PipeChat Digest #1518 - Sunday, July 16, 2000
 
Doppelflutes
  by "Donald Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com>
Re: "Moaner" Mollers
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Celestes
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: "Moaner" Mollers
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin)
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Aeolines (Re: "Moaner" Mollers)
  by <CHERCAPA@aol.com>
Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Celestes
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Doppelflutes
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: VERY SPECIAL DETROIT AREA RECITAL
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: How to make cakewalk work w/ organs
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Celestes
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Celestes
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
C=E9l=E8stes and slush
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
organ postcard
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and    Ernie-Boy)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
The Book with Seven Seals
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and     Ernie-Boy)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and     Ernie-Boy)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and     Ernie-Boy)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and      Ernie-Boy
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
my birthday
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Happy Birthday, Carlo
  by <KurtvonS@aol.com>
Re: Happy Birthday, Carlo
  by <KurtvonS@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Doppelflutes From: "Donald Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 07:01:56 -0400   I disagree that Doppelflutes are labour intensive. Once you are set up with jigs etc. to form one part, the second identical piece is in effect made in less time than needed for the first. The cut up is notched with = the bandsaw, so that part is easily duplicated as well. As for comparing the stop to a Gedeckt, one is able to obtain a big liquid sound with a relatively low cut up, so it has more character than a loud gedeckt.   We have made two sets within the last few years, and you can hear one here--it is the lower part of a duo, and perhaps doesn't show its solo possibilities.   http://www.pandk.com/holyt.htm   Don       ********************* http://www.pandk.com ********************  
(back) Subject: Re: "Moaner" Mollers From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 06:58:50 -0500   quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote: > I still wanna know what they did with those Swell Aeolines, though ... > maybe you COULD hear them when the organs were new and the wind-leaks > and the Spencer concrete mixers didn't drown 'em out (grin).   In Victorian organs the main purpose of the Aeoline was seen as a stop which could be used for accompanying solos on the Dulciana. These were particularly useful for the soft bits diuring communion.   John Speller  
(back) Subject: Re: Celestes From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 07:16:44 -0500   Cremona502@cs.com wrote: >=20 > In a message dated 7/12/00 2:21:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes: >=20 > << I have heard of organs in Australia that use the nazard or tierce as= one > rank of > a celeste. It would most likely be a flute celeste of course. >> >=20 > I've tried this in a limited way, since I have to play two chords on se= parate > manuals; but it seems to work really well. Flute celestes seem to no= t > require as meticulous tuning as strings. Its a very etherial effect,= but > it takes two people playing to really make it work!!   Back in the 1960's, when I was a teenager growing up in England, the firm of Daniel of Clevedon built a new two manual instrument at Halse Parish Church in Somerset, near Taunton. This had a Swell Tierce that was borrowed from the Swell 8' Vox Angelica (tuned flat). This worked after a fashion. Another thing I have seen sometimes (especially on M=F6ller organs) is to borrow a 1.1/3' from the 8' Salicional or Gemshorn. Those pipes that are used only on the 8' or 1.1/3' are tuned true, while the overlapping section at the top of the 8' and bottom of the 1.1/3' is tuned as a compromise and again doesn't notice too badly.   John Speller  
(back) Subject: Re: "Moaner" Mollers From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 20:29:43 +0800   Go on! Caleb only needed "swell to oboe" and "great to 15th!!" Trust me! Bob E.   quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > Hey, Bob! You need all those stops to accompany anthems and Services by > Caleb Simper, Berthold Tours, Carrie Adams, John West, etc. etc. etc. > (grin). > > I still wanna know what they did with those Swell Aeolines, though ... > maybe you COULD hear them when the organs were new and the wind-leaks > and the Spencer concrete mixers didn't drown 'em out (grin). > > Cheers, > > Bud > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin) From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 10:19:12 -0500   Barry H Bodie MD wrote: > > I thought the Farm Street Church was a Jesuit Church.   This is correct. It is something of a "High Society" church in London's Mayfair -- kind of the English equivalent of St. Ignatius Loyola, on Park Avenue in New York City. Musically it has a very interesting history. The Belgian Guy Weitz was organist there back in the 1920's, and it was for his choir that Ralph Vaughan Williams wrote his "Mass in G Minor". They also have a quite interesting organ, one of the earliest in the style we now call American Classic. It was built by Henry Willis III, but perhaps owes as much to a collaboration between G. Donald Harrison (who was then working for Willis in London) and Guy Weitz.   John Speller  
(back) Subject: Re: Aeolines (Re: "Moaner" Mollers) From: <CHERCAPA@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:11:42 EDT   Dear Bob, Yeah but what goosebumps.As I often say when I hit a particular group of measures in music I tell people next to me"I now hear the Voice = of God."There is just something about a combination of harmonics and registration and instrument that is the key to that ethereal feeling of "presence". I remember as a child, on a sunny summer day, after lunch = laying on the grass in the yard behind the house looking up at the clouds as they =   slowly wended their way on their journey across the sky, While lying there = I heard a Bach Prelude and Fugue coming from the kitchen window and feeling that all was well with the world.  
