PipeChat Digest #1533 - Tuesday, July 25, 2000
 
Pipechat IRC tonight
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@post.queensu.ca>
"make it pretty"
  by "Chris Johns" <Chris_Johns@gmx.de>
Eternal Hammond
  by "Bruce Behnke" <behnke@lvcm.com>
Re: Cathedral,  Parish Music and similarities!
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: "Approved"
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: "make it pretty"
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Boellmann's Toccata
  by "antoni scott" <ascott@epix.net>
Re: Church burnt - more details
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Seattle Beranova Hall "FriskyFisky"
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: List topics
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: "Approved"
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: ORGAN-BUILDERS, stay and talk to us
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Cathedral,  Parish Music and similarities!
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by <support@opensystemsorgans.com>
double/triple posting of messages
  by "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <tgregory@speeddial.net>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net>
Re: double/triple posting of messages
  by "Charles Harder" <charder@ties.k12.mn.us>
Re: Cathedral,  Parish Music and similarities!
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net>
free accompaniments
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
[OT] Re: Offtopic:  Having the list of your dreams
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: the Hammond from hell
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 


(back) Subject: Pipechat IRC tonight From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@post.queensu.ca> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:25:00 -0400   Hi, PipeChatters,   PipeChat IRC is again going live this evening, as it always does on = Monday and Friday evenings at 9.00 PM EST. For further information about how to get on board with PipeChat IRC, go = to our Web page: http://www.pipechat.org Have fun, - come see what it is all about! Bob Conway   In a beautiful warm summer's day in Kingston, Ontario, CANADA.    
(back) Subject: "make it pretty" From: "Chris Johns" <Chris_Johns@gmx.de> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:14:12 +0200   DEsSeRt BoB wrote (in an unusually usual mix of upper and lower case...)   >into a time machine that'll take them back the Merrye Olde England is = 1885, >where Queen Vic will smite those in the Church of England that DARE = propose >anything new or different.   Reminds me of the joke: How many Anglicans does it take to change a light bulb? (scroll for = answer)                       CHANGE?!?!?!?!?   Chris Johns (Anglican working for Rome in Germany) Frankenstrasse 5, D-49082 Osnabrueck Tel/Fax +49 (0)541 528 2568 EMail: Chris_Johns@gmx.de    
(back) Subject: Eternal Hammond From: "Bruce Behnke" <behnke@lvcm.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 00 15:30:10 -0700   >But it will BE the Hammond until she DIES;   I have found that a can of Diet Cola inadvertently (you bet) spilled over the keyboard can lead to the early demise of an instrument. It is certainly cheaper and less risky than taking out a contract on the dear old woman.   Bruce  
(back) Subject: Re: Cathedral, Parish Music and similarities! From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:09:40 EDT   Dear Chris:   The most modern music is the improvisation. Pierre Cochereau made several = CD's of his. The beauty is they are never entirely the same from one service to =   another. Playing someone elses music is to my mind a codified and written out improvisation. I improvise my own, on hymn tunes and chants (Gregorian) every Sunday. My style is more like Debusey and not so much like the mad organist. Preludes are calming Offertories and Communions reflective, Postludes are a different story, I open up the organ after the final hymn and use music by someone else as a = contrast.   This regimine works to keep my skills at improvisation tip top, and my reading skills too. For me it's a good balance. In a Cathedral position more is expected = and more can be gotten away with by the organist. Cathedrals have a lot of tourists =   visit, so the attendee's are always changing, and people want to hear these organs. Parish work, which I do, you have to keep people happy because they are pretty = much stuck with you. I follow what they tell me touches them most. and do that. = A Cathedral post is a little more impersonal, so you don't have to put up = with the organ's too loud, too soft, too fast, too slow. Your skills have to be tip =   top and on target to play the music of others as everybody knows the music. = Playing improviations is more freeing and increases both reading and compositional =   skills.   