PipeChat Digest #1500 - Sunday, July 9, 2000
 
This Morning.
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: OLD anthems (slightly off-topic for pipechat) (X-posted) (LONG)
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Soundfont tuning
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: anthems, part two (X-posted)
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
solving the temperament argument
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Re: solving the temperament argument
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Organs and humidity
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
pre-Boer anthems
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Caleb, Caleb, wherefore art thou?
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: jingle bells (it's crazy alan's christmas sale)
  by "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net>
Re: jingle bells (it's crazy alan's christmas sale)
  by <KurtvonS@aol.com>
In the news....
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: In the news....
  by "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com>
Re: Organs and humidity
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Organs and humidity
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: In the news....
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
 


(back) Subject: This Morning. From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 12:39:35 +0100   Dear List,   I have now finished my exams and await August 24th when I get my results. They went well. Thank you to all the well wishers.   Anyway, back onto topic, we had FUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNN this morning!!! There = was a power cut so all three organs didn't work and they are to young to have hand pumps aswell. We therefore had to use the piano. So what I hear you say, but we are veeeeeeeeery high church so this is very our of the ordinary. It would have been OK, but the Anthem was the Jubilate from howell's Coll Reg, so the assistant organist had lots of fun with that! I went to the piano for the communion and end voluntary to put in the pedal part - the congregation thought that this was great!   Richard    
(back) Subject: Re: OLD anthems (slightly off-topic for pipechat) (X-posted) (LONG) From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 20:23:50 +0800   Wot! No Caleb Simper???? Bob E.   quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > I recently came by a large collection of old, OLD anthems, mostly in the > Victorian Anglican tradition. I have multiple copies, but most are too > fragile to use. TAgnus Dei (St. Cecelia Mass) (English text) - Gounod > Angels Holy, High and Lowly- Eric Thiman - Michaelmas, general > As It Began To Dawn - Charles Vincent - Easter > Aurora coelum purpurat (Christ Triumphant) - Pietro Yon - Easter > Awake, Thou That Sleepest (Daughter of Jairus) - Stainer - Easter > Awake Up, My Glory - Barnby - Easter > > Before the Heavens Were Spread Abroad - Horatio Parker - Christmas > Behold, I Bring You Good Tidings - John Goss - Christmas > Benedicite omnia opera Domini - F. Flaxington Harker - canticle > Behold the Lamb of God - Harry Wilkinson - Lent > Benedictus es, Domine - J.N. Brown - canticle > Bless Our Land (Veni, Jesu) - Cherubini - patriotic > Bethlehem - Gounod - Christmas > Breathe On Me, Breath of God - T. Tertius Noble > > C    
(back) Subject: Re: Soundfont tuning From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 20:34:44 +0800   Bruce I think you can give the musical public a little more credit for = knowing what they like. The other temperaments I have tried sound appalling in = some keys so the works of many of the modern composers cannot reasonably be played = on them. I would make a possible exception of valotti, but even that does not = do the job of equal temperament in ALL keys. Therefore some works are = excluded from its repertoire.   The number of instruments world wide using equal temperament must be = enormous, probably a huge majority, and you can't say that all those who control = these instruments are ignoramuses. Or would you? Bob E.   Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > In a message dated 7/8/00 5:00:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > tmbovard@arkansas.net writes: > > << Bruce -- I think I must take exception with this theory, at least the = way > you word it...if it *were* true, then why would so many (probably most, > but...) instruments continue to be built using equal temparament?? = Seems > to me that your hypothesis, if true, would suggest rather the opposite. = >> > > Significant does not necessarily mean majority; I intentionally = avoided > using "many" for this very reason. Probably the reason that "most" > instruments continue to be built using equal temperament is because the > majority still either sees this as "the" way or does not know any = better, > having not been exposed to unequal temperaments. Just because the > "majority" does something, does not make it "best." Although, I do find = it > comical in a sense that that the equal temperament people so visciously > attack the concept of unequal temperament, as though they are afraid it = will > "catch on and take over." > > Bruce > . . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles > Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com > HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502 > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: anthems, part two (X-posted) From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 20:41:10 +0800   MY choir cupboard goes back to many years before the Boer War!!!! Bob E.   quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > MY ANNUAL PLEA (grin): > > OK, here's the second part of the pitch: if you have single copies of > anthems of similar ilk that WEREN'T on my list, I will pay the same: > $.25 per anthem plus postage for YOU to send them to ME. > > PLEASE, don't let this whole body of traditional Anglican parish choral > literature disappear forever. Dig in the bottom drawers of your filing > cabinets and in your church basements. Give me your tired, your > tattered, your terminally tacky (grin). They'll find a good home at St. > Matthew's. I'll take just about anything written before WWII. > > PARTICULARLY NEEDED: > > "Anthem" settings of the Canticles at Morning and Evening Prayer > (1928/1662 Prayer Book text ONLY): > > Venite > Te Deum > Benedictus es, Domine > Benedicite > Benedictus > Jubilate > > Magnificat > Nunc dimittis > > AND > > COMMUNION SERVICES (Masses) in English using the 1928/1662 Prayer Book > text ... Faith Press, etc. > > AND > > any traditional anthems, particularly those with Scriptural (King James) > texts. > > And here's a dirty little secret: LORENZ used to publish anthems for the > Anglican service prior to WWII ... if anybody has any pre-WWII Choir > Herald or Choir Leader magazines, those are a treasure trove. > PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE send 'em, or copy 'em and send the > copies. I've located one almost complete set going back to 1898, but > it's in Texas and so far I've been able to get about one set per year > out of 'em. > > I'll do something nice for y'all someday (grin). > > Cheers, > > Bud > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: solving the temperament argument From: <KriderSM@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 10:37:48 EDT   Perhaps the organ world would be better served if each organ would rename = the Great organ with the Equal organ, the Swell organ with Pythagore organ, = the Choir organ with the Werckmeister organ, etc, so that the appropriate temeraments would be available at all time, at least on the larget organs where the literature best played on these differing temperaments would be played frequently.   My idea would avoid the problem of retempering the entire instrument for = the playing of just one piece.   Stan Krider     In a message dated 07/09/2000 5:01:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob Scarborough writes:   << Noooo, it's just many don't think that going backwards technologically is the answer...BWAAAHAHAHA! Try Franck on Werkmeister sometime...yeeeeeeeeeeeeesh! DeserTBoB >> ....in response to a previous posting,   >Although, I do find it >comical in a sense that that the equal temperament people so visciously >attack the concept of unequal temperament, as though they are afraid it will >"catch on and take over."<snip>  
(back) Subject: Re: solving the temperament argument From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 11:24:26 EDT   In a message dated 7/9/00 10:38:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, = KriderSM@aol.com writes:   << rename the Great organ with the Equal organ, the Swell organ with Pythagorean organ, =   the Choir organ with the Werckmeister organ, etc, so that the appropriate temperaments would be available at all time >>   Wounderful idea! That way when you couple them together you get = "Continental Tuning". Why didn't I think of this!   Alan B  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs and humidity From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 11:35:12 -0500     -----Original Message----- From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Saturday, July 08, 2000 10:44 PM     >At 09:24 AM 7/8/2000 -0500, you wrote: >>OK DRs! I think you did a good job of restating my original point in more >>technical language. Perhaps in all of this my original point was lost: >that some >>ac systems de-humidify, and >>some re-humidify! In my experience, it is those with constantly running air >>handlers that re-humidify. Don't you feel the rush of increased = humidity >every >>time the compressor >>goes off?