PipeChat Digest #1281 - Sunday, February 27, 2000
 
Organ Concert for the diary!
  by <NAShepherd@aol.com>
Website.
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Website.
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Re: Registration suggestions for BWV705
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
ALL POINTS BULLETIN (X-posted)
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
BWV705 and more
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: BWV705 and more
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: BWV705 and more
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: BWV705 and more
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Many thanks...
  by "Charles Wertalik" <wertzl@earthlink.net>
Re: BWV705 and more
  by "John  M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com>
facades, etc.
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Fw: Many thanks...
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Gregorian type font for the computer (X-posed)
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 



(back) Subject: Organ Concert for the diary! From: <NAShepherd@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 06:53:03 EST   Friends,   If you have any means of publicising the event below, please do pass on to=20 the relevant lists/organisations etc!   Friday 10th March, 7.30pm=20 St John's Parish Church, Keynsham (Mid way between Bristol and Bath) Organ concert by Nigel Ogden=20 (Playing the large 3 manual pipe organ (built by G Sherborne of Bath).=20 This is a "light" programme - so don't come expecting classical orgn rep! Admission =A35.00 Video screen to show "close up's".=20 "Fun for all the family, seats in all parts!"   Details from Neil Shepherd on 0117-908-2567     Best wishes to all,   Neil Shepherd  
(back) Subject: Website. From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:47:43 -0000   Hi Everyone,   Just to let you know that my church's website (of which I am the = webmaster) is updated. There is the spec of the larger of our organs on it (through = the music department page). The music list will be put online in the next = couple of months, alongside the spec of our other organ.   The URL is: http://www.allsaintsnorthampton.freeserve.co.uk   Richard   P.S. If you go there, please sign the guestbook at the bottom of the first page - thanks.    
(back) Subject: Re: Website. From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:19:54 EST       Hi Richard,   You might want to check your sight. On the large organ there is no pedal division listed but I see a pedal board. Is this one of the older English =   organs with no pedal stops of it's own ?   Also check our the Great and Swell stop listings. They are the same save = for the 16' Quintadon and 8'Diapason on the Gt and 8'Tapered Flute and Viola = de Gamba on the Swell. Looks like some one was typing the Swell stop list = and started reading the Great again! Is this the way it is?   Other wise - nice history on the church! I'm a big church history buff = and it was very interesting reading.   All the best,   Erik >   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Registration suggestions for BWV705 From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 15:48:23 -0500 (EST)     >I recently came across BWV705 (the prelude > on Durch Adams Fall ist ganz verderbt).... >My only hesitation is what registration to use. Mark, This is indeed a wonderful piece. It is not seriously difficult, but needs to be learned and played carefully. Because there is a great deal of symbolism contained within, the registration should not obscure or dominate. I would use a very warm sound, perhaps several Principals together, warmed by 4' flutes on the manuals; the pedal line is important, but should not dominate so I would use 8' Principal with a softer 16', preferably a stringy cello-like sound such as a Violone, Contra Gambe or Gemshorn. If your fortunate enough to have a pedal Cello 8, that would give the motif line without dominance.   Keep us posted as to how it goes. I'm going to re-insert this into my repertory. Thanks for bringing it back to our attention.     bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida   http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/rohrschok8/OrganMusicLibrary    
(back) Subject: ALL POINTS BULLETIN (X-posted) From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 16:09:10 -0600   Greetings, Esteemed List-Members --   I am in need of any information that anyone could supply regarding Kimball "Soloist" paper roll players for organs. These were produced by the Kimball Company in limited numbers in the early part of the 20th century, before the Company purchased the rights to and began production of a roll-player mechanism as built by the Welte Company.   ANY information that might be available would be helpful -- especially technical information and/or location of any extant examples of the machines. Please reply privately, as it is doubtful that this information is of interest to the List in general.   Gracious thanks to all, for any help that might be offered, no matter how insignificant a bit of information might seem.   Tim Bovard Little Rock, AR <tmbovard@arkansas.net>      
(back) Subject: BWV705 and more From: "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 17:34:31 -0600   bruce cornely wrote: > This is indeed a wonderful piece. It is not seriously difficult, but > needs to be learned and played carefully. Because there is a great > deal of symbolism contained within... Brewwwse, Care to elaborate on said symbolism?   > I would use a very warm sound Ask a hundred different organists and you'll get a hundred different = answers. Given the stil antico "chorale motet" style of writing, I'd lean towards organo pleno. C.F. Penzel's copy presents the work on two staves headed = by the subtitle "fuga manualiter"--make of that what you wish...   > Keep us posted as to how it goes. I'm going to re-insert this into my > repertory. Thanks for bringing it back to our attention. Speaking of bringing works back to general attention, I stumbled across = Nun freut euch (734) while wandering aimlessly in the NBA "miscellaneous" = volume. I remembered hearing Marie-Claire Alain use this work as an encore one = time, and decided to give it a whirl. The NBA prints it on two staves (backed up by Peter Williams' judgement), though it seems a shame not to play the tune in the pedal. It makes the = piece easier to play and IMO, sounds more interesting. Schweitzer thought so = too, and it's printed on three staves in the Schirmer edition. Anyone else = play this work and want to contribute their thoughts? I've been playing it = with a single Chimney Flute 4' for the outer parts and a small 4' Principal for = the tune. -- Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong... A tax is a fine for doing well."  
