PipeChat Digest #1342 - Monday, April 10, 2000
 
Re: small pipe organ for sale
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Estey oboe
  by <CareyOrgan@aol.com>
Simon Gledhill iplays Rochester next Saturday (cross posted)
  by "Ken Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com>
Re: small pipe organ for sale
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Tuning myths, was small pipe organ
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Haskell/Estey labial Tuba Mirabilis??
  by "Andrew Lane" <alane@trinity.nsw.edu.au>
Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Invitation
  by "Mark Reeves" <mreeves@vzinet.com>
Re: Simon Gledhill plays Rochester next Saturday
  by "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com>
Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Conn 903 Organ Remote for Sale Very Cheap
  by <MickBerg@aol.com>
re: tuning myths
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ
  by "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk>
 


(back) Subject: Re: small pipe organ for sale From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 20:38:11 +0800   At least two of our Australian builders used reedless oboes which they = named Labial Oboe. I have played two in my state who had these stops. One by J. = E. Dodd and Son (a rebuild of a Clifton in 1910) had labial trebles except = for the 12 bass notes which were true reeds. A 1940 Gunstar (theGunn Brothers started with Dodd) had a Labial Oboe = which was not effective. There was already a Salicional on the same manual and the = L.Oboe merely sounded like a larger version of this. Just a medium string tone. = This pseudo reed was changed for swell trumpet during my 16 years as organist. = This transformed the whole organ.   The Labial Oboe in the Dodd rebuild was also exchanged for a trumpet but I = have not played this instrument since so I cannot comment on the effect. I was orgtanist there in the pre-trumpet days.   The thinking behind all this was to save tuning. IN this climate in summer reeds need to be tuned very frequently while the flue work stands fairly = well. Personaly I would rather climb in and tune the reed than accept the ersatz stop..   Bob Elms.   VEAGUE wrote:   > The Haskel- Estey connection: > > Mr. Haskel designed and built both reedless (reed) pipes and = pipe-in-a-pipe > basses- Haskel Basses. > > The reedless reeds were successful but very soft compared to their real > cousins. > > The basses were good in that they conserved ceiling height. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: Estey oboe From: <CareyOrgan@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 09:19:43 EDT   You should take a real good look at the Reedless Oboe. The beard is but = one component of the sound it produces. The body of the pipe between the foot =   and the upper tapered section is a reversed taper so the diameter at that point is greater that that at the mouth. And the languid, if you were to remove it would look like a collapsible camp-cup with a side section cut = off to form a flue..way down inside the foot. We have rebuilt such a rank = with new languids. It made a wonderful flute rank. Paul C. Carey Organ Co., Inc. Troy NY  
(back) Subject: Simon Gledhill iplays Rochester next Saturday (cross posted) From: "Ken Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:46:49 -0400   The Rochester Theater Organ Society is very proud to present the fabulous English theater organist Simon Gledhill in concert at 8 p.m. on next Saturday, April 15th. This will be his debut performance on our famed 4/22 = Wurlitzer.   The location is the Auditorium Center, 875 East Main Street, Rochester, NY 14605. Tickets at only $10 each will go on sale at the Center's box office one hour before the concert start. The over 2500 seat house assures you of = a good seat for this event.   Complete driving directions, Simon's biography, many pictures, the instrument's stoplist and much more can be found at the RTOS home on the = web at: http://theatreorgans.com/rochestr/ .   Groups of 10 or more are entitled to a discounted ticket price of $8 each. Please e-mail me for group admission details.   This concert is a real theater organ highlight event. You will missing a memorable experience if you don't attend. We hope to see you = here! If we can help you, don't hesitate to send us a message.   Regards, Ken Evans, RTOS President          
(back) Subject: Re: small pipe organ for sale From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 15:17:35 -0500   Reedless pipe stops were used in many rural churches where the tuner couldn't get to his rounds quick enough for servicing. This is only one of many reasons why reedless stops were used: flues would keep in tune better and longer than reed pipes.          
