PipeChat Digest #1249 - Wednesday, February 2, 2000
 
Re: discarded pipe organs
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: organ re-build
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: discarded pipe organs
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Useless Aeoline?
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
Re: Useless Aeoline?
  by <KurtvonS@aol.com>
Re: discarded pipe organs
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: organ re-build
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Useless Aeoline?
  by "Tom Jones" <tomj@netpath.net>
Re: Useless Aeoline?
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Useless Aeoline?
  by "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Re: Useless Aeoline?
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@falcon.cc.ukans.edu>
Re: organ re-build
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Useless Aeoline?
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: organ re-build
  by <Posthorn8@aol.com>
Pilcher  re-build
  by "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com>
Re: The organ in the Cathedral of St. Loius de Versailles
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
St. Olaf Choir in Princeton NJ ???????
  by "Mr. Jan S. VanDerStad" <dcob@nac.net>
Re: Useless Aeoline?
  by "Tom Jones" <tomj@netpath.net>
Re: Useless Aeoline?
  by "Adrianne Schutt" <maybe@pipcom.com>
Fw: Useless Aeoline?
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
 



(back) Subject: Re: discarded pipe organs From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:54:41 -0500 (EST)   What is it with the "fly-by-nighters." I just stopped into a church with a 1908 Moller tracker that I worked on about ten years ago, got it playing and they enjoyed it for about a month until the organist needed louder and pistons. There is now an Alien on the floor! The local pirate has convinced them that he can make the organ do whatever they want if he rebuilds it. it is now being destroyed! Sigh. And the worst part is that there are at least ten churches in town who have been really ripped off by this guy and who have found him out, but won't prosecute or "sully his good name". Shame on them!   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida   http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/rohrschok8/OrganMusicLibrary    
(back) Subject: Re: organ re-build From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:01:36 -0500 (EST)     Great: Open Diapason 8' Melodia 8' Dulciana 8' Swell: Stopped diapason 8' Aeoline 8' (a waste as far a I am concerned), Viola 8' Harmonic flute 4' =A0 Pedal: Bourdon 16' =A0 a full compliment of couplers and a provision for a reed on the swell in the future.   Gee. A nice little organ. Aeolines are unique whisper stops. Give it a while, use it for special effects and you may come to enjoy it. Of course, there are always stops you might rather have (I feel this way about celestes), but since there are always more wanted, I think it's best to leave the Aeoline in place. Another possibility is to remove the pipes and store them carefully, and have another rank(s) made to fit in the holes without modification or with another rack made to fit. Just try not to alter or destroy. The reed addition would be very helpful; I would opt for an Oboe that would enhance the chorus and be a good solo stop. IMHO a trumpet would be too loud for the available resources.   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida   http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/rohrschok8/OrganMusicLibrary    
(back) Subject: Re: discarded pipe organs From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:05:17 -0500 (EST)     >Pipe organs are discarded for all sorts of silly > reasons ... >And, yes, there ARE some unscrupulous > sales-persons out there... I remember a tale about an organ in New Orleans that was replaced with an electronic because the pastor told the "board" that during the severe winter weather the "pipes had frozen" and the organ would no longer play. The "frozen pipes" were in the street several days later and a shiney new electronic was in place. I was assured the story was true.   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida   http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/rohrschok8/OrganMusicLibrary    
