PipeChat Digest #1534 - Tuesday, July 25, 2000
 
Re: Cathedral,  Parish Music and similarities!
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: List topics
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Seattle Beranova Hall "FriskyFisky"
  by "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Eternal Hammond
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Cathedral,  Parish Music and similarities!
  by "Chris Johns" <Chris_Johns@gmx.de>
Re: Seattle Benaroya Hall "FriskyFisky"
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Not your mother's B-3 (wish it WAS)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Not your mother's B-3 (wish it WAS)
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Cathedral,  Parish Music and similarities!
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Cathedral, Parish Music and similarities! From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 05:27:12 -0500   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 08:00 PM 7/24/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >I am absolutely convinced that this is not an > >intentional effort.<snip> > > Ah...just what we need! Improvisation on "Barney"!   Well, it's more often "teletubbies"....    
(back) Subject: Re: List topics From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 19:30:21 +0800   Well go ahead Bruce. Personally I'm getting about 90 posts a day on two = lists and can't handle any more. B.E.   Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > In a message dated 7/24/00 9:00:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes: > > << Lighten up Roy! Life's too short! >> > Life is also too short not to have a place where you can peacefully = exchange > ideas about something that is very special. To me that puts tracker = organs > up on the top. I enjoy war stories about church music, weddings, = funerals, > etc., but would really like to have a place where only pipe organs were > discussed. > > Bruce > . . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles > Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com > HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502 > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: Seattle Beranova Hall "FriskyFisky" From: "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:12:55 -0400   Dear Listers of both PipeChat and PIPORG-L:   I read with interest and some dismay the post by DesertBob about the Fisk at Benaroya Hall in Seattle. The only reason to respond is to somewhat help to set the record straight and give an organists's opinion of what I heard. I apologize for such excessive quoting but I believe this kind of posting is damaging to the reputation of the Fisk Company and the Seattle AGO and the Benaroya Hall organ. Again, my sincerest apologies to the Lists for such excessive quoting. I think a response to this post is critical.   At 04:38 PM 7/24/00, DesertBob wrote: >Well, now! The AGO-goers have vacated Seattle, and I can only assume that >most heard the "Frisky" in Beranova Hall (known to locals as "Bill Gates >Memorial" or "Microsoft Money"), and I'm waiting to hear the reviews.   I posted several notes from the Convention on PIPORG-L, including my dissatisfaction with the way the organ was played at the opening concert (M. Bovet used the "shaky" wind for the entire concert). But all the negatives were diminished at the final concert when we heard the organ with orchestra. I enjoyed the organ and the concert very much! BTW, I never heard it referred to as anything other than Benaroya Hall.   I don't remember the name of the Japanese organist who played the Poulenc but she was absolutely marvelous (in registrations and technique) and in perfect coordination with the conductor and orchestra. And Naji Hakim's "Seattle Symphony" was spectacular. Mme. Hakim was elegantly dressed in a black evening gown (the other two women organists played in pants and sparkly tops) and played perfectly a very difficult score. The final concert was a great success for the organ, the audience, the orchestra, and especially, the people of Seattle with their new Fisk treasure.   >Obviously, the local press didn't think enough of it to enter a single word >in print, although they did indeed do a nice spread about the "Frisky", >complete with misinformation about how flue pipes work, and Fisk-fed >justification of "TrackerMania" sensibilities.   There was a review on Monday morning in the Seattle paper following the opening concert by Guy Bovet. The writer was very positive in his review about the concert in general, and certainly much nicer than I would have been concerning Bovet's "tangos."   >There's enough about this organ I've seen so far to set me into typical >"chew toy" mode, including the unergonomic "quasi-stops-on-the-wall" >console design, as well has having a captive console in the fa=E7ade, >entirely not necessary and a drawback in a concert hall environment.=20   The console-in-the-case design did not seem to deter the organists from brilliant playing and perfect coordination with Maestro Shwarz. There is a small t.v. monitor on the music rack which eliminated the need for a rear-view mirror.   At >least the thing has combination action! =20   Of course, it's a modern organ in a modern concert hall designed to play modern music.   Of interest to me is the >"electro-tracker" (my term...=A9) servo action, which supposedly mimicks= the >"player control of the pallet" of tracker action. Again, I submit that on >an 83 rank organ, if it indeed DID have trackers, it would be all but >unplayable for many pieces of the repetoire, unless the performer was >slipped some pain medication prior to performance. So, obviously, a move >to this new servo design was made. But why? =20   I'll let the Fisk guys who read these e-mails comment on this. I'm clueless about this topic. I assumed it DID have trackers since it IS a mechanical-actioned organ. I will quote the rest of Bob's note since I believe there needs to be some clarification by the List experts on the following paragraphs to set the record straight and to avoid negatives about a significant new American organ.=20   On an organ using these wind >pressures, using an "eclectic" (although teutonic-biased) specification, >there would BE no "player control of the pallet" using tracker action...it >just wouldn't exist! At anything above, say, 2", the force that must be >built up by the player through the trackers and rollers must first overcome >wind, at which point the pallet opens immedately as soon as equilibrium of >forces of wind and pallet spring force is reached, and the player has NO >control of the pallet whatsoever...it falls quickly, with the kinetic >energy of the mass of the trackers, rollers, and other paraphenalia >maintaining its speed of depression, as well as the player's continued >downward force on the key. The only way to provide "player control" would >be to have unrealistically strong pallet spring pressures; thus, after >initial "breaking of the wind" (phew!), the player's force would still have >something in terms of counteractive stored energy to work against, thus >being able to indeed slow the pallet's opening...to a small extent. By >this time, key/action tension is high enough to be mistaken as a >carillon's, and is useless. > >This being the case, then WHY is "electro-tracker" even being used here? >Is this a NEW type of organ intonation, never heard before? Certainly it >isn't "authentic", the battle cry of the member of the TrackerReich. The >first (or one of the first) "electro-trackers" was Notr=E9 Dame's >Cavaill=E9-Coll, which received hushed, condemning reveiws, as did its >reliability. A C-C with Barker levers was NEVER built for "player >controlled" action. So why was it added? And, since the Seattle "Frisky" >is a concert hall instrument on fair-to-middling wind, why was it used >there? It seems to me that two things are happening. 1.) "TrackerMania" >is precluding good common sense in concert instruments, to wit tracker and >"electro-tracker" actions and 2.) teutonic "retro-fad" voicing and >specification holds sway, although some Romantic bones are tossed at >"American Classicists", as if to mollify criticism from their quarter, >resulting in an unblending mash of contrasting styles, unlike Harrison's >melding approach. > >Thus, we're at a point where instruments in public performance venues seem >to be heading backward in some areas, notably specification, voicing and a >complete disregard for console ergonomics, pioneered over 100 years ago.=20   I have snippppppppped several sentences of inflammatory words.   >No wonder orchestral musicians laugh at us!   I and my colleagues perform with union orchestral musicians all the time and I don't know they laugh at us. In fact, they are in awe of the organ and its capabilities and the technique and required to play it musically.   Yours,   Darryl by the Sea Fort Lauderdale    
