PipeChat Digest #1434 - Saturday, June 3, 2000
 
Bates and Culley organ
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: "Out of tune" harmonics, "junk science" and academic hacks.
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: The Next Few Weeks.
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Dynamics Question
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Re: Dynamics Question
  by "Hugo Agius Muscat" <hugoam@maltanet.net>
Re: Fw: Suggestions, please . . .
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Needing advice
  by "Bill Morton" <wjm@pacbell.net>
Re: Dynamics Question
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
re:  Bach, Haydn, Hook
  by "Lee T Lovallo" <llovallo@juno.com>
Re: Bates and Culley organ
  by "Benjamin M. Baldus" <bbaldus@voyager.net>
Re: Needing advice
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: "Out of tune" harmonics, "junk science" and academic hacks.
  by "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com>
Re: Bates and Culley organ
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: "Out of tune" harmonics, "junk science" and academic hacks.
  by "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com>
Re: Needing advice
  by "Harvey DeGering" <chd@mcsi.net>
Re: Big News
  by "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com>
Re: Big News
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: "Out of tune" harmonics, "junk science" and academic hacks.
  by "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org>
Re: Big News
  by "Bonnie Beth Derby" <orge@dreamscape.com>
 


(back) Subject: Bates and Culley organ From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:57:02 EDT   We just finished repairs to a very interesting organ in a very interesting =   church. The church is Holy Trinity Epis. in Spring Lake, NJ. Built 1880. = It is a time machine. The only non original things are the carpet and a few light fixtures. It's a summer church and has no heat or AC. The organ is a =   Bates and Culley. The name plate says 1903 but there are a few odd things about it that have me scratching my head. Everything about this organ is original, (except for the 1920's blower) it has never been rebuilt. It can =   still be hand pumped. We have taken all the pipes out and thoroughly = cleaned every thing then put it all back together intact (including the candle wax =   dripped by tuners before they installed Mr. Edison's light bulbs). = However, I found that the key desk has been modified. There are two panels on each = side of the key desk. One has hinges on it but cannot open due to the presence = of the key desk and the other was once removable but the keydesk is in the = way. This key desk looks very original and matches perfectly. Also, low C and = C# of the 8' Open are inside the case but have the same polychrome stenciling = as the facade pipes. I have to wonder if this organ was transplanted to this church in '03. I have never seen another Bates and Culley and know nothing =   about the firm other that they were in Philadelphia Pa. I understand that there is another B&C somewhere in Pa. The church authorities are under the =   impression that the organ was purchased new but I have my doubts. Does = anyone know anything about Bates and Culley or of the existence of any other B&C organs?   Alan B.  
(back) Subject: Re: "Out of tune" harmonics, "junk science" and academic hacks. From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 13:03:04   At 10:52 AM 6/2/2000 -0700, you wrote: > Further ideas from the tech type: Why not use a "gated" >amplifier and earphones to tune. By this I mean using an amp that >has a circuit that is triggered by the initial sound but does not >turn on the amplifier until a few milli-seconds later, after the >initial blow, and when the string has settled down. A tunable band >pass filter could also accent the fundamental.<snip>   You don't necessarily want to tune with the fundamental; there's too much margin for error. The higher resolution offered by the harmonics ensures more accuracy. Each step up on the "ladder" of harmonics gives greater resolution to tuning inaccuracy by a power of 2 for each harmonic.   I know the "non-techies" are going to get their panties in a bunch over this one...so be it. 'Tis mathematics, pure and simple.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: The Next Few Weeks. From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:18:22 EDT   In a message dated 6/2/00 1:25:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk writes:   > all people my age (16) WHA?????? You're not 40???????? ;-)   (good luck)   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Dynamics Question From: <JKVDP@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:57:30 EDT   Hello list: I must not have the adequate reference books, but I am trying to determine =   the correct order of "mezzo" in dynamics as in "mp" or "mf". Is the following correct in ascending order? pp p mp mf f ff   Thanks, Jerry in Seattle  