<snip> > >You've missed my point. The point is that only the amount of moisture on >the coil at the time gets evaporated into the conditioned space. Once >that's evaporated, no more can be, thus the conditioned space is dryer = than >it would be if there were no refrigeration at all. <snip>   Yes, of course the total water content of the air will be less but, with = the cooler air, the relative humidity could be higher. right?? An oversize AC will cool the air so quick in a empty room that it wouldn't have time to wring out the water. We had a AC installed in our church that is undersize for the reason of removing the moisture first and cooling the air second. Our HVAC service tech recommended it. Luther    
(back) Subject: pre-Boer anthems From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 09:47:55 -0700   Is that an offer? (grin) What do you have??   Cheers,   Bud   Bob Elms wrote:   > MY choir cupboard goes back to many years before the Boer War!!!! > Bob E. > > quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote: > > > MY ANNUAL PLEA (grin): > > > > OK, here's the second part of the pitch: if you have single copies of > > anthems of similar ilk that WEREN'T on my list, I will pay the same: > > $.25 per anthem plus postage for YOU to send them to ME. > > > > PLEASE, don't let this whole body of traditional Anglican parish = choral > > literature disappear forever. Dig in the bottom drawers of your filing > > cabinets and in your church basements. Give me your tired, your > > tattered, your terminally tacky (grin). They'll find a good home at = St. > > Matthew's. I'll take just about anything written before WWII. > > > > PARTICULARLY NEEDED: > > > > "Anthem" settings of the Canticles at Morning and Evening Prayer > > (1928/1662 Prayer Book text ONLY): > > > > Venite > > Te Deum > > Benedictus es, Domine > > Benedicite > > Benedictus > > Jubilate > > > > Magnificat > > Nunc dimittis > > > > AND > > > > COMMUNION SERVICES (Masses) in English using the 1928/1662 Prayer Book > > text ... Faith Press, etc. > > > > AND > > > > any traditional anthems, particularly those with Scriptural (King = James) > > texts. > > > > And here's a dirty little secret: LORENZ used to publish anthems for = the > > Anglican service prior to WWII ... if anybody has any pre-WWII Choir > > Herald or Choir Leader magazines, those are a treasure trove. > > PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE send 'em, or copy 'em and send the > > copies. I've located one almost complete set going back to 1898, but > > it's in Texas and so far I've been able to get about one set per year > > out of 'em. > > > > I'll do something nice for y'all someday (grin). > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bud > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------- > Click here for Free Video!! > http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Caleb, Caleb, wherefore art thou? From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 09:49:38 -0700   I would LOVE some Caleb Simper ... I think they must have kept him. This = was a discarded library from a "moderne" Episcopal church.   Cheers,   Bud   Bob Elms wrote:   > Wot! No Caleb Simper???? > Bob E. >    
(back) Subject: Re: jingle bells (it's crazy alan's christmas sale) From: "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net> Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 03:16:06 -0400   East Indian elephant bells are very good. They sell them as good luck charms, dinner bells etc. Try an East Indian importing company you should find plenty there. ----- Original Message ----- From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> To: <organchat@egroups.com> Cc: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, July 07, 2000 8:42 PM Subject: jingle bells (it's crazy alan's christmas sale)     > I'm usually pretty good at finding odd items and supplies (1pound cans = of > graphite, pure talc, a set of arch punches at 1/4 of the Organ Supply price > etc.) byt I'm drawing a blank on this one. We are trying to build a > cymbalstern for a special customer. We don't have a forge, therefore = can't > cast bells ourselves, so I have been looking for a supplier of small pitched > bells. All that I have found is a bell foundry in England (don't want to deal > with importing and conversion from pounds to dollars) and people who = sell > bells as part of kitschy chatshkas. So I thought I'd turn to the vast > hive-mind of the lists. Does anyone know where we can get us some jingle > bells? > > Alan B > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: jingle bells (it's crazy alan's christmas sale) From: <KurtvonS@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 13:56:28 EDT   I bought a string of different small bells at Pier One imports that has supplied several variable speed Zimbelsterns for a low price...  
