PipeChat Digest #1600K - Monday, September 18, 2000
 
PCOrgan Instructions New Chapters Uploaded.
  by <MickBerg@aol.com>
Re: PCOrgan Instructions New Chapters Uploaded.
  by <MickBerg@aol.com>
Bach Magnificat Continuo
  by "Chris Johns" <Chris_Johns@gmx.de>
Moller Organs!
  by "Stu Ballinger" <wa2bss@vh.net>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by <ManderUSA@aol.com>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
"other-than-Moller" organs!
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: UPDATE - List and IRC Server
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Moller Organs!
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Organ Reform, and Companies like Moller, Casavant
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: PCOrgan Instructions New Chapters Uploaded. From: <MickBerg@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 11:57:47 EDT   Hello Folks. Chapters 4 and 5 of my PC Organ Project instructions are up on my homepage = as of Sunday Sept 17th am.   There are also two jpg files of Building Blocks screengrabs. The files are = in a Zip File called PCOrganZipFile2.zip. The URL of my home page is; <http://hometown.aol.com/mickberg/myhomepage/ptofile.html>.   I would be glad to know if anyone is having a go at this project.   Mick Berg.  
(back) Subject: Re: PCOrgan Instructions New Chapters Uploaded. From: <MickBerg@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 12:43:31 EDT   I can't believe I did it again!!! The URL is "profile", not "ptofile".   Apologies,   Mick Berg.  
(back) Subject: Bach Magnificat Continuo From: "Chris Johns" <Chris_Johns@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 18:16:17 +0200   Dear Friends,   I am playing continuo (organ) in the Bach Magnificat for the first time = next weekend, and was intrigued by the fact that in both the Barenreiter and Peters editions, there is no continuo realisation for the first eight bars of "Sicut locutus est" (No. 11), other than a doubling of the voice parts. As none of the continuo bass is figured, and it appears to be left to the player's musicianship to supply the right hand part, is there any good reason not to do the same for these bars? I would be interested in both scholarly and aesthetic arguments both ways (acknowledging, of course, = that the two are not mutually exclusive!). If interest merits, I'll post a compilation.   Thanks in advance   Chris Johns Musical Assistant, Osnabrueck Cathedral Frankenstrasse 5, D-49082 Osnabrueck Tel/Fax +49 (0)541 528 2568 EMail: Chris_Johns@gmx.de    
(back) Subject: Moller Organs! From: "Stu Ballinger" <wa2bss@vh.net> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 16:08:32 -0400   The Moller's ( 2 of them!) is the Philly Convention Hall ( West of 30th = St. Sta.) & the West Point Moller, & I consider Moller one of the better Organ = builder's, of the 1950's to the 1970's, & the Philly Conv. Hall Moller is on a CD w/ Tom Hazleton Playing @ a Conv., ( I think ATOS Conv.!), & really enjoyed the = sound! There is another Moller here in the Hudson Valley that is worth = mentioning: the Moller @ NY Military Acadamy ( Cornwall on Hudson,NY) 2 Organ Racitials (Hudson Valley) Sunday 1 Oct. Christ Church = Poughkeepsie,NY @ 3:30PM & the Organist is John Sullivan! More info (845)452-8220 Sunday 29 Oct. Vassar College Chapel;Poughkeepsie,NY; @ 3:30PM; & the = organist is Maralee Gallager; More info (845)437-2000 Also Check out: www.virgilfox.com Announcemet of Virgil Fox Memorial Rec- itial @ Riverside Church (NYC) = Later,.Stu Ballinger =   (1995 OHS E.P.B.Fellow!)  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:36:56   At 04:08 PM 9/17/2000 -0400, you wrote: >I consider Moller one of the better Organ builder's, >of >the 1950's to the 1970's<snip>   M=F6ller started a long decline, most people opine, after the death of Whitelegg in '44 (as I've been correctly told). By the mid-'60s, most M=F6llers were "assembly line" affairs, similar to the lesser output of Kilgen and others. Scaling was on the slender side, winding was "cheated= " on a regular basis, and the later M=F6llers have a tendency to "shriek" badly. M=F6ller has a very aggressive sales network in place around thes= e times, but their quality was simply not there. This, as with other builders, didn't show up in their larger, more presitgeous installations, such as the Cardinal Spellman organ at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Heart in Washington, DC. Still, the IH organ is known for a rather "unique" tonality, to say the least. I haven't heard a word about this organ in years, but assume it's still in its original, 1974-ish form.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 17:02:40 EDT   In a message dated 9/17/00 4:39:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << This, as with other builders, didn't show up in their larger, more presitgeous installations, such as the Cardinal Spellman organ at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Heart in Washington, DC. Still, the IH organ is known for a rather "unique" tonality, to say the least. I haven't heard a word about this organ in years, but assume it's still in its original, 1974-ish = form. >> It's the shrine of the "Immaculate Conception," not the "Immaculate = Heart," although I guess they are from the same family. I think some major work = has been done on the rear gallery organ recently, but I haven't been over = there in a while. I presume the positiv (or ruckpositiv) was moved to make way = for a big sculpture that was to be hung on that railing. I never found it to = be particularly attractive, but it certainly could be very loud. Even though there is a nice Schudi in the crypt church, the televised Mass often uses = a rather beat-up upright piano wheeled in. Sad commentary indeed!   DudelK Washington, DC  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: <JKVDP@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:15:01 EDT   Refering to the Moller at the National Shrine in Washington D.C.   In a message dated 00-09-17 17:04:16 EDT, DudelK@aol.com writes:   << but it certainly could be very loud. >>   I heard it once, actually played it briefly, and thought it was the = loudest organ I had ever heard. Then I heard the new organ at Bath Abbey in = England and I believe that one was even louder. Surely the British must have = changed if they appreciate such loudness!   Jerry in the other Washington  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 19:31:54 -0500   God must have loved Mollers....so many of his houses had them.   Jon    
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 21:32:11 -0500   At 9/17/00 07:31 PM, Jon wrote: >God must have loved Mollers....so many of his houses had them.   Ohhhhhhh...=20   I'd bet, Jon, that you could more accurately credit the M=F6ller "sales-force" for that one...<g>   Perhaps in just the same way that certain (unnamed) e-org "sales-forces" go at it these days...   <ducking for cover>   Tim    
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:36:17 -0400   there aren't any Mollers here in Montreal. I wonder why.........   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: <ManderUSA@aol.com> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:21:35 EDT   In a message dated 9/17/2000 10:38:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, concert_organist@hotmail.com writes:   << there aren't any Mollers here in Montreal. I wonder why......... Carlo >>   I think you will find there is very little of anything from the U.S. = anywhere in Canada, considering the 25% duty on American organs (and pianos), = which, thanks to NAFTA, is now being reduced gradually. I am not aware of a = single AEolian-Skinner instrument in Canada. Without the tariff, you can be sure during the A-Sk heyday, there would certainly have been at least a few. Through all those years, Canadian builders were not only protected in = their own land, but had free run of American markets. There are plenty of = Casavants and Kneys around the U.S. This is not a complaint - merely a statement of = the reality.   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:09:16 -0400       On Sun, 17 Sep 2000 22:36:17 -0400 "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> writes: > there aren't any Mollers here in Montreal. I wonder why......... > > Carlo > Because of Canada's protective tarriffs and requremtns for "Canadian Content"     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY  
(back) Subject: "other-than-Moller" organs! From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:30:46 -0400   Doug........could another reason for the absence of Moller (and many other companies) be due to the fact that the Casavant factory is in Canada? With all due respect to other companies, Casavant is considered to be one of = the world's best builders of organs. I figure this: why go elsewhere when we have Casavant? It's a known fact that 99% of pipe organs here in Montreal (in catholic churches anyway) are Casavants. Maybe they have/had a = contract. Who knows.......   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Re: UPDATE - List and IRC Server From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:36:02 EDT   Hi David and Tim:   We all appreciate the efforts the two of you have made, in getting things up and running again. I understand there were some tense moments. I'm glad Murphy's Law was able to be circumvented.   Cheers, for a good show!   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:21:57 EDT   In a message dated 9/17/2000 1:39:53 PM Pacific Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << desertbob@rglobal.net (Bob Scarborough) >> Hi Bob:   Washington DC is Immaculate Conception Basilica. The Durufle's made a recording there that was quite good. It's on LP. The organ is pretty much in original condition. It's not in the *Best* part of town so perhaps not many evening concerts. President Johnson's daughter was married there before he left office in 1969. This is one of the good Mollers.   Regards,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:49:14 EDT   In a message dated 9/17/2000 7:38:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time, concert_organist@hotmail.com writes:   << there aren't any Mollers here in Montreal. I wonder why......... Carlo >> Hi Carlo:   Well you have Casavant, and they are closer. Past and present rate of = exchange and tariffs probably contributed too. I hope they move back to the = building and tonal practices that made them famous on both sides of the border. The Father and the two brothers were geniuses.   