PipeChat Digest #1240 - Wednesday, January 26, 2000
 
Re: RC standards
  by <Steskinner@aol.com>
Re: RC standards
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: The Church after Vatican II
  by <JDeCaria@aol.com>
ORGAN POWER CONCERT (X-posted)
  by "Dan Miller" <dmiller@rodgers.rain.com>
RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Music Search
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Re: RC standards in San Diego County
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
"virile" organs
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Fw: "virile" organs
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re:  Music of Henry Smart
  by <Sepp123@aol.com>
Re: "virile" organs
  by "Adrianne Schutt" <maybe@pipcom.com>
Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance
  by <JDeCaria@aol.com>
Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
ALL READ!!! Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: ALL READ!!! Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance
  by "Pat MacKenzie" <patmackenzie@powersurfr.com>
Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Fw: ALL READ!!! Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance
  by <JDeCaria@aol.com>
 



(back) Subject: Re: RC standards From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:05:40 EST   In a message dated 1/25/2000 12:02:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, Quilisma@socal.rr.com writes:   << I'm no apologist for the ANGLICANS, but when I was working for Rodgers, = we did a survey of churches in the San Diego area ... all but two or three = Episcopal churches had pipe organs; three (possibly four) RC churches (out of HUNDREDS) had pipe organs, and one of those was a recycled Wurlitzer theatre organ. =   And San Diego is ALSO a major metropolitan area.>>   I was involved in procuring two fine organs in RC churches in the 1990's. =   One at the Mission Basilica (2/17) and one at St. Michael's in Poway = (3/~35). Things are looking up! <>   Frank Brownstead is (was?) at St Paul the Apostle, and has a wonderful program, including the Paulist Choristers, directed by Dana Marsh. Paul Salamonivich is/was at St Basil on Wilshire and St Charles Borromeo in = North Hollywood.   Steven Skinner First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA  
(back) Subject: Re: RC standards From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:33:31 -0500   St. Francis DeSales in Paducah, Ky. is glad to have their Reuter up and playing- after 20-years down-time.. The choir, organist, and organ all = work great together. The parishioners were especially glad to hear it again, as I've been told remminiscent stories of them remembering hearing it. The only person NOT happy with its' come-back was the guitar player. SHE wanted to hear and play her string box!   Rick      
(back) Subject: Re: The Church after Vatican II From: <JDeCaria@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 08:43:51 EST   I agree with Charles Wertalik, this list is about PIPE ORGANS, and is not = a forum for BASHING the Catholic Church. There appear to be some very bitter =   "pope-free" people, who have been making ignorant, ill-informed, and = immature comments that obviously stem from deep-seated feelings of hostility. While = no one can claim the Roman Church to be infallible in it's practices (not = even the Roman Church itself claims this), this is NOT the place to engage in = such brash "pope-bashing".   ENOUGH   Joseph DeCaria, Toronto  
(back) Subject: ORGAN POWER CONCERT (X-posted) From: "Dan Miller" <dmiller@rodgers.rain.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 10:26:36 PST   <color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>For any of you in the Los Angeles = area:     </color>On Friday, February 4 at 8 pm, Rodgers and Roland are hosting a = free ORGAN POWER concert, open to the public. Check out the ads in the LA Times and the Orange County Register. Featured at the Wilshire Ebell Theater will be Hector Olivera, Rosemary Bailey, Dan Miller, Tony Fenelon, = Don Lewis, and Yuri Tachibana playing the Rodgers 960, Rodgers Trillium 837, Roland AT-90R, and Roland VK-77. The finale will be all performers = on 6 organs playing the William Tell Overture! Tickets (free) can be obtained = by calling (800) 386-7575, x 1234. Tickets (free) are already going fast, so = call early to get yours. For more information, visit www.rolandus.com     If you are attending the NAMM 2000 Convention, please visit the Rodgers booth, it will be great to meet you. We'll have daily performances on = the hour and half hour. Hear the talents of Hector Olivera, David Pettit, Rodney Barbour, Dr. Chris Howard, Dan Miller, and Rob Richards (who will accompany short Silent Films and play TO music). Check the Performance Schedule posted daily at the Rodgers booth.     Best regards,   Dan Miller   Product Manager, Rodgers Instruments LLC   dmiller@rodgers.rain.com<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param>    
