PipeChat Digest #1512 - Thursday, July 13, 2000
 
Re: Diversity  [was: Celestes]
  by "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org>
Trinity Cathedral's Skinner
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Oberlin's Skinner
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
P.O.E. & Recital Programs (Cross Posted)
  by "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: Trinity Cathedral's Skinner
  by <ManderUSA@aol.com>
Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Piporg-L Discussions
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Ever heard of the LHPO?
  by "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org>
National Shrine of the Little Flower
  by "Bruce Behnke" <behnke@lvcm.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #1511 - 07/12/00
  by "Bruce Behnke" <behnke@lvcm.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #1511 - 07/12/00
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Trinity Cathedral's Skinner
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy
  by "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net>
Re: Dropkicks
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Ludwigtones and Holtkamps
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Diversity  [was: Celestes]
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Diversity  [was: Celestes]
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Diversity [was: Celestes] From: "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:30:44 -0400   > The late Dr. Edwin Arthur Kraft at Trinity Cathedral in Cleveland > (4-manual E.M. Skinner ... still there, but boarded up and > derelict ... replaced by a couple of Flentrops) used to make a > striking solo combination out of the Swell Oboe, Vox Celeste, > Nazard, tremulant, and maybe a couple of other things ... I forget ... > the registration is recorded in his edition of favorite Bach > chorale preludes. I think he used it for "O Mensch Bewein", but the > book is at church.   Well, maybe someone there could take a cue from Duke University chapel as = long as there's still enough of the old Skinner left to restore. Hopefully, = they just boarded it up and didn't haul off the works.   Duke Chapel can now boast of its versatility with its restored AEolian for = the romantice era music _and_ a very fine Flentrop for resounding baroque recitals. I think it's a great idea and I enjoy both. (But gotta say = that hearing Widor on that Flentrop was a magnificent experience!) I have = heard that Duke uses both each one for various parts of their service. Sort of = like having a fine manual transmission sports car _and_ an automatic shift = luxury touring sedan to my mind. Not everyone enjoys both nor is everyone = fortunate enough to have both. It would be truly great if they could pull it off!!   I haven't heard the recently restored AEolian yet. Has anyone in NC had = the opportunity and have any reports on it? It was pretty wheezy and run down =   when I was there. Nice to know that these are being looked at again. However, I hope that we can learn from the mistakes of the past and not = muck up the good trackers that have been built.   Bruce, you're not the only one here who enjoys baroque music and trackers. = dB, hope this doesn't permanently put me on you s***-list. It's a big = world. There's lot's of room for diversity. I'd rather enjoy it than curse it!!   Cheers, TommyLee ::who is now ducking and covering!::    
(back) Subject: Trinity Cathedral's Skinner From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:48:23 -0700   Unfortunately, I think it's more Schantz than Skinner ... the choruses, mixtures and at least some of the chorus reeds were changed in the '60s or '70s. That would only leave some of the flutes and strings, the big Pedal stops and the Skinner solo stops. Probably not much but that pipework is worthy salvaging.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Oberlin's Skinner From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 18:55:22 -0700   The E.M. / G.D.H. Skinner from Finney Chapel went to an Episcopal Church in Virginia ... anybody know where?   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: P.O.E. & Recital Programs (Cross Posted) From: "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:07:44 -0400   Dear Listers,   I have taken the liberty to cross post this becasue I truly think the message is for everyone !   The Syracuse (NY) Chaper of the AGO is hosting a Pipe Organ Encounter this week, Twenty Five kids ! There are a couple of these youngsters that are truly wonderful !!!!!!! (Felix: Watch out for them !)   Hopefully, Bonnie Beth Derby will provide you with a more complete account of their activites, but let me just say thay are Good and have been very busy while here.   On Tuseday evening they were "entertained" with a recital by Todd Wilson on the HOltkamp at Hendrix Chapel, SyracuseUniversity. NOTE: This is NOT the 70+ rank CRouse College Holtkamp, but rather the "Other one" a 50+ rank instrument at the University Chapel.   I don't have them in front of me, but I will get the spec for those specification hounds........   Since there has been a recent thread on the "boredom" presented by many organ recitals I tink you will find Todd's program just what you've been talking about ! There is not a boring thing here !   TODD WILSON In Concert Hendricks Chapel Syracuse University July 11,2000   Variations on "America" Ives   Preludes on Early American Hymn Tunes George Shearing There is a Happy Land I Love Thee, My Lord   Ride of the Valkyries (arr. Dickinson/Lockwood) Organ duet with Tom Trenney     Intermission   Variations on a Noel Marcel Dupre   Andante Sostenuto (from Symphonie Gothique)   Pageant Leo Sowerby     Encore:   The Pink Panther Theme Arr. Tom Trenney Pedal solo for 4 feet Mr. Wilson and Mr. Trenney       A wonderful, light and absorbing program.......(and the POE kids loved all the pedal work !!!)     more later...       Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY  
