PipeChat Digest #1343 - Tuesday, April 11, 2000
 
Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: tuning myths
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
New organ in New Orleans
  by <DEMPAR1@aol.com>
Re: tuning myths
  by "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net>
TAO most notable organ events of 20th century
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
help!
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Haskell & Estey
  by "William T. Van Pelt III" <wvanpelt@erols.com>
Re: tuning myths
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 02:32:25   At 11:25 AM 4/10/2000 +0800, you wrote: >On the same topic we have a problem here in that the church is smallish and is >packed with seats.<schnipp> >There has long been a problem of the organ "going out of tune", when there is a >large congregation. <more schipp>Then I realized the problem was the whole great going sharp while >the whole of the swell stayed put.<more schnipp>. >I put an indoor/outdoor thermometer on the organ , one sensor in the swell box >and one among the great pipes, and found there was a constant difference of= 1 >degree celsius between the two, but, by the end of the service, the temp. in the >great had risen 3 degrees C while that in the swell remained pretty much >stable.. >After the church had been left empty for a few hours the organ tuning returned >to normal.<schippo al fine>   Common problem, really. Even when the whole of the organ is in the same big "chamber", an exposed Great and enclosed Swell can vary in temperature just by virtue of the swell box holding in more of the heat of the heated wind during extensive playing than does the unenclosed Great. Granted, this is more of a real problem for organs on high wind pressure with no aftercooling downstream from the blower.   Two ways to do this: Try to replicate the heating of the swell by using the church's heating system, or portable space heaters, and then tune at that temperature differential, or you can go to the expense, as I did once, to have an "counterflow" air handling system built by an air conditioning contractor. The cooler air near the floor could be drawn in through a grille, through an acoustic baffle to keep noise down, and thence be delivered around the Great organ, thus keeping it closer to actual tuning temperature conditions. CFM capacity and physical size of such a system wouldn't have to be much; 600 CFM would suffice, just enough to upset the effects of "hot church people" (an oxymoron to many) delivered to the Great by convection. The "transfer" system could just have a control switch on the console, and could be activated during services, or you could go completly bonkers and install differential thermostatic control. "Option 2A" would be to buy a box fan and aim it up from the floor up at the swell. This technical faux pas could be hidden with furniture or floral arrangements, for example.   99.5% of churches, tuners and organists will opt for the first option stated above. The only problem is that, during long hours of practice, one would have to get used to the nasty c=E9leste all the time EXCEPT during service time! A hidden advantage of Option #2 would be to hide the transfer blower switch and not tell visiting or competing organists about it. Thus, you'd always sound great (or swell), and they would sound bad!   /sound rimshots.wav   hehehe!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning myths, was small pipe organ From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:42:09 +0800   I did try an ordinary room fan blowing into the swell box but it seems to= me that, if that circulated the warmer air and warms the swell to the same tempera= ture as the great, the swell flues might sharpen putting them out of tune with th= e reed!! THe problem only occurs with a fairly full house and we don't get them to= o often. Christmas Day is the worst with summer temperatures outside and 300 peopl= e or more inside. The CatholicChurch where I play frequently for Saturday mass doesn't have= the same problem. They have a toaster!!   Bob E.   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 11:25 AM 4/10/2000 +0800, you wrote: > >On the same topic we have a problem here in that the church is smallis= h > and is > >packed with seats.<schnipp> > >There has long been a problem of the organ "going out of tune", when t= here > is a > >large congregation. <more schipp>Then I realized the problem was the > whole great going sharp while > >the whole of the swell stayed put.