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: "Margo Dillard" <dillardm@airmail.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:10:44 -0500   Oh no - I'm sure Diet Cola could not kill a Hammond - an Allen or Rodgers = or even Moller or Casavant - who knows, maybe even a tracker - but even Jolt Cola wouldn't kill a Hammond. Nothing can kill a Hammond. You can push it down an embankment onto an Interstate and let a 10-ton truck run over it = and it will still play. No matter what anyone may say about Hammonds - they = were built to LAST! and last....and last......and last.............   Maybe you could work something out with a local organ dealer similar to = what convinced my church to get a new organ. A new organ dealer in the area wanted a church with nice acoustics to put an organ in for "demo" purposes = - so he offered to install it for free for a year or so - and we could buy = or not - up to us. Well....once it was installed and used in worship, it = took about 2 weeks for an organ committee to form - and they ended up buying a larger, nicer organ than the temporary demo. To keep the peace, you could still keep the Hammond sitting off to the side and use it for praise team = (if you have one) or youth stuff or gospel style stuff. You could even say to people, who will repeat it or where she can hear, how glad you are to have the Hammond for playing gospel music. (Our organ is "banned" from the = praise team service - I have often thought this might not be the case if we still had the old Hammond around - praise team and the folks who like that stuff would probably just love the Leslie and all those trems.)   Bruce Behnke wrote:   > >But it will BE the Hammond until she DIES; > > I have found that a can of Diet Cola inadvertently (you bet) spilled = over > the keyboard can lead to the early demise of an instrument. It is > certainly cheaper and less risky than taking out a contract on the dear > old woman. > > Bruce > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 08:56:04 -0500   >Paul >Who by the way CAN'T STAND the look and sound of a Hammond. Makes me >sick just thinking about them.... > > reminds me, My Dad would not buy a Hammond for the church, He said that they "sound like a buzz saw". (sorry dB ;-) He had bought 2 Conns for the church during his lifetime. He would have rather purchased a pipe organ but it was not to be. Luther    
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:11:50   At 08:56 AM 7/25/2000 -0500, you wrote: >reminds me, My Dad would not buy a Hammond for the church, >He said that they "sound like a buzz saw". (sorry dB ;-)<snip>   An oft heard comment on Hammond tonewheel tonality, and somewhat accurate. There is a sensation known as the "Hammond growl". Some of this is the "Ham-Burger" temperament, some of it is distortion, all of it is prized by most Hammond afficionados, mostly in the popular music arena. There was a crusade by many in the church music business to deem Hammonds unusable in churches, backed with some pretty convincing data. I have played many in church situations over the years, and they indeed take a great deal of skill to make thier sound palatable. Needless to say, they are NOT an "organ", but an instrument unto themselves, and now a curiousity of history, although a mainstay of popular music.   >He had bought 2 Conns for the church during his lifetime.<snip>   Conns were OK, to a point, but lacked true ensemble of different ranks of generators. Analog Allens and Rodgerses were better, however most Allens were in reality 2 or 3 rank instruments, highly unified, thus making critical errors in mixtures and mutations, as well as lack of ensemble. Saville had the right idea on analog design, but had other problems. Needless to say, all of these pale when compared to new digital = technology. Ya still can't beat pipes, however!   Bud's organ, however, is a special case. A very early digital effort that was hamstrung by the technology of the times and cost targets of a failing company, it was cheesily built and designed, and doesn't really do much of anything well...except break down! Nice console, though!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Eternal Hammond From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:18:06   At 08:10 AM 7/25/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Oh no - I'm sure Diet Cola could not kill a Hammond<snip>   Margo is correct about the tonewheelers, certainly not Bud's sorry excuse for an organ.   I've seen tonewheel Hammonds fall off of liftgates of trucks, heavily damaging the woodwork, breaking plastic parts, shattering tubes. Replace any broken tubes, plug it in, it STILL plays. Such built-in longevity wasn't necessarily a design feature. All things in the era of the Depression were "built to last"...clocks, appliances, you name it. There was this idea, long since discarded by Korporate AmeriKa, that people should get their money's worth. The tonewheel Hammond is an example of just that. Bud's organ is an example or corporate mentalities AFTER that time.   DeserTBoB      