(back) Subject: Useless Aeoline? From: "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:22:57 -0600   >Great: >Open Diapason 8' >Melodia 8' >Dulciana 8' >Swell: >Stopped diapason 8' >Aeoline 8' (a waste as far a I am concerned) >Viola 8' >Harmonic flute 4' =A0 >Pedal: >Bourdon 16' =A0 >a full compliment of couplers and a provision for a reed on the swell in >the future.   Aw, come now...the Aeoline isn't a "waste" now is it? Remeber that these voices gained popularity well before that advent of obsessive forced air heating and its requisite mechanical noise. Compared to a century and a half ago, our contemporary sanctuaries are awash in what acousticians refer to as "white noise". Just for kicks, take five minutes to sit in an empty sanctuary and listen. (essentially a private audition of Cage's nefarious oeuvre for silent piano) After a while, you'll really start to pick out the various background sounds. Unfortunately, once you make the decision to start noticing the background noise around you..it will ultimately end in your own insanity. When this organ was built, there were no such distractions...save possibly the gentle whoosh of the bellows and the chirping of birds or clopclop of horsehooves outside. None of the maddening hum that you get from flourescent lights, CPU fans, and modern HVAC. Without all the distraction, the effect of an utterly hushed Aeoline was quite striking.   If you put a gun to my head and asked me to suggest a change, I might be tempted to switch the Dulciana and the Aeoline, or to add a light 4' Octave to the Great to give some muscle in the hymns...but I'm definitely with Bruce--let the organ be! It must be a real treat to sing hymns around this thing. Before you stick an Oboe in this thing just for the sake of having a reed, ask yourself if you really need it. Don't the individual flues have enough beauty to work as solo stops? (a lovely possibility that is sadly neglected in contemporary organ training) Do you really need the extra snarl and bite in the chorus? By "full compliment of couplers", are you referring to the three standard couplers on a two manual tracker? or a rack shot through with sub- super- supra- subsuper- subsub- intersuper- subtrans- and polysuper- couplers a la G. D. Harrison? If you're absolutely desperate for something different, then shoot the moon and get a second (contrasting) organ--perhaps a small instrument after Andreas Silbermann. Trying to change this one would be disastrous--this century has produced hundreds of mutilated organs around the country bearing grim testimony to that. -- Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   In a stream stood fair Lady Gertrude, Whose bath left her totally nude, A man came along... ...and unless I am wrong, You expected this line to be lewd!      
(back) Subject: Re: Useless Aeoline? From: <KurtvonS@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:28:05 EST   In a message dated 2/1/00 10:19:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, gemshorn@falcon.cc.ukans.edu writes:   << By "full compliment of couplers", are you referring to the three standard couplers on a two manual tracker? or a rack shot through with sub- super- supra- subsuper- subsub- intersuper- subtrans- and polysuper- couplers a la G. D. Harrison? >> G.Donald Harrison was certainly not an advocate of the coupling excesses = you quote; just look at the specifications of the Tabernacle organ, or the original specs. for St.Thomas, NYC for proof.  
(back) Subject: Re: discarded pipe organs From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:16:31   At 11:54 AM 2/1/2000 -0500, you wrote: >What is it with the "fly-by-nighters." I just stopped into a church >with a 1908 Moller tracker that I worked on about ten years ago, got it >playing and they enjoyed it for about a month until the organist needed >louder and pistons. There is now an Alien on the floor! The local >pirate has convinced them that he can make the organ do whatever they >want if he rebuilds it. it is now being destroyed! Sigh. And the >worst part is that there are at least ten churches in town who have been >really ripped off by this guy and who have found him out, but won't >prosecute or "sully his good name".<snip>   WHAT good name? A crook's a crook, and the organ bizz is FULL of them. Any church that lets some goof like this get away with it is doing a great disservice to others. We have laws and a judicial system that's supposed to protect us from these types. This "turning the other cheek" garbage only should go so far! I say, "hang 'em....hang 'em high!"   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: organ re-build From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 11:18:30   At 12:01 PM 2/1/2000 -0500, Brewse wrote:   >Aeolines are unique whisper stops.<snip>   Yes! Brewse uses them all the time! They make his Bawld-One schpinettes go "whisper whisper whisper" whilst he tickles their "plastics"!   BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: Useless Aeoline? From: "Tom Jones" <tomj@netpath.net> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 14:57:44 -0500   The ugliest stop I ever heard until I went to college was called "Salicional," though it wasn't really a salicional at all, of course. = Years later, when I had the chance to supervise some work done to improve that miserable organ, we examined that stop and discovered that it was really a reamed-out Aeoline. We closed the toes back up, and the prettiest sound = you ever heard emerged. It was so sweet with the Dulciana, which we tuned as a celeste, that I decided that if I could have only one celeste--which is = all I personally would have unless the organ were fairly sizable--I'd want it to be on the quiet side rather than the full-bodied side.   Regards, Tom Jones Organist/Choir Director Mebane Presbyterian Church, Mebane, N.C.  