(back) Subject: Re: Dynamics Question From: "Hugo Agius Muscat" <hugoam@maltanet.net> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 22:59:48 +0200   ----- Original Message ----- From: <JKVDP@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 10:57 PM Subject: Dynamics Question     > Hello list: > I must not have the adequate reference books, but I am trying to = determine > the correct order of "mezzo" in dynamics as in "mp" or "mf". Is the > following correct in ascending order? > pp > p > mp > mf > f > ff > > Thanks, Jerry in Seattle > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   Yes! Hugo in Malta    
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Suggestions, please . . . From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:04:16   At 02:50 PM 6/2/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Hey Bob- Being a "Wright fan", is that platter-set still in print?<snip>   LOOOONG gone. I think I last saw the various Reader's Digest organ albums in the late '70s, when quality pressings were getting to be a problem. This is a 1970 set, and the quality of pressings is RCA Red Label quality, as is the mastering. Eight sides of Wright in Pasadena...it is to die for! I believe a lot of these came from Dot/Liberty masters, when GW was under contract to them, but the difference in clarity of the pressings and masterings makes the difference like night and day...(you are one...). These are most definately NOT just restamps...these have been completely remastered.   I've dug around on eBay, and have seen this same collection, but only rarely. As with all record collecting on eBay (or from any other source, for that matter), caveat emptor. Peddlers these days, knowing nothing about LPs and, lacking even the equipment to audition them, usually grade by "surface gloss" and "visible scratches". If it has "visible scratches", it's Frisbee material, as far as I'm concerned.   There were several RD organ albums, featuring Wright, Reggie Foort, Reggie Dixon (and his imfamous tierce registrations...ewww!), Richard Purvis (how fitting!), Ray Bohr, Dick Liebert, Lenny Leigh, and others. I've not found a bad one yet! Most contained at least four LPs, some five.   I haven't scanned Banda's CD catalog to see if all the cuts on this album are currently being reissued. To my ear, the later Wright releases on CD (i.e., "Salon", etc.) are turgid, self-absorbed stuff, lacking any of the flair and inventiveness of Wright's heyday of the '50s and '60s, or even the great Chicago DD sessions on the Crawford Wurlie. The "Philharmonic" organ lacks any of the pizzazz of the Don Leslie organ to me, also, although many believe that parts of DL's studio organ live on in that one! (Donning flameproof suit...ESPECIALLY apropos when talking about Wright!)   Look around for this one: "George Wright Plays Popular Organ Hits", Reader's Digest RD-87A-1, =A91970. Many of these cuts were out on reissues on both MCA and some off-the-wall label. The MCA reissue has awful mastering and mediocre pressings; the other one has better mastering and dreadful pressings. I have copies of both for sale in VG condition. However, to get ALL the cuts, you need this Reader's Digest set...it's worth the hunt, especially if you're a "phonophile", as I am! The clarity of the reeds and strings, as well as the power of the 32's, is definately analog-mastered CD quality, assuming you can find mint pressings...and no, you can NOT have mine!.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Needing advice From: "Bill Morton" <wjm@pacbell.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:47:14 -0700   At 21:20 06/01/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Hi, > >I just subscribed to this list today and I am hoping someone will be >able to give me a little advice. A friend of mine at the church I play >for offered me their partially completed Schober organ.   My own advice would be to pass on this one. A perfectly-assembled = Schober was nothing to write home about; one that has been "partially assembled" = by someone is a high-risk project. Look at the available organs on http://www.theatreorgans.com/ and see what you might find there instead.   Just one humble opinion. I too looked at Schober some years ago and = lusted for either their Theatre or their "Professional" (can't remember what they =   called it). After reading a lot of stuff on this and other fora, I congratulate myself on not having the $ to start a project which, even if completed, would most likely have ended in disappointment.   Bill    
