PipeChat Digest #1510 - Wednesday, July 12, 2000
 
Re: Celestes
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Choral List
  by <Devon3000@aol.com>
Dropkicks
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Trashy music
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Trashy music
  by "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com>
Re: Trashy music-Use this on Superbowl Sunday
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Re: Piporg-L Discussions
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Piporg-L Discussions
  by <CareyOrgan@aol.com>
Re: Piporg-L Discussions
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Allen spinets, bishops and goal-posts
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Piporg-L Discussions
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Estey 2-manual and Pedal for sale
  by <Devon3000@aol.com>
Re: Piporg-L Discussions
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Estey 2-manual and Pedal for sale
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Piporg-L Discussions
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Performance Anxiety (was Re: Peter Hurford)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
PLEASE READ:  Re: Piporg-L Discussions
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
List Guidelines
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Celestes From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:24:33 +0800   He never said. My informant was a local organ builder who built 30 organs = in this state. He was considering using the idea for one of his own organs but I = think finance stopped short of any fancy work. Anyway his tierces were usually = derived from a unison rank. Amid the shudders of the virginally pure organophiles = I say that of course that is not an ideal way to obtain a tierce, which is not = correctly tuned, but it worked. However that could not be used to give any celeste = effect since it was tuned as a unison rank. If Bill Glasson or someone from the = Eastern States is reading this he may know as I think the organ was in Victoria. Bob E   > Which Bob? > I have heard of organs in Australia that use the nazard or tierce as one = rank of > a celeste. It would most likely be a flute celeste of course. Most of = the > celestes I have heard here are two ranks of a string stop such as gamba = or viole > d'orchestre (a favourite of J. E. Dodd and Son in this country) tuned = sharp, or > as an unda maris, two dulcianas with one tuned flat. > Bob E. > > RonSeverin@aol.com wrote: > > > Dear Bob: > > > > On the West Point organ, Wanamakers, and the Atlantic City mega = instruments, > > the ranks began at 16' or 32' for string, Celestes and tuned sharp or = flat in > > unison > > depending on whether the celeste was subnazard, nazard, or subtierce, = or > > tierce > > yielding the tuning shape or flat by tuning to the intune mutation. = The > > specs. of these > > three organs clearly shows this trick of obtaining sharp or flat = celestes by > > tuning > > the mutation dead in tune with the unison rank. I discovered this by = reading > > the spec. sheet on all three. It could be done today using a soft = unison > > Dulciana with a sharp and flat Unda Maris and tuning a Dulciana = twelfth and a > > Dulciana Tierce and extending the pipes back to TC for instance to = produce > > the celeste sharp and flat. I think this works best in ET. > > > > What do you think? > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Ron Severin > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------- > Click here for Free Video!! > http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: Choral List From: <Devon3000@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:34:39 EDT   Could someone please send me privately the URL for the choral list? = Thanks!   Devon Hollingsworth, in Chicago Suburb  
(back) Subject: Dropkicks From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:23:35 -0700   Does anyone know a Mode IV chant melody in this rhyme scheme (11.10.10.11, = as near as I can make out)? Would be great for a blended service (NOT!).   Cheers,   Bud   Adrianne Schutt wrote:   > At 01:23 AM 12/7/00 +0200, Chris Johns wrote: > >reminds of the title of a happy-clappy (I use the term completely = neutrally) > >song called "Drop kick me, Jesus, through the goal-posts of life". = Anyone > >know the rest? > Finally, country music---something I'm good at! *chuckles* = Bobby > Bare did the version I'm familiar with. Lyrics alone do not do justice = to > this piece's "total package", but what the heck, here y'all go: > > Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life > End over end, neither left nor to right > Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights > Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life > > Make me, oh make me, Lord, more than I am > Make me a piece in your master game plan > Free from the earthly tempestion below > I got the will, Lord, if you got your toes > > Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life > End over end, neither left nor to right > Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights > Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life > > Bring on the brothers who've gone on before > And all of the sisters who've knocked on your door > All the departed, dear loved ones of mine > Stick 'em up front in the offensive line > > Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life > End over end, neither left nor to right > Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights > Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life > > (repeat chorus twice more to fade) > > If you're after some "trashy" tunes, try out Confederate > Railroad's "Trashy Women". Thoroughly danceable, and a great sense of > humor. ;) > > Have fun! > Ad ;-> > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Trashy music From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 10:44:34 -0700   If you play a C & W record backwards,   (1) you get your pickup and your girlfriend back   (2) your houndog rises from the dead           Tornados and redneck divorces have the following thing in common:   In both cases, somebody's gonna lose a trailer.       Cheers,   Bud   Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > I love the reality of C&W music.... such as... > > "While your Dear John's tearing up my heart, > My John Deere's tearing up my fields..." ;-) > > Bruce > . . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles > Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com > HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502 > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Trashy music From: "Ron Natalie" <ron@sensor.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:58:29 -0400       quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > > Tornados and redneck divorces have the following thing in common: > > In both cases, somebody's gonna lose a trailer. >   Hey, you can divorce her, but she's still your sister.   ----   When you play the Windows 2000 installation CDROM backwards you hear = satanic messages. Worse, when you play it forward it installs Windows 2000 on = your computer.  
(back) Subject: Re: Trashy music-Use this on Superbowl Sunday From: <JKVDP@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 14:48:47 EDT   I have a friend, whose name shall not be revealed for obvious reasons. He actually had this sung this at his Lutheran Church on Superbowl Sunday! = He no longer works for the Lutherans. Now he is a bishop in one the the continuing Anglican Churches - like where Bud is.   >Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life >End over end, neither left nor to right >Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights >Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life > Jerry in Seattle    
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-L Discussions From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:00:33 EDT   Dear Bud etal:   You guys must be bored looking for someone to devour. Is there a thread = here, or are we tired and threadbare. We've killed off organ shoes, practice = organs, home organs, etc. Where have all the discussions gone about the pipe organ? We seem to have degenerated into name calling, and worse, thus cutting off threads =   and people willing to come foreward with topics only to be flamed by the circling buzzards. Let's open up pipe organ discussions again without shooting people down with missiles, bazookas, and just plain unfriendly behavior. It's = fine to disagree with someone without being nasty. I'm sure the Piporg-L owners would whole heartedly agree with me.   Lately we have had so many off topic discussions, we quite simply can't = seem to get back on track. There are a lot of interesting things to talk about, Pipe organs Historically, Practices, Methods, Voicing, Styles of instruments, Quality woods, leathers, Winding, Wind Chest Designs, Console Designs, Up Coming Rebuilds. New Organs, Builders Past, Present, Future possible integrations into pipe =   organs.   There's a lot to talk about, Let's get on with it!   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-L Discussions From: <CareyOrgan@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:07:50 EDT   Dear Ron: I could not agree with you more. I have answered people privately = when it was available to em to do so but otherwise I shy away from this kind of =   stuff. I was recently slammed over my handling of a Latin translation that someone was honestly seeking. I did my best (eight years of Latin = training and still at it) with it and lo and behold I got slammed. Now someone is on the list referring to Roman Catholics as simply = Romans. I answered this person privately but this stuff is enough for me to call = it quits sometimes! Thanks for listening! Paul D. Carey  