(back) Subject: Re: Useless Aeoline? From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:13:16   At 01:28 PM 2/1/2000 EST, you wrote: >or a rack shot through with sub- super- supra- subsuper- subsub- >intersuper- subtrans- and polysuper- couplers a la G. D. Harrison? >>   ExCUUUUUUUSE me! G. Donald Harrison was no fan of a manic supply of couplers, to be sure! Coupler mania was more of a Robert Hope-Jones trademark than anybody else's. GDH despised the use of supercouplers on his ensembles, especially. The only reason for a "rack shot full" of them of various pitches was because of customer demand, more than anything else. The only reason for existance of sub- and super-couplers, both intra- and interdivision, is to put solo voices otherwise not available into a preferred pitch, or to enhance a "romantic" mash of string tone, for= example.   Use of such couplers in a properly built ensemble is asking for trouble. It is said that GDH purposely voiced his upper work in a somewhat subdued fashion to prevent his organs from becoming "shrieky" when a clueless player would use them. Such use of sub- and super-couplers was a hangover from the days of the tubby "unison" organs of the early 20th century (E.M. Skinner was as guilty of this as many others), when it was the only way one could attain any sort of "ensemble" (unified to the hilt, =E1 la an analog electronic) at 8', 4', and 2', playing an octave higher.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Useless Aeoline? From: "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 15:51:47 -0500 (EST)   Excerpts from mail: 1-Feb-100 Re: Useless Aeoline? by Bob = Scarborough@rglobal. > Such use of sub- and super-couplers was a hangover > from the days of the tubby "unison" organs of the early 20th century = (E.M. > Skinner was as guilty of this as many others), when it was the only way = one > could attain any sort of "ensemble" Yea, verily. I remember that at Union Seminary NYC in the 50s, many of us, first thing we'd do when we sat down at the chapel Moller would be to punch all the unison-offs, then put down all the super couplers, and draw the manual doubles to get 8' tone back. Yes, it was kinda shrill, but that was 'in' then. Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Re: Useless Aeoline? From: "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@falcon.cc.ukans.edu> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 15:36:40 -0600   Arrr, you got me. I was thinking more along the lines of a Skinner or a M=F6ller.   I am still waiting to find out what the original poster meant by "full complement of couplers"... -- Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/    
(back) Subject: Re: organ re-build From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:35:26 -0500   >At 12:01 PM 2/1/2000 -0500, Brewse wrote: > >>Aeolines are unique whisper stops.<snip> > >Yes! Brewse uses them all the time! They make his Bawld-One schpinettes >go "whisper whisper whisper" whilst he tickles their "plastics"!     And, yes there were actually records out by A "Brad Swanson" who played = the "whispering organ of Brad Swanson" I think he played a Gulbransen. Don't know what stops he used.   For what it's worth....   John V      
(back) Subject: Re: Useless Aeoline? From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 13:45:58 -0800   True ... St. Thomas had only unison couplers after the '58 (?) Harrison rebuild.   Cheers,   Bud   KurtvonS@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/1/00 10:19:17 AM Pacific Standard Time, > gemshorn@falcon.cc.ukans.edu writes: > > << By "full compliment of couplers", are you referring to the three > standard couplers on a two manual tracker? or a rack shot through with > sub- super- supra- subsuper- subsub- intersuper- subtrans- and > polysuper- couplers a la G. D. Harrison? >> > G.Donald Harrison was certainly not an advocate of the coupling excesses = you > quote; just look at the specifications of the Tabernacle organ, or the > original specs. for St.Thomas, NYC for proof. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: organ re-build From: <Posthorn8@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 16:50:35 EST   In a message dated 2/1/00 4:40:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, jovanderlee@vassar.edu writes:   << And, yes there were actually records out by A "Brad Swanson" who played = the "whispering organ of Brad Swanson" I think he played a Gulbransen. >>   Brad Swanson played an Allen Theatre organ on his Albums.   Just me  
