PipeChat Digest #1259 - Monday, February 7, 2000
 
Re: dusty treasures (X-posted)
  by "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu>
AAAARG!
  by "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu>
Music List, Cadet Chapel, West Point 6 Feb 2000
  by "Pat Maimone" <patmai@juno.com>
Re:Poulenc's Concerton in g minor
  by "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com>
Re: Music List, Cadet Chapel, West Point 6 Feb 2000
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus  (you  tra
  by "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com>
Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus (you   tra
  by "Bud" <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus   (you  tr
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
RE: Poulenc's Concerton in g minor
  by "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net>
Re: Poulenc's Concerton in g minor
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Hammonds old and new
  by "Bud" <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus  (you   tr
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Disposing of "donated" organs; Hammond thread
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus  (you	 tra
  by <Posthorn8@aol.com>
Fw: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus (you	 tran
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re:Poulenc's Concerton in g minor
  by "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersv.edu>
Orange Curtains, politics, Hammonds, etc.
  by "Bud" <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 



(back) Subject: Re: dusty treasures (X-posted) From: "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 07:46:04 -0500   > The retired choir director is behind this, of course ... she stomped out > of church in the middle of communion today because we sang "Whiter Than > Snow" (which was requested by a elderly parishioner who's dying, but no > matter).   My God, and I thought -I- had it bad! What a....well, you already know.   Damn choir directors....    
(back) Subject: AAAARG! From: "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 07:55:26 -0500   > My God, and I thought -I- had it bad! What a....well, you already know. > > Damn choir directors....   Yeah, well this is what I get for getting up -early-. Please forgive, = folks, 'twas supposed to be private.   Both the mother and the mother-in-law-to-be visited this weekend, so I'm still a little groggy....*disclaimer: the choir director bit was aimed at those that Bud and I have issues with.....   -Rebekah Open mouth. Insert foot. (food?)    
(back) Subject: Music List, Cadet Chapel, West Point 6 Feb 2000 From: "Pat Maimone" <patmai@juno.com> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:21:21 -0500   Prelude Toccata in E Minor Johann Pachelbel Adagio (Sonata I) Felix Mendelssohn   Choral Introit Kocher, arr. Monk (Stanza 4 of "For the Beauty of the Earth" For the joy of human love Brother, sister, parent, child,   * Friends on earth and friends above, For all gentle thoughts and mild,   Lord of all, to thee we raise This our hymn of grateful praise. Hymn # 111 Great Is Thy Faithfulness Three Praise choruses played by Deb Alley, piano and Chaplain Don Weiss, guitar Sermon "Treasures in Heaven" Chaplain (MAJ) John Cook Offertory Anthem Behold the Man Jimmy Owens Hymn #297 On a Hill Far Away   Postlude Allegro moderato (Sonata I) Mendelssohn Greetings to all from the wintry Hudson Valley, where temperatures in the 30's are considered warm these days.. *I included the introit text here to reflect my gratitude to friends on Pipechat who have encouraged me these past few months. The Mendelssohn sonata excerpts were in honor of his birthday February 3. Did anyone else play Mendelssohn this week (or last Sunday?)   Pat Maimone Interim Organist-Choirmaster, Cadet Chapel West Point, NY IV/325   ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.  