(back) Subject: Re: BWV705 and more From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:14:49 -0500 (EST)   >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Care to elaborate on said symbolism? >I would use a very warm sound >=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Ask a hundred different organists and > you'll get a hundred different answers. I think this is the beauty of symbolism. The accompanimental harmony is somewhat foreboding and complex symbolic of our sinful ways. The descending motif in the pedal reminds us of humanity's continued falling. >Given the stil antico "chorale motet" style of > writing, I'd lean towards organo pleno. I would agree, but without dreaded mixtures which obscure inner movement, and a heavy pedal which would dominate too much.   > C.F. Penzel's copy presents the work on two > staves headed by the subtitle "fuga > manualiter"--make of that what you wish... Duh! Are we talking about #37 in the Orgelbuchlein?   I stumbled across Nun freut euch (734) while wandering aimlessly in the NBA "miscellaneous" volume. I remembered hearing   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida   http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/rohrschok8/OrganMusicLibrary    
(back) Subject: Re: BWV705 and more From: "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 21:18:19 -0600   bruce cornely wrote: > Duh! Are we talking about #37 in the Orgelbuchlein?   Nope, the Orgelb=FCchlein runs from BWV 599 (Nun komm) through BWV 644 (= Ach wie nichtig). Said pedaliter rendition of "Durch Adam's Fall" being BWV 637.= Our friend was referring to a thouroughly obscure white note in from the collection of various and sundry (formerly known as "Kirnberger") chorale= s.   Now that you mention it, though...the OB setting is quite nice and proba= bly the better of the two. I'm going to dust it off as well!   -- Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong... A tax is a fine for doing well."  
(back) Subject: Re: BWV705 and more From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:47:48 -0800   I THINK we're talking about the chorale motet version of "Durch Adam's = Fall" in the misc. chorale-preludes, which I play on an 8' principal alone (with tremulant) in the manuals, and Subbass 16-Principal 8 in the pedals.   A favor, folks ... like I said, I went to school BEFORE the BWV numbers became popular, so how about using some descriptive terms when you talk about things so I don't have to go look them up ... they don't mean a darn thang to me (grin). "Cathedral" Prelude in e minor does; so does the = "Giant" Fugue on the Credo from the Clavieruebung, etc.   Cheers,   Bud-The-Dinosaur   bruce cornely wrote:   > > Care to elaborate on said symbolism? > >I would use a very warm sound > > Ask a hundred different organists and > > you'll get a hundred different answers. > I think this is the beauty of symbolism. The accompanimental harmony is > somewhat foreboding and complex symbolic of our sinful ways. The > descending motif in the pedal reminds us of humanity's continued > falling. > >Given the stil antico "chorale motet" style of > > writing, I'd lean towards organo pleno. > I would agree, but without dreaded mixtures which obscure inner > movement, and a heavy pedal which would dominate too much. > > > C.F. Penzel's copy presents the work on two > > staves headed by the subtitle "fuga > > manualiter"--make of that what you wish... > Duh! Are we talking about #37 in the Orgelbuchlein? > > I stumbled across Nun freut euch (734) while wandering aimlessly in the > NBA "miscellaneous" volume. I remembered hearing > > bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida > > http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand > http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest > http://community.webtv.net/rohrschok8/OrganMusicLibrary > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Many thanks... From: "Charles Wertalik" <wertzl@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:55:36 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0054_01BF80B4.F9F4C5A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   ....to those list members who so kindly supplied the education on the =3D "montre" stop. =3D20   Every time I look at the facade of an organ, I wonder if the pipes there = =3D are speaking pipes or not. On some instruments, at least, if you look =3D carefully at the descending sizes of the pipes (on both sides of the - =3D usually - tallest center pipe), you can discern that there are pipe =3D length differences from side to side of that center pipe that would =3D indicate the musical scale is present, and therefore, the facade pipes =3D ARE speaking pipes. Some facades I've examined contain an entire 61-note = =3D keyboard's worth.   Hope this qualifies me somewhat as a true organ "nut."   Chuck   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0054_01BF80B4.F9F4C5A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>...to those list members who so = kindly =3D supplied the=3D20 education on the "montre" stop.