(back) Subject: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 14:08:13   At 03:17 PM 4/9/2000 -0500, you wrote: >This is only one of many reasons why reedless stops were used: flues = would >keep in tune better and longer than reed pipes.<snip>   Another organist's myth. It's a fact that, for seasonal tunings, it's the *flues*, especially the metal ones, that change pitch the most, not the reeds. Reeds go off pitch for other than seasonal temperature reasons, = but always get the blame when, on the first hot day the organ is played, = things get a little...tart. The flues are to blame, but the reeds take the abuse and get beat with the hammer...thus bringing the whole organ off pitch. Time-is-money-conscious organ tuners know this, and, since there are fewer reeds than flues, they beat the reeds into submission to follow the flues, when it should be the other way around.   Next time your organ gets the the seasonal queasies, check your 4' Octave a` (the usual rank where the "bearings get laid") with telephone company dial tone (which contains A=3D440 to a 2 X 10-12 accuracy, if you don't = have a fork, strobe or counter)...it'll be off a ways, most probably. Then, check your 8' Trompette or similar chorus reed with full resonator on the Swell. Closer, isn't it?   Quit beating up those poor reeds! The more they're left alone, the longer they'll stay put!   Modern telephone company (NOT PABX or PBX) dial tone is traceable to the former Bell System Reference Frequency Supply atomic clock located in Hillsborough, MO, and yields 440 Hz at the stated accuracy, although it is mixed with another tone. Don't use a cell phone or PCS...no accuracy there. Even a fair tuner will be able to pick it out just fine. Strobe tuners are less accurate, as the power grid is only held to 2 X 10-8...on = a good day...and are also subject to bearing friction losses and voltage sags. Forks are even less accurate, as they expand and contract with temperature changes. Unfortunately, most sanctuaries don't have phones!   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Haskell/Estey labial Tuba Mirabilis?? From: "Andrew Lane" <alane@trinity.nsw.edu.au> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:11:14 +1000   >TRACKELECT@cs.com wrote: >William E. Haskell established his own firm in Philadelphia in around >1901 after leaving his father's business. It was William who developed >the labial reed stops and Haskell basses. His firm was subsequently >bought out by Estey, which is how he came to be working as pipe organ >superintendent of that firm. Some of his labial stops such as the >labial Tuba Mirabilis were developed after Haskell went to work for >Estey.     Dear Lieters,   can someone describe or comment upon this labial Tuba? I've never heard of such a thing.   Cheers, Andrew Lane Sydney, Australia   Andrew Lane alane@trinity.nsw.edu.au      
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:24:07 +0800   Bob, I am well aware of that. I meant that flues tend to move together and = so stay pretty much in tune whereas the reed stays put and "appears" to be = out of tune. You can't tune all the flues to put them back in tune with the = reed, so we say "the reeds are out of tune". So they are, but they weren't the = pipes to change pitch to any degree. Tune the flues to the reeds? Be realistic Bob. I haven't got that long on = a Saturday evening. Takes me 10 minutes to tune the one and only reed, maybe less! The reeds out of tune was just a manner of speaking. No "myth" as far as I = am concerned.   And, BTW no 440 hz dial tone here. Just a raucous buzz!   Bob Elms.   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 03:17 PM 4/9/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >This is only one of many reasons why reedless stops were used: flues = would > >keep in tune better and longer than reed pipes.<snip> > > Another organist's myth. It's a fact that, for seasonal tunings, it's = the > *flues*, especially the metal ones, that change pitch the most, not the > reeds. Reeds go off pitch for other than seasonal temperature reasons, = but > always get the blame when, on the first hot day the organ is played, = things > get a little...tart. The flues are to blame, but the reeds take the = abuse > and get beat with the hammer...thus bringing the whole organ off pitch. > Time-is-money-conscious organ tuners know this, and, since there are = fewer > reeds than flues, they beat the reeds into submission to follow the = flues, > when it should be the other way around. > > Next time your organ gets the the seasonal queasies, check your 4' = Octave > a` (the usual rank where the "bearings get laid") with telephone company > dial tone (which contains A=3D440 to a 2 X 10-12 accuracy, if you don't = have > a fork, strobe or counter)...it'll be off a ways, most probably. Then, > check your 8' Trompette or similar chorus reed with full resonator on = the > Swell. Closer, isn't it? > > Quit beating up those poor reeds! The more they're left alone, the = longer > they'll stay put! > > Modern telephone company (NOT PABX or PBX) dial tone is traceable to the > former Bell System Reference Frequency Supply atomic clock located in > Hillsborough, MO, and yields 440 Hz at the stated accuracy, although it = is > mixed with another tone. Don't use a cell phone or PCS...no accuracy > there. Even a fair tuner will be able to pick it out just fine. Strobe > tuners are less accurate, as the power grid is only held to 2 X = 10-8...on a > good day...and are also subject to bearing friction losses and voltage > sags. Forks are even less accurate, as they expand and contract with > temperature changes. Unfortunately, most sanctuaries don't have phones! > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 18:28:27   At 08:24 AM 4/10/2000 +0800, you wrote: >Bob, I am well aware of that.