(back) Subject: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 13:40:03 EST   Greetings Members,   It has been interesting to see the amount of "chat" this topic has created =   and I thought I would refine some things which I said earlier. In my case, rumors had been started by two members of the congregation - both had no musical background what so ever. They were attempting to = create a committee (behind the pastors back) to remove me. Thier option was to place themselves into the position of "Music Director(s)" and run the = music program with I quote, "Music that is not so damn loud or aggressive and virile sounding. Music that is soft and conveys the loving presence of the =   Holy Spirit. We don't want this new music like, "Sing Praise to The Lord" and "I Heard the Voice of Jesus Say" we want "traditional" music like = "Sing to the Mountains" and "Be not Affraid". We don't want the organ -(too virile) we want a guitarist or two perhaps because it is a big room. = (Seats 1800). And you Mr. Johnson don't sing into the microphone loud enough - you're voice should be about 4-5 times louder than the organ - you claim = to be a professional musician - you should know this!" I end quote.   Yes there are many people in my congregation that do know good music and they support it as well. However they are not the loud spoken ones - the ignorant ones have loud mouths and love to shout thier opinions to all who =   will hear them.   As far as relevance to pipechat - the bashing of the RC church is not good = - heck I am a 29 yr veteran of the RC church and wouldn't change! However - most of us here are playing the organ because we play one in a church. And =   to keep on playing the organ we must continue playing for a church. (Excluding the members who have house orgue's) Therefore - I think that relations between us and churches is very important to discussion and it = is this very discussion which most Organ Groups wishto avoid! The problem = will not go away by us hiding our heads in the sand! This topic deserves disccusion not crabbing but honest discussion and ideas on changing for = the better the place where we practice our craft. We know the RC world and other denominations are becomming nay impossible to work for. It would = seem that the majority on RC's (Mostly non-vocal) will not complain about the poor music or Liturgy. The vocal minority is determined to ruin it for = them and us. Let us discuss some ideas to make the organ again a vocal = majority. This is my challenge to the members - Let's get some ideas on making our craft a desired music form once again, not just in cathedrals but in the every day RC parish. Can we do it?   All the best, The Maitre ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Music Search From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:00:53 EST   Greetings All,   I am looking for an organ selection here:   "Nun komm',der Heiden Heiland" by Anton Heiller ed. Monika Henking   last published by Ludwig Doblinger Vienna, Austria 1985   any one have a score they might be willing to part with?   Private Responses are fine.   THANKS TO ALL   The Maitre ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: RC standards in San Diego County From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:05:26 -0800       Steskinner@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 1/25/2000 12:02:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, > Quilisma@socal.rr.com writes: > > << I'm no apologist for the ANGLICANS, but when I was working for = Rodgers, we > did > a survey of churches in the San Diego area ... all but two or three = Episcopal > churches had pipe organs; three (possibly four) RC churches (out of > HUNDREDS) > had pipe organs, and one of those was a recycled Wurlitzer theatre = organ. > And San > Diego is ALSO a major metropolitan area.>> > > I was involved in procuring two fine organs in RC churches in the = 1990's. > One at the Mission Basilica (2/17) and one at St. Michael's in Poway = (3/~35).   St. Michael's burned, but I forget when ... was this a new organ for the = new church that replaced the one that burned?   > > Things are looking up! > > <> > > Frank Brownstead is (was?) at St Paul the Apostle, and has a wonderful > program, including the Paulist Choristers, directed by Dana Marsh. Paul > Salamonivich is/was at St Basil on Wilshire and St Charles Borromeo in = North > Hollywood.   DUH! Senior moment, again ...   > > > Steven Skinner > First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant > Erie, PA >   On the other hand, Mission San Luis Rey SOLD their Beckerath and got an = Allen because the priest was "tired" of the Beckerath, which now resides in the Immaculata, where it is TOTALLY inadequate (sigh).   Lyle Blackinton has built a couple of good organs for RC churches ... Our = Mother of Confidence in Clairemont and San Rafel in Rancho Bernardo ... but the = msgr. at Mother of Confidence is so nutzoid that he can't keep an organist, which = is a shame, because it's an excellent room as well.   A local hobbyist has built a 3-? for Our Lady of Grace in Golden Hill ... = I haven't been down to see it yet.   Jerry Witt gave St. Brigid's in Pacific Beach a 3-manual Ott, then = promptly retired ... I don't know if it was because of the controversy the organ = caused ... the congregation HATES it (but that's a weird congregation anyway). He = also gave Prince of Peace Abbey in Oceanside an organ (another Ott?) ... I've not = heard either. AND he gave Founder's Chapel at USD a LOVELY little one-manual Ott = with a VERY Italian 8' Principal.   But GBOrgan is selling Allens to RC churches by the truckload ... (grin = ... he's an old friend of mine). The little tracker at Nuestra Senora de Guadalupe = (?) in Pacific Beach is gone, replaced by an Allen.   The ACTION is in North County, where they're building churches by the = bucket-full, but they're mostly putting in Allens, and a few Rodgers combos.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: "virile" organs From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 11:09:59 -0800   Honest criticism is not bashing ... we don't live in a perfect world, in = or out of the RC church (grin).   But the rest of the post reminded me of a funny story ... when I installed = the Rodgers in the local Metropolitan Community Church in San Diego, the women = got all up in arms about it because it was a "phallic symbol of male = patriarchy and domination" (N.B. - it didn't HAVE any pipes, so I don't know where they = got the "phallic" part ... grin!). Go figure ...   Cheers,   Bud            