(back) Subject: Re: Cathedral, Parish Music and similarities! From: "Chris Johns" <Chris_Johns@gmx.de> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:26:50 +0200   >> I improvise my own, on hymn tunes and chants (Gregorian) every Sunday. = My >> style is more like Debusey and not so much like the mad organist.   >There is, however, a danger to this; one organist of my acquaintance who >improvises on a regular basis, and who is the parent to a toddler, frequently >slips in motifs--melodic fragments or chord sequences--from television shows >geared to that age group. I am absolutely convinced that this is not an >intentional effort.   I wouldn't be *too* sure. One of the challenges of improvisation for me is slipping little bits in here and there in such a way that those who understand the relevance will hear it, and those who don't, won't be disturbed. I'll give an example: VfL Osnabr=FCck, our local football team, were promoted to the German 2nd division after a breathtaking penalty shoot-out (11:10 was the final score, I think!). The following day, our choir was singing at the German Catholic Conference (Katholikentag) in Hamburg, and I was playing. I decided to slip little quotes from the = club's song ("Nur f=FCr diesen Verein wollen wir k=E4mpfen und schrei'n, wir sind = alle ein St=FCck VfL Osnabr=FCck") into my prelude to the final hymn ("Preis = dem Todes=FCberwinder"). The football fans there heard it, the rest didn't. Another one is bits of "Happy Birthday" when it's someone in the choir's = (or even one of the clergy's) birthday. You have to be careful to disguise it well though (playing it on a whole-tone scale usually works), because everybody knows that one.   Chris Frankenstrasse 5, D-49082 Osnabrueck Tel/Fax +49 (0)541 528 2568 EMail: Chris_Johns@gmx.de    
(back) Subject: Re: Seattle Benaroya Hall "FriskyFisky" From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 09:50:37   At 08:12 AM 7/25/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Dear Listers of both PipeChat and PIPORG-L:<snip>   Oh, THIS ought to be fun...   >The only reason to respond is to somewhat help >to set the record straight and give an organists's opinion of what I heard.<snip>   What DID you hear? Below, I hear you "enjoyed the organ very much". Tonal details, please....   >I apologize for such excessive quoting but I believe this kind of posting >is damaging to the reputation of the Fisk Company and the Seattle AGO and >the Benaroya Hall organ.<snip>   No, it's supposed to make people THINK about this entire "TrackerMania" excursion, not just by Fisk, but others, and reason if it's a valid course to take. I, for one, do not believe so.   >(M. Bovet used the "shaky" wind for the entire concert).<snip>   "Shaky wind", indeed! Scientifically driven improvement to winding systems, brought to fruition by Hope-Jones, Skinner, Austin and many others, are simply tossed out the window for the sake of some fad. Silliness...very EXPENSIVE silliness, I might add! Want "shaky wind"? Try a Wurlitzer with full trems; it's got yer "shaky" RIGHT HERE!   >But all the >negatives were diminished at the final concert when we heard the organ with >orchestra. I enjoyed the organ and the concert very much! BTW, I never >heard it referred to as anything other than Benaroya Hall.<snip>   You're not a local, which is why. My contacts up there call it these names regularly. Frank Gehry's gawdawful "Museum of Rock 'n Roll" is also accorded some choice Microsoft-related names, as Gates poured some of our hard-earned money in to that one, too. LA people should take note of this ediface; it's a precursor of things to come downtown.   >I don't remember the name of the Japanese organist who played the Poulenc >but she was absolutely marvelous (in registrations and technique) and in >perfect coordination with the conductor and orchestra. And Naji Hakim's >"Seattle Symphony" was spectacular. Mme. Hakim was elegantly dressed in a >black evening gown (the other two women organists played in pants and >sparkly tops) and played perfectly a very difficult score. The final >concert was a great success for the organ, the audience, the orchestra, and >especially, the people of Seattle with their new Fisk treasure.<snip>   So, then, we can glean from this that the Fisk is a tonal success? Thanks for the fashion report. Tonal details, please....   >There was a review on Monday morning in the Seattle paper following the >opening concert by Guy Bovet. The writer was very positive in his review >about the concert in general, and certainly much nicer than I would have >been concerning Bovet's "tangos."