(back) Subject: Re:Poulenc's Concerton in g minor From: "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 09:49:53 -0800 (PST)   While Saint-Saens did not "register" his organ symphony, Poulenc was specific in terms of stops he wanted used in the Concerto in g minor.   Our 20th anniversary concert for the organ at church is coming up in October and I'd like to play the Concerto. The organ is a far cry from the Cavaille-Colle instruments on which the piece was first played. I'm not too decided yet, although I have to make the final decision soon, in order to schedule time to finish learning the piece.   Ours is a 3m/40rank Casavant. Enclosed swell. All other divisions exposed/unenclosed. Old style plunger combination action, so that enters into the equation, too.   Any ideas? Concerns? Thanks for your input.   I'd be wiling to post the specs if anyone wants them.   Steve Ohmer St. John Church Bartlesville OK     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Music List, Cadet Chapel, West Point 6 Feb 2000 From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:20:36 -0500   > From: Pat Maimone <patmai@juno.com> > > Interim Organist-Choirmaster, Cadet Chapel > West Point, NY > IV/325   Well, Pat, kind of a mixed bag, I guess. Glad to see you're having a good time, a little bit, at least. But what a dreadful service!   Like many a service we've both been through, the musicians do world-class work and nobody else does ANYthing worth showing up for!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus (you translate it) From: "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:54:15 -0500   At 10:01 PM 2/6/2000 -0800, Bud wrote: >It's all so silly because they've only HAD a choir for about eight years = ... >five with the diva and three with me ... and I'm the first professional >ORGANIST they've EVER had ... this is a NEW parish ... about fifteen = years >old tops ... NOTHING is old enough to claim the sanction of immemorial >custom, much less tradition. > >I SAID something directly to the Rector about his discussing the music = with >the retired diva, and he just about took my head off. "I am THE RECTOR = and I >can talk to anybody I please about anything I please." The ethical = dimension >he refused to see. > Bud, I think you should bail ASAP. Do you really need this job to make a living? Wouldn't flipping burgers be less stressful? IMNSHO, they should be kissing your feet, not to mention other parts, just for putting up with the mighty Hammond.   Evie   mailto:efrowe@mindspring.com  
(back) Subject: Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus (you translate it) From: "Bud" <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:12:19 -0800       Evelyn Rowe wrote:   > Bud, I think you should bail ASAP. Do you really need this job to make = a > living? Wouldn't flipping burgers be less stressful? IMNSHO, they = should > be kissing your feet, not to mention other parts, just for putting up = with > the mighty Hammond. > > Evie   Yeah, unfortunately I do ... and I actually LIKE the choir and MOST of the = people .... I like the traditional liturgy and music ... MY mistake was regarding = it as a CHURCH ... it's exactly the same as any other bottom-line-driven mid-size growth-oriented corporation in Orange County, CA ... and I need to apply corporate shark-pool ethics to my dealings with them ... THAT they = understand. But a CHURCH? Naaaaaah...   Re the Hammond: they should have caught on when I was looking for a = substitute last year ... the Rector was in the office while I was making the calls = ... money offered was OK, service schedule was OK, but then we'd get to   "And what is the organ?"   "A Hammond/Suzuki with an AGO console."   "So sorry ... we're going to the desert that weekend."   NOBODY else will PLAY the thing ... when I'm sick or on vacation, they = have to use the piano, which should tell them SOMETHING.   He thinks organists are just being snotty when they refuse to play = Hammonds. I've tried to explain to him that the rising generation of organists likely = haven't even SEEN a classic tonewheeler B-3, unless they happen to be interested = in jazz, rock or gospel organ-playing (or the history of electric/electronic = organs) ... they simply don't know HOW to PLAY them ... never mind this misbegotten = "thang" I play ... NOBODY (including me) has ever seen one, and you have to know how = to play BOTH a drawbar organ AND a regular organ AND be able to combine the = two skills in order to get any sound out of the beast. It was Hammond's last = attempt to stay in the low-end church organ market ... it failed miserably (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   P.S. -THANKS for the kind words!    
(back) Subject: Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus (you translate it) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 11:47:33   At 01:54 PM 2/7/2000 -0500, you wrote: >IMNSHO, they should be kissing your feet, not to mention other parts, >just for putting up with the mighty Hammond.<snip>   Hey! I resemble dat remark! But poor Bud, and poor, poor, St. Matt's-by-the-Burger-King...they don't even have a real tonewheel Hammond!   Listening to Hoffnung for amusement this morning,   DeserTBoB ....with 2 Hammonds in the house  