(back) Subject: Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 09:16:30 -0700   OK, I may be wrong about the Jesuits (but that would still be a change = that took place AFTER the Act of Toleration), but I'm fairly certain that the Vaughn Williams was written for Sir Richard Terry's choir, the occasion being the consecration of Westminster Cathedral, yes/no?   Cheers,   Bud   "John L. Speller" wrote:   > Barry H Bodie MD wrote: > > > > I thought the Farm Street Church was a Jesuit Church. > > This is correct. It is something of a "High Society" church in London's > Mayfair -- kind of the English equivalent of St. Ignatius Loyola, on > Park Avenue in New York City. Musically it has a very interesting > history. The Belgian Guy Weitz was organist there back in the 1920's, > and it was for his choir that Ralph Vaughan Williams wrote his "Mass in > G Minor". They also have a quite interesting organ, one of the earliest > in the style we now call American Classic. It was built by Henry Willis > III, but perhaps owes as much to a collaboration between G. Donald > Harrison (who was then working for Willis in London) and Guy Weitz. > > John Speller > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Celestes From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 13:02:04 EDT   Dear John Speller:   The mega organs such as Wanamakers, West Point Chapel, and Atlantic City Auditorium organs all have several examples of celestes tuned as mutations Tierce and Nazard. The tuning is carried backward in the rank to fill out = the Celeste either shape or flat. This was not limited to flutes, strings, and soft diapasons such as dulciana were used too. The stop lists available from piporg-l = bear this out. Even St. Patrick's in NYC, I believe has examples of this kind of very effective trick.   I'm surprised this hasn't been done regularly on small organs using say dulcianas. Murray Harris did this sort of thing, but used the unison rank, not the celeste. You in practice get either the mutations or the celestes for free by unification. I think it would be an admirable way to gain these stops at little extra = cost. Polyphony doesn't suffer either.   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Doppelflutes From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:25:54   At 07:01 AM 7/15/2000 -0400, you wrote: >We have made two sets within the last few years, and you can hear one >here--it is the lower part of a duo, and perhaps doesn't show its solo >possibilities.<snip>   An EXCELLENT example of a Dopplefl=F6te's added "punch" in the fifth and seventh harmonics, as well as a prominent third...gives it sort of a haunting, "hollow" sound that attracts the ear. This example has a tad of chiff, but not the dreaded "xylophone" or "Hammond" variety of "retro-fad" organs, showing it has light nicking, if any. A delightful stop!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: VERY SPECIAL DETROIT AREA RECITAL From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 18:31:06 EDT   Angelica Lutheran Church will present concert organist James Hamman in=20 recital on Wednesday, July 19, 2000 at 7:30 pm. =20   Now a resident of New Orleans, LA, Hamman is known to Detroit area musicians= =20 as he was the organist-choirmaster at Detroit's Jefferson Avenue Presbyteria= n=20 Church, the conductor of both the Allen Park Symphony and the Southeastern=20 Michigan Choral Society and the organist-choirmaster at Central United=20 Methodist in Detroit and First Congregational Church on Toledo. In addition= ,=20 he was the representative for the M.P. Moller Organ Company. =20 The featured piece will be Dudley Buck's "Concert Variations on The Star=20 Spangled Banner." Hamman's musicality is highly respected and he has=20 released several digital compact disc recordings of his work which have=20 received very high acclaim. =20 The organ is a 1952 Casavant-Fr=E9r=E8s which is currently undergoing a majo= r=20 renovation and expansion project by the Renaissance Pipe Organ Company of An= n=20 Arbor, Michigan. David Hufford of Renaissance is the Director of Music and=20 Organist at Angelica. =20 A free will offering will be taken and several newly revoiced ranks will be=20 heard for the first time. =20 For further information please contact: Angelica Lutheran Church 8400 Park Avenue Allen Park, MI 48101 (313) 381-2080=20  