(back) Subject: Fw: "virile" organs From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 14:50:04 -0500   Musta ben the woid 'organ', Bud   ----- Original Message ----- From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 2:09 PM Subject: "virile" organs     > Honest criticism is not bashing ... we don't live in a perfect world, in or out > of the RC church (grin). > > But the rest of the post reminded me of a funny story ... when I = installed the > Rodgers in the local Metropolitan Community Church in San Diego, the = women got > all up in arms about it because it was a "phallic symbol of male patriarchy and > domination" (N.B. - it didn't HAVE any pipes, so I don't know where they got the > "phallic" part ... grin!). Go figure ... > > Cheers, > > Bud > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: Music of Henry Smart From: <Sepp123@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:52:18 EST   There is a "Postlude, in D" by Henry Smart in an out-of-print collection called "Thirty Organ Pieces for use in Christian Science Churches", edited = by Walter Young, published by Oliver Ditson.   When a bass in my choir said he wanted me to play for his wedding next = month and that he wanted Henry Smart's Postlude in D for the recessional my = second thought was 'Where am I going to find that?' My first thought had to do = with airfares* to Europe since he's getting married in a town near Basel. = Anyway, I discovered I already had a piece by that name in the aforementioned = volume, and after listening to a 25 year old record of his (Francis Jackson at = York Minster) I ascertained that this was the Postlude in D he wanted. It's a = fun piece...sounds kind of Mendelssohnian until the last page.   Joe McConathy Fort Collins, Colorado   *Round trip to London on British Airways turned out to be $341, and the = groom is paying half... couldn't pass up a deal like that!  
(back) Subject: Re: "virile" organs From: "Adrianne Schutt" <maybe@pipcom.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:52:14 -0800   At 11:09 AM 1/26/2000 -0800, Bud wrote: >(N.B. - it didn't HAVE any pipes, so I don't know where they got the >"phallic" part ... grin!). Easy.... both inspire "mine's bigger than yours" complexes. ;->   Have fun! Ad ;->      
(back) Subject: Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance From: <JDeCaria@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:27:32 EST   Once again, I have to agree with Erik. We, as organists must ALL WORK = TOGETHER, accross denominational lines, and stop this petty partisan = bickering if our craft is to survive the 20th century. If all the talent = got together and brainstormed, I'm sure we could come up with some great = ideas that would enhance our profession. As for those "pope-less" (add = your derogatory, sectarian insult here) list members who would continue to = engage in the bashing or non-constructive criticism of any one particular = denomination, I think I speak for all list members when I say YOU HAVE NO = PLACE ON THIS LIST. TAKE YOUR CHILDISH RANTING AND RAVING ELSEWNERE.   Joseph DeCaria      
(back) Subject: Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:58:24 -0500   > From: JDeCaria@aol.com > > I think I speak for all list members when I say YOU HAVE NO PLACE ON = THIS > LIST. TAKE YOUR CHILDISH RANTING AND RAVING ELSEWNERE.   Well, Joseph, I'll allow that you speak for me. But I think your brush might be a bit wide. I kind of think that some things you call childish ranting and raving might NOT be. When it is, I'm with you. But I = wouldn't want MY denomination (nonRoman) to be above honest, decent criticism; I think it's possible to be gently critical of one's own denomination, and somebody else's too. I'm probably sensitive about my group--and I seem to recall that you are, about yours, too. And that's OK. But neither of us should allow his sensitivity to make us TOO hyper-defensive. (Not saying you are, and I haven't kept track of this thread enough to quote chapter = and verse either way.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: ALL READ!!! Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 17:04:56 -0600   OK Folks,   I am going to step in here on this thread. I have been afraid that it was going to turn into this but was hoping that it would be kept civil. I guess there are a couple that really get upset whenever the R.C. church is mentioned at all about the state of music in many of their churches.   Both Bud and Erik have made some good points in their postings and I have to agree with what they have written. And I think that it is very relevant to those people that strive to work in the R.C. church for good music. And as Erik pointed out since for many to follow their calling of playing the organ they have to be able to discuss what is happening in the churches they serve. I have no problem with that.   