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-L Discussions From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:12:27 -0700   HUH??!! I haven't been on PipARGUE for two YEARS, and then only VERY = briefly. And I don't see that what went on recently on ORGANCHAT has any business being = posted on PIPECHAT.   This is VERY strange ...   Cheers,   Bud   RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   > Dear Bud etal: > > You guys must be bored looking for someone to devour. Is there a thread = here, > or > are we tired and threadbare. We've killed off organ shoes, practice = organs, > home > organs, etc. Where have all the discussions gone about the pipe organ? = We > seem > to have degenerated into name calling, and worse, thus cutting off = threads > and people willing to come foreward with topics only to be flamed by the > circling buzzards. Let's open up pipe organ discussions again without > shooting people > down with missiles, bazookas, and just plain unfriendly behavior. It's = fine > to disagree > with someone without being nasty. I'm sure the Piporg-L owners would = whole > heartedly agree with me. > > Lately we have had so many off topic discussions, we quite simply can't = seem > to get > back on track. There are a lot of interesting things to talk about, Pipe > organs Historically, Practices, Methods, Voicing, Styles of instruments, > Quality woods, leathers, Winding, Wind Chest Designs, Console Designs, = Up > Coming Rebuilds. > New Organs, Builders Past, Present, Future possible integrations into = pipe > organs. > > There's a lot to talk about, Let's get on with it! > > Ron Severin > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Allen spinets, bishops and goal-posts From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:14:56 -0700   Hmmm ... I wonder if he's in our neck of the woods? I was inquiring about = a neighboring Anglican post a couple of years ago, but friends informed me = that they had an Allen spinet (remember THOSE?) and favoured the "Dropkick Me, Jesus" style of music (grin) ... BTW, this was a VERY wealthy parish in = San Clemente, CA.   Cheers,   Bud   JKVDP@aol.com wrote:   > I have a friend, whose name shall not be revealed for obvious reasons. = He > actually had this sung this at his Lutheran Church on Superbowl Sunday! = He > no longer works for the Lutherans. Now he is a bishop in one the the > continuing Anglican Churches - like where Bud is. > > >Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life > >End over end, neither left nor to right > >Straight through the heart of them righteous uprights > >Dropkick me, Jesus, through the goal posts of life > > > Jerry in Seattle > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-L Discussions From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:33:58 EDT   Dear Paul:   I know Catholics are picked on. That should never enter any discussion = about pipe organs. It quite simply doesn't belong here. I have refrained myself, from =   getting into unnecessary stupid brouhaha's about it, but I think since you brought = it up, that anyone slurring religious groups should be thrown off this discussion = group for good. No exceptions! I think that the Piporg-L owners would agree with =   that too.   Perhaps a private go bash your neighbor hot line would work for those = folks, but not Piporg-L. This kind of garbage doesn't belong here we are all happy with = our respective ways of worshiping God hopefully, and animas,slurrs, and = downright hatred do not belong in discussions about organs. Neither should agenda = topics be included into the mix either. You who do it know exactly what I mean = too!   We talk hopefully about PIPE ORGANS! Nothing else! I think I've made = myself extremely clear as to the intended purpose of this discussion group.   SOLI DEO GLORIA!   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Estey 2-manual and Pedal for sale From: <Devon3000@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:42:45 EDT   A nice reed organ, presently in pieces, is available for free. One of the =   members of my church was in the process of rebuilding, and lost interest. =   He's selling the house and the organ will be trashed unless someone = rescues it.   I recall playing it several years ago, and it would make a great practice organ. Blower included, I believe. If interested, contact me and I'll = put you in touch with him.   Devon Hollingsworth, in Chicago Suburb (Organ is in Elmhurst, also a = suburb)  
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-L Discussions From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 12:46:17   At 03:00 PM 7/12/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Dear Bud etal: > >You guys must be bored looking for someone to devour. Is there a thread here, >or >are we tired and threadbare. We've killed off organ shoes, practice = organs, >home >organs, etc. Where have all the discussions gone about the pipe = organ?<snip>   Methinks something's amiss here....   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Estey 2-manual and Pedal for sale From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 16:02:55 EDT   Dear Devon:   I wish he was closer, I'd pick it up in a heartbeat. It shouldn't take = more than an afternoon to put it back to rights. I used to own one and I wished I still =   had it. There are extremely valuable, I saw an eight ranker for sale, $20,000.00. This one may be worth half that if all the parts are there.   