(back) Subject: Re: How to make cakewalk work w/ organs From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:29:25   At 03:49 AM 7/15/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Dear Mick Berg: > >You need a Midi Filer such as the Yamaha MDF-3 and a tech who knows how to= =20 >install it for perform and playback.<schniip>   All this emerging technology and application for PC-based digitorgs is quite exciting! Mick's project, along with what's already out there (i.e.; "Ranks-In-A-Box=AE") hold great hope for really good sounding practice instruments in the home. I've ignored MIDI for the longest time, but am finally starting to absorb what can be done with it. Having built quality loudspeaker systems for 30 years, I've got THAT end covered quite well already. Love hearing more about these projects! There are plenty of nice old Allen, Artisan and Rodgers consoles out there, as well as moribund pipe consoles, that are ripe for retrofitting.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Celestes From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 16:35:45   At 01:02 PM 7/15/2000 EDT, you wrote: >I think it would be an admirable way to gain these stops at little extra cost. >Polyphony doesn't suffer either.<snip>   Right-o! One needn't fuss about clarity of polyphony when using c=E9l=E8ste= s, for certain (unless you're Fox, gooshing up a chorale-prelude to the horror of many). Such an arrangement is easily carried out on modern chests (sorry, tracker-backers and slippy-sliders!). In a smallish organ, use of the dulciana is perfect for mutation use, making a fine Unda Maris when in "c=E9l=E8ste" mode.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Celestes From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 20:10:51 EDT   In a message dated 7/15/00 7:43:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << Right-o! One needn't fuss about clarity of polyphony when using c=E9l= =E8stes, for certain (unless you're Fox, gooshing up a chorale-prelude to the horror of many). >>   Well, those that WOULD be horrified by such would probably feel so because=20 they don't know how to do it themselves!!!! Now you're playin' my song! =20 hee hee   Scott Foppiano   PS- Slippy Sliders? now THAT'S good!!!!! =3Do)  
(back) Subject: C=E9l=E8stes and slush From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 20:16:40 EDT   Those of you who have been here will understand the following post because = of the way the organ is laid out- four chambers in the upper west gallery = over 100 feet away from two antiphonal chambers speaking up through the floor.   It's been said that "the Kilgen at the National Shrine of the Little = Flower has the best slush in town right along with the Mighty Wurlitzer at the = Fox Theatre." In fact, one really can get that 16-8-4 string/vox effect that sort of echoes everywhere and rolls around to the point that one really doesn't know where the sound is coming from for sure. Now, see- to me = that's an extremely favorable compliment! <giggle>   Sorry tracker backers and slippy sliders (I think that's what Desert Bob called them)- how many Schwebungs and Tremblants Forte can do THAT???   Scott Foppiano, Shrine, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 19:25:42   At 10:19 AM 7/15/2000 -0500, you wrote: >They also have a quite interesting organ, one of the earliest >in the style we now call American Classic. It was built by Henry Willis >III, but perhaps owes as much to a collaboration between G. Donald >Harrison (who was then working for Willis in London) and Guy Weitz.<snip>   ....thus corroberating the thought that Harrison's =C6olian-Skinner productio= n was more influenced by the Willises than by Cavaill=E9-Coll, as some have mistakenly thought over the years.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: organ postcard From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 23:49:31 -0500   Hello fellow organ grinders+ACE-   A Hawaiian-friend living in San Diego just sent a post card of the Fritts/Richards tracker- OpusV, 1986. 34 stops, 3 manuals and pedal, = unequal temperament . It says -inspired by 17th c. Northern Europe instruments.   Quite a pic- showing the Great facade with the remainder of the instrument behind vertical wood slatted grillework.   The case appears to be oak panels framed in walnut with tall rows of 'stand-on-the-pedals-to-change-stops' arrangement.   I surely wouldn't mind tickling the ivories on this little gem+ACE- -would = need a booster-chair to change stops, tho+ACE-   Rick      