(back) Subject: Re: Trinity Cathedral's Skinner From: <ManderUSA@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:06:41 EDT   In a message dated 7/12/00 9:47:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, quilisma@socal.rr.com writes:   << Unfortunately, I think it's more Schantz than Skinner ... the choruses, mixtures and at least some of the chorus reeds were changed in the '60s or '70s. >>   I recall hearing at the time that Edwin Arthur Kraft wanted Schantz to do nothing but a restoration, and that nothing would be changed from the way Skinner left it. I've been wrong before.   Cheers,   Malcolm www.mander-organs.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 10:02:56 +0800   Yes, Ron, I know. I have a recording from the 1960s here somewhere of Italian organs, and the player uses the undulating stops frequently. It is a beautiful sound. Over 50 years ago I played a very large harmonium (French) which had double reeds on one or two stops, each with two tongues slightly off tuned to each other to form a celeste. The sound was stringy and the beat slow. It was very effective. This harmonium had two manuals and a large number = of stops. The manuals were based on a 16 foot chorus and I seem to remember that the great had a 32' stop. I remember playing the great up an octave = to get rid of the mud! This reed organ originally belonged to a Benedictine monk in the Benedictine Abbey at New Norcia, West Australia, Dom Moreno. Dom Moreno = who was the musician for the Abbey, was responsible for the installation in = the Abbey Procathedral, of the most unusual large two manual organ by Moser of Munich (1923). I posted a stoplist of ths instrument some time ago but if anyone is interested I can post it again. Bob Elms.     RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   > Dear Bob: > > Add the Italian organ builders to the list as the 17th and 18th Century > organs had > Voce Humana celestes with the Principalino 8' rank. > > Ron Severin > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: Piporg-L Discussions From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:52:15 EDT   In a message dated 7/12/00 3:58:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << Methinks something's amiss here.... >>   OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!   you woke up DeSseRt BoOb! wooooooohoooooooooooooooo   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Ever heard of the LHPO? From: "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:55:52 -0400   Hello all, Speaking of pipe organs and flames, any comments on this one? Got this from a friend who knows that I am an organ-nut. I don't believe that it will help us stem the tide of the decline of organ music, though. Enjoy!   Cheers! TommyLee ::who has taken a moment to take a peek, but is now ducking again!:: ------ Forwarded Message   http://www.lhpo.org/ Large Hot Pipe Organ The Large Hot Pipe Organ is the world's only MIDI controlled, propane powered explosion organ. The LHPO's p yro-acoustic explodo-rhythmations will throbbatize your earholes and dance-ify your booty and make you realize what "Industrial Music" REALLY means! Performing live at contemporary art festivals throughout Austria, Germany, Denmark, and Holland, the LHPO is an experience of sound, light, heat, rhythm and fire you won't want to miss. ------ End of Forwarded Message    
(back) Subject: National Shrine of the Little Flower From: "Bruce Behnke" <behnke@lvcm.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 00 19:47:45 -0700   Scott said, but I don't have a clue why:   >and is in 100% operable condition. 'Nuf said. >(OK tracker backers- argue THAT one.)   What kind of silly nonsensical statement is this?   I have never criticized your instrument or you for playing that instrument. Why must you turn around and bait someone else who doesn't happen to agree with your choices but is perfectly happy to let you play what you want. It is the same idiocity as the MAC vs. PC argument. This is not theology folks it is a choice of tool. The best organ or computer or for that matter temperament is the one that works best for you not for everybody. Lets grow up and get on with it.   Bruce  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #1511 - 07/12/00 From: "Bruce Behnke" <behnke@lvcm.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 00 20:00:40 -0700   DB says:   >Of course, I fully expect a backlash from the "tracker-backer/pipes-only"   As a card carrying member of the tracker backer association as well as the founding member of the Death to Equal Temperament Society let me say this one more time. I do not criticize your instrument or you. I do not criticize your choice of temperament. Every situation is different and comes with it own sets of compromises to be made. If you are comfortable with your situation and can truly make beautiful music on the instrument that you have, that is wonderful and I am happy for you. Why must you continue to issue the above kind of statement to others simply because they have a view different than yours. Lets please all grow up and have rational discussions and leave the emotional pontificating out of it.   Bruce  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #1511 - 07/12/00 From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:20:23 -0700   'cause it's FUN (evil grin).   Bud, who grew up on a T/P Estey, a Hope-Jones CHURCH organ, and an Aeolian residence organ; gave his first recital on a 4/m E.M. Skinner, helped = install the Flentrops at Oberlin, restored an 1898 Koehnken & Grimm, sold Rodgers, = and LOVES old Hooks, Erbens, Johnsons, Austins, Kimballs, Kilgens, Skinners, = and just about anything ELSE that has pipes OR widgets (EXCEPT Le Grand = Hammond, 'cause there's nothing on it to TINKER with)   Bruce Behnke wrote:   > DB says: > > >Of course, I fully expect a backlash from the = "tracker-backer/pipes-only" > > As a card carrying member of the tracker backer association as well as > the founding member of the Death to Equal Temperament Society let me say > this one more time. I do not criticize your instrument or you. I do not > criticize your choice of temperament. Every situation is different and > comes with it own sets of compromises to be made. If you are comfortable > with your situation and can truly make beautiful music on the instrument > that you have, that is wonderful and I am happy for you. Why must you > continue to issue the above kind of statement to others simply because > they have a view different than yours. Lets please all grow up and have > rational discussions and leave the emotional pontificating out of it. > > Bruce > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Trinity Cathedral's Skinner From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 20:33:44 -0700   Mercifully, I think Dr. Kraft was retired or dead by the time this all happened. I think the incumbent at the time was one Harry Gay ... so it = may have been later... I'm not very good with dates (grin)   Cheers,   Bud   ManderUSA@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 7/12/00 9:47:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > quilisma@socal.rr.com writes: > > << Unfortunately, I think it's more Schantz than Skinner ... the = choruses, > mixtures and at least some of the chorus reeds were changed in the '60s > or '70s. >> > > I recall hearing at the time that Edwin Arthur Kraft wanted Schantz to = do > nothing but a restoration, and that nothing would be changed from the = way > Skinner left it. I've been wrong before. > > Cheers, > > Malcolm > www.mander-organs.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:15:41 -0500   I wonder..........would the Ludwigtone qualify as a celeste stop? -since = it is two pipes back-to-back.   Rick .....who's going to build a few in his shop.    