(back) Subject: Re: Dynamics Question From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 14:52:34   At 04:57 PM 6/2/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Is the >following correct in ascending order?<snip>   'Tis, indeed.   dB  
(back) Subject: re: Bach, Haydn, Hook From: "Lee T Lovallo" <llovallo@juno.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 13:49:46 -0700   *** Concert Notice ***   On Saturday, June 10 at 8:00 pm the St. Paul's Compline Choir and Little Orchestra will perform Bach's motet, "Der Geist hilft unsrer Schwachheit auf", Haydn's Missa brevis in Bb ("Little Organ Solo Mass"), and an 18th century concerto by James Hook for organ and strings. St. Paul's is at 15th and J Streets in Sacramento, next to the convention center. Suggested donation is $5, $1 for children and seniors.   The concert celebrates the restoration by Lee Lovallo of a Civil War era pipe organ, which has been placed temporarily in the church. This small instrument was built by Geo. Jardine of New York in the early 1860's for a church in Tennessee and eventually found its way to an airplane hangar in Hayward, CA. The organ has a single manual and seven ranks of pipes and will be pumped by hand for the concert. David W. Robbins is the featured organist; Lee T. Lovallo will direct.   ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. To send a message to the list, e-mail to SacDavEM-L@tomatoweb.com   Questions regarding the list operation should be addressed to zadekia@tomatoweb.com   The Sacramento Regional Early Music Guild: a Virtual Network of Early Music Performers and Teachers website is located at http://www.lanset.com/ddcanan/kacanan/earlymusic   To reply to list, hit "REPLY ALL." To reply to individual, hit "REPLY."   To subscribe or unsubscribe to the Greater Sacramento/Davis Early Music E-Mail List, go to HTTP://GATE1.TOMATOWEB.COM:81/guest/RemoteAvailableLists   ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.  
(back) Subject: Re: Bates and Culley organ From: "Benjamin M. Baldus" <bbaldus@voyager.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 18:02:47 -0400   From 1974-76 I played a II/20 Bates & Culley St Jakobuskirche, Third & = Columbia, Philadelphia. The instrument was wonderful for romantic and early 20th = century music. Nice choruses on both manuals, perky Trumpet on Great and a lovely = Oboe on the Swell, plus 12-15-17 Mixture with the usual monstrous Wood Diapason = in the Pedal, but a more moderate Bourdon and and 8' Violoncello, if memory = serves. Save a thorough-going regulation and tuning, all we did was put a new = blower on the organ. This case had lockable doors on the sides of the case which = hid ample and very nicely made bookshelves! The building was sold to another = congregation (not Lutheran), and I wonder about the fate of what was a really nice = instrument.   All the best,   Ben Baldus   TRACKELECT@cs.com wrote:   > We just finished repairs to a very interesting organ in a very = interesting > church. The church is Holy Trinity Epis. in Spring Lake, NJ. Built 1880. = It > is a time machine. The only non original things are the carpet and a few > light fixtures. It's a summer church and has no heat or AC. The organ is = a > Bates and Culley. The name plate says 1903 but there are a few odd = things > about it that have me scratching my head. Everything about this organ is > original, (except for the 1920's blower) it has never been rebuilt. It = can > still be hand pumped. We have taken all the pipes out and thoroughly = cleaned > every thing then put it all back together intact (including the candle = wax > dripped by tuners before they installed Mr. Edison's light bulbs). = However, I > found that the key desk has been modified. There are two panels on each = side > of the key desk. One has hinges on it but cannot open due to the = presence of > the key desk and the other was once removable but the keydesk is in the = way. > This key desk looks very original and matches perfectly. Also, low C and = C# > of the 8' Open are inside the case but have the same polychrome = stenciling as > the facade pipes. I have to wonder if this organ was transplanted to = this > church in '03. I have never seen another Bates and Culley and know = nothing > about the firm other that they were in Philadelphia Pa. I understand = that > there is another B&C somewhere in Pa. The church authorities are under = the > impression that the organ was purchased new but I have my doubts. Does = anyone > know anything about Bates and Culley or of the existence of any other = B&C > organs? > > Alan B. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Needing advice From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:01:11   At 02:47 PM 6/2/2000 -0700, you wrote: >A perfectly-assembled Schober >was nothing to write home about; one that has been "partially assembled" = by >someone is a high-risk project.<snip>   I'd have to agree with Bill, even though my earlier post may have sounded = a little "over-ethusiastic". Still, there's alwasy something about "rolling your own" (remember Heathkit Williamson amps?) that adds to the experience...pro OR con!   If it's free, and you really need an AGO practice console at home (and you're somewhat of a masochist), take it. You're going to have to lay out some cash to get the beast even running. However, you state that "the instruction manual had (you) baffled on Page 1." Seeing that you're not electronically inclined, this might be too much for you to handle.   Take Bill's advice and shop theatreorgans.com's want ads...deals aplenty = in there sometimes!   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: "Out of tune" harmonics, "junk science" and academic hacks. From: "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 18:18:18 CDT   <major text excision>   >Next, we'll probably hear from some academic hack that...     Well, Bob, if that Jorgensen hack can get published, what's your excuse? You must be lonely on Mt. Olympus.   ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Bates and Culley organ From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 18:24:07 -0500   TRACKELECT@cs.com wrote: > > We just finished repairs to a very interesting organ in a very = interesting > church. The church is Holy Trinity Epis. in Spring Lake, NJ. Built 1880. = It > is a time machine. The only non original things are the carpet and a few > light fixtures. It's a summer church and has no heat or AC. The organ is = a > Bates and Culley. The name plate says 1903 but there are a few odd = things > about it that have me scratching my head. Everything about this organ is > original, (except for the 1920's blower) it has never been rebuilt. It = can > still be hand pumped. We have taken all the pipes out and thoroughly = cleaned > every thing then put it all back together intact (including the candle = wax > dripped by tuners before they installed Mr. Edison's light bulbs). = However, I > found that the key desk has been modified. There are two panels on each = side > of the key desk. One has hinges on it but cannot open due to the = presence of > the key desk and the other was once removable but the keydesk is in the = way. > This key desk looks very original and matches perfectly. Also, low C and = C# > of the 8' Open are inside the case but have the same polychrome = stenciling as > the facade pipes. I have to wonder if this organ was transplanted to = this > church in '03. I have never seen another Bates and Culley and know = nothing > about the firm other that they were in Philadelphia Pa. I understand = that > there is another B&C somewhere in Pa. The church authorities are under = the > impression that the organ was purchased new but I have my doubts. Does = anyone > know anything about Bates and Culley or of the existence of any other = B&C > organs?   Samuel Bates and Oliver Culley were in charge of Roosevelt's Philadelphia branch, which mostly built tracker organs and left the tubular- and electro-pneumatic stuff to the New York branch. Quite what they were doing between the closure of the Philadelphia branch and the final closure of the Roosevelt firm in 1893, I don't know, but a couple years after the demise of the Roosevelt firm they set up their own business in Philadelphia in 1895, where they continued in business until the early 1920's.   Bates & Culley mostly built small tracker and tubular instruments. Naturally, their instruments were heavily influenced by the work of Hilborne and Frank Roosevelt. About the most noteworthy extant Bates & Culley instrument is at Kensington Methodist Church, Philadelphia, and was built in 1897. We visited it during the 1996 OHS convention and the stoplist is given in the convention handbook:   GREAT 61   16' Open Diapason 8' Open Diapason 8' Doppel Flute 8' Viol de Gamba 8' Dulciana 4' Octave 4' Hohl Flute 2.2/3' Octave Quint 2' Super Octave 8' Trumpet   SWELL 61 enclosed   16' Bourdon Treble 16' Bourdon Bass 8' Violin Diapason 8' Stop'd Diapason 8' Aeoline 8' Vox Celeste 4' Flute Harmonique 4' Gemshorn 2' Flageolet III Rks. Dolce Cornet 8' Oboe Tremulant   PEDALE 30   16' Open Diapason 16' Bourdon   COUPLERS   Swell to Great Swell to Great Octaves Great to Pedale Swell to Pedale   Tracker action.   There are three or four smaller Bates & Culley instruments still surviving in Pennsylvania, and I think I heard of one a few years back that had been relocated to California.   John Speller, St. Louis, Mo.  