<snip>   Ah...missed that one, but there was no coverage of the final event, although it may be forthcoming. As for Bovet...hmmmmmm.   >small t.v. monitor on the music rack which eliminated the need for a >rear-view mirror.<snip>   How gauche.   >Of interest to me is the >>"electro-tracker" (my term...=A9) servo action, which supposedly mimicks= the >>"player control of the pallet" of tracker action. Again, I submit that on >>an 83 rank organ, if it indeed DID have trackers, it would be all but >>unplayable for many pieces of the repetoire, unless the performer was >>slipped some pain medication prior to performance. So, obviously, a move >>to this new servo design was made. But why? =20 > >I'll let the Fisk guys who read these e-mails comment on this. I'm clueless >about this topic. I assumed it DID have trackers since it IS a >mechanical-actioned organ.<snip>   A friend of mine, a resident of nearby Bainbridge Island, inspected the interior of the organ right after all the festivities, and was told it is a type of electric servo action. If he was indeed led down the path of misinformation, I shall make clarification, after I grill him further. He was exceedingly impressed, as he should have been, about the quality and finish of the Fisk. It is, in no uncertain terms, a beautiful instrument to the eye.   >I will quote the rest of Bob's note since I >believe there needs to be some clarification by the List experts on the >following paragraphs to set the record straight and to avoid negatives >about a significant new American organ.<snip>   Ah, organ politics. Significant, yes, and happy, in that a new organ has made its way into an important new concert venue. However, as I've maintained for years, I am NOT happy about these faddish trends, all of which are quite expensive and of questionable musical worth. The proof is a number of Flentrops, bought during the Biggs/Fesperman tracker hoopla of the '60s that started TrackerMania, that sit, unused, unheard, in university auditoria.   >I and my colleagues perform with union orchestral musicians all the time >and I don't know they laugh at us. In fact, they are in awe of the organ >and its capabilities and the technique and required to play it musically.<snip>   Indeed. A friend of mine is a violinist for the local symphony, and we've had many a discussion on the subject. She cannot comprehend handling as many different elements of our instrument or its literature. However, she has become an "organ fan", and has heard a number of instruments, including First Congregational of LA (3rd largest in the world, purportedly) and others. She did note that some "newer organs tend to shriek a lot and are shrill...why IS that?" After doing some study on various schools and eras of organ tonality, her comment was, "Why do these organ people want to be stuck back in the era of Bach? Not much of today's concert repertoire comes from the Baroque, since people DON'T WANT TO HEAR IT.(emphasis mine) It makes no sense!"   The most listened-to and heavily attended organs in the United States are Wanamaker's and the Spreckles Austin, contemporaries of each other. The Austin has been updated with sorely-need upperwork here and there; Wanamaker's is big enough to have just about everythere there anyone could possibly need. Neither are all that good at counterpoint, but the Austin can do OK at it. Neither are trackers. Neither (especially the Austin!) have "shaky wind". There's a message here, should some of the "organ gods" care to take a scant look at it.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Not your mother's B-3 (wish it WAS) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 10:08:52 -0700   IF this were a classic tonewheeler, I would be MUCH more kindly disposed = to it. I KNOW how to play THEM.   No, this is a Hammond/SUZUKI Model 825 "Church" Organ (it says so right on = the LED readout when it fires up), manufactured in the early '90s, after = Hammond was absorbed/bought/whatever by Suzuki.   Suzuki should have stuck to motorcycles.   It has a handful of sampled "pipe" voices on LED tabs; it has only two = sets of drawbars (one for each manual) and NO octave of presets like the classic Hammonds. The drawbars set on blind pistons, but, unlike A# and B on the tonewheelers, once you engage the piston, you can't change the drawbar = settings.   It DOES have a rather comfortable flashy oak AGO console, with overhanging manuals and tolerable key and pedal touch. It was originally = self-contained; I added two enormous Leslies, which helped considerably.   