PipeChat Digest #1283 - Tuesday, February 29, 2000
 
hymns in movies
  by "Robert  Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net>
Re: J S Bach's organ stops
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: hymns in movies
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Re: hymns in movies
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: facades, etc.
  by "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com>
Re: J S Bach's organ stops
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
information sought
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: facades, etc.
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: facades, etc.
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: facades, etc.
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: facades, etc.
  by "Peder" <peder@carg.com>
Worcester MA AGO Event
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Re: J S Bach's organ stops Alan Freed
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: National Shrine Kilgen- BIG Update (x posted)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Many thanks...
  by <Tspiggle@aol.com>
Re: Hymns in Public
  by "Charles Wertalik" <wertzl@earthlink.net>
Re: Hymns in Public
  by "Hugh Drogemuller" <lon.hdrogemuller@wwdc.com>
Re: Hymns in Public
  by <ORGANUT@aol.com>
facades, etc.
  by "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net>
Re: Worcester MA AGO Event
  by <Dm726b@aol.com>
URL oops!
  by "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net>
Re: facades, etc.
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Cavaille_Casavant
  by "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net>
Re: facades, etc.
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
All Hail ...
  by <p.wilson2@juno.com>
 



(back) Subject: hymns in movies From: "Robert Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 06:46:39 -0600  
(back) Subject: Re: J S Bach's organ stops From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:43:25 -0500   > From: Douglas A Campbell <dougcampbell@juno.com> > > Dear Alan, et al. > > I did go and look a this site ! The fact that you have found it "not > funny" is your problem, not the web page owner's ! > Well, not EXACTLY my problem. I haven't even gone to look at it. Don't even remember what it's allegedly about. Too crazy busy this week. Ash Wednesday is sneaking up on us!   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: hymns in movies From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:51:41 EST   Greetings,   In the "new" Titanic film two hymns play roles in the movie. "Nearer My = God to Thee is played up on the deck. However, also on Sunday Morning = Services for the Elite - "Almighty Father, Strong to Save" is sung in the dinning room. With the last phrase, ..." for those in peril on the sea."   All the best,   The_Maitre   (off to the pedal exercises now!)           ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: hymns in movies From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:20:59 -0800   Yeah, we did the "Nearer, My God To Thee" thread awhile back ... "A Night = To Remember" got it right (Horbury); "Titanic" went with the American tune = for American viewers. If it was ANYTHING (and there's some question as to = whether there was music at all), it was undoubtedly Horbury, because White Star = Lines was a British line, and all White Star orchestras used a standard = orchestra book, which included familiar BRITISH hymn-tunes for Ship's Prayers on = Sunday morning (Morning Prayer, led by the Captain). Our American tune, "Bethany" = was probably not IN Hymns Ancient and Modern, the most widely-used hymnal in = Great Britain at the turn of the century.   Naw, I'm not a Titanic fanatic; my son is (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Robert Eversman wrote:   > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > "VEAGUE" wrote: > > Wasn't "Nearer My God To Thee" in the 1950's movie about the Titanic = with > Clifton Webb? > The band on the aft deck played it as the ship was going down bow-first. > > If my mempry serves me well, I recall one of these many old Titanic = movies > (could it be this one?) which not only featured "Nearer My God To Thee" = but > also used the alternate tune "HORBURY" which is quite haunting sung as a > tenor solo in the film. It is in the English Hymnal and one of my = favorite > tunes though a bit tough for a congregation (IMHO). > > I must say I am impressed at everyone's fine memory, either you are all > very very smart or you watch too many movies when you should be busy = with > Mr. Gleason and his thrilling pedal excercises. :-) Just kidding! = Fun > topic. > > Robert Eversman > Mineral Point WI > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: facades, etc. From: "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 09:42:05 -0800 (PST)     I love the dutch sound hoowever. > > bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net > gainesville, florida > > Thanks for sending the spec of the pres orgel.   Now, what do you mean "the sound" - the sound of the pipes or the sound of the dutch pronunciation of the stop names.   And furthermore, while we're at it (pronounce the t's between the words to sound sufficiently British), when does chapter two get put up to read??????? SteveOhmer   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: J S Bach's organ stops From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:17:19 -0500   Doug and Steve, et al.   I sent a post to the list (below) on the 23rd, and it arrived just today (the 28th). Don't know where it's been, and won't worry about it. But = just don't want you think I'm still mulling over THAT issue, when we've gone on to others. I STILL never looked at that website.   Alan   > From: Alan Freed <afreed0904@earthlink.net> > Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 08:43:25 -0500 > To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Subject: Re: J S Bach's organ stops > >> From: Douglas A Campbell <dougcampbell@juno.com> >> >> Dear Alan, et al. >> >> I did go and look a this site ! The fact that you have found it "not >> funny" is your problem, not the web page owner's ! >> > Well, not EXACTLY my problem. I haven't even gone to look at it. Don't > even remember what it's allegedly about. Too crazy busy this week. Ash > Wednesday is sneaking up on us! > > Alan > >    