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Every time I look at the facade of an = =3D organ, I=3D20 wonder if the pipes there are speaking pipes or not. On some =3D instruments, at=3D20 least, if you look carefully at the descending sizes of the pipes (on =3D both sides=3D20 of the - usually - tallest center pipe), you can discern that there are = =3D pipe=3D20 length differences&nbsp;from side to side of that center pipe that would = =3D   indicate the musical scale is present, and therefore, the facade pipes =3D ARE=3D20 speaking pipes. Some facades I've examined contain an entire 61-note =3D keyboard's=3D20 worth.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Hope this qualifies me somewhat as a = =3D true organ=3D20 "nut."</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Chuck</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0054_01BF80B4.F9F4C5A0--    
(back) Subject: Re: BWV705 and more From: "John M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:02:25 -0000   I play "Nun freut euch" from the Peters edition which is 3 staves. For = the right hand I use Flutes 8 and 2, for the left hand, 16 and 4 (flutes) or = 16 and an 8 Gemshorn. Pedal is a 4 reed (Schalmei or even a Clarion will work). I like to have the Zimbelstern going at the same time. Great = piece. John          
(back) Subject: facades, etc. From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:10:06 -0800   Facades - some speak, some don't, some are a mixture of speaking and non-speaking pipes. In a true classic organ (of whatever century) the Principal stop upon which the division is based is placed on the front of that division's "house" in the organ-case ... in a large organ, this would give you:   Pedal   32' Principal - usually divided into C and C# sides in the two pedal "towers" on either side of the case   Great/Grand Orgue/Hauptwerk/I forget the Dutch (grin)/Organo Principale   16' Principal - would usually stand in the center lower section of the case, above the keydesk   Chair/Positive/Positif/Positiv/Rugwerk   8' Principal - on the front of the Positive case, usually placed on the rail of the organ-loft, behind the organist's back   From there, a number of things could happen ... if it's an eclectic organ, there could be a Swell division above the Great, and the Great 8' Principal might be tubed off from the Great chest to screen the Swell shades; or there might be a Brustwerk/Echo organ immediately below the Great which could have doors or shades or a facade of 4' or 2' Principal pipes, depending on what the Brustwerk is based on.   If there is no Swell, there could be an Upper Positive/Oberwerk above the Great, with a facade of 8' or 4' Principal pipes. The rule of divisions being strictly based on 32-16-8-4-2 is sometimes observed, but you're more likely to find 32-16-8-8-4 or 32-16-8-4-4.   A four-manual organ could have EITHER a Brustwerk or a Crown Positive nested on the very top of the case, in addition to the Upper Positive or Swell.   USUALLY you can tell from looking at the facade of classic organ how many manuals it has, and the pitches the divisions are based upon, but not always.   For special visual effect, builders sometimes "force" the lengths of the pipes, that is, they make them longer than they need to be to speak their pitch ... they're cut off in the back by a slot to make their SPEAKING length correct. But forced-length pipes often upset the basic geometry that the pitches of the divisions naturally enforce upon the organ-case, and should be used sparingly.   Non-speaking facades are useless dust-catchers (grin), but a lot of late 19th and early 20th century American organ-builders built them. It is SAID that they DO contribute to the blending of the sound from within, just as speaking facades do ...   You will also occasionally see pipes pointing both up and down ... this is usually done when the building is large and reverberant and the trebles need to be reinforced. The builder will make TWO pipes for each note of the Principal in the treble, and these are sometimes displayed that way.   Cheers,   Bud       Charles Wertalik wrote:   > ...to those list members who so kindly supplied the education on the > "montre" stop. Every time I look at the facade of an organ, I wonder > if the pipes there are speaking pipes or not. On some instruments, at > least, if you look carefully at the descending sizes of the pipes (on > both sides of the - usually - tallest center pipe), you can discern > that there are pipe length differences from side to side of that > center pipe that would indicate the musical scale is present, and > therefore, the facade pipes ARE speaking pipes. Some facades I've > examined contain an entire 61-note keyboard's worth. Hope this > qualifies me somewhat as a true organ "nut." Chuck    