(back) Subject: RE: Poulenc's Concerton in g minor From: "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 12:40:33 -0500   Stephen:   I have played the Poulenc many times and it is not that difficult to play = or to register. The registrations are pretty basic for the most part and a 3m Cassvant should handle it fine.   You might want to try and schedule it with the Copland Organ Symphony, = which compliments it nicely. However, you need a larger instrumental ensemble = for it.   Let me know how I can help!!   Dr. Charles E. Brown http://www.classicalcorner.com   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Stephen Ohmer Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 12:50 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Re:Poulenc's Concerton in g minor     While Saint-Saens did not "register" his organ symphony, Poulenc was specific in terms of stops he wanted used in the Concerto in g minor.   Our 20th anniversary concert for the organ at church is coming up in October and I'd like to play the Concerto. The organ is a far cry from the Cavaille-Colle instruments on which the piece was first played. I'm not too decided yet, although I have to make the final decision soon, in order to schedule time to finish learning the piece.   Ours is a 3m/40rank Casavant. Enclosed swell. All other divisions exposed/unenclosed. Old style plunger combination action, so that enters into the equation, too.   Any ideas? Concerns? Thanks for your input.   I'd be wiling to post the specs if anyone wants them.   Steve Ohmer St. John Church Bartlesville OK     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Poulenc's Concerton in g minor From: "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 14:20:58 -0600   Steve, Without even looking at the spec, your biggest difficulty is probably = going to be finding a good solo reed. I seem to remember that Marie-Claire = Alain's recording of this work is notable for a particularly wretched fractional = (as is her recording of one of the Handel Concertos). What specific spots concern you for registration? -- Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/  
(back) Subject: Hammonds old and new From: "Bud" <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:34:22 -0800       Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 01:54 PM 2/7/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >IMNSHO, they should be kissing your feet, not to mention other parts, > >just for putting up with the mighty Hammond.<snip> > > Hey! I resemble dat remark! But poor Bud, and poor, poor, St. > Matt's-by-the-Burger-King...they don't even have a real tonewheel = Hammond! > > Listening to Hoffnung for amusement this morning, > > DeserTBoB > ...with 2 Hammonds in the house >   As Bob well knows, I'm NOT trashing CLASSIC Hammonds ... I have maintained = for YEARS that they're the ONLY electric/electronic organ around which a LEGITIMATE literature has developed ... jazz, rock, gospel, etc.   BUT, as Bob and I have BOTH pointed out, the knowledge of how to really = get something OUT of a tonewheeler Hammond in order to play a traditional liturgical CHURCH SERVICE is an art that's vanishing even faster than the ability to PLAY such a service...   I can remember hearing a STUNNING performance of the Charles Wood "St. = Luke Passion" in a very reverberant Episcopal church with a C-3 YEARS ago ... = lots of speakers, big chambers, excellent acoustics ... I was only very VAGUELY aware that it was a Hammond doing the accompanying.   I made a recording of the Liberal Catholic liturgy several years ago for = their archbishop to distribute to parishes as a model of how to do the Liberal Catholic High Mass ... when you listen to it, the organ is just sorta = "there" .... one thing Hammonds CAN do is accompany Chant.   I LOVE old Hammonds, and I love tinkering with them, and I love = experimenting with the sounds ... if you follow the Dictionary of Hammond Organ Stops EXACTLY, you CAN do some AMAZING things with them ... you just have to = accept that they have limitations, like any other organ.   One of the reasons they're collector's items IS that you CAN'T kill 'em, = as long as you oil 'em once a year and replace the vibrato scanner from time = to time (and the tubes in the amps, if they're still tube amps), and replace = an occasional belt on the obligatory Leslie spin-dryer (grin).   Unfortunately, Suzuki's illegitimate knock-off doesn't have any of those endearing characteristics ... there aren't enough drawbars or presets to = play it like a tonewheeler; there aren't enough sampled voices to play it like = a normal organ; and it requires CONSTANT maintenance. Even then, it's = unreliable at BEST ... I think I told y'all about the Christmas Eve a couple of years = ago when the transposer went crazy and started transposing up and down in the middle of "O Come, All Ye Faithful". Now THAT'S scary ...   But the spirit of the dearly-departed donor lives in that console = (somewhere down around the pedals, I think), and as long as his widow is alive (AND = on the Vestry), that will be the organ at St. Matthew's Church. Personally, I think HE'S trying to TELL us something (grin).   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus (you translate it) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 12:54:44   At 11:12 AM 2/7/2000 -0800, you wrote: >MY mistake was regarding it as a CHURCH ... it's exactly the same as >any other bottom-line-driven mid-size growth-oriented corporation in >Orange County, CA ... and I need to apply corporate shark-pool ethics to >my dealings with them ... THAT they understand. >But a CHURCH? Naaaaaah...<snip>   Such are the hazards of being in the republican/management-infested waters of Orange County! I refer to this condition as being trapped "behind the Orange Curtain".   >"And what is the organ?" > >"A Hammond/Suzuki with an AGO console." > >"So sorry ... we're going to the desert that weekend."   