PipeChat Digest #1361 - Monday, April 24, 2000
 
Re: Estey pipe toe
  by "Wendy S Coleman, MD" <wcoleman@facstaff.wisc.edu>
Re: Estey pipe toe
  by "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
Re: Liberation
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Attn. Theatre Organ People
  by "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com>
Re: organs in schools
  by "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com>
Re: Liberation
  by "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com>
Stories in Glass V--Easter Day
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: "Believe it, or Not!?"
  by "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com>
Re: Tivoli Theater, Washington, DC
  by "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net>
Re: organs in schools
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: cross-church audience building (was Detroit recital)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Design Improvements on the small theater organ
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Hearing Protection During Tuning - Cross Posted
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Ellsasser stuff
  by "Bill" <WGWUTILS@webtv.net>
Re: Design Improvements on the small theater organ
  by "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com>
Re: Estey pipe toe
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: Design Improvements (?!) on the small theater organ
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Used midi-equipped electronic organ.
  by "OJ" <owenj@bigpond.com>
Re: Liberation
  by <MickBerg@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Estey pipe toe From: "Wendy S Coleman, MD" <wcoleman@facstaff.wisc.edu> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:54:46 -0700   From a Haskell Melodia - Estey 2004 - Pat'D Aug 9, '98, Feb 19, '07 Wendy Coleman     At 05:48 PM 4/23/00 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Readers: > >Would someone who has a wooden pipe (of any sort) from an Estey organ >please copy from the toe of the pipe the patent information printed on >it, and especially any patent number if there is one printed there? >This is for a research project of the Organ Historical Society. > >I have seen many of these but I've never copied the information. Now, I >don't have such a pipe at hand. Thanks. > >Bill Van Pelt >Organ Historical Society > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >  
(back) Subject: Re: Estey pipe toe From: "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 07:52:36 -0500   Bill and list, From my Estey Dulciana opus 290 - 1905. pat. Aug. 9, 1898. Gary Black   ----- Original Message ----- From: William T. Van Pelt III <wvanpelt@erols.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2000 4:48 PM Subject: Estey pipe toe     > Dear Readers: > > Would someone who has a wooden pipe (of any sort) from an Estey organ > please copy from the toe of the pipe the patent information printed on > it, and especially any patent number if there is one printed there? > This is for a research project of the Organ Historical Society. > > I have seen many of these but I've never copied the information. Now, I > don't have such a pipe at hand. Thanks. > > Bill Van Pelt > Organ Historical Society > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Liberation From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 22:57:32 EDT   In a message dated 4/23/00 2:53:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << However, if your goal is to just have another bunch of other organists sitting around critiquing and no one else, by all means, go right ahead! >>   Yeah, right! Organists going to organ recitals. teeheeeeeeeeeeeeeee   Then the appropriate venue in which to place organ is a coffee shop, = seating maybe FOUR!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Attn. Theatre Organ People From: "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:18:37 -0400   Notwithstanding being solidly in the church camp as an organist, I have a question:   Here in the Nation's Capital, in a decrepit but recovering part of town known as Columbia Heights, there is an ongoing fight about the fate of a long-closed theater called The Tivoli. A neighborhood paper, _The Intowner_, recently had an article on this subject (latest installment: the preservation people talked the development people out of turning it into a supermarket), accompanied by pictures of some of the grande baroque decorations within the auditorium.   Does anyone know whether there was an organ in The tivoli and if it is still there?   Evie     Evie  
