PipeChat Digest #1353 - Wednesday, April 19, 2000
 
Benedictus qui venit
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Difficult pieces
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Biltmore
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Large Scale Kilgen Clarinet For Sale (x post)
  by "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com>
Re: Benedictus qui venit
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Hymn Search
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Re: question to everyone.......
  by "John  M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com>
Query re Virgil Fox book
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
Virgil Fox book
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Query re Virgil Fox book
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Query re Virgil Fox book  #2
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Hymn Search
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Difficult pieces
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Biltmore fa=E7ade
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 


(back) Subject: Benedictus qui venit From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:06:26 -0700   Evidently the Benedictus used to be sung at an odd place in the Episcopal = service (if it was sung at all), since The Chant and Service Book (1898) includes settings, but they aren't connected by key or composer to any of the = Sanctus settings. They're off in another section of the service music.   One of the many compromises made to get the 1940 past the evangelicals on = the Hymnal Committee was to put a footnote at the end of the Sanctus settings, indicating who published the complete Service (including the Benedictus, = which smacked of romanism and transubstantiation, according to the low-church = folks). The later supplements to the 1940 included the Benedictus for the 1st, = 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th Communion Services, but not the 3rd (Oldroyd).   That's also why you find such wonderful eucharistic hymns as "I Worship = Thee, Lord Jesus", "God Himself Is With Us", "Jesus, Gentlest Saviour" "Jesus, My = Lord, My God, My All" (words altered from the RC version) and "Glory Be To Jesus" = scattered through the Hymnal, rather than in the Communion section. The evangelicals = let Canon Douglas put them in, but they made the anglo-catholics HUNT for them = (grin). A strange book, the 1940. They did THAT, and then turned around and put = the MOST catholic hymn in the book, "Jesus, Son of Mary" under "Burial of the = Dead", RIGHT where it belongs. And they hid the Rosary verses to "Sing of Mary" in the = 1940 COMPANION, so, of course, the anglo-catholics could type them out for = their Lady-Day bulletins (grin).   I vaguely remember hearing the Benedictus sung at the point where the new = Prayer Book puts the Pascha nostrum ... at the breaking of the bread ... but I = can't tell you where or when, except that it was a LONG time ago. That WOULD have = been rubrically permissible, since the '28 BCP only says "Here may be sung an = hymn" without specifying the Agnus Dei or anything else.   I'm rather fond of the Gloria at the end. Having it at the beginning makes = such a big, indigestible "lump" to get through at the beginning of the service. = Of course, I'm in favor of dropping it, except on feast days, which the new = BCP allows.   Cheers,   Bud   ManderUSA@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 4/18/00 1:46:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > Quilisma@socal.rr.com writes: > > << If you'll recall, French churches in the 19th > century had a curious custom of replacing the liturgical Benedictus = (which in > those days was separated from the Sanctus and sung AFTER the = Elevations) > with a > solo or motet, usually "O Salutaris", or "Pie Jesu" at Requiems, which > accounts > for the absence of a Benedictus in the Faure Requiem. >> > > It's kind of you to think I might recall it, but I can't because I never = knew > that. I can't lay my hand on a 1940 - they are at church - but seem to = recall > something odd about Benedictus qui venit therein, or perhaps it was the = old > Canadian Anglican book which I used for so many years, also at church. = In any > case, I have before me a 1916 Episcopal Hymnal, called "The New Hymnal," > which I found in an antiquarian bookshop some time ago - marked down = from > $1.45 to $1.35, and there are no Benedicti in sight anywhere. Also in = this > book, as, I guess, in 1940, the Gloria in excelsis is at the very end, = which > is where we used to sing it every Sunday in cheerful seasons. > > Thanks for an interesting posting. > > Cheers, > > Malcolm Wechsler > www.mander-organs.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Difficult pieces From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:14:53 EDT   I think my favorite difficult pieces are the first and third Preludes and Fugues of Dupre's Three Preludes. Surprisingly, the four-part pedal = work in the G-minor is sort of a relief after the other stuff. The fugue is = even more relief and reward for learning the prelude and is quite fun.   I was surprised at how the difficulty of the Mulet Carillon-Sortie = subsided after the first couple of pages. The Carillon de Westminster by Vierne = is another that seemed to "come together" suddenly after some "directed" = work.   I've been working on the first of the Dupre "Three Preludes" since = college. Probably another favorite is the Durufle Suite, first movement, which is really a stunning piece.   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/bruco/STORIESINGLASS  