It also keeps the parrots away from the console, and gives you the chance = to play truely modern music, never heard by man before or since. Awe takes over = and comparisons quite simply vanish, because who's going to compare you to = what? or whom? I like that!   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: "Approved" From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:19:55 EDT   In a message dated 7/24/00 2:47:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << A butterknife, gingerly inserted into the floppy disk slot and = manipulated joyfully after thus inserted, will take care of the MIDI disk = problem...if only temporarily! >>   Yeah! Cassette tapes were much easier to deal with. Just a couple of moments over a nice little match would make suitable adjustments in the tape!!!! heeheehee   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: "make it pretty" From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:19:59 EDT   In a message dated 7/24/00 5:26:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Chris_Johns@gmx.de writes:   << What a lot of messages I'm sending today! I'll be competing with the = likes of dB, bReWsE and bUd soon! >>   "THE LIKES OF....." OK guys! LET'S GET 'EM!!!! ;-)   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Boellmann's Toccata From: "antoni scott" <ascott@epix.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:22:19 -0400   To Bob Conway:   Great story !!!     Antoni Scott   Bob Conway wrote: > > All this discussion about the performance of Boellmann's Gothic Suite, > (especially the Toccata), brings to mind that fact that I was brought up = on > the old English Columbia 78 rpm disc recorded by Eduarde Commette, = playing > the organ of St. Jean de Lyon, France, which my father had and which I = would > play incessantly! > > Soon after the war ended, in the late 1940's I did a motorcycling tour = of > France and made a point of going to Lyons to see this wonderful = cathedral, > and with immense luck, heard an elderly man playing the organ. I went = up to > the console, and he nodded to me, indicating that I should stay. When = he > had finished the piece that he was playing, he stopped and warmly = greeted > me, and asked if I played the organ. I had to tell him (in my rather > schoolboy French) that I did not play, but that I had always been = fascinated > by the recording that Eduarde Commette had made of the Boellmann = Toccata. > > To which he replied, "I am he!" - and promptly proceeded to play it for = me. > It was the greatest thrill for this young man, to have a personal > performance of the organ piece that I loved so much, by the organist of = whom > I had always revered. It is a memory that I have treasured for over = fifty > years. > > I still have the LP re-issued version of Eduarde Commette playing the > Boellmann, and it gives me as much pleasure now as it did back in the > 1930's. > > Bob Conway > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Church burnt - more details From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:33:33 EDT   In a message dated 00-07-24 17:54:03 EDT, you write:   << An opportunity for Taylor & Boody in nearby Staunton, VA.... Peter . I suspect that Bill McCorkle will have a new organ installed since the church was very proud = of the one that had been there. TommyLee I can't speak for them since I don't work for them, but I personally doubt =   that they would want to have to put their style of organ in that = particular sanctuary since the organ that was there (Moller 3M 29R, 1959) was under a =   low ceiling abovre the choir seating (exposed great) and the other two divisions plus the pedal stuff was in chambers. There wouldn't be enough height for a free-standing case like T & B builds without re-designing the =   front of the sanctuary. (not to mention the in-the-case playing position = of the organist whichn makes an organist/conductor situation very difficult = if you have a large choir).   Speaking of T & B , they ahve just completed a new organ for Trinity Episcopal church here in Staunton in a newly restored sanctuary. The organ = is to be dedicated in September with a recital by William Porter. More = details will follow.   Rick Maryman Staunton VA  
