PipeChat Digest #1235 - Sunday, January 23, 2000
 
NYC area opportunity: Gurrelieder at Carnegie Hall (partially off-topic) 
  by "Pat Maimone" <patmai@juno.com>
Crescendo pedal order?
  by "Shirley" <pnst@snip.net>
Re: Crescendo pedal order?
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Crescendo pedal order?
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
re: Crescendo pedal
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Crescendo pedal order?
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Edward Shippen Barnes: Solemn Prelude
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersv.edu>
Re: Crescendo pedal order?
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Edward Shippen Barnes: Solemn Prelude
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: Crescendo pedal order?
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Crescendo pedal order?
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Crescendo pedal order?
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
5th Ave Pres. (NYC)
  by <Oboe32@aol.com>
 




(back) Subject: NYC area opportunity: Gurrelieder at Carnegie Hall (partially off-topic) (X-post) From: "Pat Maimone" <patmai@juno.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 11:28:17 -0500   Begging David and Pete's forgiveness if there is no organ part...   An opportunity for those List members in the metropolitan New York area..   Schoenberg's [Romantic, according to the WQXR radio ads] "Gurrelieder" will be presented for the first time in at least two decades at Carnegie Hall Monday night, January 24. Simon Rattle conducts the Philadelphia Orchestra, soloists and chorus of 250 voices..   I have one excellent seat in the orchestra which I cannot use, .. (on topic..) since I shall start a new interim position as Organist-Choirmaster rehearsing the Cadet Chapel Choir at West Point that evening.   Please reply privately ASAP if you are interested to <patmai@ juno.com> and at work <yp6867@usma.edu> where I shall be early this afternoon. To be safe, also send word to <patmai@erols.com> . First come, first served.. Caveat emptor: I hear that we may have another snow storm Monday...   Pat Maimone III/57 Aelian-Skinner/Moller/Gress-Miles Post Chapel, West Point October 1975-present 914-938-2959     ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.  
(back) Subject: Crescendo pedal order? From: "Shirley" <pnst@snip.net> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:08:44 -0500   Hi, folks -   Please forgive the cross-posting, but I think there are minds on both = lists that would be able to answer this for me.   I'm looking for "programming" the order of stops in a crescendo pedal. Logic says to go from the quietest to the loudest in adding stops, but = that may not be common practice.   Anybody know?   TIA. --Shirley    
(back) Subject: Re: Crescendo pedal order? From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 10:28:55 -0800   Depending on how many levels you have, here's how I normally do it:   Most crescendo pedals bring on ALL the 8' couplers as the first stage ... = you may or may not want that. Some folks prefer to have the crescendo WITHIN individual divisions and leave the couplers to the Full Organ button. That = also avoids having whatever you have drawn on the stop-rail suddenly couple together at the beginning of the crescendo.   I prefer to have the crescendo go all the way to full organ, as it's = sometime more convenient to hit the crescendo pedal than hunt for the toe stud.   softest 16' stop in Pedal softest 8' stop in Swell softest 8' stop in Choir softest 8' stop in Great   here you can do one of two things, depending on how "orchestral" you want = the crescendo:   next 16' stop in Pedal (if there is one) next 8' stop in Swell next 8' stop in Choir next 8' stop in Great   OR   Cancel celestes and tremulants   softest 4' stop in Swell softest 4' stop in Choir softest 4' stop in Great   and so forth, up to as loud as you want to get ... the order of stops is dictated by sound, not necessarily by division, but on most organs with an unenclosed Choir, it would be Swell-Choir-Great; with an enclosed Choir, = it might be Choir-Swell-Great.   I leave the sub and super couplers off the crescendo pedal, leaving them = for the full organ button (if at all). On a small romantic organ without a lot = of upperwork, you might need them in the crescendo.   You might also consider leaving the high-pitched mixtures (if you have = any) out of the crescendo. It's basically an accompanimental tool, if used very carefully and very sparingly.   Cheers,   Bud       Shirley wrote:   > Hi, folks - > > Please forgive the cross-posting, but I think there are minds on both = lists > that would be able to answer this for me. > > I'm looking for "programming" the order of stops in a crescendo pedal. > Logic says to go from the quietest to the loudest in adding stops, but = that > may not be common practice. > > Anybody know? > > TIA. > --Shirley > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Crescendo pedal order? From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:34:37 -0500 (EST)   I would recommend programming your Crescendo pedal soft to loud, but not including celestes. Consider what you will be using the crescendo pedal for, and how you would want this gradual build-up to work. Consider, for instance, whether you want the Swell Hautbois or other reeds to come on before a mixture or even a strident 2' principal.   My preference is unison and light 4' build-up, then completing the principal chorus with a light reed, and then the mixtures.   