But it is HIGHLY unreliable ... cyphers, dead notes (all the key contacts = have been replaced), weird random electronic noises (no, the AC line is = isolated) ... once, it picked a chord out of the air, held it, and then expired in a = burst of smoke ... I thought I had been delivered, but no such luck. Another time, = the transposer started engaging itself ... up, down, up, down (this in the = middle of Christmas Eve Mass).   Even if it WORKED, the stop-list is so weird, and the sounds so out of = balance (no way to adjust that, either) that it's virtually useless. The diapasons = are dulcianas, the strings are loud and nasty, but that's how you get = brilliance: play the strings up an octave. The reeds are quite tolerable ... I play a = lot of French harmonium music. There's a big fat 8' Gedeckt on the Great that = gets used constantly in combination with the 8' drawbar.   I've managed to find two or three sounds to accompany the Mass; nothing of substance to accompany hymns ... it bites and kicks over an MF, so I just = tell the choir to sing loud; the only "plenum" is 00 6807 006 on the drawbars, = plus the Swell 2' Principal and the super-coupler, but that means you have to = play the hymns on the Swell, since the 2' isn't present on the Great and there's no = Swell to Great coupler.   Thankfully, not many of these organs were made, and they aren't made = anymore; but the Rector can't seem to get it through his head that it took ME the = better part of a year to find my way around on it, and I KNOW electronic organs and = LIKE to tinker ... the average organist is going to take one look and throw up = his/her hands (this has happened MANY times when we've been auditioning = substitutes).   But the donor is ADAMANT ... THIS will BE the organ. Period. Otherwise she = will leave the church and take all her friends with her (which amounts to St. = Martha's Guild ... everybody over 70 with money). She doesn't care if it controls a calliope, but the CONSOLE can't be altered visually. I presume she = realizes that the stop-rail would have to be changed to support a pipe organ or new = digital innards ... if it comes to that, I'm NOT gonna ask.   The RECTOR mishandled this from the start ... he was afraid to refuse the original donation; he was afraid to tell her that it wouldn't be going to = the new church; he blamed ME when my cantor got up and started talking about Organ Clearing House at Vestry meeting ... I wasn't even THERE, nor had I = authorized it.   Now it's "Bud's a snob ... he hates the organ because it isn't a = million-dollar pipe organ."   True, I hate the organ, but I hate it because it isn't reliable and it = sounds NASTY. I've played electronic organs before; I've played HAMMONDS before, = but reliable old tonewheelers, not THIS misbegotten mess. It HAS to be, bar = NONE, the WORST electronic organ I have EVER played, and I have played some real = doozies in the past 50 years (grin). An ORGATRON in good condition would be a BIG improvement!   Cheers,   Bud      
(back) Subject: Re: Not your mother's B-3 (wish it WAS) From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:21:03 -0500       quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote:   > IF this were a classic tonewheeler, I would be MUCH more kindly disposed = to it. I > KNOW how to play THEM. ...<snip>.... > True, I hate the organ, but I hate it because it isn't reliable and it = sounds > NASTY. I've played electronic organs before; I've played HAMMONDS = before, but > reliable old tonewheelers, not THIS misbegotten mess. It HAS to be, bar = NONE, the > WORST electronic organ I have EVER played, and I have played some real = doozies in > the past 50 years (grin). An ORGATRON in good condition would be a BIG > improvement!   Bud, I think you're holding back, and its not healthy to do so. Come on, = now, tell us what you really think.......    
(back) Subject: Re: Cathedral, Parish Music and similarities! From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 12:24:50 -0500       Chris Johns wrote:   > I wouldn't be *too* sure. One of the challenges of improvisation for me = is > slipping little bits in here and there in such a way that those who > understand the relevance will hear it, and those who don't, won't be > disturbed.   I do realize that this is true; but I find sometimes when I identify these melodic motifs or chord sequences, and mention them later, that the = general response is something on the order of "Well, I don't think I did that, but = if I did, I didn't mean to." And the organist in is good enough to work in = themes, and have them so that only those in the know, know. I've seen the person = do so.