(back) Subject: Re: organs in schools From: "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 22:20:00 CDT       >the late '20s to put a WurliTzer in their auditorium. Hollywood High >School has an E.M. Skinner, although trashed by the '94 Northridge quake. >Hammonds started popping up at schools in the '30s, propelled by = hard-sell >tactics of local Hammond Organ Studios franchisees, and continued = somewhat >after the War (the big one). Organs never showed up again much after the >1950s. >     Gee, let's think about this one. As teachers are notoriously underpaid, = I'd rather spend the money on their salaries than on an organ. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Liberation From: "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:31:01 -0400   At 04:05 PM 4/22/00 -0400, Bruce wrote: > >Well, if the organ has a good "cannon fire" stop, or police sirenes, a = couple >of measures might bring things under control. ;-)   That reminds me: This morning at Church of the Epiphany, Washington, DC, we did the hymn, "Look there! The Christ, our brother, comes" as a choir motet during communion. Eric had the percussionist who had been playing with the brass bring a train whistle, which he used at appropriate moments during the chorus.   Evie      
(back) Subject: Stories in Glass V--Easter Day From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:31:44 EDT   Today I played Stories in Glass V to a modest, yet respectable (for Easter =   Day) crowdlet. The program follows:   (note: the beginning registrations are printed for each piece. The = stops are in Dutch (the stoplist is also printed with the programs at the = recital) and the manual indications in the program refer to Hoofdwerk, Rugwerk, Zwelwerk and Pedaal.   HOLY TRINITY EPISCOPAL CHURCH -- Gainesville FL ++The Third Window in the North Wall ++Appearance of the Risen Lord to Mary Magdalene ~~The First Window in the South Wall ~~The Angel at the Empty Tomb : Prelude and Fugue in C . . . Dietrich Buxtehude (1637-1707) --R: Praestant 8, Octaaf 4, Nazard 2-2/3, Superoctaaf 2, Kleinmixtuur = III --H: Roerfluit 8, Kwint 2-2/3, Woudfluit 2 --Z: Holpijp 8, Octaaf 2 --P: Praestant 16, Octaaf 8, Trompet 8 + RH   Christ lag in Todesbanden . . . Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) --H: Bourdon 16, Praestant 8, Octaaf 4, Kwint 2-2/3, Woudfluit 2, Mixtuur = IV (+ Sesquialter II) --P: Praestant 16, Octaaf 8, Koraalbas 4, Mixtur IV, Bazuin 16   O Sons and Daughters, Let Us Sing! . . . Jean Francois Dandrieu (1682-1738) O Filii et Filiae (Hymn 203) --I. Rondeau H: Bourdon 16, Praestant 8, Octaaf 4, Kwint 2-2/3, Woudfluit 2, Sesquialter II, Mixtuur IV --II. Double H: Bourdon 16, Praestant 8, Octaaf 4, Kwint 2-2/3, Sesquialter II --III. Double R: Gedekt 8, Spitzfluit 8, Nazard 2-2/3 --IV. Trio H: Bourdon 16, Nachthoorn 4, Kwint 2-2/3 --V. Trio R: Octaaf 4, Krommhoorn 8; Z: Fagot 16, = Trompette --VI. En Taille (melody in tenor) R: Praestant 8, Octaaf 4, Nazard = 2-2/3, Superoctaaf 2, Terz 1-3/5; H: Praestant 8, Nachthoorn 4; P: + H --VII. En Duo H: Bourdon 16, Roerfluit 8, Nachthoorn 4, Sesquialter II =   --VIII.En Duo H: Roerfluit 8, Woudfluit 2 --IX. En Basse de Trompette (Trompette in bass) R: Gedekt 8, Spitzfluit = 4; Z: Trompette 8, Praestant 4 --X. En Musette Z: Fagot 16 (played an octave higher); P: + Z --XI. En Grand Jeu H: Bourdon 16, Praestant 4, Kwint 2-2/3, Woudfluit 2, =   Sesquialter II, Mixtuur V, Trompet 8; P: Subbas 32, Bazuin 16 + H --XIII. En Grand Jeu Z: Gemshoorn 8, Praestant 4, Octaaf 2, Scherp V, Fagot 16, Trompette 8 --Final refrain as in XI: H + Z, R; R: Kleinmixtuur III, Krummhoorn; = P: + H, Z   Prelude and Fugue in G-major . . . Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) --R: Praestant 8, Octaaf 4, Nazard 2-2/3, Superoctaaf 2 --H: Roerfluit 8, Octaaf 4, Kwint 2-2/3 --Z: Holpijp 8, Octaaf 2 --P: Praestant 16, Octaaf 8 + RH   Carillon de Westminster (Suite No. 3, Opus 54) . . . Louis Vierne (1870-1937) --H: Bourdon 16, Praestant, Octaaf 4, Kwint 2-2/3, Woudfluit 2 --R: Praestant 8, Spitzfluit 4 --Z: Gemshorn, Holpijp 8, Praestant 4 --P: Praestant 16, Octaaf + RZ   Bells (Three Characteristic Pieces) . . . Jean Langlais (1907-1991) --R: Gedekt 8, Nazard 2-2/3 (+ Superoctaaf 2; Kleinmixtuur III) --H: Praestant 8 (+ Sesquialter II; Praestant 4, Woudfluit 2; + R) --Z: Holpijp 8, Koppelfluit 4 --P: Praestant 16, Gedekt 8 + Z   Fanfare . . . John Cook (1918-1984) --H: Praestant 8, Octaaf 4, Trompet 8 --R: Praestant 8, Octaaf 4, Nazard 2-2/3, Superoctaaf 2 + Z --Z: Gemshoon 8, Praestant 4, Octaaf 2, Scherp V, Fagot 16, Trompet 8 --P: Subbas 32, Praestant 16, Octaaf 8, Koraalbas 4 + RZ   ~~~   This was a wonderful learning experience for me. The custom has been at these recitals to hold applause until after the last piece. I tried to read the faces of the people each time I got up to share comments about = the music and registrations I was using. My take was that they were enjoying =   the program. However, after Carillon de Westminster they went nuts applauding. (Later I learned from someone in the audience that one man = had either never heard the piece or it was his favorite, but he really liked it.) Evidently the ice was broken, and they applauded after the Bells =   (Langlais). After Fanfare for Organ (Cook) I thought they weren't going to stop their applause (this has never happened to me before!). As a thank-you, I asked if anyone had a favorite hymn they'd like to hear as an =   improvisation, and "Easter Hymn" was requested. Once again, after the improvisation, they were most generous with their applause. (perhaps = they were "applause-deprived" from Lenten observance!)   From this I've learned that Carillon de Westminster, Bells and Fanfare for =   Organ are definitely keepers for my repertoire. I did talk with most of = the people afterward and the "vote" really tilted toward these three. I was disappointed that comments did not favor the D'Andrieu more, but I must confess that, as music, I don't find it all that great, but it sure is fun = to find things to do with registration.   I hope this doesn't sound to "puffy", but I'm really a happy camper = tonight!~       Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: "Believe it, or Not!?" From: "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 22:36:22 CDT   >Frank Zappa also composed and recorded an opera. He was quite an >interesting fellow; grew up in the desert here not far from where I'm >stuck...er, live...now. He HATED the musical "intelligentia", even more >than I do. The Glass piece was an obvious rib at such. He also liked to >lift hunks of Sch=F6enberg to use in his albums to show twelve tone's = utter >ridiculousness. Another great sendup of it was during the Hoffnung >festivals in London, where Sch=F6enberg was disguised as one "Bruno Heinz =   >Jaja". > >"Moozeek is obsolete...graph paper is essential now!" "...and every good >young German composer is willing to schtick his schpanner in da verks!" > >The Hoffnung festivals, I believe, are still available from EMI's = catalog. >The "Grand, Grand Overture" features a full symphony orchestra, the = Albert >Hall organ, two Hoovers, and an electric floor polisher. > >DeserTBoB     Topicality, please. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Tivoli Theater, Washington, DC From: "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 20:39:55 -0700   Evelyn,   Assuming there was only one Tivoli Theater in DC, a three-manual, = ten-rank Wurlitzer was installed therein in 1924. It was removed in the '50s or = '60s and incorporated into a larger installation in a private residence....   Ray Thursby    
(back) Subject: Re: organs in schools From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 00:11:29 EDT   In a message dated 4/23/00 2:01:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dougcampbell@juno.com writes:   << Get a grip, will you please ???? In our church the choice is a pipe organ ina a chamber OR an electronic ! >>   I understand your point, Doug, but what I' m reacting to is the seeming tendency or inclination to relegate organ pipes to attics, basements, chambers. Some chambers are well-designed and don't hinder much. = Others, such as those which EM Skinner used actually help the organ. I've heard = some de-chambered Skinners that really were not benefited.   