(back) Subject: Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 00:49:42 EDT   In a message dated 7/14/00 9:09:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << Luckily this was a tracker and not the dreaded "bar and membrane" chests which we've all had to deal with at one time or another. A cute little organ for a small church, no doubt...just stay away from the counterpoint! I've played M=F6llers very similar to thi= s, but wasn't lucky enough to have the Doppel on the Great. >>   The pedal had bar and membrane chests which worked fine, even after sitting=20 for many years, not even so much as a dead note!   The organ handles counterpoint very well. I was amazed at how clean the=20 ensemble was (is). Unfortunately it sounds sits unused, because it wasn't=20 loud enough and didn't have pistons!!!! They got a Allien!   Bruce=20 .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: The Book with Seven Seals From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 00:49:40 EDT   Below is some interesting news that a friend wanted me to share with the list. Enjoy!     http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/proms/listings/prom48.shtml   On August 20th, the BBC Symphony Orchestra and Chorus will perform the monumental masterpiece by Franz Schmidt: The Book with Seven Seals. The very first London performance. The prominent organ part will be played by =   Timothy Bond. (Anyone have any information on Mr. Bond --- who, presumably, is only distantly related to James Bond!) The conductor will be Franz = Welser-Mo"st.       Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: In the news.... (OFF-TOPIC) (grin) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 01:12:21 EDT   In a message dated 7/15/00 10:41:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << ...thus corroberating the thought that Harrison's =C6olian-Skinner produc= tion was more influenced by the Willises than by Cavaill=E9-Coll, as some have mistakenly thought over the years. >>   Not necessarily! They both could have been intrigued and influenced by=20 Cavaille-Coll! Have another cactus float!! ;-)   Bruce=20 .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 22:24:00   At 12:49 AM 7/16/2000 EDT, you wrote: >The pedal had bar and membrane chests which worked fine, even after sitting= =20 >for many years, not even so much as a dead note!<snip>   They indeed do "work fine"...until they quit! Then, all bets are off. Certainly, SOMEone SOMEwhere has a clue as to how to rebuild these things! I've NEVER seen one redone successfully yet!   >Unfortunately it sounds sits unused, because it wasn't=20 >loud enough and didn't have pistons!!!! They got a Allien!<snip>   Well, although a shame, some of these old-timers were voiced in simpler times, as Tim Bovard explained so well earlier. Now, competition from buses, ghetto blasters, cars, trucks, helicopters, HVAC units, airplanes, jack hammers...whatever...has increased the "ambient noise floor" of many urban settings as much as 40 dBA from 100 years ago...that's 10,000 TIMES the acoustic power! Noo Yawk, for example, is infamous for urban noise pollution. Thus, I can see why the poor little "Toofus" has a hard time speaking anymore...it didn't get quieter, the outside got a lot noiser!   As for the "Allien"...well, perhaps practicality won over artistic merit in this case...like all the rest. It WOULD be nice if the incumbent could play BOTH...Allen for hymns, and the M=F6ller for prelude, communion, etc.; = I guess it depends on the denomination.   DeserTboB  
(back) Subject: Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 01:55:12 EDT   In a message dated 7/16/00 1:37:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << It WOULD be nice if the incumbent could play BOTH...Allen for hymns, and the M=F6ller for prelude, communion, etc.;= I guess it depends on the denomination. >>   AME! 'nuff said!!   Bruce=20 .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 01:56:53 EDT   In a message dated 7/16/00 1:37:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << It WOULD be nice if the incumbent could play BOTH...Allen for hymns, and the M=F6ller for prelude, communion, etc.;= I guess it depends on the denomination. >>   AME! 'nuff said.=20   (hit the button... oops)=20   As with other Methodist churches they are into to the big-band sound with=20 lots of flash and glitz. Loud is best! (sigh)   Bruce=20 .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Doppelflutes (was Re: Unda Marii, Ersatz Gemshorns and Ernie-Boy) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 23:39:21   At 01:55 AM 7/16/2000 EDT, you wrote: >AME! 'nuff said!!<snip>   I'm VERY surprised they didn't go get an old B-3 and 122 Leslie. This = must be a VERY upper crust AME.....   dB  
(back) Subject: my birthday From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 03:03:27 -0400   *happy birthday to me* I turn 30 today.........hurray!!!!!!   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Happy Birthday, Carlo From: <KurtvonS@aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 03:19:38 EDT   Hi, I made it through my 42nd; have a great time on your 30th. I'll bring home the Purvis and scan it for you...thanks for the = Drishner.   Kurt  
(back) Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Carlo From: <KurtvonS@aol.com> Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 03:36:16 EDT   OOps...sorry list; meant to send that privately! Mea culpa due to advancing age!