Regards,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:59:39 -0400   very true Ron...........for some strange reason, their organs built now sound very different from the ones built long ago. They must have had a change in personnel, somewhere around 1960 or so........   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:24:01   At 08:15 PM 9/17/2000 EDT, you wrote: >I heard it once, actually played it briefly, and thought it was the loud= est=20 >organ I had ever heard. Then I heard the new organ at Bath Abbey in England=20 >and I believe that one was even louder.<snip>   You haven't heard the Glatter-G=F6tz or Rosales (or both) hair curlers ye= t, have ya? God LORD, those guys must be DEAF! I take ear protection to he= ar any of 'em.   DeserTBoB      
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:36:28   At 09:32 PM 9/17/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I'd bet, Jon, that you could more accurately credit the M=F6ller >"sales-force" for that one...<g> > >Perhaps in just the same way that certain (unnamed) e-org "sales-forces"= go >at it these days...   No lie there! I remember the California M=F6ller rep got wind that we we= re looking at =C6olian-Skinner back in '67 to replace the 1949 Allen, and he swooped down on us like a Jehovah's Witness at your door! This guy would talk to ANYONE that had ANYTHING to do with the organ, looking for the "key" to the sale. I've seen hard-sell car salesman, and this guy didn't have anything on them...I used to sell cars, I ought to know!   TONS of reasons why M=F6ller was BETTER than =C6-S..."they're going bankrupt"..."they're old fashioned"..."they haven't built a good organ since Harrison retired"..."their action is unreliable"..."remember what happened to Lincoln Center!"..."we offer more choice in voicing (!!!!)" (you mean..."bad and worse"??...and the NUMBER ONE reason you need to buy this here M=F6ller..."THEY"RE WORTH MORE TO TRADE IN!" That's the one an= d only time I EVER heard that one from a pipe organ salesman! The =C6-S pe= ople were quite amused by all this, but unnerved at the same time. as the contact from the factory to this little job became unprecedented.   During this time, I remember an Allen salesman from Gould Music in Pasade= na telling me. "Yeah, man...those M=F6ller guys are MURDER to compete with!= " Wow...now THAT told it all, right there! We were right in fending off M=F6llerMan...some contemporary smallish 3 manual installations in simila= r barns sounded absolutely AWFUL! There's one in town where I live now (1964, 3m/52r)...YEEEEEEEESH!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Organs! From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:37:16   At 10:36 PM 9/17/2000 -0400, you wrote: >there aren't any Mollers here in Montreal. I wonder why.........   ....because Casavant would run them off with a mobile guillotine.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Reform, and Companies like Moller, Casavant From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 03:56:02 EDT   Hi Carlo:   I believe Casavant lost their way during the retrograde, period of the late 50's and the organ reform movement, to the present. Most Companies did, Moller too. It cost a lot of companies their *HEART* reason for being. Momentum and vitality along with market position goes down with it. Fads come and fads go. Along with it, factories that built efficiently and economically began trying to be something they weren't, began casting about, building really strange Specs. they thought would appeal to the market.   On top of this unfortunate *UPHEAVAL* a challenge came from a quarter not before encountered, the Eorg. Pipe organs always had competition from Reed Organs, and Estey who built both was smart enough to do it. The challenge from this new quarter Eorgs, was not anticipated in time to gear up and challenge it, or join in. It went too fast, and builders deluded themselves into believing it was just an upstart cottage industry and = would go away eventually. It didn't, and Eorgs became digital. The challenge became devastatingly real, the momentum and efficiency was lost, and costs went sky high for pipe organs. Eorgs and digital prices although initially high, began to drop drastically as they achieved their own efficiency, and economical ballance with very high momentum.   Pipe organ builders can look back with longing at what they threw away Momentum, efficiency, and economical feasability, to try to recapture the past. The organ reform movement sowed the seeds of decline to a once proud industry, and destroyed or reduced to a shell most of the big factories. Aeolian/Skinner, Moller, Whirlitzer, Kilgen, = Hillgreen-Lane, Kimball, Gress-Miles, and many others gone! Estey, gone! It was sad to watch too. Big jobs poorly estimated, did in Murray Harris, ACCH, did in it's builder, and the market crash of 1929 did in a lot more. But = the biggest single factor was trying to be something they weren't. Living down the reputation of the past is never easy, as the pendulum swung too fast, and corrections made too hastily, without due reflection.   I'd welcome thoughtful comments,   Ron Severin