(back) Subject: In the news.... From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 12:03:46   The Episcopalians and Evangelical Lutherans have agreed to a "non-merger merger" today, allowing each others' membership to permanently attend the churches of the other, along with settling various theological and dogmatic differences. What's to become of their individual musical heritages? "Ein Feste Burg" on an =C6-S? Oldroyd on a tracker? Stay tuned....   In other news...   The Anglicans and RCs have been playing footsie as well lately, with continuing dialog between Rome and Canterbury. Should there be a cementing of this schism, what WILL the Queen do?? Should there be a reallegence of the Church of England with Rome, what will the Episcopalians do? Interesting....   Obviously, there is a trend towards merger and consolidation in the mainline Christian religions...all for the better, I'm sure. Could it be that all this senseless fragmentation into thousands of denominations has finally showed itself to be mainline religions' downfall, giving rise to the "happy-clappies" and the televangelist Big Businesses? The numbers would suggest so.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: In the news.... From: "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 15:41:39 -0400   At 12:03 PM 7/9/00 +0000, DesertBob wrote: >The Episcopalians and Evangelical Lutherans have agreed to a "non-merger >merger" today, allowing each others' membership to permanently attend the >churches of the other, along with settling various theological and dogmatic >differences. What's to become of their individual musical heritages? "Ein >Feste Burg" on an =C6-S? Oldroyd on a tracker? Stay tuned.... >   Shucks, Lutheran chorales on an Ae-S and Oldroyd on a tracker have been around for a long time. Cf. Epiphany at Metro Center (Ae-S) and St. Columba's at Tenley Circle (Flentrop) here in the Nation's Capital. Some of the folks on the Anglican Music List are getting their knickers in a twist about it, but I think it will be implemented mostly in rural communities that can support one congregation w. building and staff but not two.   >In other news... > >The Anglicans and RCs have been playing footsie as well lately, with >continuing dialog between Rome and Canterbury. Should there be a cementing >of this schism, what WILL the Queen do?? Should there be a reallegence of >the Church of England with Rome, what will the Episcopalians do? >Interesting....   Don't hold your breath. Those discussions have been going on for maybe a century, and every time the Romans compromise in favor of the Anglicans, the Vatican slaps them down and they have to start all over again from the beginning.   > >Obviously, there is a trend towards merger and consolidation in the >mainline Christian religions...all for the better, I'm sure. Could it be >that all this senseless fragmentation into thousands of denominations has >finally showed itself to be mainline religions' downfall, giving rise to >the "happy-clappies" and the televangelist Big Businesses? The numbers >would suggest so. > Considering that all too often the happy-clappies and mainline congregations are one and the same, I don't know how all of this fits together. it's really off-topic for PipeChat, except to the extent that the decline of the mainline Protestant denominations that are willing to pay for traditional instruments and musicians happened at the same time the nondenominational churches discovered marketing. If there's a trend here, it may be that there are more seekers who want definitive answers than there are seekers who don't want to be told exactly what to believe about everything. =20   Evie  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs and humidity From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 12:24:12   At 11:35 AM 7/9/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Yes, of course the total water content of the air will be less but, with = the >cooler air, the relative humidity could be higher. right??<snip>   In terms of organ things, it's not the relative humidity that matters; = it's the total moisture content.   >We had a AC installed in our church that is undersize for the >reason of removing the moisture first and cooling the air second. >Our HVAC service tech recommended it.<snip>   Good recommendation, overall.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs and humidity From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 02:43:59 -0500   Yes, and that outside air brings in more humidity. Some of that gets = re-cycled into the air each time the compressor goes off. In our church we have = large residential type air handlers with the usual auto and run fan switch. We = leave it on auto, and it works well for us since the system is very quiet. Luther's posting about a smaller unit to maintain lower humidity when the = larger unit is off is an interesting solution. Would you drs. care to suggest specs suitable for inclusion in a program for = churches and music rooms? Roy   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 09:24 AM 7/8/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >OK DRs! I think you did a good job of restating my original point in = more > >technical language. Perhaps in all of this my original point was lost: > that some > >ac systems de-humidify, and > >some re-humidify! In my experience, it is those with constantly = running air > >handlers that re-humidify. Don't you feel the rush of increased = humidity > every > >time the compressor > >goes off?<snip> > > You've missed my point. The point is that only the amount of moisture = on > the coil at the time gets evaporated into the conditioned space. Once > that's evaporated, no more can be, thus the conditioned space is dryer = than > it would be if there were no refrigeration at all. A refrigeration = system > cannot "humidify" the conditioned space beyond what is on the coil when = it > warms up, a very small fraction of the total moisture content. Sure, > you'll feel a bit of moist air as the coil warms up. Once that's > evaporated, the latent heat of the air doesn't increase due to > "humidification". > > >I guess someone a long time ago decided that > >commercial ac > >systems should have constant running fans. Perhaps this was because of = noise > >concerns; that people would be disturbed by > >the starting sound of the units.