(back) Subject: information sought From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 13:28:20 -0500   Greetings everyone,   I posted this on OrganChat and got no responses. Maybe the members of PipeChat can help me. On my copy of "A Gothic Cathedral", PRATELLA is written just above "arranged by Powel Weaver". Is PRATELLA the name of the tune or the original composer?   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Re: facades, etc. From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:47:52 -0500 (EST)   >Thanks for sending the spec of the pres orgel. Y'weccum! >Now, what do you mean "the sound" - the > sound of the pipes or the sound of the dutch > pronunciation of the stop names. Yeah! That's it!   >And furthermore, while we're at it (pronounce > the t's between the words to sound sufficiently > British), when does chapter two get put up to > read??????? hehehe IT DON'T!!! Ya gotta subscripe or wait until it's publicated. I may put lil synopses up perojically.   .. .. .. .. .. .. Speaking of Dutch.... I really do enjoy Dutch organs. I like unique sounds (and temperaments), especially the gentle ones.   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida   http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/rohrschok8/OrganMusicLibrary    
(back) Subject: Re: facades, etc. From: "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:23:24 -0600   bruce cornely wrote: > Speaking of Dutch.... I really do enjoy Dutch organs. I like unique > sounds (and temperaments), especially the gentle ones. Well Bruce, I'll share your admiration for the real thing...The Dutch ch= amber organ at the House of Hope in Minnesota was quite charming, if a little r= unny in the sliders. I do have to confess a near-pathological aversion to the imitations one = finds on this side of the pond. The merest sight of words like "Octaaf", "Rugw= erk", or "Scherp" on a North American organ sends shivers down my spine and con= jures up images of gutless (Guttli=DF) neo-barocken screechers wailing about in= to dead rooms. --=20 Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong... A tax is a fine for doing well."  
(back) Subject: Re: facades, etc. From: "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:25:30 -0600   bruce cornely wrote: > hehehe IT DON'T!!! Ya gotta subscripe or wait until it's publicated. > I may put lil synopses up perojically. Y'all don't expect us to cough up any money for this, do you? For the = love of Augustine, we're CHURCH MUSICIANS! Where would we get funds like that? = :) -- Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   "A fine is a tax for doing wrong... A tax is a fine for doing well."  
(back) Subject: Re: facades, etc. From: "Peder" <peder@carg.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 15:36:19 -0600   Work for House of Soap in St. Paul, Minnesota for that money...:) -----Original Message----- From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Monday, February 28, 2000 3:16 PM Subject: Re: facades, etc.     >bruce cornely wrote: >> hehehe IT DON'T!!! Ya gotta subscripe or wait until it's publicated. >> I may put lil synopses up perojically. > Y'all don't expect us to cough up any money for this, do you? For the love >of Augustine, we're CHURCH MUSICIANS! Where would we get funds like = that? :) >-- >Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas >http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/ > >"A fine is a tax for doing wrong... >A tax is a fine for doing well." > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Worcester MA AGO Event From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 16:40:29 -0500   Sat. April 1, Cathedral of St. Paul, Worcester, 9-1, John Schwandt, National AGO Improvisation Competition Winner 1999, covers beginning impr/ techniques used for interludes, hymn harmonizations, and to cover liturgical actions. Sun. April 2, 3pm, John Schwandt recital, Wesley U. Methodist Church, Worcester, Lincoln Square.   Recital no charge Workshop fees Worcester Chapter members - no fee Other Chapter members - $5. Non AGO Chapter attendees $10. No registration necessary.  
(back) Subject: Re: J S Bach's organ stops Alan Freed From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 18:02:19 EST   Alan: You are the wrong Alan. I am the bone - headed Alan that it was directed = to. I was doing a search on a new web brouser for 'pipe organ' when a page = came up that looked like it was a factual account of J S Bach building organs. = It was actually a 'groaner' style joke. I saw only that page and did not = realize it was a joke and was too confused to get it ( Duh!). I got my = knickers in a twist and reported the site here. So while I wipe the egg off my face =   let me say that it actually was quite funny and that if nothing else it generated a few other good ones in this forum.   Yours truly: Alan (the other Alan) Binger  
(back) Subject: Re: National Shrine Kilgen- BIG Update (x posted) From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 19:55:06 EST   OH yes- working on that now in fact.   =3Do)  
(back) Subject: Re: Many thanks... From: <Tspiggle@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:04:38 EST   The pipe length differences from side to side don't necessarily mean anything. Display pipes can have backs that are cut out at the top so two pipes that appear to be the same length from the front can actually speak = at different notes of the scale.  