I DO, however, Have problems with someone posting the following:   >As for those "pope-less" (add your derogatory, sectarian insult >here) list members who would continue to engage in the bashing or >non-constructive criticism of any one particular denomination, I >think I speak for all list members when I say YOU HAVE NO PLACE ON >THIS LIST. TAKE YOUR CHILDISH RANTING AND RAVING ELSEWNERE.   From what I have read, I have not seen anything that I would call "bashing" of one particular denomination. And one person DOESN'T speak for the whole list. There are only two people that can call something off-topic and that is either Peter or myself. The above, to me, constitutes FLAMING and WILL NOT be tolerated!!   I am sure, no, not sure but I KNOW having been around in church music for many years, that the same problems exist in many of the different denominations, it just happened that it was an R.C. church where this problem appeared with Scott.   The next person that comes out with a statement like the above will be removed from the list IMMEDIATELY without any recourse. Sorry to be so strong about this but as the List Owners, Peter and i are the ones to make a decision not a member of the list.   David   **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org 850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: Re: ALL READ!!! Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance From: "Pat MacKenzie" <patmackenzie@powersurfr.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 16:38:41 -0700   Thanks David and Peter, You moderate a great list here - and now I can see why. Having dropped off of several lists in the past because the moderator(s) declined to enforce the standards of the list, I really appreciate this post. I enjoy the informative postings and the give and take of opinion and viewpoint of the many members of this community. One of the delights for me is to see how organists from such a wide spectrum of interests and philosophical and/or religious beliefs approach their art and their lives. When the emotions = get too out of hand, though, they seem to become the driving force of a = thread. I'm glad you've stepped in on this one. Pat MacKenzie, Edmonton, Alberta. ----- Original Message ----- From: Administrator <admin@pipechat.org> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 4:04 PM Subject: ALL READ!!! Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance     > OK Folks, > > I am going to step in here on this thread. I have been afraid that > it was going to turn into this but was hoping that it would be kept > civil. I guess there are a couple that really get upset whenever the > R.C. church is mentioned at all about the state of music in many of > their churches. > > Both Bud and Erik have made some good points in their postings and I > have to agree with what they have written. And I think that it is > very relevant to those people that strive to work in the R.C. church > for good music. And as Erik pointed out since for many to follow > their calling of playing the organ they have to be able to discuss > what is happening in the churches they serve. I have no problem with > that. > > I DO, however, Have problems with someone posting the following: > > >As for those "pope-less" (add your derogatory, sectarian insult > >here) list members who would continue to engage in the bashing or > >non-constructive criticism of any one particular denomination, I > >think I speak for all list members when I say YOU HAVE NO PLACE ON > >THIS LIST. TAKE YOUR CHILDISH RANTING AND RAVING ELSEWNERE. > > From what I have read, I have not seen anything that I would call > "bashing" of one particular denomination. And one person DOESN'T > speak for the whole list. There are only two people that can call > something off-topic and that is either Peter or myself. The above, > to me, constitutes FLAMING and WILL NOT be tolerated!! > > I am sure, no, not sure but I KNOW having been around in church music > for many years, that the same problems exist in many of the different > denominations, it just happened that it was an R.C. church where this > problem appeared with Scott. > > The next person that comes out with a statement like the above will > be removed from the list IMMEDIATELY without any recourse. Sorry to > be so strong about this but as the List Owners, Peter and i are the > ones to make a decision not a member of the list. > > David > > **************************************** > David Scribner > Co-Owner / Technical Administrator > PipeChat > > http://www.pipechat.org > 850-478-9635 > mailto:david@blackiris.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 15:40:18 -0800   I gave thirty years of my LIFE to the RC church, had two beautiful music = programs DEMOLISHED by IGNORANT, ARROGANT priests, had hot coffee thrown = at me by same, the organ turned off in the middle of the postlude because = the celebrant didn't like what I was playing, etc. etc. etc. ... oh, I = forgot to mention ... I was sexually molested by an RC priest when I was = 19. I HAVE PORTFOLIO HERE AND I'LL SAY ANY DAMN THING I PLEASE!!!   Bud Clark     JDeCaria@aol.com wrote:   > Once again, I have to agree with Erik. We, as organists must ALL WORK = TOGETHER, accross denominational lines, and stop this petty partisan = bickering if our craft is to survive the 20th century. If all the talent = got together and brainstormed, I'm sure we could come up with some great = ideas that would enhance our profession. As for those "pope-less" (add = your derogatory, sectarian insult here) list members who would continue to = engage in the bashing or non-constructive criticism of any one particular = denomination, I think I speak for all list members when I say YOU HAVE NO = PLACE ON THIS LIST. TAKE YOUR CHILDISH RANTING AND RAVING ELSEWNERE. > > Joseph DeCaria > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Fw: ALL READ!!! Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 18:44:16 -0500   I agee with Pat....seems we've been thru this before.   Peace to all.   Rick   ----- Original Message ----- From: Pat MacKenzie <patmackenzie@powersurfr.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 6:38 PM Subject: Re: ALL READ!!! Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance     > Thanks David and Peter, > You moderate a great list here - and now I can see why. Having dropped = off > of several lists in the past because the moderator(s) declined to = enforce > the standards of the list, I really appreciate this post. I enjoy the > informative postings and the give and take of opinion and viewpoint of = the > many members of this community. One of the delights for me is to see how > organists from such a wide spectrum of interests and philosophical = and/or > religious beliefs approach their art and their lives. When the emotions get > too out of hand, though, they seem to become the driving force of a thread. > I'm glad you've stepped in on this one. > Pat MacKenzie, > Edmonton, Alberta. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Administrator <admin@pipechat.org> > To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2000 4:04 PM > Subject: ALL READ!!! Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance > > > > OK Folks, > > > > I am going to step in here on this thread. I have been afraid that > > it was going to turn into this but was hoping that it would be kept > > civil. I guess there are a couple that really get upset whenever the > > R.C. church is mentioned at all about the state of music in many of > > their churches. > > > > Both Bud and Erik have made some good points in their postings and I > > have to agree with what they have written. And I think that it is > > very relevant to those people that strive to work in the R.C. church > > for good music. And as Erik pointed out since for many to follow > > their calling of playing the organ they have to be able to discuss > > what is happening in the churches they serve. I have no problem with > > that. > > > > I DO, however, Have problems with someone posting the following: > > > > >As for those "pope-less" (add your derogatory, sectarian insult > > >here) list members who would continue to engage in the bashing or > > >non-constructive criticism of any one particular denomination, I > > >think I speak for all list members when I say YOU HAVE NO PLACE ON > > >THIS LIST. TAKE YOUR CHILDISH RANTING AND RAVING ELSEWNERE. > > > > From what I have read, I have not seen anything that I would call > > "bashing" of one particular denomination. And one person DOESN'T > > speak for the whole list. There are only two people that can call > > something off-topic and that is either Peter or myself. The above, > > to me, constitutes FLAMING and WILL NOT be tolerated!! > > > > I am sure, no, not sure but I KNOW having been around in church music > > for many years, that the same problems exist in many of the different > > denominations, it just happened that it was an R.C. church where this > > problem appeared with Scott. > > > > The next person that comes out with a statement like the above will > > be removed from the list IMMEDIATELY without any recourse. Sorry to > > be so strong about this but as the List Owners, Peter and i are the > > ones to make a decision not a member of the list. > > > > David > > > > **************************************** > > David Scribner > > Co-Owner / Technical Administrator > > PipeChat > > > > http://www.pipechat.org > > 850-478-9635 > > mailto:david@blackiris.com > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: RC Standards/Pipechat Relevance From: <JDeCaria@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2000 20:07:12 EST   I am glad to see my previous postings to the list vindicated by the = remarks of Bud Clark below. The source of his discontent for The Church is = obvious, and I would humbly suggest that what he needs is a good therapist, and not = an email chat list.   I am a former RC seminarian, and I know first hand that the RC church in north america has a horrible musical history. This is in fact why I left = the seminary - over the deplorable treatment of the musicians of the diocese. = I am the first one to criticize The Church and to call it to task, but sectarian, immature comments are not constructive criticism, and the = owners don't seem to be capable of differentiating between the two. This will be = my final post,as I have requested that I be removed from this list. I feel = that PIPORG-L is more suited to my interests and tastes.   Joseph DeCaria, ARCT, CRCO Royal Conservatory of Music, Toronto   In a message dated 26/01/00 6:43:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, Quilisma@socal.rr.com writes:   > I gave thirty years of my LIFE to the RC church, had two beautiful music =   > programs DEMOLISHED by IGNORANT, ARROGANT priests, had hot coffee thrown = at > me by same, the organ turned off in the middle of the postlude because = the > celebrant didn't like what I was playing, etc. etc. etc. ... oh, I = forgot to > mention ... I was sexually molested by an RC priest when I was 19. I = HAVE > PORTFOLIO HERE AND I'LL SAY ANY DAMN THING I PLEASE!!! > > Bud Clark >