(back) Subject: Seattle Beranova Hall "FriskyFisky" From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 16:38:37   Well, now! The AGO-goers have vacated Seattle, and I can only assume that most heard the "Frisky" in Beranova Hall (known to locals as "Bill Gates Memorial" or "Microsoft Money"), and I'm waiting to hear the reviews. Obviously, the local press didn't think enough of it to enter a single word in print, although they did indeed do a nice spread about the "Frisky", complete with misinformation about how flue pipes work, and Fisk-fed justification of "TrackerMania" sensibilities.   There's enough about this organ I've seen so far to set me into typical "chew toy" mode, including the unergonomic "quasi-stops-on-the-wall" console design, as well has having a captive console in the fa=E7ade, entirely not necessary and a drawback in a concert hall environment. At least the thing has combination action! Of interest to me is the "electro-tracker" (my term...=A9) servo action, which supposedly mimicks the "player control of the pallet" of tracker action. Again, I submit that on an 83 rank organ, if it indeed DID have trackers, it would be all but unplayable for many pieces of the repetoire, unless the performer was slipped some pain medication prior to performance. So, obviously, a move to this new servo design was made. But why? On an organ using these wind pressures, using an "eclectic" (although teutonic-biased) specification, there would BE no "player control of the pallet" using tracker action...it just wouldn't exist! At anything above, say, 2", the force that must be built up by the player through the trackers and rollers must first overcome wind, at which point the pallet opens immedately as soon as equilibrium of forces of wind and pallet spring force is reached, and the player has NO control of the pallet whatsoever...it falls quickly, with the kinetic energy of the mass of the trackers, rollers, and other paraphenalia maintaining its speed of depression, as well as the player's continued downward force on the key. The only way to provide "player control" would be to have unrealistically strong pallet spring pressures; thus, after initial "breaking of the wind" (phew!), the player's force would still have something in terms of counteractive stored energy to work against, thus being able to indeed slow the pallet's opening...to a small extent. By this time, key/action tension is high enough to be mistaken as a carillon's, and is useless.   This being the case, then WHY is "electro-tracker" even being used here? Is this a NEW type of organ intonation, never heard before? Certainly it isn't "authentic", the battle cry of the member of the TrackerReich. The first (or one of the first) "electro-trackers" was Notr=E9 Dame's Cavaill=E9-Coll, which received hushed, condemning reveiws, as did its reliability. A C-C with Barker levers was NEVER built for "player controlled" action. So why was it added? And, since the Seattle "Frisky" is a concert hall instrument on fair-to-middling wind, why was it used there? It seems to me that two things are happening. 1.) "TrackerMania" is precluding good common sense in concert instruments, to wit tracker and "electro-tracker" actions and 2.) teutonic "retro-fad" voicing and specification holds sway, although some Romantic bones are tossed at "American Classicists", as if to mollify criticism from their quarter, resulting in an unblending mash of contrasting styles, unlike Harrison's melding approach.   Thus, we're at a point where instruments in public performance venues seem to be heading backward in some areas, notably specification, voicing and a complete disregard for console ergonomics, pioneered over 100 years ago. I shudder to think what the "Wizzly Hall" mess, as assembled by TrackerReichsFeuhrer Josef von Glatter-G=F6tz (clicking heels), is going to turn out like in Los Angeles. Fesperman, in his TrackerBacker tome of the '60s "The Organ as a Musical Medium", seems to justify TrackerMania, because the bulk of what had been written for the organ up to the then-present resides in the Baroque. Are we then to discard Jongen's superlative work for organ and orchestra, or the less formidable but quite servicable output of Poulenc? What about Dupr=E9? Saint-Saens? What about NEW composers, who need an instrument that can BLEND with an orchestra, rather than screech over it?   No wonder orchestral musicians laugh at us!   DeserTBoB   ("It's always good to start the week with a real go-getter column...gets the readers all stirred up for rest of the week!" --Hedda Hopper)  
(back) Subject: Re: List topics From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:09:10   At 03:50 PM 7/24/2000 EDT, you wrote: >but would really like to have a place where only pipe organs were >discussed.<snip>   Hmmmm...it sounds like the TrackerReich is going into secret meetings....   You guys don't all wear brown shirts, do ya? <snicker snarf>   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: "Approved" From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 17:07:12   At 03:50 PM 7/24/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Yesterday, when I played the Purvis "Canzona on Liebster Jesu" I really >jazzed up the melody with glanced notes and funky rhythmic devices. It = was >too cool! It was almost slutty!!! heeheehee<schniip>   One must remember, after all, that Purvis got his start as a theater organist on the Mighty WurliTzer (a fact he always tried to conceal during his tenure at Grace, and which Porter Heaps needled him about at = gatherings constantly), which is most reflected in his works of the 40s. Thus, a little chordal gliss and lots of rubato here and there, as well as a detached bass line, is definately indicated!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: ORGAN-BUILDERS, stay and talk to us From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:13:47 +0800   Neither do I. This is a city. However I do not know an organist who could = not tune his own reeds. Bob E.   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > > > Yes, 'tis true in more urban and suburban settings. We don't live in = the > outback, mate! > > DeserTBoB >    
