PipeChat Digest #1514 - Friday, July 14, 2000
 
Re: Hook and Hastings Centennial Organ in St. Joseph's Old	Cathedral in B
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Re: Hook and Hastings Centennial Organ in St. Joseph'sOld	Cathedral in  B
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Resultant
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Resultant
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Double Flutes, etc.
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Double Flutes, etc.---another observation
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: Resultant
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: National Shrine of the Little Flower
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Hook and Hastings Centennial Organ in St. Joseph's Old Cathedral in Buffalo, New York. From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 23:46:39 -0400 (EDT)   When I was in Buffalo for the AGO Region II convention (summer of 1997), I really enjoyed this organ. It seemed to have so much character and presence.   Just my 2 pennies worth.   Neil P.S.: Buffalo is home to many fine (I do mean fine) organs.    
(back) Subject: Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 22:48:09 -0500   The Doppelflote in the my Moller is a wood stopped flute pipe that has a mouth on both sides, so it would require only one voice. (It is not a double pipe but a single pipe with 2 mouths.) As far as I can tell, It was made this way to have a louder or a clearer sound. I will find out when I get it playing. Luther -----Original Message----- From: MickBerg@aol.com <MickBerg@aol.com> Date: Thursday, July 13, 2000 9:16 PM     In a message dated 7/12/00 10:05:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << However, the double-mouthed Doppelfl=F6te doesn't get the nod, since both mouths speak from a common air column. >>   The Klann console that contains my PC Organ has a DoppelFlute drawknob on the Great. How can I duplicate the sound of this stop? What does it sound lik= e? Would I need two "ranks" to accurately represent this stop? Useful and helpful suggestions only please, don't turn this into a digital-bashing session. Thanks, Mick Berg.      
(back) Subject: Re: Hook and Hastings Centennial Organ in St. Joseph'sOld Cathedral in Buffalo, New York. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:02:33 -0700   I think the last rebuild took place between the time I played it and you heard it (grin). I'm happy to hear that it once again sounds like a Hook.   Cheers,   Bud   Innkawgneeto@webtv.net wrote:   > When I was in Buffalo for the AGO Region II convention (summer of 1997), > I really enjoyed this organ. It seemed to have so much character and > presence. > > Just my 2 pennies worth. > > Neil > P.S.: Buffalo is home to many fine (I do mean fine) organs. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Resultant From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:14:29   At 09:31 PM 7/13/2000 -0400, you wrote: >What is a Resultant and how does it work. I understand that two pipes >play together at different tones to create the sound, but >how---mechanically and otherwise >Are you not hearing the original sound of the 2 pipes?<snip>   Yes, and also and intermodulation, or "beating", of the two original frequencies, each a fifth apart, sounding exactly an octave below the = lower of the two. Acoustical resultants work best when the two beating pipes = are placed next to each other on the toeboard (or offset, usually), a fact = most builder never quite understand. Resultants made by electronic pedal channels are MUCH more effective, but require hardy drivers and lots of power to work effectively. The beating in an electronic channel isn't hampered by acoustic interference, and thus is usually louder. The "difference" product of intermodulating the two original tones is what's sought after here, making 32' bass where there is but 16', and 64' where there is but 32'. Of course, the resultant tone cannot be any higher in amplitude than either of its modulated tones; weakening either tune = weakens the resultant by a proportional amount.   Bourdons are of much use in creating a successful resultant, due to their lack of harmonic development. Another favorite is to beat a full voiced pedal principal with a bourdon a fifth above.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Resultant From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:16:30   At 09:01 PM 7/13/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I just realized that after I hit send- we have many small chamber organs >with 8' (actual length) stopped pipes and great bass.<snip>   A stopped 8' (nominal) pipe speaks at 16' pitch, hence the "great bass".   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:43:07   At 11:38 PM 7/13/2000 EDT, you wrote: ><< However, the double-mouthed Doppelfl=F6te > doesn't get the nod, since both mouths speak from a common air column. >> > >The Klann console that contains my PC Organ has a DoppelFlute drawknob on the=20 >Great. How can I duplicate the sound of this stop? What does it sound like?<snip>   Although Allen was quite found, in the '40s and '50s, of using this stop name as one of their "solo" stops, it never came close...came out as just yet another bourdon! I've only played an organ with one example of the Doppelfl=F6te. It was a somewhat loud stop for a stopped flute of this scale, heavy in fundamental, but also having a good odd harmonic train. Although the first four harmonics are quite pronounced, and taper smoothly, it doesn't sound "quinty", like most other stopped flutes. I remember the fifth harmonic being quite audible in its tone, and a trace of the flatted 21st of the seventh. It was rumored that the example I played came from a Roosevelt organ, but no idea if that is true.   >Would I need two "ranks" to accurately represent this stop?