PipeChat Digest #1588 - Friday, September 1, 2000
 
RE: the Guild
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
RE: the Guild
  by "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org>
Organists' Union (was AGO vis a vis)
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Organists' Union (was AGO vis a vis)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Organists' Union (was AGO vis a vis)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Organists' Union (was AGO vis a vis)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: ST.Mary the Virgin Letter in TAO
  by "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com>
Re: Wedding rehearsals?
  by <LLWheels@aol.com>
Re: ST.Mary the Virgin Letter in TAO
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
RE: the Guild
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
 


(back) Subject: RE: the Guild From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:03:43   At 06:34 PM 8/31/2000 -0700, you wrote: >I've found that most WORKING organists DON'T belong to the Guild, for >whatever reason.<snip>   ....most consider the AGO a poor return on investment.   >in NO case did ANYONE respond to the letter OR send me a >membership application.<snip>   Most AGO chapters functions not as guilds, but rather socials clubs with fairly tight, cliquish membership requirements. I had a bellyfull of that years ago, and haven't been back since.   >I know the Guild TECHNICALLY >isn't responsible for the quality of their substitute organists, but >shouldn't they be?<snip>   In the true sense of the term "guild", then, yes, they would indeed be, much like the construction trade unions are generally responsible for the qualifications of their members in the hiring hall. Large AFM locals also functioned the same way, sending out musicians to various calls on a daily basis from the hiring hall.   >A.A.G.O. and F.A.G.O. are SUPPOSED to be recognized on the level of >degrees ... Bachelor's and Master's respectively. Are they?<snip>   Never heard of THAT correlation before, although I'm sure some would LIKE it to be thus! It simply means you've passed a series of exams that let you use the letters, that's all.   >A Guild pillar sitting directly in >front of me (knowing the connection) loudly proclaimed in a stage >whisper, "Too much Bach; why doesn't she play something = INTERESTING?"<snip>   VERRRRRRRY typical. Want snipers? Check out any local AGO chapter. = Ditto "wiring" favored fellow members into favored jobs, where the "unfavored" = go begging. To be fair, some chapters are totally different and more progressive towards issues of the workplace, but for the most part, it is = a dysfunctional organization. The ultra-right wing politics of many of its members mire it into pretty much what it is.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: RE: the Guild From: "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:53:57 -0700   I would like to defend the Guild. I have long kept membership to get TAO. And I have found what many say about the "in group" and no others welcome = to be true in some cases. But just like churches, each chapter is unique. When I moved to the Bay Area, I joined the Peninsula Chapter. I have been pleased to meet friendly, supportive, and accepting folks of all calibres.   As a new comer, I was surprised to be asked to serve on the Board of Directors. I am co-coordinating our major guest recital for the year, and = I am playing on the big October shin-dig in Stanford's Memorial Chapel. We have a major meaty program planned dealing with the many changes church music is going through, and we are having the organ crawls, picnics, etc., that are fun.   As a matter of fact, at least for me, I LOVE the chance to relax and socialize and talk shop with my colleagues. We have a large chapter and many members would not bother to come out, but those who do are great. Anyone reading this who is close enough and is interested in the AGO - log on to our web site (access through main AGO page) we have the potential to become a pretty fired up group   I agree that the AGO probably isn't much help where employement is concerend, and has LOTS of room for improvement. I'm happily involved = right now for the first time in 10 years. Like the choral groups I've sung in, etc., I will probably eventually burn out. But that doesn't mean all = Guild Chapters are useless.   Randy    
(back) Subject: Organists' Union (was AGO vis a vis) From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 23:37:45 -0400 (EDT)   Ken, you are quite right. However, there have been times in my career when I've thought, "I wish we had a union". Having thought it through more carefully, though, I decided it wasn't a good idea.   We really have the Very Best Employer anyone could ever ask for -- it's just that his middle management types sometimes pose difficulties (as I know we humble employee types are wont to do ourselves).   God does have a place in his heart for those who work for him. That gives me great comfort.   I can't believe I got that much allegory into this post. :)   Peace. Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: Organists' Union (was AGO vis a vis) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:52:14 -0700   Guys, I know you are sincere, and I'm not putting that down. BUT ...   Are you full-time church musicians, or do you have secular jobs as well? Are you married? Do your spouses work as well?   I'm full-time at the church, I'm single, and I'm TOTALLY at the mercy of the "at the Rector's pleasure" Canon.   I'm coming to the end of my career; I will have NO pension other than Social Security; I'll have NO medical benefits other than Medicare; I = don't own a home, so I'll have to move into subsidized senior housing, for which there's a five-year waiting list; I won't be able to pay the amount of = rent I'm paying now. My lifestyle now is borderline poverty; it will be BELOW borderline poverty when I retire or get too sick to play. Essentially, I will have NOTHING to show for the 50+ years I have given the Church.   