(back) Subject: Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy From: "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:31:55 -0700   Didn't the Barnes book describe the Ludwigtone as a unison and celeste? = I'm too lazy to go pull my copy off the shelf....   Ray    
(back) Subject: Re: Dropkicks From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 00:39:03 -0400 (EDT)   You know, reading the lyrics, they aren't half-bad. Not terribly great, but there are kernels of truth nestled in the schleck.    
(back) Subject: Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:49:38   At 11:15 PM 7/12/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I wonder..........would the Ludwigtone qualify as a celeste stop? -since it >is two pipes back-to-back.<snip>   Yes, since they're normally mistuned from each other. The Ludwigtone is credited to Holtkamp and Sparling. However, the double-mouthed Doppelfl=F6t= e doesn't get the nod, since both mouths speak from a common air column. The Ludwingtone is interesting, in that it can provide a someone Principal-like soft c=E8leste effect from only one row on the toeboard. Economies could thus be gained over traditional two rank c=E8lestes. I note in what materials I have that these are normally tuned "sharp/flat", however, rather than one rank being unison and another tuned flat or sharp.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 21:59:34   At 09:31 PM 7/12/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Didn't the Barnes book describe the Ludwigtone as a unison and celeste? I'm >too lazy to go pull my copy off the shelf....<snip>   Yes, but Irwin describes it as "flat/sharp". Go figure. I'm not sure but that this Holtkamp invention didn't come around until the late '20s or even later. Audsley doesn't mention it at all, no surprise even if it did exist at the publication of his "Dictionary" in the '20s. Audsley hated c=E8leste= s.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Ludwigtones and Holtkamps From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 22:27:36 -0700   Walter Holtkamp Sr. was drinking buddies with the Rev'd Canon Vivan Peterson, Rector of St. James Episcopal (now Anglican Catholic) Church on 55th Street in Cleveland (a venerable anglo-catholic shrine), and his wife Cornelia (an organ student of Walter Blodgett, sometime organist of St. Paul's Episcopal, Cleveland Heights).   The Holtkamp family church was St. Paul's in the Heights (BEYOND low-church back then), which houses a large Holtkamp. Holtkamp supposedly invented the Ludwigtone to accompany plainsong, although oddly enough one was NOT included in the St. James organ, unless it was subsequently removed.   St. James was the first detached and exposed Positiv, pre-dating both the rueckpositiv he added to the Skinner in the Art Museum and the first true modern American rueckpositiv (also a Holtkamp, restored in the '70s) in St. Philomena's RC in East Cleveland.   Most Ludwigtones I came across in Cleveland were in RC churches, where Gregorian Chant was EXTREMELY rare (grin). The stop disappeared from his later instruments, usually in favor of a Gemshorn and MAYBE a celeste (the closest he would come to building a string stop).   St. James organ was made out of bits and pieces in the '40s ... the church's original Johnson tracker, some Kimball pipes and a chest from East Cleveland Baptist, and some Wurlitzer pipes (and another chest?) from parts unknown. Holtkamp Sr. was a GENIUS at things like that. The organist, Lou Hill (who has been there since the '50s) wrote me recently that they're FINALLY having to replace some of original chests, sixty years later.   Cheers,   Bud        
(back) Subject: Re: Diversity [was: Celestes] From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 01:40:25 EDT   In a message dated 7/12/00 9:36:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tommylee@whitlock.org writes:   << Bruce, you're not the only one here who enjoys baroque music and = trackers. >>   Unfortunately, few seem to be able to grasp the fact that I enjoy some = music of all periods, and all styles of "real" organs.   << dB, hope this doesn't permanently put me on you s***-list. >> Fear not...... EVERYONE is an exofficio member of THAT list! heeheehee (luckily) !!!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Diversity [was: Celestes] From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 23:06:27   At 01:40 AM 7/13/2000 EDT, you wrote: ><< dB, hope this doesn't permanently put me on you s***-list. >> >Fear not...... EVERYONE is an exofficio member of THAT list! heeheehee   HarrrrrrrrrUMPH!   dB