<snip>   No, it's two mouths on a SINGLE air column.   On that magical tonal comparitor, the Hammond, I can make a reasonable 8' Doppelfl=F6te (as I remember it, anyway) with the following drawbar setting: 00 7051 400 20.   Hammond fans note: Once again, the extra four harmonics of the H-100 make themselves useful! <sticking tongue out at 9 drawbar model owners and fans>   Digitall organ fans note: All your digitorg is is a very refined Hammond...you KNOW that, I'm sure....hehehe!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:46:11   At 10:48 PM 7/13/2000 -0500, you wrote: >The Doppelflote in the my Moller is a wood stopped flute pipe >that has a mouth on both sides, so it would require only one voice.<snip>   M=F6ller indeed built a fair number of Doppelfl=F6tes, even up to the end of the Whitelegg era. He supposedly admired the stop quite a bit. The one I played was in a more modern M=F6ller, and supposedly the installed told the committee the rank involved was from an old, parted-out Roosevelt. <---obligatory content to horrify OHS members.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Double Flutes, etc. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jul 2000 21:58:14 -0700   At the risk of sounding like an uncritical H & H fan, one of the most = gorgeous Double Flutes I ever heard was in the 1900 H & H in Old St. Paul's in Cincinnati. As I recall, it was the sole 8' flute on the Great, and it = fulfilled the function of a big French harmonic flute in those spacious acoustics. = In the Guilmant Marche Funebre & In Paradisum, it sounded like a harp. But it was = also quick enough on its feet to play Bach in combination with the 2' = Fifteenth.   Sadly, the organ is no more. I think I read in the The Tracker that the = pipes have been planted on new mechanism elsewhere. I hope so ... that was a magnificent organ, quite different both from the Skinners of my childhood = and the Flentrops at Oberlin, but having the best characteristics of both, = perhaps.   Cheers,   Bud            
(back) Subject: Re: Double Flutes, etc.---another observation From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 01:49:26 EDT   Being quite a fan of Doppelflutes--I have 4 example ranks in my = collection. One gen-u-ine Roosevelt, one Austin from 1913, one Moller from the 50's = and one no-name, newer. What Bob and Bud have observed, are my conclusions as =   well. What seems to me to be interesting is how quick they are on their feet,,,,each rank seems equally so. Quick speech is not usually a strong point in stopped flutes that I have heard. There are no "pinched" toes however,,,in any of my ranks,,,as one would expect. The Roosevelt rank is =   un-nicked and speaks with just the slightest hint of chiff,,,,the Austin = is heavily nicked, full bore open toe,,,and quite loud. It was the solo flute = on the Gt. div. as Bud had mentioned. The Moller is unremarkable as far as my =   ear goes,,,and the newer no name on its original 5 inch wind "hoots" ::somewhat unmusically:: to my ears. Regards to all--- ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: Resultant From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 14:02:22 +0800   A resultant makes use of the heterodyne effect (two pitches played = together produce two other pitches, the sum and the difference of the two frequencies). I have not looked up actual frequencies and what the two = other frequencies are on a pipe organ note but that can easily be worked out = from a frequency chart of the note of a scale at 16 feet pitch. Play low C and low G together and two other pitches are produced by the mixing of the two frequencies. One will be low C at 32' pitch and one will be higher. The higher one will blend with one of the two pitches and will not be = noticeable but the low one comes through as a 32 note.. It is interesting to note the effect of mixing low C at 16' with low G at 8'. It adds "bite" to the low = C and can be very useful. Heterodyne, of course is the means used to tune instruments. Notes played from a reference and from the note being tuned "beat" together until they are perfectly in tune. To tune the note, get rid of the heterodyne beat = or, if using intervals not unison notes to tune, such as fourths and fifths, tune for a certain beat, depending on which tuning scale is being used.   The same heterodyning effect is used in detection of radio signals in communication.. A radio signal sending morse code on 7.100 Mhz will not be heard - it is not a frequency within the range of the human ear. However mixing it with the output of an oscillator at 7.101mHz will produce an audible frequency at 1 khz as well as an inaudible one at the sum = (14.201). The morse code signal at 7.100 is then clearly audible. Bob E.   Paul Soulek wrote:   > I wonder this too- I play many medium sized organs (16-20 rank) with 32' > Resultant stops and there is no sight of anything ever close to a 32' > pipe. > > Paul > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: National Shrine of the Little Flower From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2000 02:33:40 EDT   In a message dated 7/13/00 11:14:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ScottFop@aol.com writes:   << If one places a tracker in the rear gallery WITH the original instrument still in place in the front (as St. Thomas Fifth Avenue in New York has) then that's fine. >>   You fail to realize the the wonderful AEolian-Skinner at St. Thomas Church = is NO MORE. It has been bastardized beyond recognition. I believe this is = one of the churches where EM Skinner reputedly went in and removed his = signature plate!   What is even more sad that this is the fact that some tastes are so narrow =   that only ONE style of instrument will suffice or satisfy. It is the mark = of a true musician when said person has the ability to appreciate a broad variety of styles.   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502