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns in Public From: "Charles Wertalik" <wertzl@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 21:56:05 -0500   For those who may care (and that probably includes no one), the proper = term to describe a ship sinking bow-first is: "by the head."   Chuck (still the nit-picker)   ---- Original Message ----- From: VEAGUE <dutchorgan@svs.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2000 10:03 PM Subject: Re: Hymns in Public     > Wasn't "Nearer My God To Thee" in the 1950's movie about the Titanic = with > Clifton Webb? > The band on the aft deck played it as the ship was going down bow-first. > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns in Public From: "Hugh Drogemuller" <lon.hdrogemuller@wwdc.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:13:10 -0500   At 21:56 28/02/2000 -0500, Chuck wrote: For those who may care (and that probably includes no one), the proper = term to describe a ship sinking bow-first is: "by the head."   I thought that "head" when used in the context of a ship referred to the same facility as "latrine" in army parlance.   HD    
(back) Subject: Re: Hymns in Public From: <ORGANUT@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:25:29 EST   In a message dated 02/28/2000 9:10:11 PM Central Standard Time, lon.hdrogemuller@wwdc.com writes:   << I thought that "head" when used in the context of a ship referred to = the same facility as "latrine" in army parlance. HD >> It certainly did in the Navy I was in.   Later, Phil L.  
(back) Subject: facades, etc. From: "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:59:29 -0500   Well, seeing that everybody is still putting their two cents' worth in, I might as well add mine.   We might as well take the French Great (Grande Orgue) principal designations one step further and mention the appropriate names at each length. We have already established the fact that the 8' Principal is usually called "Montre", meaning "show", sometimes whether or not the rank is actually in the facade. The 4' designation for a principal is usually "Praestant". Above that, you will quite often find the 2' Principal on the Grande Orgue designated as "Doublette".   Recently, some have scowled at the fact that American and Canadian organs use different languages to designate stops, instead of exclusively English, (except for in Quebec, where I believe that Casavant Freres Ltee uses mostly French stop names now), and that other countries use stop designations using the language of the land. (I am not implying that this is the practise of all organ builders in Quebec. There are other very fine ones; I just don't know if they adhere to an "all French policy" when naming stops. You would think it should be up to the customer!) Anyway, I suppose there are two schools of thought on that one. I can see the thought of of using the language of the land as being valid, but I personally like the idea of using other languages to designate organ stops, for a few reasons. If you feel, as I do, that the pipe organ is one of the most artistic and creative things around, not only musically but aesthetically also, (and probably most people on Pipechat would), then I think you would agree that English stop designations sometimes just don't cut it. (Notice I said sometimes). One instance where I believe this would come in handy is when you have two stops on an organ of the same type, but which are either voiced or scaled differently or have a different sound. If, for instance, you had in one division of the organ, a very bright, fiery trumpet, you could designate that one as "Trompette", to indicate a bright, fiery French sounding reed. Then if you had one in another division that was a little less forward, it could be called the old english "Trumpet", to distinguish between the two. Besides, what other name would you give to a "Trompette en Chamade"? Given the type of stop it is, "Horizontal Trumpet" just doesn't cut it! On the other hand, I do think that we need to use much thought and take care when we name organ stops. Sometimes I can't believe the liberties some builders and/or restorers have taken in naming stops, especially ones that are borrowed or unified! Any more thoughts on the subject?   Many thanks to the guys who offered a reply to my recent request about Saint Saens Organ Symphony. If anyone else is interested, I have found that it will be performed in Toronto on April 19 & 22 at Massey Hall (along with some other stuff). Web page is http://www.www.masseyhall.com/masseyhall/concert/concert01.asp?M=3D4&Y=3D20= 00   Dave C. London, Ont.        
(back) Subject: Re: Worcester MA AGO Event From: <Dm726b@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:07:53 EST   Hi Judy,   Thanks for the announcement about the workshop and recital. What is the organ there I seem to be having a senior moment and can't remember?   Dave McPeak  
(back) Subject: URL oops! From: "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:12:06 -0500   Sorry about the page link mistake for Massey hall in my last submission. Too many www's! The correct link is http://www.masseyhall.com/masseyhall/concert/concert01.asp?M=3D4&Y=3D2000   Dave C. London, Ont.      