(back) Subject: Re: Biltmore From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:24:29 -0700   I think the Tracker also covered the Biltmore story awhile back. In the process, it told the fascinating story of the trials and tribulations of early electric action. Some of E.M. Skinner's early organs were still on = the Hutchings-style chests, which accounts for their failure long before some = of his later instruments. If I recall, that's what caused the failure of his organ in Trinity Cathedral, Cleveland.   E.M. residence organs had a pretty standard stoplist ... the ones at = Florida State University (one in Dr. Beard's studio, one in the auditorium [not = the vanished 4-manual in the school of music recital hall] ) ran something = like this:   CHAMBER I   8' Open Diapason 8' String 8' Celeste 8' Trumpet 8' Oboe (8' French Horn) (8' Vox Humana)   CHAMBER II   Chimney Flute unit at 16 - 8 - 4 - 2 2/3 - 2 - 1 3/5   The stops were duplexed to both manuals; the Chimney Flute was extended to 16' in the pedals; there was a harp and chimes in there somewhere, but I don't remember which chamber. I think the larger organ in the auditorium = also had timpani and bass drum, but I don't remember any other traps. The pedal = on both organs was very weak, since the 16' chimney flute was the only 16' = stop. In addition, the auditorium organ spoke through a tone chute from the chambers in the attic above the ceiling.   They had both been player organs at one time. The player mechanism in the auditorium was still intact and working, and included a separate player cabinet which would accommodate oversized rolls of operas and symphonies, = as well as the small one behind the music rack   Skinner didn't do that much work with residence and theatre organs ... Aeolian pretty much held sway with the residence organs ... and the = Skinners of this type that I played weren't as nicely voiced as the Aeolians, which had their own very nice species of romantic ensemble. The Skinners, on the other hand, seemed to be just a collection of ranks without much logic to them, and some pretty harsh voicing. Of course, the Skinners COULD have = been altered over the years.   Cheers,   Bud        
(back) Subject: Re: Large Scale Kilgen Clarinet For Sale (x post) From: "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 16:09:21 PDT     Can you post a sound sample on your web page?   DG   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Benedictus qui venit From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 19:30:28 -0500   quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > I vaguely remember hearing the Benedictus sung at the point where the = new Prayer > Book puts the Pascha nostrum ... at the breaking of the bread ... but I = can't tell > you where or when, except that it was a LONG time ago. That WOULD have = been > rubrically permissible, since the '28 BCP only says "Here may be sung an = hymn" > without specifying the Agnus Dei or anything else.   An article in "Choir and Organ" Magazine from a few months back had an = interesting analysis of the development of the Sanctus / Benedictus qui venit. The = author of the article (citation to follow in the event of sufficient interest) makes an = arguement that I find persuasive that the original form of these two movements was = the "Sanctus" by itself, with the "Benedictus qui venit" bracketed before and aft by the "Hosanna". I am not aware of any existing mss. which confirm this, but = it certainly makes sense to me, especially when one considers that many items in the = Mass were similarly bracketed by antiphons (cf. introit, gradual, psalm, etc).   > > > I'm rather fond of the Gloria at the end. Having it at the beginning = makes such a > big, indigestible "lump" to get through at the beginning of the service. = Of > course, I'm in favor of dropping it, except on feast days, which the new = BCP > allows. > > Cheers, > > Bud > > ManderUSA@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 4/18/00 1:46:47 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > > Quilisma@socal.rr.com writes: > > > > << If you'll recall, French churches in the 19th > > century had a curious custom of replacing the liturgical Benedictus = (which in > > those days was separated from the Sanctus and sung AFTER the = Elevations) > > with a > > solo or motet, usually "O Salutaris", or "Pie Jesu" at Requiems, = which > > accounts > > for the absence of a Benedictus in the Faure Requiem. >> > > > > It's kind of you to think I might recall it, but I can't because I = never knew > > that. I can't lay my hand on a 1940 - they are at church - but seem to = recall > > something odd about Benedictus qui venit therein, or perhaps it was = the old > > Canadian Anglican book which I used for so many years, also at church. = In any > > case, I have before me a 1916 Episcopal Hymnal, called "The New = Hymnal," > > which I found in an antiquarian bookshop some time ago - marked down = from > > $1.45 to $1.35, and there are no Benedicti in sight anywhere. Also in = this > > book, as, I guess, in 1940, the Gloria in excelsis is at the very end, = which > > is where we used to sing it every Sunday in cheerful seasons. > > > > Thanks for an interesting posting. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Malcolm Wechsler > > www.mander-organs.com > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Hymn Search From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:48:55 EDT   Greetings All,   First I must say that I'm sorry I haven't been chatting as of late but the =   work load has been ridiculous to say the least!!! I will be back and chatting AFTER Easter.   In the mean time..... I am in the middle of doing the programs for Holy Week and have decided to =   use the Hymn, "Come Christians, Join to Sing" TUNE - Spanish Chant 66 66 = D. However - my copy has only 3 verses, (Come Christians.../ Come lift your hearts... / Praise yet the Lord again...)   Does anyone have additional verses to this hymn ???   All the best.   The Maitre ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: question to everyone....... From: "John M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:59:28 -0000   Carlo asks about difficult pieces for organ - How about the Final from the Sixth Symphony of Vierne (whew!) and the Willan - Introduction, = Passacaglia, and Fugue.   John (whose Email is flowing once again after 2 days of losing about 150 messages)        