(back) Subject: Re: "Out of tune" harmonics, "junk science" and academic hacks. From: "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 18:40:36 CDT   >Such honest teachers would say to students, "Ya know, I REALLY don't >know...   And I'm going to pay $300 credit/hour for someone to say he/she doesn't know? NOT!   You're going to pay a plumber $50/hr to say he doesn't know how to fix it and to figure it out for yourself.   You guys are nuts! ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Needing advice From: "Harvey DeGering" <chd@mcsi.net> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:32:06 -0700   An easy way to search many classifieds is to use www.lycos.com/adhound . It will search up to 700 papers for any combination of words and report daily. You can select any state or states. Of course a lot are yard sales and such but if I had a warehouse it might be full of questionable bargains! Some peope think they will get rich; some just want a Conn 653 hauled away! Harvey, (The Invisible Rabbit) chd@mcsi.net Sutherlin, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Morton" <wjm@pacbell.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 2:47 PM Subject: Re: Needing advice     > At 21:20 06/01/2000 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi, > > > >I just subscribed to this list today and I am hoping someone will be > >able to give me a little advice. A friend of mine at the church I play > >for offered me their partially completed Schober organ. > > My own advice would be to pass on this one. A perfectly-assembled Schober > was nothing to write home about; one that has been "partially assembled" by > someone is a high-risk project. Look at the available organs on > http://www.theatreorgans.com/ and see what you might find there instead. > > Just one humble opinion. I too looked at Schober some years ago and lusted > for either their Theatre or their "Professional" (can't remember what they > called it). After reading a lot of stuff on this and other fora, I > congratulate myself on not having the $ to start a project which, even if > completed, would most likely have ended in disappointment. > > Bill > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Big News From: "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 19:50:59 PDT   Hi All,   I am happy to announce that I passed my Master's comprehensive exam and will soon be conferred my MS in Computer Science (emphasis in Theory and Information Visualization). Very proud moment.   DG ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Big News From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:02:28 -0400 (EDT)   Congratulations Dave G.    
(back) Subject: Re: "Out of tune" harmonics, "junk science" and academic hacks. From: "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:24:20 -0400   > And I'm going to pay $300 credit/hour for someone to say he/she doesn't > know? NOT! > > You're going to pay a plumber $50/hr to say he doesn't know how to fix = it > and to figure it out for yourself.   Personally, I think you're comparing apples and mulberries here. But in either case, I would much rather have someone admit lacunae in their = knowlege rather than try to feed me a load of bulls**t or install the wrong washer, =   either of which will no doubt come back to blow up in my face later and = leave me looking all wet. ;)   While I would expect the plumber to fix a specific problem that I hired = him for, I would prefer that a teacher to show me _how_ to learn and how to = find the tools necessary to gather the answers myself rather than pompously claiming to be the soul possessor of _the_ ultimate answer. After all, in = the real world we've got to know how to ferret out the answer on our own most = of the time and often there is no one _ultimate_ answer.   Just my $.02 fwiw   Cheers, TommyLee    
(back) Subject: Re: Big News From: "Bonnie Beth Derby" <orge@dreamscape.com> Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 23:27:48 -0400   Congratulations!!! Now I know where to go for tech support. :-)   Best wishes,   Bonnie Beth Derby, B.Mus, M.Mus Producer & Host ``Orgelwerke'' & ``Choral Traditions'' WCNY-FM, 91.3; Syracuse; WUNY-FM, 89.5, Utica; WJNY-FM, 90.9, Watertown Organist, First Church of Christ, Scientist, Syracuse (1927 E.M. Skinner) orge@dreamscape.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave G. <dave_hat@hotmail.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 10:50 PM Subject: Re: Big News     > Hi All, > > I am happy to announce that I passed my Master's comprehensive > exam and will soon be conferred my MS in Computer Science (emphasis in > Theory and Information Visualization). Very proud moment. > > DG >