(back) Subject: Re: Cathedral, Parish Music and similarities! From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:00:23 -0500   RonSeverin@aol.com wrote:   > Dear Chris: > > The most modern music is the improvisation. Pierre Cochereau made = several CD's > of his. The beauty is they are never entirely the same from one service = to > another. > Playing someone elses music is to my mind a codified and written out > improvisation. > I improvise my own, on hymn tunes and chants (Gregorian) every Sunday. = My > style > is more like Debusey and not so much like the mad organist.   There is, however, a danger to this; one organist of my acquaintance who improvises on a regular basis, and who is the parent to a toddler, = frequently slips in motifs--melodic fragments or chord sequences--from television = shows geared to that age group. I am absolutely convinced that this is not an intentional effort.   ns    
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: <support@opensystemsorgans.com> Date: 24 Jul 2000 18:00:44 -0700   Why not MIDI-ize the thing and hook it up to something nice? Even a pipe = organ!   She'll never notice. It'll LOOK the same.   Dick Meckstroth      
(back) Subject: double/triple posting of messages From: "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <tgregory@speeddial.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 20:52:46 -0500   Greetings:   In the past several weeks I have noticed there not only double, but sometimes triple posting of the same message on pipeorg, pipechat and organchat.   Is this really necessary?   Fortunately, I receive messages in digest form. Otherwise I would have = over 100 messages daily!   I, and probably many other list members, would appreciate messages posted = to only one list.   Sincerely,   Thomas Gregory  
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 21:16:10 -0500   support@opensystemsorgans.com wrote: > > Why not MIDI-ize the thing and hook it up to something nice? Even a = pipe organ! > > She'll never notice. It'll LOOK the same. > > Dick Meckstroth >   I'd go for the "spill the Diet Coke on the keyboard" thing. But then, what if she buys another one???   Paul  
(back) Subject: Re: double/triple posting of messages From: "Charles Harder" <charder@ties.k12.mn.us> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 21:27:59 -0500 (CDT)     >In the past several weeks I have noticed there not only double, but >sometimes triple posting of the same message on pipeorg, pipechat and >organchat. > >Is this really necessary?     Yes, it is necessary and I welcome it. Not everyone subscribes to all three lists or even to two lists.     Charles Harder      
(back) Subject: Re: Cathedral, Parish Music and similarities! From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:12:52   At 08:00 PM 7/24/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I am absolutely convinced that this is not an >intentional effort.<snip>   Ah...just what we need! Improvisation on "Barney"!   "I love you...you love me..."<ker-POW!>   Take THAT, you purple bahstahd!  
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 19:32:05   At 09:16 PM 7/24/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I'd go for the "spill the Diet Coke on the keyboard" thing. But then, >what if she buys another one???<snip>   Ham/Suz hasn't made the 825 for years...thankfully. However, he could get stuck with a successor Model 926, or a Dutch built CS-235, both being better than the 825, but lacking the 825's fancy-schmancy panelled oak console! heheheh.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 22:00:20 -0500   Bob Scarborough wrote: > > At 09:16 PM 7/24/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >I'd go for the "spill the Diet Coke on the keyboard" thing. But then, > >what if she buys another one???<snip> > > Ham/Suz hasn't made the 825 for years...thankfully. However, he could = get > stuck with a successor Model 926, or a Dutch built CS-235, both being > better than the 825, but lacking the 825's fancy-schmancy panelled oak > console! heheheh. > > DeserTBoB >   But if she found out about the Vintage Hammond (http://vintagehammond.com) thing....oh boy!!!   Paul Who by the way CAN'T STAND the look and sound of a Hammond. Makes me sick just thinking about them....  
