PipeChat Digest #1501 - Monday, July 10, 2000
 
Fred Swann
  by "Bob North" <bnorth@intergate.bc.ca>
Organs in Sydney
  by "Michael Davis" <michaeldavis@wykecottage.screaming.net>
Re: Organs and humidity
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Re: In the news....
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Organs and humidity
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Latin question (kinda off topic)
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Soundfont tuning
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: solving the temperament argument
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: pre-Boer anthems
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Caleb, Caleb, wherefore art thou?
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Soundfont tuning
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: solving the temperament argument
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Caleb, Caleb, wherefore art thou?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Caleb, Caleb, wherefore art thou?
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: solving the temperament argument
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: solving the temperament argument
  by <support@opensystemsorgans.com>
Re: This Morning.
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
"Cort=E8ge et Litanie", Dupr=E9
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Soundfont tuning
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: solving the temperament argument
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: solving the temperament argument
  by "Ron Pearcy" <ronniep@clear.net.nz>
 


(back) Subject: Fred Swann From: "Bob North" <bnorth@intergate.bc.ca> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 13:25:03 -0700 (PDT)   Last night, I had the pleasure of listening to and watching Fred Swann in recital at Holy Rosary Cathedral in Vancouver. This was the second in a series of 4 concerts to celebrate the rebuilding, by Cassavant, of their = 100 year old Karn-Warren 3m/51r pipe organ. Like many on this list, I watched = Mr Swann from the Garden Grove CA church for many years. This organ is = located in the rear balcony, so they had two cameras, one on the manuals and one = on the pedals, which were shown in split screen, on 3 large projection TV screens at the front of the church. While the sound of the organ filled this large church, with its high domed ceiling, the hightlight for me was watching the ballet of the hands and feet of this talented musician. When you watched the screen, and heard the sound, his hands and feet seemed to dance over the keys, and the production of the sound seem to be the naturally occuring result of the ballet of the fingers on the keys and the feet on the pedals. Perhaps I was in awe of the musician at the console, = for it is a night I shall not forget. At the end of the concert, Mr Swann said that people told him that they enjoyed his concerts, even if they = didnt know any of the music he had played. For the encore, he started with = Amazing Grace, and an arrangement of several well know hymn tunes, all from = memory.   The series continues August 12 with Joyce Jones, and concludes September 8th, with Diane Bish.    
(back) Subject: Organs in Sydney From: "Michael Davis" <michaeldavis@wykecottage.screaming.net> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 21:45:08 +0100   Dear List I will be travelling to Sydney (from the UK) on a business trip from 17 = July till 27 July.   I would be most grateful if anybody could advise what organs are worth seeing/hearing and if there are any recitals/events to look out for whilst I'm there. I also wonder where to go for a RC mass with some decent music = on the Sunday I'm there.   Many thanks Michael Davis    
(back) Subject: Re: Organs and humidity From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 15:47:40 -0500       >At 11:35 AM 7/9/2000 -0500, LM wrote: >>Yes, of course the total water content of the air will be less but, with the >>cooler air, the relative humidity could be higher. right??<snip> > Db wrote, >In terms of organ things, it's not the relative humidity that matters; = it's >the total moisture content. > Correct to a point, and that point is the dew point, if you have a temp of 70 inside with a dew point of 67, and a temp outside of 90 with a dew point of 88, now you let in a supply of outside air and that air surrounds all the organ pipes and other metal things, the dew point can be reached and the everything can become wet enough to wipe water off it. (even wood parts) If it is that wet it is too wet. But the right AC should handle it. I realize that this is not an every day condition, but here in Minnesota several days in the summer can create this condition, for instance our cool basements can become very humid here and dehumidifiers are a good seller. Don't check my math, I just used those numbers to illustrate. respectfully, Luther      