(back) Subject: Query re Virgil Fox book From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:21:04 -0500   The other day I ran into a guy who is a regular attendee of the concert series. He was performing his civic duty, i.e., he had been summoned for jury duty, and was just being excused from service. He told me that he = had heard there was a new book about Virgil Fox out. I have searched the OHS on-line catalogue, but haven't had time to check out Amazon or B&N.   Is anyone out there aware of a recently released book re Virgil, so that I can pass on the info to my friend?   Thanks in advance for helping the feeble-minded,   Glenda Sutton (who just today had a flash of epiphany, to her personal chagrin and self-flagellation, that she had been confusing in her mind "A river runs through it" by Norman F. MacLean with "Around the river and through the trees", or whatever the name of it is, by Ernest Hemingway)        
(back) Subject: Virgil Fox book From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:31:02 -0400   Glenda et al,   the only Virgil Fox book that can be considered "new", would be "At The Organ With Virgil Fox". It was published in 1994 by H. W. Gray.   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Re: Query re Virgil Fox book From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 20:35:13 -0500   >The other day I ran into a guy who is a regular attendee of the concert >series. He was performing his civic duty, i.e., he had been summoned for >jury duty, and was just being excused from service. He told me that he = had >heard there was a new book about Virgil Fox out. I have searched the OHS >on-line catalogue, but haven't had time to check out Amazon or B&N. > >Is anyone out there aware of a recently released book re Virgil, so that = I >can pass on the info to my friend?   Glenda   There has been a book on Virgil in the works for some time now. I think Ted Alan Worth was working on it prior to his passing and I know that a couple of other people have picked up on finishing it. As I understand it the book is supposed to be out in time for the 20th Anniversary of Virgil's death in October of this year.   I just checked the Virgil Fox Society Web Site and there is no mention of it there - (http://www.virgilfox.com) I would expect that they would be one of the first to announce it.   if you find out any info please let the rest of us know - I am sure there is going to be a rush for copies of it.   David    
(back) Subject: Re: Query re Virgil Fox book #2 From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:26:19 -0500   The following was posted on the PIPORG-L - I am taking the liberty of copying it here for those that might not see the postings on that list since it is from the Virgil Fox Society.   David   ****************************** No, there is not. Ted Alan Worth (now deceased) was writing a book which = is now being finished by Richard Torrence (vf's former manager) and Robert Hebble. We were hoping it would be available by Oct - the 20th anniversary of Virgil's death - but it looks like it will be a little longer.   We will be publishing chapters in our newsletter in the meantime.   Steve Frank The Virgil Fox Society www.virgilfox.com ********************************  
(back) Subject: Re: Hymn Search From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:48:30 -0700   (chuckle) ... that tune is Michigan's Alma Mater ... it's also "Saviour, = When In Dust To Thee, Low We Bow The Adoring Knee" in our hymnal. I could never = get used to singing it fast and loud with the Easter words. We always sang it = on the first Sunday in Lent.   Cheers,   Bud   Erik Johnson wrote:   > Greetings All, > > First I must say that I'm sorry I haven't been chatting as of late but = the > work load has been ridiculous to say the least!!! I will be back and > chatting AFTER Easter. > > In the mean time..... > I am in the middle of doing the programs for Holy Week and have decided = to > use the Hymn, "Come Christians, Join to Sing" TUNE - Spanish Chant 66 66 = D. > However - my copy has only 3 verses, (Come Christians.../ Come lift your > hearts... / Praise yet the Lord again...) > > Does anyone have additional verses to this hymn ??? > > All the best. > > The Maitre > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Difficult pieces From: <JKVDP@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:06:16 EDT   In a message dated 00-04-18 12:30:52 EDT, Jason writes   << As for the sight reading, Keep it up. I an also a pit pianist and a rehearsal accompanist. I can sight read the Broadway show scores better than any other trained pianist in the area >>   I'm curious and somewhat envious. Do you also improvise? I have often = found that many who do well at sight reading do not do well with improvisation. Likewise many who improvise well don't sight read well. The few who do = both are the masters. Jerry in Latte Land  
(back) Subject: Biltmore fa=E7ade From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:06:31   As coincidence has a habit of happening from time to time, I found a picture postcard of the Biltmore fa=E7ade on eBay, of all places!   http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&tc=3Dps&item=3D311656659   An interesting view into a home of the filthy rich....   DeserTBoB