Sincerely,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-L Discussions From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:08:44 -0700   To quote Bart Simpson, "I didn't do it" (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 03:00 PM 7/12/2000 EDT, you wrote: > >Dear Bud etal: > > > >You guys must be bored looking for someone to devour. Is there a thread > here, > >or > >are we tired and threadbare. We've killed off organ shoes, practice = organs, > >home > >organs, etc. Where have all the discussions gone about the pipe = organ?<snip> > > Methinks something's amiss here.... > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Performance Anxiety (was Re: Peter Hurford) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:13:02   At 07:21 PM 7/11/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Robert Triplett has written a book entitled "STAGEFRIGHT -- Letting It = Work >For You" which offers many useful strategies for one to deal with one's = own >fears of performance -- in many different situations and circumstances.   "Self-help" books like this can be good, if the condition isn't too bad. Panic/Anxiety Disorder is generally classed in three stages...minor, major and severe. Major and severe cases require medication and concentrated therapy, which are quite successful, if properly administered. P/A is = also a progressive condition, that is, it gets worse with age if untreated. Sometimes, interdiction through "self-help" can be good early training on how to cope with the disorder, but the sufferer must be aware that it can and does come back later in life, and be able to seek treatment when necessary.   As a clinical phychologist remarked to me recently, "Our knowledge of the workings of the human brain has advanced in the 20th century more than any time in man's history...and we STILL know precious little!" That said, it must be realized that treatment of this and other disorders, such as clinical depression, are often a "hit-or-miss" proposition. New drugs = that help to achieve neurotransmitter balance come out all the time; some work well, some don't, some work selectively among patients, and almost all = have lingering side effects. The general population, of course, still regards such maladies as being "all in one's head"...which, indeed, they are. However, research in the last 50 years shows that many of these maladies are indeed chemical imbalances caused by malfunction of one sort or another. Modern life, with its pressures and increasing information overload, certainly stress human systems a great deal more than that which happened to our forebearers. Seratonin depletion, leading to clinical depression, is a real modern plague, affecting millions of Americans.   Much of what is contained in books such as Triplett's can be classified as a form of "cognitive therapy"; that is, the patient's "reprogramming" of him/herself around a particular fault, knowing such a fault exists, and taking cognitive steps to modify behavior around it. Minor instances of P/A DIsorder can be treated this way, especially early in life. However, one should always be aware of the "snake oil" factor. There are as many "self-help" books out there are anyone could possibly have problems to solve. Some are good, others are simply a way for the author to cash in = on a particular widespread affliction and can actually do damage. A couple = of sessions with a reputable cognitive therapist in order to define one's situation and seek ongoing solutions is time well spent.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: PLEASE READ: Re: Piporg-L Discussions From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:19:49 -0500   Folks   I think I had better step in here before this topic takes a life of its own and does turn into name calling, etc. I am not sure where the Subject line came from especially considering this is the PIPECHAT list not the Piporg-l list. And I am not sure what the remark about "name-calling" is referring to - I am probably just as confused as some of the rest of you are.<G> I am guessing that the original poster of this thread is on several of the organ lists and is getting them confused.   Just let me interject a couple of thoughts here. The discussions are up to YOU. If there is something that you would like to have discussed then introduce it - don't wait for others to do it for you. Although this list is PRIMARILY for organ discussion - and that includes both classical and theatre / pipe and electronic - the subject of church music does enter in from time to time. Bud's recent postings about Victorian Choral music is fine since there are other people on the list that can help him out. It may not be completely on topic but is germane to many folks that are employed as organists and choirmasters.   I would suggest that you all go read the List Guidelines on our web site (http://www.pipechat.org/netiquet.html) regarding this list. Although they are not specifically mentioned in those guidelines the only PROHIBITED topics are ones that have to do with Politics and Denominational matters. In these topics we do get into a name-calling, flame-throwing mess.   