(back) Subject: Re: In the news.... From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 13:35:34   At 04:22 PM 7/9/2000 -0400, you wrote: >And this under the new rector who is somewhat short of >chatty with his nearest Lutheran neighbors, at St. Luke's, a block and a >half west.<snip>   A bit...snooty, perhaps?? LOL   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs and humidity From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 14:30:15   At 02:43 AM 7/9/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Would you >drs. care to suggest specs suitable for inclusion in a program for churches and >music rooms?<snip>   Retain the services of a licensed professional engineer.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Latin question (kinda off topic) From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 18:58:50 EDT   Dear Margo:   One meaning Sing to the Lord the second, Sing of the Lord. "Cantate" Sing = to or of.   The third Praise the Lord, "Laudate"   Ron  
(back) Subject: Re: Soundfont tuning From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 19:54:25 EDT   In a message dated 7/8/00 10:16:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cremona502 writes:   << The Vienna Soundfont editor is downloadable from developer.soundblaster.com (no www). You don't need a keyboard. Dick Meckstroth >> >> Everytime I go to this page, the Vienna Soundfont page is unavailable. Is =   there another way, or should I (gasp) be patient?   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: solving the temperament argument From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:08:34 +0800   You're serious? Well couple the manuals together and enjoy the cacophany! Bob E.   KriderSM@aol.com wrote:   > Perhaps the organ world would be better served if each organ would = rename the > Great organ with the Equal organ, the Swell organ with Pythagore organ, = the > Choir organ with the Werckmeister organ, etc, so that the appropriate > temeraments would be available at all time, at least on the larget = organs > where the literature best played on these differing temperaments would = be > played frequently. > > My idea would avoid the problem of retempering the entire instrument for = the > playing of just one piece. > > Stan Krider > > In a message dated 07/09/2000 5:01:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Bob > Scarborough writes: > > << > Noooo, it's just many don't think that going backwards technologically = is > the answer...BWAAAHAHAHA! > > Try Franck on Werkmeister sometime...yeeeeeeeeeeeeesh! > > DeserTBoB > >> > ...in response to a previous posting, > > >Although, I do find it > >comical in a sense that that the equal temperament people so = visciously > >attack the concept of unequal temperament, as though they are afraid = it > will > >"catch on and take over."<snip> > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: pre-Boer anthems From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:12:44 +0800   Give me a day or two and I'll e-mail you a list. There must be at least = 300 different anthems going back over 100 years!! The church goes back to 1863 = and had a choir most of its life. Noone seems to have thrown anything out in = all that time!! Bob E.   quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > Is that an offer? (grin) What do you have?? > > Cheers, > > Bud > > Bob Elms wrote: > > > MY choir cupboard goes back to many years before the Boer War!!!! > > Bob E. > > > > quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote: > > > > > MY ANNUAL PLEA (grin): > > > > > > OK, here's the second part of the pitch: if you have single copies = of > > > anthems of similar ilk that WEREN'T on my list, I will pay the same: > > > $.25 per anthem plus postage for YOU to send them to ME. > > > > > > PLEASE, don't let this whole body of traditional Anglican parish = choral > > > literature disappear forever. Dig in the bottom drawers of your = filing > > > cabinets and in your church basements. Give me your tired, your > > > tattered, your terminally tacky (grin). They'll find a good home at = St. > > > Matthew's. I'll take just about anything written before WWII. > > > > > > PARTICULARLY NEEDED: > > > > > > "Anthem" settings of the Canticles at Morning and Evening Prayer > > > (1928/1662 Prayer Book text ONLY): > > > > > > Venite > > > Te Deum > > > Benedictus es, Domine > > > Benedicite > > > Benedictus > > > Jubilate > > > > > > Magnificat > > > Nunc dimittis > > > > > > AND > > > > > > COMMUNION SERVICES (Masses) in English using the 1928/1662 Prayer = Book > > > text ... Faith Press, etc. > > > > > > AND > > > > > > any traditional anthems, particularly those with Scriptural (King = James) > > > texts. > > > > > > And here's a dirty little secret: LORENZ used to publish anthems for = the > > > Anglican service prior to WWII ... if anybody has any pre-WWII Choir > > > Herald or Choir Leader magazines, those are a treasure trove. > > > PLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASEPLEASE send 'em, or copy 'em and send the > > > copies. I've located one almost complete set going back to 1898, but > > > it's in Texas and so far I've been able to get about one set per = year > > > out of 'em. > > > > > > I'll do something nice for y'all someday (grin). > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Bud > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related = topics > > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > -- > > ----------------------------------------------------- > > Click here for Free Video!! > > http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: Caleb, Caleb, wherefore art thou? From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 08:13:26 +0800   Caleb Simper I have!!! Bob E.   quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > I would LOVE some Caleb Simper ... I think they must have kept him. This = was a > discarded library from a "moderne" Episcopal church. > > Cheers, > > Bud > > Bob Elms wrote: > > > Wot! No Caleb Simper???? > > Bob E. > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: Soundfont tuning From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:36:53 EDT   In a message dated 7/9/00 8:41:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes:   << The other temperaments I have tried sound appalling in some keys so the works of many of the modern composers cannot reasonably be played = on them. I would make a possible exception of valotti, but even that does = not do the job of equal temperament in ALL keys. Therefore some works are = excluded from its repertoire.   But you did not mention how wonderful music appropriate to these = temperaments sounded. I would much rather be unable to play some music on an = instrument that be able to play "everything" in a "one-sound-fits-all" manner that is =   uninteresting. In reality, some works are excluded from most organs repertoire. The point that doesn't seem to be getting across is that one =   organ cannot play music of all periods authenitcally. I would much = rather live with this and be able to go from one organ to another (even if not in =   the same room) and be able to play various periods authentically, than = move from one organ to another and have everything sound similarly bland. << The number of instruments world wide using equal temperament must be enormous, probably a huge majority, and you can't say that all those who control = these instruments are ignoramuses. Or would you? >> I would not consider "all" ignoramuses, but there are many who have not = grown as musicians to the point that they can appreciate anything different from =   what they're used to. And, since "a huge majority" of organs already = have equal temperament, what is the problem with building instruments with = unequal temperaments? I see no reason to stop using equal temperament, since = there are people who and music for whom this is considered best.   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: solving the temperament argument From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:40:33 EDT   In a message dated 7/9/00 10:38:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time, = KriderSM@aol.com writes:   << Perhaps the organ world would be better served if each organ would = rename the Great organ with the Equal organ, the Swell organ with Pythagore organ, = the Choir organ with the Werckmeister organ, etc, so that the appropriate temeraments would be available at all time, at least on the larget organs =   where the literature best played on these differing temperaments would be =   played frequently. >> I did this in a small way on one organ I played, by tuning one stop (a celeste rank which I did not miss) to a more severe unequal temperament. = I often got very positive comments from people in the congregation and especially from the choir, when I used this stop. It was great fun.   It would be wonderful to have maybe an 8 and 4 stop in each division for = this purpose. That's only 8 ranks for a three manual organ!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Caleb, Caleb, wherefore art thou? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 20:44:24 EDT   In a message dated 7/9/00 12:53:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, quilisma@socal.rr.com writes:   << I would LOVE some Caleb Simper ... >>   Is that red, white, or rose' ??? ;-)   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Caleb, Caleb, wherefore art thou? From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 17:50:29 -0700   Kewl! Whatcha got?   Bud   Bob Elms wrote:   > Caleb Simper I have!!! > Bob E. > > quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote: > > > I would LOVE some Caleb Simper ... I think they must have kept him. = This was a > > discarded library from a "moderne" Episcopal church. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bud > > > > Bob Elms wrote: > > > > > Wot! No Caleb Simper???? > > > Bob E. > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------- > Click here for Free Video!! > http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: solving the temperament argument From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 18:57:08   At 08:08 AM 7/10/2000 +0800, you wrote: >You're serious?<snip>   Nah, ah think that's ah say that's a JOKE, son!   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: solving the temperament argument From: <support@opensystemsorgans.com> Date: 9 Jul 2000 19:10:49 -0700   Geez, I didn't mean to start an argument, but this discussion has = certainly answered my question. The option of switching temperaments on a = software-based organ is clearly a winner, as long as one of the = temperaments is equal. I'll put it on my list.   Thanks for the input.   Dick Meckstroth        