There WAS a day when organ study pretty much had to include time spent dealing with the drawbars of the tonewheeled poseur. Now that pipeless organs are becoming the tonal equivalent of piped ones, the transition = from one to another is almost seamless (dependant on how reactionary one is, of course!). One thing that the Hammond did accomplish well was to train the ear in the harmonic content of stops. Once this was learned, it would become very obvious to the organist what the harmonic makeup of various stops was simply by "dissecting" them with the ear. Even with the limited 9-drawbar tonewheel models, it was possible for the veteran to make passible combinations representing flute and foundation, and to a limited degree, string tone. Of course, the ear would immediately recognize the resulting mash as a Hammond tone, due to the immediate attack and decay properties of the Hammond.   >NOBODY else will PLAY the thing ... when I'm sick or on vacation, they >have to use the piano, which should tell them SOMETHING.   >I've tried to explain to him that the rising generation of organists likely >haven't even SEEN a classic tonewheeler B-3<snip>   All too true. In the mainstream, Hammonds are a milestone in electronic musical instrument history, but no one knows how to deal with them on a working basis.   >NOBODY (including me) has ever seen one, and you have to know how to >play BOTH a drawbar organ AND a regular organ AND be able to combine >the two skills in order to get any sound out of the beast.<snip>   For a view of Bud's "beast", surf on over to:   http://theatreorgans.com/hammond/825frnt.jpg   It was Hammond's last attempt to stay in the low-end church organ = market<snip>   Ah, but wait! "Ham/Suz" has fielded a new line of digital AGO console organs (all Hammond organs are digital nowadays, including "virtual tonewheels"...whatever *those* are), built in Holland, and priced to nip = at the low-end of the digital market. Note, however, the console woodwork is even less attractive than Bud's bemoaned 825! You can see one at:   http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hammond_suzuki/CS-235.htm   The only chorus reed is on the great, but two soft solo reeds on the = swell. But, by golly, you gotta 32' violone! Dig that five rank "cornet"!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Disposing of "donated" organs; Hammond thread From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 13:25:09   At 12:34 PM 2/7/2000 -0800, you wrote:   >there aren't enough sampled voices to play it like a >normal organ; and it requires CONSTANT maintenance. Even then, it's >unreliable at BEST ... I think I told y'all about the Christmas Eve a couple >of years ago when the transposer went crazy and started transposing up >and down in the middle of "O Come, All Ye Faithful". Now THAT'S scary= ...   Hammond of the "LSI" era, after tonewheels were discontinued around 1974, are notoriously unreliable. Most problems can be traced to inferior circuit board connectors. Once cleaned with a pencil eraser and treated with a lubricating, sealing spray, such as DE-OX-IT from Caig Laboratories from San Diego, reliability is much better. However, some organ techs don't do this, as it would deprive them of a fat profit! Still, the Super-B/825 are tonal quagmires, and would tax the patience of ANY organist! > >But the spirit of the dearly-departed donor lives in that console >(somewhere down around the pedals, I think)<snip>   Time to fumigate!!   >and as long as his widow is alive (AND on the Vestry), that will be the >organ at St. Matthew's Church.<snip>   I got around this one time in dealing with a 1950 Allen W-T (the one with the tongue tabs that only called up "combinations" rather than individual voices. It was donated by a fairly wealthy parishoner, and the rector was afraid they'd be offended should the "mighty Allen" be deposed. The trick was to stick it over in the Fellowship Hall! That way, it was still around, could be used for "entertainment", and the new organ went into the sanctuary. Alas, it was a '60s M=F6ller, and we weren't quite ready for the problems THAT caused! But that's another story....   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus (you transla... From: <Posthorn8@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 16:51:06 EST   For about a year now I've come home from my church job saying, "If I = didn't need the money I wouldn't be doing this."   Just me.  
(back) Subject: Fw: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus (you transla... From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 17:59:02 -0500   I can sympathize with Buds postings about his church and their = shenanigans. That's ONE reason why I've never pursued a church position. I was just informed I lost a maintainence contract because of church politics- = someone in the congregation has a cousin in the business. I know that persons reputation- oh well, don't call me!   Rick   ----- Original Message ----- From: <Posthorn8@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2000 4:51 PM Subject: Re: dusty treasures, retired divas, and Rector vel fundamentus = (you transla...     > For about a year now I've come home from my church job saying, "If I didn't > need the money I wouldn't be doing this." > > Just me. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re:Poulenc's Concerton in g minor From: "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersv.edu> Date: Mon, 7 Feb 2000 18:07:29 -0500 (EST)   > While Saint-Saens did not "register" his organ > symphony, Poulenc was specific in terms of stops > he wanted used in the Concerto in g minor. > > The organ is a far cry from the Cavaille-Colle instruments on which the > piece was first played. Ours is a 3m/40rank Casavant. Enclosed > swell. All other divisions exposed/unenclosed.   Good quality music usually withstands organ sounds not fully authentic to the composer's expectations. The Poulenc is surely a very strong score and will survive amost ANY organ. IMHO. Cordially,   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA    