I did decide, however, to take your advice and "get a grip".... but it = was on a wineglass, and I'm feeling muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch better now!! = ;-)   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: cross-church audience building (was Detroit recital) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 00:28:05 EDT   In a message dated 4/23/00 3:03:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tmbovard@arkansas.net writes: Whoah! all I said was: "So many people only go to organ recitals at "their" church." Tim Bovard responded to it: " although there is probably a *very small* segment of folks that won't darken the door of any church but their own, I don't think that they're nearly as sizeable in numbers as Bruce seems to think." I did not indicate a vast number, I said many (not how many), and I would =   that, more often than not, that (generally) people are more likely to go = to an organ recital at their own church (probably to support the activity).   But then you offered a completely dissimilar example of people who did go = to another church. The recitalist was Baptist and his mother evidently is = a mover and shaker in that church and brought all of her friends. You said =   yourself, that the recitalist knew most of the people present. That's = just a bit far off from what I said. I'm not finding fault with the example, except that it does not relate to my statement.   I know of a fair number of people who attend my recitals ONLY when I play = at their church. I don't know why and haven't asked them, but I do know it = is a fact. Some churches I've played several recitals there and these folks = are always present, but only on their home turf!   << Yes, Bruce, that is definitely a problem for us all. However, I do =   not at all think it is such a problem that we cannot overcome it. I've = tried to present a few alternatives -- can anyone offer more?? Geez! You make me sound like a doomsayer. I'm a recitalist and work = hard to increase my audience. I have never indicated that attendance problems cannot be overcome.     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Design Improvements on the small theater organ From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 00:51:05 EDT   In a message dated 4/23/00 7:36:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dave_hat@hotmail.com writes: >Tibia 16 (tc) 8 4 2-2/3 2 1-3/5 1 >Viole de orchestre 16 (tc) 8 4 2-2/3 2 >Oboe & Clarinet -- Oboe 16 (tc) 8 and Clarinet 8 from mid-c + This design is not that far off from my 'final answer' but has those =   mutation stops. I think there are too many restrictions being placed upon the organ you propose. Being a purist, I think to be true to the form one needs to = "follow the rules". "The rules" in theatre organs include not only unification, = but unified mutations as well, neither of which I would propose anywhere else.   Also, in considering someone else's response, I think I would consider = opting for the Vox Humana stop as well. It is peculiarly (no pun intended) = unique to the theater genre.   >since there can be a compound stop... >Tibia >Vox de strings IX + What's that???? Um...... that is a joke! (well, was supposed to be!) you said the organ =   "could only have three stops, but a stop could be 'compound.' " Well, NINE ranks of strings is definitely compound!, bringing the total ranks = to eleven! (oh, well... sigh!) >Kinuras au d'bazoooo + What's that???? (whimper!!) Yet another attempt at humour!     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Hearing Protection During Tuning - Cross Posted From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:12:39 EDT   Dave:   When I worked in DC with a service list of 60+ organs you better believe = that I used hearing protection! I carried 'Sonic Two' plugs - made of silicone = and aluminum - they do not block everything and foam plugs for the really loud =   stuff. Tune mixtures and bombards all day with out protection and you get shell shock. What? Somebody answer the phone.   Alan B.  
(back) Subject: Re: Ellsasser stuff From: "Bill" <WGWUTILS@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 01:19:48 -0400 (EDT)   Bob: Back in the late 50's I went to my one and only Ellsasser recital (Old Dutch Reform Church in Kingston, NY). Odd sort of recital as the console was in the choir loft at the back of the church and completely hidden from view - twas a listening only concert :-)   One of the pieces he played was a pedal only rendition of either "The Minute Waltz" or "Flight of the Bumblebee" - can't right now remember which but this will give you an idea of his style of concert rendition. As I do remember, he afterwards at the reception had copies of that pedal piece for sale (as if any of us there at that time would have been able to play such - Ha!); but, I don't remember if there were any other scores for sale... Twas a loooong time back. Bill in Florida an' getten old.    