(back) Subject: Re: This Morning. From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:40:36 -0400 (EDT)   Um, Richard? Didst thou participate in the post-examination fun and frolic and imbibest way way way too much? I doubteth it immensely, because thou seemeth to have more sense than a certain notable 16-year-old in thy country, who shall remain nameless.   The electricity at our church goes out every once in a while, not over the entire church, but sufficiently to prevent us from using the organ.   There are some in our church who cannot understand why I'm never worried about that; I simply move to the piano and carry on. The show (oops, the service) must go on, no?   Neil    
(back) Subject: "Cort=E8ge et Litanie", Dupr=E9 From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 22:16:46   Attention, Dupr=E9oligists out there....   This piece (Opus 19, although it started out long before that designation was affixed to it) is certainly on of the plums of the post-Romantic repertoire, and when properly performed, brings the audience to unsurpassed emotional uplift. It started, oddly enough, as an improvisation somewhere around the time of his American tour in the early '20's, then became part of a ballet accompaniment (!), then a piano piece (where it earned its opus), and then a stand-alone for full orchestra. He later transcribed the work for organ, which is what we're most familiar with today, and quite fortunate are we to have it in our repertoire. However, I've heard that Dupr=E9 also arranged a version for organ AND orchestra for public= performance.   Has anyone ever seen the score for such a pairing, or ever heard it performed thusly? Interesting....   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Soundfont tuning From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:09:10 +0800   You are missing the point Bruce. The fact is that equal temperament will = do a good job of playing ALL the repertoire including that of Bach and Co.. The = music of Bach is played as much on the piano as the organ these days and noone = complains about the equal temperament of the pianos, and ,for that matter, I have = heard no complaints about Bach being played on organs tuned to equal temperament, = which, let's face it, is used in the vast majority of organs.   No, I am not prepared to sacrifice playing modern composers on the organ = solely because pieces in a certain restricted number of keys sound great in a = certain unusual temperament. Not for a moment. I would also disagree with your = statement that no organ will play all organ music "authentically". What do you mean = by authentically? Are you saying that the music of Bach can only be played = on an organ in Western Europe 300 years old? It sounds like it. That is the = ultimate in authenticity. OK, then you must play Haydn and his contemporaries on = ancient instruments too - no Steinway or Bechstein pianos allowed. They would not = be authentic. If you are going to argue along the lines you have adopted = Bruce you must go the whole hog and apply it universally to all music.What a boring prospect!!! Bob E.   Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > In a message dated 7/9/00 8:41:09 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes: > > << The other temperaments I have tried sound appalling in some keys > so the works of many of the modern composers cannot reasonably be = played on > them. I would make a possible exception of valotti, but even that does = not do > the job of equal temperament in ALL keys. Therefore some works are = excluded > from > its repertoire. > > But you did not mention how wonderful music appropriate to these = temperaments > sounded. I would much rather be unable to play some music on an = instrument > that be able to play "everything" in a "one-sound-fits-all" manner that = is > uninteresting.    
(back) Subject: Re: solving the temperament argument From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:50:05 +0800   Yes of course. It would have to be! Careful though what you say, someone might try it!!! B. E.   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 08:08 AM 7/10/2000 +0800, you wrote: > >You're serious?<snip> > > Nah, ah think that's ah say that's a JOKE, son! > > dB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: solving the temperament argument From: "Ron Pearcy" <ronniep@clear.net.nz> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:01:48 +0000 (GMT)     I am surprised that someone has not suggested Bruce, that you consider investing in a new or preused Rodgers PDI classical digital organ. These instruments come complete with selectable temperaments .. typically Equal, Meantone, Kirnberger, Pythagorean, Werchmeister I & II and Young I & II, all easily and quickly available via dial selection. I would be most surprised if recent equivalent Allen instruments do not have a similar feature. It's a wonderful facility, providing what you seek, and probably much more in the area of tuning options. Of course I know that digital instruments do not curry favour with you. And that is your choice of course. However can only ask whether you have played a - current - digital organ and specifically trialled the temperament facility. If you haven't, then I would suggest that you may well find it an interesting experience.   Ronnie   -- ----- Ron Pearcy <ronniep@clear.net.nz> 17 Donegal Crescent, = Greenswood, Greenmeadows, Napier, New Zealand -------