(back) Subject: Orange Curtains, politics, Hammonds, etc. From: "Bud" <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 07 Feb 2000 15:08:56 -0800       Bob Scarborough wrote:   > Such are the hazards of being in the republican/management-infested = waters > of Orange County! I refer to this condition as being trapped "behind = the > Orange Curtain".   It's a whole 'nother world behind the Orange Curtain, folks.   The DoubleSpeak of "1984" has indeed arrived, but on the RIGHT, not the = LEFT ... I listened to the Friday morning Bible class spend their time shredding = President Clinton's State of the Union Address (the BIBLE STUDY CLASS, mind you ... = oh well ....), and I had to wonder what President and what address THEY listened = to ... certainly not the one EYE did (grin, sorta). What they disagree with, they demonize with such vehemence that there is NO room WHATSOEVER for = discussion;   and, BTW, that's exactly how they approach criticising the music at St. = Matthew's .... what they don't like, they demonize. It's not sufficient to say = "would you play a little quieter?", or "could we sing more familiar hymns?" or = "please stop playing 'Sweet Hour of Prayer' during communion."   No, it's "IF YOU DON'T STOP DOING THUS-AND-SUCH, WE'RE (1) GONNA GET YOU = FIRED (that tactic, at least, has failed so far) and/or (2) WE'RE GONNA LEAVE = THE CHURCH AND TAKE ALL OUR MONEY WITH US (two families actually HAVE).   To the Rector's credit, he won't submit to that kind of blackmail, but I = think more because it challenges HIS authority, rather than from any desire to = support ME.   Bob continues:   > There WAS a day when organ study pretty much had to include time spent > dealing with the drawbars of the tonewheeled poseur. Now that pipeless > organs are becoming the tonal equivalent of piped ones, the transition = from > one to another is almost seamless (dependant on how reactionary one is, = of > course!). One thing that the Hammond did accomplish well was to train = the > ear in the harmonic content of stops. Once this was learned, it would > become very obvious to the organist what the harmonic makeup of various > stops was simply by "dissecting" them with the ear. Even with the = limited > 9-drawbar tonewheel models, it was possible for the veteran to make > passible combinations representing flute and foundation, and to a = limited > degree, string tone. Of course, the ear would immediately recognize the > resulting mash as a Hammond tone, due to the immediate attack and decay > properties of the Hammond.   Just so ... by knowing how the OLD Hammonds made an Oboe, a Clarinet, a = Vox Humana, a Vox Celeste, etc., by judiciously reinforcing those harmonics = with the drawbars and mixing them with the sampled voices of the same or similar = names, I CAN come up with something RESEMBLING the "real thing", but what a way to = have to get to it ... waste a whole general piston just to set up the Swell 8' = Oboe (since the drawbars are only controlled by the general pistons)   Bob continues:   > Ah, but wait! "Ham/Suz" has fielded a new line of digital AGO console > organs (all Hammond organs are digital nowadays, including "virtual > tonewheels"...whatever *those* are), built in Holland, and priced to nip = at > the low-end of the digital market. Note, however, the console woodwork = is > even less attractive than Bud's bemoaned 825! You can see one at: > > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/hammond_suzuki/CS-235.htm > > The only chorus reed is on the great, but two soft solo reeds on the = swell. > But, by golly, you gotta 32' violone! Dig that five rank "cornet"! > > DeserTBoB   It looks very generic European electronic organ (grin).   My spies tell me that Hammond/Suzuki hasn't shown up at the national trade = shows the past year or two, though a dude HAS set himself up as the = Hammond/Suzuki dealer in San Diego ... poor thing! He's trying to go head-to-head with = the ALLEN and RODGERS dealerships on church sales (grin). I suppose he'll make a few = sales to churches who aren't looking at anything but the bottom line.   The CS-235 has most of the same problems as the 825 ... note in particular = that the Swell has an 8' Open Diapason and a 2' Super Octave, but no 4' Principal (!), and, like the 825, there's no 8' FLUTE on the Swell ... at least on the = 825 you have the 8' Flute DRAWBAR. But it has a Swell to Great and a Swell to = Pedal, which the 825 doesn't. I don't know WHO dreamed up that 4' Aeoline on the = Great .... at least maybe it's quieter than the 4' buzz-saw Salicet on the 825. = Oddly, the STRINGS are the worst stops on the 825, and most electronic organs can = come up with HALFWAY decent strings.   In fairness, for an AGO console in the $10K-$15K range, they're probably = tolerable if you add external speakers (as we've done with the 825 ... if those = speakers were high on the back wall in large chambers, as they'll be in the interim = church, even the 825 would be TOLERABLE ... but not MORE than tolerable). But even = a little Galanti would play more music, I'd think ...   Cheers,   Bud