<snip> > > Part of total design is ventilation. A room full of people must have a > certain percentage of its air flow be fresh air, whether it is heated, > chilled, or neutral. This is usually 10% for places like office = buildings, > more for auditoriums and churches. This is usually goverened by local > statute, except in more backward parts of the country. A good rule of > thumb for tightly packed churches (of which there are few these days) is = 20%. > > >Shouldn't they be perfectly silent anyway, and > >then that would not be a problem. With todays "soft start" = possibilities, > there > >should be no increase in noise on starting either.<snip> > > You can have a very quiet system in any installation...as long as you've > got the money. Sound traps, turning vanes and custom made duct runs = make > this quite possible, but very few churches are willing to spend money on > it. Many large, rich churches built in the late '50s and '60s have very > quiet systems that still work well to this day. When church monies = started > getting tight, we started seeing the implementation of package units and > the like, which increase noise. > > >What we need is more hvac > >engineers who understand the problems and needs of music rooms and > churches!<snip> > > No, those are in large supply, as can be seen in the recording industry. > What's needed is church and auditorium committees that know what they = want, > and let engineers engineer, instead of spec'ing out stupid and/or cheap > systems that don't provide what they need, which is often the case. = Also, > it is an engineering standard that commercial systems that condition air > for human occupany have constant running air handlers. Some > experimentation was done in the late '70s with cycling fans; the > disadvantages outweigh the advantages, and very little savings are = realized > in terms of energy savings. Equipment wear and tear increases, too. > Multi-horsepower fan units undergo most of their stress when starting, = not > while running. You might notice that large, modern concert halls have = very > quiet systems, even though their capacity might approach 100 tons. > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 12:51:02 -0700       Bob Scarborough wrote:   > The Episcopalians and Evangelical Lutherans have agreed to a "non-merger > merger" today, allowing each others' membership to permanently attend = the > churches of the other, along with settling various theological and = dogmatic > differences. What's to become of their individual musical heritages? = "Ein > Feste Burg" on an =C6-S? Oldroyd on a tracker? Stay tuned.... > > In other news... > > The Anglicans and RCs have been playing footsie as well lately, with > continuing dialog between Rome and Canterbury. Should there be a = cementing > of this schism,   If ROME wants to return to the One, True Church, they'd be welcome, = provided they renounce their claim to supremacy (grinning and ducking).   > what WILL the Queen do?? Should there be a reallegence of > the Church of England with Rome, what will the Episcopalians do? > Interesting....   Won't happen (grin).   (1) It would provoke a constitutional crisis in England ... the Sovereign = may not (a) be a Roman Catholic or (b) marry one.   (2) the Most Rev'd Karol Joseph Wojtyla, Bishop of Rome (aka the "pope") = gave the Most Rev'd Dr. George Leonard Cary, Archbishop of Canterbury a very = STERN lecture about women in the priesthood (as if it was any of his business) = ... most Provinces of the Anglican Communion have 'em, though I think the U.S. = and possibly Canada are the only ones so far who have consecrated women = BISHOPS, which REALLY fries Rome's cookies.   The Anglican Communion is more likely to fly apart along conservative and liberal lines, after the African bishops staged a VERY hostile = conservative take-over of the last Lambeth Conference.   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: In the news.... From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 16:22:20 -0400   > From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> > Subject: In the news.... >=20 > The Episcopalians and Evangelical Lutherans have agreed to a "non-merger > merger" today, allowing each others' membership to permanently attend the > churches of the other, along with settling various theological and dogmat= ic > differences. What's to become of their individual musical heritages? "E= in > Feste Burg" on an =C6-S?   Well, for starters, at the quite renowned Smoky Mary's in Manhattan (St. Mary the Virgin) at Solemn Mass this morning the recessional hymn was "A Mighty Fortress." And this under the new rector who is somewhat short of chatty with his nearest Lutheran neighbors, at St. Luke's, a block and a half west.   > Oldroyd on a tracker? Stay tuned.... >=20 > In other news... >=20 > The Anglicans and RCs have been playing footsie as well lately, with > continuing dialog between Rome and Canterbury. Should there be a cementi= ng > of this schism, what WILL the Queen do?? Should there be a reallegence o= f > the Church of England with Rome, what will the Episcopalians do? > Interesting....   Don't hold your breath. >=20 > Obviously, there is a trend towards merger and consolidation in the > mainline Christian religions...all for the better, I'm sure.   Agreed.   > Could it be > that all this senseless fragmentation into thousands of denominations   That's a bit hyperbolic, isn't it? Just off the top of my head, I'd guess that the dozen or so largest denominations would include 98% of the population of all the (however many) denominations. I'm willing to ignore (at least temporarily) the other 1988=B1 denominations on your list.   > has > finally showed itself to be mainline religions' downfall, giving rise to > the "happy-clappies" and the televangelist Big Businesses? The numbers > would suggest so. >=20 Perhaps.   Alan Freed, St. Luke's, NYC