<snip>   Oh, I knew you were! All flues tend to move together at same footage, so = a remote organ would highly benefit for labial reed imitators.   >Tune the flues to the reeds? Be realistic Bob. I haven't got that long on = a >Saturday evening. Takes me 10 minutes to tune the one and only reed, = maybe >less!<snip>   Well, if you wanna do thing *right*...<snarf snarf snarf> Actually, *everyone* does it this way...unless a guest artist has perfect pitch, wherein you're sort of up a creek without the proverbial paddle! Pianos are another issue if played with organ. Thank heavens THAT doesn't happen that often!   >And, BTW no 440 hz dial tone here. Just a raucous buzz!<snip>   Ah, Australia. Up here, I'd expect the phone companies to start charging for "perfect pitch" dial tone any day now!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Invitation From: "Mark Reeves" <mreeves@vzinet.com> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 22:12:33 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0061_01BFA270.B49D2E60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   You are cordially invited to join us as we celebrate the=3D20   25th Anniversary=3D20 of the=3D20 Redman Tracker PipeOrgan, Op. 10   First United Methodist Church 600 S. Buffalo - Canton, Texas April 16, 2000 6:00 o'clock in the Evening   The Trinity Valley Community College Cardinal Choir, under the direction of Dr. Byron McGilvray, will provide a special program of music. A reception will follow with music by TVCC's vocal jazz ensemble,=3D20 Encore 2000.     First United Methodist Church-Canton, Texas fumc@vzinet.com http://netministries.org/see/churches/ch02328 Mark Reeves, Dir. of Music/Organist FUMC - Canton, Texas     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0061_01BFA270.B49D2E60 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.3013.2600" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3D"Edwardian Script ITC" size=3D3D6>You = are =3D cordially=3D20 invited to join us as we celebrate the </FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT color=3D3D#c0c0c0 face=3D3D"Franklin Gothic = Heavy" =3D   size=3D3D7><STRONG><U>25th Anniversary </U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3D"Edwardian Script ITC" =3D size=3D3D6><STRONG>of the=3D20 </STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3D"Edwardian Script ITC" =3D size=3D3D6><STRONG>Redman=3D20 Tracker&nbsp; PipeOrgan, Op. 10</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3D"Bauhaus 93" size=3D3D5>First United = =3D Methodist=3D20 Church</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3D"Bauhaus 93" size=3D3D5>600 S. = Buffalo - =3D Canton,=3D20 Texas</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3D"Bauhaus 93" size=3D3D5>April 16, =3D 2000</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3D"Bauhaus 93" size=3D3D5>6:00 o'clock = in =3D the=3D20 Evening</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3DArioso size=3D3D4>The = <STRONG><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D5>T</FONT></STRONG>rinity <FONT =3D size=3D3D5><STRONG>V</STRONG></FONT>alley=3D20 <STRONG><FONT size=3D3D5>C</FONT></STRONG>ommunity <STRONG><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D5>C</FONT></STRONG>ollege <FONT size=3D3D5><STRONG>Cardinal=3D20 Choir</STRONG></FONT>,</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3DArioso size=3D3D4>under the direction = of =3D <STRONG>Dr.=3D20 Byron McGilvray</STRONG>,</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3DArioso size=3D3D4>will provide a = special =3D program of=3D20 music.</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3DArioso size=3D3D4>A reception will = follow =3D with music by=3D20 <STRONG>TVCC's </STRONG>vocal jazz ensemble, </FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter><FONT face=3D3DArioso size=3D3D4><STRONG>Encore=3D20 2000.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dcenter>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dleft>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dleft><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>First United Methodist = =3D Church-Canton,=3D20 Texas</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dleft><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:fumc@vzinet.com">fumc@vzinet.com</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV align=3D3Dleft><A=3D20 href=3D3D"http://netministries.org/see/churches/ch02328">http://netministri= =3D es.org/see/churches/ch02328</A></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Mark Reeves, Dir. of =3D Music/Organist<BR>FUMC -=3D20 Canton, Texas<BR></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0061_01BFA270.B49D2E60--    