At this point the addition of the Tutti completes the build-up. It is my preference to have ONLY reeds and possibly mixtures on Tutti, making it somewhat of a ventil for reed chorus.   Bear in mind, however, that there is no absolute rule that ALL of the stops on the organ need to be included on the crescendo pedal, although I've seen this throughout my career.   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: re: Crescendo pedal From: "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 13:42:47 -0500 (EST)   Bud's mention of the couplers brought to mind that I used the crescendo pedal as a quick and easy way to couple the manuals together, since Swell to Great was first, then Choir to Great, then the manual to pedal couplers. Something like this can be very handy. I've alwys preferred to have the couplers all activated first so that the crescendo is all done on the Great. Bud is right in classifying the Crescendo pedal as an accompaniment device. It is very helpful if set up with this in mind.   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Crescendo pedal order? From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:02:50 -0500   Softest to loudest is what I've always done, Shirley.   Rick      
(back) Subject: Edward Shippen Barnes: Solemn Prelude From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersv.edu> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:30:55 -0400     Just curious: I'm playing the Barnes "Solemn Prelude" tomorrow. = Does anyone else play this piece these days?   Cordially,     Karl E. Moyer   Lancaster PA  
(back) Subject: Re: Crescendo pedal order? From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 14:29:03   At 01:08 PM 1/22/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >I'm looking for "programming" the order of stops in a crescendo pedal. >Logic says to go from the quietest to the loudest in adding stops, but that >may not be common practice.<snip>   Well, opinions abound, to be sure, but I've found that crescendo programming should follow a course of good ensemble building, not merely heaping stops top of each other. Eliminated from the lineup should be all c=E9lestes, solo reeds or flutes, or anything else that would spoil a good ensemble. Basically, the first step should draw pp 8' stops on each manual, the next step possibly adding its counterpart 4', then knocking off the pp 8' and adding a more robust 8', and so on, gradually increasing the dynamic of each division, while at the same time gradually adding intermanual couplers to the great, until a near-tutti is obtained at wide-open position. I prefer this, since the organist can call up the true full organ using the sforzando piston or stud. Remember to build ensembles vertically, as well as horizontally.   I remember one time dealing with a M=F6ller that someone had programmed to call up the swell c=E9leste and flutes as a first step, and called up a krummhorn as the on the choir!! Special combinations and soft solo voices such as that are better left to a divisional piston, IMHO.   In practice, I only think I've used the crescendo on about three different works, one coming to mind as being the Sowerby "Symphony in G". At most other times, the thing just gets in the way and causes unpredictable results should your foot inadvertantly knock the heel of the crescendo shoe, causing the first step or so to come on when you don't need or want it! Happily, many good builders equip the console with a crescendo pedal warning light, to ward off such fuax pas.   Why not post a specification of the organ in question, and we can take a stab at mapping out the best crescendo pattern? Also, you need to know how many segments your crescendo pedal is equipped for; I've seen as few as 6 and as many as 40.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Edward Shippen Barnes: Solemn Prelude From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 15:40:43 -0800   Karl,   I don't know the piece, but am always on the look out for good stuff for preludes ... is it especially nice? About how long is it?   Jason   > > Just curious: I'm playing the Barnes "Solemn Prelude" tomorrow. = Does > anyone else play this piece these days? >  
(back) Subject: Re: Crescendo pedal order? From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 18:20:45 -0600   Shirley wrote: > > Hi, folks - > > Please forgive the cross-posting, but I think there are minds on both = lists > that would be able to answer this for me. > > I'm looking for "programming" the order of stops in a crescendo pedal. > Logic says to go from the quietest to the loudest in adding stops, but = that > may not be common practice.   That is, in fact, common practice. It may be possible to switch stops off as well as on with modern solid state systems, but with most of them you are stuck with what you put on until the end. Thus, you normally wouldn't want to have Celestes on anywhere. Also, you would probably want to put on a few couplers at the beginning -- e.g. Choir to Great, Swell to Great, Swell to Pedal, and to couple stops from other manuals before starting on the Great. If there are any fat flutes which are going to ruin the clarity of the chorus later on, you might want to add them later. Tierces, etc. would also fit into this category. Also, don't go all the way on the crescendo pedal -- stop at ff and leave fff for the sforz. It occurs to me that it might be fun if you posted the specification of the organ on the list and then we could all make our suggestions as to what order to put on the stops. Does your organ have more than one alternative programmable crescendo? If so, we could also have fun suggesting different approaches for the alternatives.   John Speller St. Louis, Mo.  