(back) Subject: Re: facades, etc. From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:28:31 -0500 (EST)     =A0>...I'll share your admiration for the real > thing...The Dutch chamber organ at the > House of Hope in Minnesota was quite > charming, if a little runny in the sliders. Ouch! Sounds painful!! ;-) I guess the closest I've gotten to real dutch sound is the Flentrop at St. Anne's Atlanta. I assume he was building "in style", and the room is delightful. HolyTrinity seems a little more aggressive than my experience with dutch instruments, although this has been for the most part on recordings. My impression has been, gentle, but full and rich and definitely not screechy. The reeds are definitely not dutch!   >I do have to confess a near-pathological > aversion to the imitations one finds on this > side of the pond. It's really a shame that we can't simply label all instruments offered in this style as experimental and to be replaced or disregarded.   > The merest sight of words like "Octaaf", > "Rugwerk", or "Scherp" on a North American > organ sends shivers down my spine and > conjures up images of gutless (Guttli=DF) > neo-barocken screechers wailing about into > dead rooms. hehehe not to mention what it does to your poor ears!--   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida   http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/rohrschok8/OrganMusicLibrary    
(back) Subject: Cavaille_Casavant From: "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 23:46:12 -0500   To Michael Williamson, Bud, and anyone else who is interested:   According to my handbook from the 1999 OHS Convention in Montreal, Jean-Louis Coignet has been Tonal Director at Casavant Freres Ltee since 1981. Before that it was (the now late) Gerhard Brunzema from 1972-1979; Lawrence Phelps from 1958-1972, and Stephen Stoot from 1933-1958.   Dave C. London, Ont.      
(back) Subject: Re: facades, etc. From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 29 Feb 2000 00:35:57 -0500 (EST)     >We might as well take the French Great > (Grande Orgue) principal designations one > step further and mention the appropriate > names at each length. 8' Principal is usually called Montre 4' principal is usually Praestant 2' Principal is usually Doublette >If you feel, as I do, that the pipe organ is one > of the most artistic and creative things > around, not only musically but aesthetically > also, (and probably most people on Pipechat > would), then I think you would agree that > English stop designations sometimes just > don't cut it. (Notice I said sometimes). Although for a while in England in 18th and 19th century instruments the name assumed pitch: Open Diapason =3D 8 Principal - 4 Fifteenth or Super Octave =3D 2 other stops, as well, assumed pitches: mutations, of course, nazard, tierce, larigot Violina =3D 4 Flute =3D 4 (unison flutes had other descriptives) Piccolo =3D 2 Flautina =3D 2   >One instance where I believe this would come > in handy is when you have two stops on an > organ of the same type, but which are either > voiced or scaled differently or have a different > sound. If, for instance, you had in one division > of the organ, a very bright, fiery trumpet, you > could designate that one as "Trompette", to > indicate a bright, fiery French sounding reed. Ernest Skinner simply used French Trumpet, although the results were sometimes questionable. ;-) I personally prefer to have more strict adherence to names indicating or describing pipe construction: Rohrflote, Chimney Flute Spitzflute, Spire Flute .... etc regardless of how many of them are in the organ or how much they vary in volume.   >Then if you had one in another division that > was a little less forward... I would think that the divisional concept would give the indication of character of the stops rather than changing names. The exception would be with imitative voices, particularly reeds and strings which imitate either other instruments or national style: Trumpet, Trompete, Trompette, Cornopean, Tromba all are distinctive variatons in sound. Oboe, Hautbois, Oboe Horn.... Schalmei, Chalmeau, Shawm, i believe are related but nationally different; Salicional, Viola, Viole de Gambe, Gambe...   >some builders and/or restorers have taken in > naming stops, especially ones that are > borrowed or unified! Although I don't particularly agree with the unification concept, I have played an organ with a unit Dolcan labeled Dolcan 8, Dolcan 4, Dolcan 2-2/3, Dolcan 2, Dolcan 1-3/5. Although honest, it didn't make for a particularly attractive stop layout on the console. However, on the same organ, the unit flute was 16 Bourdon, 8 Gedeckt, 4 Flute d' Amour with the same flute designated as 16 Lieblich Gedeckt in the pedal organ, most likely to distinguish it from the independent 16 Bourdon. Although not totally honest, it did give me the impression that I was playing a "real" organ, as opposed to an Allen TC-4: Diapason 8, Flute 8, String 8, Octave 4, Flute 4, String 4... etc.   The 1995 A David Moore 1/9 at First Presbyterian (Iona Chapel), Gainesville FL, uses no number designations: Prestant Stopped Flute Octave Flute Fifteenth Bass Fifteenth Treble Sesquialtera II Treble Cromorne Bass Cromorne Treble Subbass (or Bourdon, I'm not sure which)   The 1994 Visser-Rowland at Holy Trinity GnvFL, uses Dutch nomenclature, but the names are functional.   Yet another reason to be anxious for the arrival of the new First Presbyterian Fisk!! ;-)   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida   http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/rohrschok8/OrganMusicLibrary    
(back) Subject: All Hail ... From: <p.wilson2@juno.com> Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2000 22:16:59 -0800   Hi Bruce -   Can you tell me what program you used to write All Hail ...? I downloaded it, but can't seem to convert it to a text suitable for printing. The copy I printed from your Web site is fine, but I want to be ready for the next installment.   Shalom, Preston p.wilson2@juno.com