<more schnipp>. > >I put an indoor/outdoor thermometer on the organ , one sensor in the s= well > box > >and one among the great pipes, and found there was a constant differen= ce of 1 > >degree celsius between the two, but, by the end of the service, the te= mp. > in the > >great had risen 3 degrees C while that in the swell remained pretty mu= ch > >stable.. > >After the church had been left empty for a few hours the organ tuning > returned > >to normal.<schippo al fine> > > Common problem, really. Even when the whole of the organ is in the sam= e > big "chamber", an exposed Great and enclosed Swell can vary in temperat= ure > just by virtue of the swell box holding in more of the heat of the heat= ed > wind during extensive playing than does the unenclosed Great. Granted, > this is more of a real problem for organs on high wind pressure with no > aftercooling downstream from the blower. > > Two ways to do this: Try to replicate the heating of the swell by usin= g > the church's heating system, or portable space heaters, and then tune a= t > that temperature differential, or you can go to the expense, as I did o= nce, > to have an "counterflow" air handling system built by an air conditioni= ng > contractor. The cooler air near the floor could be drawn in through a > grille, through an acoustic baffle to keep noise down, and thence be > delivered around the Great organ, thus keeping it closer to actual tuni= ng > temperature conditions. CFM capacity and physical size of such a syste= m > wouldn't have to be much; 600 CFM would suffice, just enough to upset t= he > effects of "hot church people" (an oxymoron to many) delivered to the > Great by convection. The "transfer" system could just have a control > switch on the console, and could be activated during services, or you c= ould > go completly bonkers and install differential thermostatic control. > "Option 2A" would be to buy a box fan and aim it up from the floor up a= t > the swell. This technical faux pas could be hidden with furniture or > floral arrangements, for example. > > 99.5% of churches, tuners and organists will opt for the first option > stated above. The only problem is that, during long hours of practice,= one > would have to get used to the nasty c=E9leste all the time EXCEPT durin= g > service time! A hidden advantage of Option #2 would be to hide the > transfer blower switch and not tell visiting or competing organists abo= ut > it. Thus, you'd always sound great (or swell), and they would sound ba= d! > > /sound rimshots.wav > > hehehe! > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: tuning myths From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 19:48:33 +0800   Not much as far as I have experienced. The main problem is the movement of stoppers in changes in heat and humidity. The Hill gedacht on one organ here is a metal pipe rank, and occasionally a stopper drops a little. I have seen a photo of the same gedacht in the Sydney Town Hall organ which was built a few years after this one. Bob E.   Luther Melby wrote:   > I have been reading about the flue pipes going out of > tune to the reeds, but how big a problem is wood pipes > and metal pipes going out of tune to each other ? > Luther > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: New organ in New Orleans From: <DEMPAR1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:15:09 EDT   I had the pleasure of attending the dedication concert for a new 34 rank Southfield pipe organ in New Orleans on Sunday. The instrument is a ten = year project of the Lakeview Presbyterian Church in New Orleans and it = represents the first decision by a church in this area, in many years, to commission = a new pipe organ. In an age when most congregations are willing to settle = for a new Allen, it is refreshing to see and feel the excitement and pride that surrounded this unveiling. The instrument is scaled to perfectly fit the = room into which it plays. The stop selection is ideal. During the recital, Dr. = Jim Hammann did a wonderful job of putting it through the paces, faithfully handling everything from Bach to Vierne and finally even a Hammond B3 with =   the Leslie at full throttle. New Orleanians are very lucky to have this = organ in their community and anyone who has a chance to hear or play this instrument should consider doing so. The Lakeview congregation is to be commended for a brave decision that netted one of the best musical = resources in the community.  