(back) Subject: Re: Design Improvements on the small theater organ From: "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 22:47:18 PDT     >I think there are too many restrictions being placed upon the organ you >propose.   That is true, there are a lot of restrictions because it has to be cheap and fit in a _small_ space yet play a wide range of music.   >"The rules" in theatre organs include not only unification, but >unified mutations as well, neither of which I would propose anywhere = else.   Those "rules" were probably made in the interest of lower manufacturing costs! If you're selling a huge organ to the Chickenfoot Theater owner = who wouldn't know the 5th harmonic if he stepped on one maybe that's OK. But correctly tuned mutations are what is muscially valid. "Rules" imposed by =   human tonal perception are more valid than "rules" imposed by long-defunct =   organ company marketing departments.   ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Estey pipe toe From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 00:51:12 -0500   At 4/23/00 05:48 PM, you wrote: >Dear Readers: > >Would someone who has a wooden pipe (of any sort) from an Estey organ >please copy from the toe of the pipe the patent information printed on >it, and especially any patent number if there is one printed there? >This is for a research project of the Organ Historical Society.   Greetings, Bill!   We have some old Estey pipes laying around at the shop -- I'll look to = find one with a patent # in the morning when I get there. (the one of them I have here at home doesn't have anything printed on the toe)   Until tomorrow --   Tim    
(back) Subject: Re: Design Improvements (?!) on the small theater organ From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 23:19:04   At 10:47 PM 4/23/2000 PDT, you wrote: >Those "rules" were probably made in the interest of lower manufacturing >costs!<snip> "Rules" imposed by >human tonal perception are more valid than "rules" imposed by = long-defunct >organ company marketing departments.<snip>   OK, now I gotta jump in here and straighten this out.   The use of equal-tempered "mutated mutations" was part and parcel of Hope-Jones' unification scheme, his thinking being that the pitches were "close enough". Well, they're off enough, and there's a noticeable "edge" missing...much like the peculiar sound that the Hammond has, or any other instrument with such unified pitch registers. However, what happened was that this peculiar tonal flaw became part and parcel of the theater organ sound...use real mutations, lose the sound. It's that simple.   Try some of GW's (or others') pungent, mutation-laden solo registrations = on a "straight" organ with real mutations...ain't gonna work. I fooled = around with various registrations and played the appropriate music on straight organs, just to hear what the effect would be. It doesn't work. The "mutated mutations" make up part of the tonal package of the "unit orchestra", as does the almost harmonic-free Tibia Clausa, the = off-the-wall Kinura noisemaker, the blatty Post Horn, and the thundering Diaphones. = You start taking away elements of the instrument's tonal signature, it loses its identity and flavor, and thus, its usefulness.   Just what are you trying to build here?? So far, it sounds like a 4 = manual box of wiener whistles! A theater organ...with no trems....no pedals...four ranks...and real mutations. Oy vey...some peoples' kids.... Could I interest you in a hydraulus?   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Used midi-equipped electronic organ. From: "OJ" <owenj@bigpond.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 18:04:31 +1000   I used a couple of Syndyne midi i/f units on an old Conn 650, with amazing results, they have given life to an old organ what would might have become = land fill.   Owen   PipeLuvr@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 4/23/00 8:22:12 AM Central Daylight Time, > lon.hdrogemuller@wwdc.com writes: > > > Can someone suggest a good candidate for a used midi equipped = electronic > > instrument suitable for "gutting" with the present tone generation > system > > to be replaced by a state of the art digitally sampled system. > > Artisan has released their "ranks in a box" system which sounds pretty = good, > at least on the CD. Check out: > > http://www.artisan-instruments.com/index.htm > > Good luck with your project! > > Bob > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Liberation From: <MickBerg@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 04:49:06 EDT   Please ignore the strange message from me under the subject "Liberation". = It was a private message to a private individual that I somehow sent to the = list. My apologies,   Mick Berg.