(back) Subject: Re: Crescendo pedal order? From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 16:42:09 -0800       "John L. Speller" wrote:   > (snip)   > If there are any fat flutes which are > going to ruin the clarity of the chorus later on   pack 'em up and send 'em to St. Matthew's (grin)! I just LUV fat flutes = (grin). Every organ should have a fat open, harmonic or double flute on every = division (grin). How you gonna play Vierne, etc. otherwise?   Also, most of y'all are talkin' like the crescendo pedal is a device that = you apply "classic" principles to ... ain't so! It's a service-playing and ACCOMPANIMENTAL device, for the most part (except for Reger pieces that = call for the rollschweller, and even there, most American crescendo pedals can't be partially opened and then cancelled by a piston and brought on later like = a rollschweller).   When Messiaen had La Trinite elecrocuted and the American-style console installed, he DID set up the crescendo pedal to bring on successive groups = of stops by family and pitch from softest to loudest, as I recall ... he also = had it set to go all the way to full organ, if I'm not mistaken. The details were = in a Diapason article not too terribly long ago. He must have used it for = improvising .... I don't recall any Messiaen works calling for the crescendo pedal, = doubtless because his was one of very few organs in France that HAD one.   Here's a thought: the American romantic school (Sowerby, etc.) DID call = for extensive use of the crescendo, BUT ... the romantic organs they played = could make an absolutely SEAMLESS crescendo, both on the 8's WITHIN a division = and in the organ as a whole ... play a Skinner or a good Austin from that period = of any size and you'll see what I mean ... with 6, 8, 10 or more unison ranks per division, they could DO that, and the effect was STUNNING. It's a whole = lot LESS stunning on a typical neo-classic organ, where you hear the jumps and = bweeps and blarps and gaps.   Cheers,   Bud, the unrepentant romantic    
(back) Subject: Re: Crescendo pedal order? From: <DRAWKNOB@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 19:43:59 EST   In a message dated 1/22/00 12:07:25 PM Central Standard Time, = pnst@snip.net writes:   << I'm looking for "programming" the order of stops in a crescendo pedal. Logic says to go from the quietest to the loudest in adding stops, but = that may not be common practice. >>   Generally that is the rule of thumb.... start off with the softest stop = on the organ and build up from there.   John  
(back) Subject: 5th Ave Pres. (NYC) From: <Oboe32@aol.com> Date: Sat, 22 Jan 2000 22:02:23 EST   Hey All, I was in NYC last week on my Sunday off. I stopped in at a few places, including St. Thomas, which is rather close to 5th Ave = presbyterian where Tom Tewwell is the pastor. He comes down and preaches at Ocean Grove =   during the Summer and normaly manages to wow everybody. At any rate, the = room at 5th Ave Pres. is not that big, and yet the organ seems massive, at = least from the console. I didn't get to hear it, but I did go up and checkout = the console. It has 4 32's and a battery of solo reeds, and a Wicks console. I =   was curious who the original builder was, if everything is indeed real pipework, and what is the program like at that church?   -Pete Isherwood