(back) Subject: Re: tuning myths From: "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:01:09 -0400   Dear Luther et al.   The problem with pipe ranks changing pitch with temperature is not necessarily that the actual pipe material expands and contracts or lengthens and shortens with a change in temperature, but rather that the specific gravity of the air itself changes, therefore affecting "flues" much more than reeds. One would think, then, that this phenomenon would affect all flues in the same manner, regardless of their material.   Dave C. London, Ont.     Luther Melby wrote:   > I have been reading about the flue pipes going out of > tune to the reeds, but how big a problem is wood pipes > and metal pipes going out of tune to each other ? > Luther    
(back) Subject: TAO most notable organ events of 20th century From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:58:16 -0700 (PDT)   Did anyone read the April issue of TAO on page 60. Very informative, "38 most notable organ-related events of the 20th century." Much in the way of organ building activities. E. Power Biggs, Virgil Fox, Olivier Messiaen, Alexander Frey, Karel Paukert and Marcel Dupre listed as giving most notable organ concerts of the century. I've heard Biggs, Fox, Frey and Paukert live, and would agree that they definitely belong on this steller list. Have not heard Messiaen or Dupre, but wish I had.   Was shocked that Gillian Weir was not on the most noted organists list a few months ago in TAO!   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: help! From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:50:13 -0700   Anybody in So Cal (Orange County) available for the following?   Palm Sunday - 8 a.m. Maundy Thursday - 7 p.m. Holy Saturday - 7 p.m. Easter Day - 8 a.m.   If I can find a sub, the above will be reduced to hymns and the Merbecke Mass ... the Vigil will be SAID, except for the Mass. Gotta know your way around old-fashioned high-church Episcopalian services, though ... at least somewhat.   I've decided to try and play the High Mass on Palm Sunday and Easter Day, and the Good Friday liturgy, God willing and my legs work.   We pay pretty good ... probably put you up in a hotel too. Contact me ASAP.   Cheers,   Bud        
(back) Subject: Haskell & Estey From: "William T. Van Pelt III" <wvanpelt@erols.com> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:01:53 -0400   Dear John & List: In answering an inquiry from Alan B., John Speller wrote that the Haskell firm of Philadelphia was acquired by Estey. I'm not sure that is correct. I understand that the Philadelphia firm continued after William E. Haskell went to Estey ca. 1900 to establish their pipe organ department (Estey built no pipe organs before 1900). The Philadelphia firm, founded by Charles S. Haskell (the father of William E. and Charles E.) continued with Charles E. Haskell as head until 1927 and continued to be listed in city directories until 1946. Charles S. died c. 1903. The firm was bankrupt in 1921 and was acquired by William A. Loveland, who kept Charles E. running it. The Philadelphia firm was known variously as C. S. Haskell, Haskell Pipe Organ Manufacturing Co., Haskell Pipe Organ Co., etc.   In fact, this information and more is contained in "A Guide to North American Organbuilders" by David Fox, published by OHS in 1990 and now out-of-print.   It further says that C. S. (Charles Sylveski) Haskell was born in Massachusetts in February 1839. He was working in Chicago 1865-66 as a piano key maker and carpenter (where son William E. was born) but was back in the Boston area in 1867 working as an organbuilder (when son Charles E. was born in 1877), entering into a partnership with C. T. Harris in 1878 as Haskell & Harris of Boston for about one year. Then, he went to Philadelphia as a supervisor at the Roosevelt workshop there 1880-c.1888, founding his own firm in 1888.   Bill        
(back) Subject: Re: tuning myths From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 10:08:19 +0800   That is correct. Warm air is less dense than cold air and so the pipe = beats faster with a consequent rise in pitch. Wooden pipes tend to change temperature more slowly than metal and so the temperature of the air in = the pipe tends to change more slowly. The same phenomenon is displayed in a band of a mixture of brass and wood instruments. The flutes and brass rise in pitch quickly as the players = start playing their instruments while oboes and the other woodwinds rise in = pitch more slowly. When I was conducting school bands I had to retune the flutes after a few minutes of playing unless they warmed their instruments thoroughly before = we started. Being young players, of course, they could not be relied upon to = do this! Bob E.   "ldpatte@attglobal.net" wrote:   > Dear Luther et al. > > The problem with pipe ranks changing pitch with temperature is not > necessarily that the actual pipe material expands and contracts or > lengthens and shortens with a change in temperature, but rather that the > specific gravity of the air itself changes, therefore affecting "flues" > much more than reeds. One would think, then, that this phenomenon would > affect all flues in the same manner, regardless of their material. > > Dave C. > London, Ont. > > Luther Melby wrote: > > > I have been reading about the flue pipes going out of > > tune to the reeds, but how big a problem is wood pipes > > and metal pipes going out of tune to each other ? > > Luther > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/