(back) Subject: free accompaniments From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:01:51 -0400   I'm looking for some information regarding a book of free accompaniments = by Webb. Sorry, but I don't know his first initial.   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:08:33 EDT   Dear Paul:   You could always bring on a stop per drawbar position, that would give hundreds of registrational positions, eight to a drawbar. You could set up an eight =   rank mixture to come on a rank at a time, the heck with double draw! I know you're = smiling now, you're supposed to. :) At least the console wouldn't be eight feet tall as = in two rows straight up like our cousins across the pond!   Ron  
(back) Subject: [OT] Re: Offtopic: Having the list of your dreams From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:21:43 -0500   At 7/24/00 01:51 AM, Adrianne wrote:   <snip>   > We're all on this wonderful list thanks to David's blood, sweat, and >charity, so he's the one who gets to make the decisions about what is or = is >not allowed here. There are several hundred Pipechat members.....so what =   >say we all just enjoy the posts we do like, delete what we don't, and = just >be happy to have the choice?   WELL SAID, Ad! <enthusiastic applause>   A few more things that could possibly help occur to me as well, = though...if each of us could sorta think of such things when we read/post/reply to any given message, maybe it would be a bit easier for all the rest of us to sort it out. Please forgive me if I am speaking "out of turn" with the following suggestions (as I am well aware that I am not a Listowner/moderator -- just a concerned member of the List...).   A) subject lines -- Often, it seems that a particular subject line will be retained 'ad nauseum' -- even though the actual course of the discussion has long since drifted off into several entirely different directions. This is probably = a function of the (over?) use of the <reply> button. I think we should all remember that a subject line is intended to reflect the subject of the current message -- *not* what that topic was yesterday, or a week ago. Don't be afraid to 'make up' a new subject line when the situation warrants. Doing so will only make it easier for folks to determine what might be interesting to them.   Another part of this thought might be particularly appropriate for those that recieve the List in digest form -- if the subject line does not = change to reflect differences in the actual discussion, how are those folks to know what is/isn't relevant to any topic in particular?   B) blind replies -- One of the things that tends to irritate *me* (and I speak only for myself here!) is a brief reply to a specific part of a thread that appeared some time ago, with no indication whatsoever of what the original comment (prompting the reply) or who the original author (of said comment) might have been. Usually, these replies also fall under 'A' above -- bearing a subject line that has long since drifted through various topics, and thus being rather impossible to determine the actual meaning of. This is not a suggestion for wholesale quoting of previous posts -- far from it! -- but we should remember that any given odd comment taken "out of its context" often becomes nonsensical. If something that somebody has said motivates you to reply to it (even if some time after the original comment was made, and especially if the commentary has since moved on elsewhere) it is not difficult to include a brief (relevant) quote of the original message in your reply. It is equally easy to indicate who exactly you might be responding to. Doing so will insure that your point can clearly be made to the whole group.   C) offtopic posts -- One of the things that I (personally) have always enjoyed about Pipechat = is the fact that we all are allowed brief excursions "offtopic". It has always seemed to me that any such excursion usually does, actually, have some connection to something-or-other...but that's irrelevant to the point I'd like to try to make. That point is this: If you wish to post something that you feel might not be "on topic", just label it as such in the subject line (as Ad did with her post that I am now responding to, and as I did with this response to it). Again, this is just a way to insure that the group can know what any given message consists of in context of whatever other postings might be occuring simultaneously -- thus making it easier for any one of us to decide what we personally are/are not interested in reading.   It is my hope in writing all of this that each of us will pause a moment before hitting the <send> button the next time, and think of *all* those that soon might be reading whatever words are about to be broadcast. Any small thing that can be done to help make a point easily undestandable to our widely diverse group seems to me to be a wise investment of time and effort.   Add my name to the list of people that treasure the opportunity we all = have as subscribers to this List -- to learn, to share, to laugh, to lament, to agree, to debate, to support, to be supported,...and on and on. I'm truly glad that I may take part in it all. Thank you, David and Peter, for your kindnesses as our hosts.   Respectfully,   Tim Bovard Little Rock AR        
(back) Subject: Re: the Hammond from hell From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 23:59:35 -0500   >The PROBLEM is the whole business about the widow of the donor of the Hammond >being on the Vestry ... she's DETERMINED that it will be the organ for = all time >per omnia saecula saeculorum until Jesus comes, and that we can "upgrade" it by >adding more Leslies to it as it's moved into successively bigger rooms. > >Bud > It seems to me that it would be somewhat easy to upgrade the console with Peterson and Artisan electronics and connect it to pipes. I'm doing just that to a Moller, and I'm a total greenhorn, if I can do = it, a good organ builder should have no trouble. Luther      
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 00:56:11   At 10:00 PM 7/24/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Paul >Who by the way CAN'T STAND the look and sound of a Hammond.<snip>   They most assuredly ARE an "acquired taste"! However, I've learned over the years that the drawbars of the Hammond are as good a tool as any in training the ear in basic matters of timbre. As for styling, I guess you don't like that "manuals in a wooden basinet" motif (the B), OR the "harmonium on steroids" look (the C, D, E, RT). 'Tis true...they AREN'T very pretty! However, bUd's 825 has, if nothing else, a handsome console!   DeserTBoB