Oh, when I was young and healthy, I was all starry-eyed and "it's for God, not the money", etc. etc. etc., but now reality is crashing down around = me. I don't think God intends his servants to starve or go without medical = care as a "reward" for serving Him. But tell that to the Church and the Guild.   Bud   Innkawgneeto@webtv.net wrote:   > Ken, you are quite right. However, there have been times in my career > when I've thought, "I wish we had a union". Having thought it through > more carefully, though, I decided it wasn't a good idea. > > We really have the Very Best Employer anyone could ever ask for -- it's > just that his middle management types sometimes pose difficulties (as I > know we humble employee types are wont to do ourselves). > > God does have a place in his heart for those who work for him. That > gives me great comfort. > > I can't believe I got that much allegory into this post. :) > > Peace. > Neil > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Organists' Union (was AGO vis a vis) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:26:21   At 08:52 PM 8/31/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Oh, when I was young and healthy, I was all starry-eyed and "it's for = God, >not the money", etc. etc. etc., but now reality is crashing down around me.<snip>   Thank you, Bud...well put. Now, you could plug this statement into any number of other non-union jobs and come up with the same identical scenario. People never put their faith and effort into collective action until it's too late, thinking by some (usually management-fed) notion that they'll somehow be taken care of based on their "merits". Having lived in both worlds, I'll take my union pension, free health care and dental care, and $25 co-pays for eyeglasses, thank you VERY much.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Organists' Union (was AGO vis a vis) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 21:35:54 -0700   Bob, when I was growing up in the Deep South, we were taught that unions = were SINFUL (grin).   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 08:52 PM 8/31/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >Oh, when I was young and healthy, I was all starry-eyed and "it's for = God, > >not the money", etc. etc. etc., but now reality is crashing down around > me.<snip> > > Thank you, Bud...well put. Now, you could plug this statement into any > number of other non-union jobs and come up with the same identical > scenario. People never put their faith and effort into collective = action > until it's too late, thinking by some (usually management-fed) notion = that > they'll somehow be taken care of based on their "merits". Having lived = in > both worlds, I'll take my union pension, free health care and dental = care, > and $25 co-pays for eyeglasses, thank you VERY much. > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: ST.Mary the Virgin Letter in TAO From: "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:38:16 -0700 (PDT)     --- Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> wrote: > At 06:37 PM 8/30/2000 EDT, you wrote: > >However, if we are going to behave like a blue > > >collar union I guess we can expect to be > treated in such a way.<snip> >   Once again, it seems that people need to be reminded: the AGO is an EDUCATIONAL organization which is "licensed" out of the state of NY. It is, of course, a professional organization, but it is NOT nor has it ever meant to be, nor inclined to be, A UNION.   This tirade which people seem to be on over the firing of the former organist at SMTV in NYC is of little or no consequence. The rector has total control over worship, whether it is stated that the organist serves "at the pleasure" of the rector is of no consequence, either. It would serve each organist well to understand fully the canons of any denomination in which he/she wishes to play, and abide by the rules of that denomination - not what colleagues think is better.   Stephen Ohmer - fired several times, at the pleasure of the rector and pastor!   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Wedding rehearsals? From: <LLWheels@aol.com> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 01:44:20 EDT   In a message dated 8/31/2000 9:17:32 PM Central Daylight Time, pipechat@pipechat.org writes:   <But what's the response to the argument: "OK, you've told us why YOU = don't need to attend the rehearsal, but where's your sense of ministry to the wedding party? What if THEY need you to attend?">   In 35 years I have never been at a wedding rehearsal where my presence = made a difference to anyone but me, least of all the wedding party. The idea of ministry to the wedding party my sound nice, and perhaps your new minister =   has something in mind for her own role, but, unless you're going to sing Evensong or lead Compline after the rehearsal, your presence is redundant. =     In any event, IF you decide that there is a role for you, or you feel that =   you should somehow lend support to the new minister, you should definitely =   get extra compensation for the rehearsal - I charge $75 for rehearsal and rarely have been asked to attend. When I was asked -- even at that price = -- I spent 57 minutes reading a novel and 3 minutes playing Purcell -- and = since we don't "march" at our church, even that was redundant.     Larry L. Wheelock Kenwood United Methodist Church Milwaukee, WI Austin Op. 1628 (1928) III/55  
(back) Subject: Re: ST.Mary the Virgin Letter in TAO From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:47:49   At 10:38 PM 8/31/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Stephen Ohmer - fired several times, at the >pleasure of the rector and pastor!<snip>   ....and your numerous sackings somehow make this "right", I suppose, and others should suffer the same consequence just because you have. Wellll, OK. I left churches a long time ago, so it ain't MY fight, that's for sure! LMAO   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: RE: the Guild From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 02:50:20 -0400 (EDT)   AAGO is comparable (but not quite equal) to a master's degree in organ. I'm proud of my AAGO. I worked hard for it, barely passed, but I passed.   I also have a masters degree in music. Neither one was easy.   Neil