(back) Subject: Fw: Many thanks... From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 01:10:31 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000A_01BF80BF.70F3D4C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Actually, some facades have both speaking AND non-speaking pipes. Two =3D ways to tell- look for languids in the pipes, and behind the facade look = =3D for tubing to those pipes which speak. I've found this to be a good indicator of the real and fakes. Dummies (the pipes) will very often be used as fillers in facades to =3D keep the geometric design in balance.   Rick   ----- Original Message -----=3D20 From: Charles Wertalik=3D20 To: PipeChat=3D20 Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2000 11:55 PM Subject: Many thanks...     ....to those list members who so kindly supplied the education on the =3D "montre" stop. =3D20   Every time I look at the facade of an organ, I wonder if the pipes there = =3D are speaking pipes or not. On some instruments, at least, if you look =3D carefully at the descending sizes of the pipes (on both sides of the - =3D usually - tallest center pipe), you can discern that there are pipe =3D length differences from side to side of that center pipe that would =3D indicate the musical scale is present, and therefore, the facade pipes =3D ARE speaking pipes. Some facades I've examined contain an entire 61-note = =3D keyboard's worth.   Hope this qualifies me somewhat as a true organ "nut."   Chuck   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000A_01BF80BF.70F3D4C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#800080 face=3D3DCourier>Actually, some facades have = =3D both speaking=3D20 AND non-speaking pipes. Two ways to tell- look for languids in the =3D pipes, and=3D20 behind the facade look for tubing to those pipes which =3D speak.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#800080 face=3D3DCourier>I've found this to be a good = =3D indicator of=3D20 the real and fakes.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#800080 face=3D3DCourier>Dummies (the pipes) will = very =3D often be=3D20 used as fillers in facades to keep the geometric design in =3D balance.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#800080 face=3D3DCourier>Rick</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV style=3D3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----=3D20 <DIV style=3D3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> = <A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:wertzl@earthlink.net" =3D title=3D3Dwertzl@earthlink.net>Charles=3D20 Wertalik</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>To:</B> <A href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org"=3D20 title=3D3Dpipechat@pipechat.org>PipeChat</A> </DIV> <DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 26, 2000 11:55 PM</DIV> <DIV><B>Subject:</B> Many thanks...</DIV></DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>...to those list members who so = kindly =3D supplied the=3D20 education on the "montre" stop.&nbsp; </FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Every time I look at the facade of an = =3D organ, I=3D20 wonder if the pipes there are speaking pipes or not. On some =3D instruments, at=3D20 least, if you look carefully at the descending sizes of the pipes (on =3D both sides=3D20 of the - usually - tallest center pipe), you can discern that there are = =3D pipe=3D20 length differences&nbsp;from side to side of that center pipe that would = =3D   indicate the musical scale is present, and therefore, the facade pipes =3D ARE=3D20 speaking pipes. Some facades I've examined contain an entire 61-note =3D keyboard's=3D20 worth.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Hope this qualifies me somewhat as a = =3D true organ=3D20 "nut."</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Chuck</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000A_01BF80BF.70F3D4C0--      
(back) Subject: Gregorian type font for the computer (X-posed) From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 22:17:45 -0800   My son WONDERED what I was laughing so hard about tonight ...   The Gregorian fonts arrived from St. Meinrad Archabbey today, and I installed them. I was sitting here merrily typing away on the Psalter (they're MUCH easier than Sibelius) when the utter absurdity of the whole thing struck me ... (1) I can WRITE Gregorian neums faster than I can type them on the computer (at least so far), and (2) leave it to the Benedictines to put out a medieval type font that works in Microsoft Word (grin).   Of course, what comes out the other end looks exactly like the Graduale or the Liber Usualis, so that MIGHT be a help to my "duh, what's a quilisma?" seminarians, God love 'em. They actually do VERY well ... they're learning the Exsultet from the neums. My CHOIR reads neums, but they don't seem to retain the melodies as well with Gregorian notation, so I'd just about given up on THAT ... I might try again ... they probably can read the printed neums better than my hand-written ones.   If anybody else NEEDS Gregorian type fonts, they're available on St. Meinrad's web page for $35.   Cheers,   Bud