If there is something you don't like about the tone of the postings or the subject matter then address your concerns to Peter and myself at the Administration address. It is up to us as List Owners and Administrators to make the decisions as to what is permissible and what isn't. All of that is covered in the List Guidelines.   Any questions on this should be taken up with Peter and myself privately and not on the list - End of Topic!   And now back to some Happy PipeChatting   David     **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org 850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: List Guidelines From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 15:31:58 -0500   Just to follow up on my previous posting I have decided to send out the List Guidelines to everyone subscribed to the list. I know that some lists do this fairly frequently but we have hardly ever sent a mass mailing of them to the list members. But it might be good for everyone to read them.   David ************************************************** Netiquette   1. Be kind to one another.   2. Please respect other list members points of view, we are all individuals and entitled to our opinions, that's what makes life interesting :):)   3. One rule applies absolutely -- NO FLAMING UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES. The list owners will be reading each post and if we see flaming going on you will be warned once. If there is a repeat, you will be removed from the list.   Guidelines   1. Have fun. (It's the only polite thing to do here)   2. Make friends. (How do you make friends? Listen to other people. Validate their thoughts and feelings. Be willing to tolerate and accept them as they are. Have fun.)   3. Learn tolerance. Discuss ideas, rather than judging people.   4. Maintain a sense of humor. There's nothing like a good slice of humor for breaking up a flame war.   5. Use lots of smileys and poses. It is difficult to read tone of voice. This helps the humor impaired.   6. If something someone has said upsets you, ask for clarification first without the use of emotional language. They may have been joking or they may even reconsider their comments.   7. If someone on the PipeChat mailing list has written something which distresses you, you can always privately ask Pete or David to pummel some sense into them :) Do not use up mailing list bandwidth doing so yourself.   8. Please do not use up mailing list bandwidth explaining Netiquette to those poor lost newbies. It's not what this list is about. If you must, do so privately.   9. When responding to a message, quote only the relevant bits. No one is going to want to read your message if they have to dredge through miles of previous messages. Besides, it wastes bandwidth.   10. Please keep signatures to around four lines long.   11. Members of this list are allowed to wander off topic provided what they have to say is interesting or humorous.   12. Mail will be handled immediately by the List-Server. If there are any further delays, we apologize, however, they are out of our control.   13. Please reply generally to the list. However, please consider wether it would be better to reply to the individual rather than the list, thus reducing list traffic.   14. What to post? Anecdotes.... sadnesses.... joys.... Anything you feel comfortable posting. You will soon pick up if the list is going to respond to your topic.   15. Please think twice before posting. For those who are not on Digest form, it is very easy to overlow their mail boxes, please be considerate of others on the list.   16. What not to post! Items that have nothing at all to do with PipeChat and its guidelines--e.g. Virus warnings, Test messages, Chain letters, Church matters that are not music related or topics that are better dealt with by other lists.. If you feel uncertain as to the content of any email, please send it to the Admin address and we will guide you as to wether we feel it should be posted or not.   17. Finally, this is a place to enjoy yourself, feel relaxed about music, pipe organs, theater organs, church organs, electronic organs and church music. Make the list what you want it to be. And LOTS of HUMOR PLEASE :) **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org 850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 13:50:55   Off the the bookshelves I go in search of documentation on the Unda Maris. Indeed, Audsley reports ("Art Of Organ Building", p. 569, v. I) that this stop indeed predates Skinner by many years. Cavaill=E9-Coll was evidently fond (no pun intended) of them, as was Walcker in Germany. He notes that they "are sometimes made of wood", validating what has been said here by others. How the connection of the stop to Skinner came about was probably because of his rather liberal use of the stop, especially in his "catch-all" Choir divisions. However, Audsley's writings show that it was a well-developed and popular stop in Romantic-era Continental organs, so the claim by Skinner that he "invented" this stop is patently false. Perhaps the same can be said for his oft-touted "Erz=E4hler", really a slotted Gemshorn with the typical Skinner narrow mouth, making it suitable for higher wind pressures. However, nothing I see shows the Erz=E4hler name prior to Skinner's use of it.   DeserTBoB