(back) Subject: Pilcher re-build From: "Gary Black" <gblack@ocslink.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 14:33:24 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001B_01BF5852.FD052A80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Hi everyone, What I meant by the aeoline as being a waste is that it is = =3D in the swell and with the box closed you can hardly hear it. The room =3D that the organ plays in is large and the aeoline is barely hearable =3D downstairs. The dulciana is quiet enough to use for soft music. We are = =3D not going to throw it out but may tune it as a celeste. What I also =3D meant by a full complement of couplers is: Sw -sw 4 and 16, unison =3D off. Sw-gt. 16. 8. 4 and gt.-gt 4 . The Pilcher is small and was =3D designed as an organ to lead singing etc. not as a recital instrument. = =3D The music of Vierne and others of that genre sound wonderful on this =3D organ. The organ has a wonderful, round sound to it that is very =3D pleasant. Thanks for listening. Gary Black   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001B_01BF5852.FD052A80 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Hi everyone,&nbsp; What I meant by = the =3D aeoline as=3D20 being a waste is that it is in the swell and with the box closed you can = =3D hardly=3D20 hear it.&nbsp;The room that the organ plays in is large and the aeoline = =3D is=3D20 barely hearable downstairs. The dulciana is quiet enough to use for soft = =3D   music.&nbsp; We are not going to throw it out but may tune it as a=3D20 celeste.&nbsp; What I also meant by a full complement of couplers =3D is:&nbsp; Sw=3D20 -sw&nbsp; 4 and 16, unison off.&nbsp; Sw-gt. 16. 8. 4 and gt.-gt 4 =3D ..&nbsp; The=3D20 Pilcher is small and was designed as an organ to lead&nbsp;singing etc. = =3D not as a=3D20 recital instrument.&nbsp; The music of Vierne and others of that genre =3D sound=3D20 wonderful on this organ.&nbsp; The organ has a wonderful, round&nbsp; =3D sound to=3D20 it that&nbsp;is very pleasant.&nbsp; Thanks for listening.&nbsp; Gary=3D20 Black</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001B_01BF5852.FD052A80--    
(back) Subject: Re: The organ in the Cathedral of St. Loius de Versailles From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 21:31:44 -0000   >To my friends on both lists: > >I have recently bought a two CD set of music from Versailles on the = French >SM Label: SM D2489, comprising of a CD of Choral and Organ music on one >CD, and music for harpsichord on the other. > >The recordings are very good, and the French only notes are OK, with the >exception that the organ is not mentioned, - the Organist and Choir get >mentioned, but nothing at all about the organ, > >If any-one on either of the lists has any information on the organ I = would >be very pleased to read it. > >Many thanks, > >Bob Conway >"I am easily satisfied with the very best." Sir Winston Churchill.     You will probably find something at: http://www.culture.fr/culture/orgues/sommaire.html   Richard    
(back) Subject: St. Olaf Choir in Princeton NJ ??????? From: "Mr. Jan S. VanDerStad" <dcob@nac.net> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 18:45:42 -0500   Good Evening, All   Sorry to post this to all the lists, but I understand that St. Olaf Choir is supposed to be in Princeton University this coming Thursday night.   A friend of mine heard half the commercial on the radio and missed the phone number for tickets, directions, etc.   Can someone please provide me with more info. on this as soon as possible? Thanks.   Jan Vanderstad Oak Ridge NJ  
(back) Subject: Re: Useless Aeoline? From: "Tom Jones" <tomj@netpath.net> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 19:19:52 -0500   > Such use of sub- and super-couplers was a hangover > from the days of the tubby "unison" organs of the early 20th century (E.M. > Skinner was as guilty of this as many others), when it was the only way one > could attain any sort of "ensemble"   Yes--but E.M. Skinners were responsibly designed as far as the sub- and super-couplers was concerned. The mixtures (and everything else) were designed and voiced with the expectation that these devices would be used. They didn't shriek.   Regards, Tom Jones Organist/Choir Director Mebane Presbyterian Church, Mebane, N.C.  
(back) Subject: Re: Useless Aeoline? From: "Adrianne Schutt" <maybe@pipcom.com> Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 20:37:03 -0800   At 12:22 PM 2/1/2000 -0600, Robert Horton wrote: > Unfortunately, once you make the decision to start noticing the >background noise around you..it will ultimately end in your own >insanity. Consider those of us who are/were in the HVAC trades, and listen to these systems out of habit. ;->   Have fun! Ad ;->      
(back) Subject: Fw: Useless Aeoline? From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:30:47 -0500   Insanity, you say??? Working in the depths of St. Francis DeSales pipe chambers, I could have sworn the 16' Open Wood was talking to me!!!! Not only that, but three sparrow skeletons in the Gedeckt were watching me!!! OY!!!!!!!   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: Adrianne Schutt <maybe@pipcom.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2000 11:37 PM Subject: Re: Useless Aeoline?     > At 12:22 PM 2/1/2000 -0600, Robert Horton wrote: > > Unfortunately, once you make the decision to start noticing the > >background noise around you..it will ultimately end in your own > >insanity. > Consider those of us who are/were in the HVAC trades, and = listen > to these systems out of habit. ;-> > > Have fun! > Ad ;-> > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >