical = evidence of one, the contracts dissapeared long ago.)   Choir: 8' Diapason, 8' Concert Flute, 4' Flute, 8' Clarinet, Tremolo.   Pedal: 16' Bourdon, 16' Echo Bourdon (sw), 8' Gedeckt (ext), 8' Still Gedeckt (sw), Chimes (gt).   By the time I knew it the console was gutted and refitted with Klann stop-keys, and it had grown to 27 ranks - only 2 of them anywhere near the quality of the original. We replaced it completely with a Reuter in 1982. I begged them to do something unique and use the original Skinner = pipework, which was in mint condition, as were the reservoirs, swell chambers, etc, but to no avail.   However, if I inherited this instrument NOW in original condition, I would want to rebuild it, possibly using vintage Skinner pipework from other sources, or upperwork in Skinner fashion. I certainly agree with updating consoles and relays - but in sone cases like opus 150 in Kansas City, MO, = I thought the strict restoration with no changes at all was nice. But look = at the above stoplist - It was a wonderful full foundational sound, but no variety at all. The 4' flutes were almost Dulcianas, so you had 2 = wonderful 8' wood Flutes, Strings, and the fabulous (really) color reeds. But just not enough!   There is an existing organ identical to this at the Methodist Church in Montevallo, Alabama (moved from Selma, Al, First Presby.) The swell had a Cornopean and Vox Humana, but otherwise borrowing, etc., was the same.   Randy Terry   Randy Terry