(back) Subject: Re: Simon Gledhill plays Rochester next Saturday From: "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 20:26:24 PDT     >The Rochester Theater Organ Society is very proud to present the fabulous >English theater organist Simon Gledhill in concert at 8 p.m. on next >Saturday, >April 15th.   Having just gotten back from hearing Mr. Gledhill at the Plummer auditorium 3/27? in Fullerton (Orange County, CA) I can tell everyone that he is a true virtuoso and master of the art. WOW! $10 is a bargain!   DG   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:25:29 +0800   On the same topic we have a problem here in that the church is smallish = and is packed with seats. It now seats about 300 with about 30 of these in a rear gallery. which 60 years ago housed the organ and choir. The ceiling is = varnished pine and is about 35 feet above the floor.The organ and choir were moved = to the front of the church in 1941 and then, when this present organ was built, = moved to the side with choir seats parallel to the wall and facing across the sanctuary. The organ is on the rear wall behind the end of the choir.   There has long been a problem of the organ "going out of tune", when there = is a large congregation. At first I thought it was only the swell reed (the = only reed on the organ). Then I realized the problem was the whole great going sharp = while the whole of the swell stayed put. In hymn playing I could use the great = or the swell but to couple the two (this is a small organ!!) created a large = celeste. I put an indoor/outdoor thermometer on the organ , one sensor in the swell = box and one among the great pipes, and found there was a constant difference = of 1 degree celsius between the two, but, by the end of the service, the temp. = in the great had risen 3 degrees C while that in the swell remained pretty much stable.. After the church had been left empty for a few hours the organ tuning = returned to normal. Fortunately the climate of this city is not far from like being = in paradise. The maximum daily temperature varies between about 65 to 75 = degrees F all the year round, and thus the six organs in the city require little = attention and generally, except for reeds, only require some sort of tuning twice a = year. A complete tuning with setting of a scale only occurs very rarely.   We have occasionally used piano and organ together, but the piano has = always been tuned to the organ. Noone but an oboe player would know the = difference!!   Bob Elms. Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 08:24 AM 4/10/2000 +0800, you wrote: > >Bob, I am well aware of that.<snip> > > Oh, I knew you were! All flues tend to move together at same footage, = so a > remote organ would highly benefit for labial reed imitators. > > >Tune the flues to the reeds? Be realistic Bob. I haven't got that long = on a > >Saturday evening. Takes me 10 minutes to tune the one and only reed, = maybe > >less!<snip> > > Well, if you wanna do thing *right*...<snarf snarf snarf> Actually, > *everyone* does it this way...unless a guest artist has perfect pitch, > wherein you're sort of up a creek without the proverbial paddle! Pianos > are another issue if played with organ. Thank heavens THAT doesn't = happen > that often!    
(back) Subject: Conn 903 Organ Remote for Sale Very Cheap From: <MickBerg@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:34:23 EDT   I am making another attempt to sell my Conn 903 Remote box, which contains = 4 generator chassis (about 250 oscillators), 4 Relays, and a whole stack of Keying and Voicing cards. It is the electronics for the Conn 900 custom church organ. If I leave the eight channel amplifiers, and Alesis Microverb reverb unit = in it, I will want a bit of money for it. If I take out the amps and reverb (with its own little amplifiers), I will give it away. I would just hate = to see this thing go to the dump, although I don't want it for myself = anymore. Come on, someone save this thing!!!   Mick Berg.    
(back) Subject: re: tuning myths From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 23:56:03 -0500   I have been reading about the flue pipes going out of tune to the reeds, but how big a problem is wood pipes and metal pipes going out of tune to each other ? Luther    
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ From: "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 00:16:38 +0100     ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> Subject: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ     > > Another organist's myth. It's a fact that, for seasonal tunings, it's the > *flues*, especially the metal ones, that change pitch the most, not the > reeds. Reeds go off pitch for other than seasonal temperature reasons, but > always get the blame when, on the first hot day the organ is played, things > get a little...tart. The flues are to blame, but the reeds take the abuse > and get beat with the hammer SNIP > Next time your organ gets the the seasonal queasies, check your 4' Octave > a` (the usual rank where the "bearings get laid") with telephone company > dial tone (which contains A=3D440 to a 2 X 10-12 accuracy, SNIP   Bob, you're way too late with this, April Fools Day was over a week ago.   LOL nevertheless.   Chris Baker.