PipeChat Digest #1447 - Saturday, June 10, 2000
 
Re: Skinner strings
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Skinner strings
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Skinner strings
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Allen Organ
  by <CdyVanpool@aol.com>
Re: Skinner strings
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by <Posthorn8@aol.com>
Re:Allen at Bellevue Baptist
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Big Allen
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Re: Skinner strings
  by <Steskinner@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #1446 - 06/10/00
  by "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <tgregory@speeddial.net>
polyphony
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why?
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: polyphony
  by "Robert Ehrhardt" <r_ehrh@bellsouth.net>
Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship
  by "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com>
Re: Big Allen
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why?
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Skinner strings
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: polyphony
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Skinner strings
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Big Allen
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Skinner strings From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:30:53 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 9:06:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Steskinner@aol.com writes:   > I think I would like to replace only the swell salicionals with a broad > "Viola Pomposa" type strings, loud enough to color the whole ensemble = when > brought on. Should I rethink this? Absolutely! There is an unique voluptious sensuality to those thin = string celestes. If you must, add a Viola Pomposa, or better yet, an 8 Principal = to the Swell. If the room is live enough a Geigen would probably do what = you want. But don't sacrifice those unique sizzling strings!!!!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:36:59 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 10:07:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hiplain@flash.net writes:   > The case is graced with two {presumably operating} drum percussion = units. > The > console, 2 manuals & pedal integral with the case, is arranged with vertical > rows of > stopknobs either side of the keyboards. The instrument apparently has a =   MIDI > interface, > so it can play the grand piano collocated in the atrium/lounge. > > I'll hopefully have more info, including some photographs after my = folks get > back from > their cruise. I hope your folks got to hear the organ. My mother just got back from a cruise on the Zaandam and did not get to hear the organ! She waited and =   waited... The pictures show one manual and no pedal; there is a lovely chair rather than a bench. I have been unable to find specs. I'd be very interest to find out more about this amazing creature. What a neat =   job THAT would be!! Playing the organ in a floating buffet!!!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Skinner strings From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:39:08 -0400 (EDT)   Sometimes adding a stop to the sizzling strings will work to broaden the sound some. I'm w/ Bruce, don't discard them.    
(back) Subject: Re: Skinner strings From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:53:19 -0700   It's always been my contention (though it's more expensive) that one = should ADD "needed" things to Skinners, rather than REPLACING things ... Skinner = built what he built; tastes change.   For instance (hypothetically), if the original Great principal chorus is = just TOO tubby to be borne, move it to the Solo, but retain it, and replace the = Great chorus with something IN THE STYLE, but cleaner. There's a fairly wide = range of principals and mixtures within Skinner's body of work, depending on the = period.   There are things in the literature that might call for the thin, keen kind = of Salicional that you probably have; or at least it probably adds something = when you couple all the strings and celestes together at 16-8-4 (you DO do = that, don't you?) (grin).   I MIGHT chuck the Choir Dulciana/Unda maris if I could find a Skinner = Erzahler to replace it.   Cheers,   Bud   Steskinner@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 6/9/00 10:00:56 AM Russian Daylight Time, > desertbob@rglobal.net writes: > > << although Skinner's beautiful soft strings and solo reeds are much > treasured. >> > > Our 1983 5/103 Schantz started out life as a 1929 Skinner. Schantz (and > Charles Kegg) did a beautiful job, and kept all of the significant = Skinner > stops, including the beautiful solo reeds, and the pedestrian strings. > There are 4 sets of strings/celestes, and to my ear, they all sound the = same, > except for volume. From softest to loudest: Echo (in gallery), Choir > (Dulc/Unda Maris--I know that this is technically from the principle = family), > Swell (salicionals--thin and just not "voluptuous"), and Solo = (Gambas--not > bad). > I think I would like to replace only the swell salicionals with a broad > "Viola Pomposa" type strings, loud enough to color the whole ensemble = when > brought on. Should I rethink this? > > Steven Skinner > First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant > Erie, PA > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Allen Organ From: <CdyVanpool@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:00:18 EDT   In a message dated 06/10/2000 12:32:29 PM Central Daylight Time, pipechat@pipechat.org writes:   << As one who regularly presided at one of the world's largest pipe = organs, I can say that I regularly used most of the 205 ranks I had at my disposal. = However, I can also say that I have heard people play large instruments = and played them like they were 35 rank instruments. I hope that Bellvue = Baptist has an organist who will not be afraid to use the potential that organ = has. The thing is not to be afraid of the organ. >>   I think Mr. Bennett has hit it on the head. An organ that big would = be intimidating to play... unless you went in with the "tame it" attitude. Again, my post was not meant to be nasty... I am in awe of such a = huge organ. As I stated before... very few organists would turn down a stop- = list like this... I wouldn't ! I play a very nice 70 stop, custom Allen in a Methodist Church of = about 600 members. I am glad we have this organ.... ( it could have been the Hammond...<G> Even if they want the BIGGEST and the BEST,( that is their business) = I am sure the organist will have alot of fun "taming the beast". BTW.... if you guys think it's not loud.... I have some = beach front property in Arizonia I can sell you.... with a 64' reed and 10, 32' pedal stops and all those enchamade trumpets, 250 speakers.....come on.... =   you really think it's voiced "delicately"? LOL....... you must not have = met or know any ALLEN installers...LOL Van Vanpool  
(back) Subject: Re: Skinner strings From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:05:24 EDT   Hey Bruce:   I told him essentially the same thing. I guess great minds think alike. I said, leave everything else alone and put in your two new strings (Viola = Pomposa) Those are really Diapason Conique's small scale anyway.   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: <Posthorn8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:10:50 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 10:14:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, tmbovard@arkansas.net writes:   << >Now that we've had some chuckles over the Memphis Big Mama, who wants = to >join me >in envying the salesperson who's collecting a commission on this thing? =   Can >you >say "vacation," boys and girls? >>   From what I understand any custom organ deal does not go through the = dealer. The factory does all the work from start to finish. The dealer gets just a =   small percentage of the complete sale.   For what it's worth   Tim  
(back) Subject: Re:Allen at Bellevue Baptist From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:31:33 -0700   > Does 1 room REALLY need 250 speakers in 7 chambers and 320 stops?     AS to the 320 stops, that does seem a bit much. Assuming the sound is additive, as in a pipe organ, the volume level would be unbearable. Plus, you'd probably brownout the whole county every time you hit a chord.   But personally, I think the more speakers, the better, especially if they are "channalized" well. My organ at home has 46 speakers, each with its = own amplifier channel. Each speaker handles no more than 18, and most only = 12, notes, and it's channelized in such a way that the likelyhood of = "adjacent" notes won't come out of the same speaker at the same time - so it seems to me that the speaker vibrates at a frequency closer to the pitch of a = single pipe, rather than a blended frequency. I'm no acoutical engineer, but I think it helps the electronic organ sound more pipe-y. Also, since there are more tonal paths, it give the sound more space.   Dennis    
(back) Subject: Big Allen From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:37:08 -0700   >Also, with that many stops, the overall "full organ" sound won't sound = any >different than any other organ   I thought digital organs had a "dropout" point, at which playing another note would result in one being dropped out from what was being played -- that is, if you're holding down 10 notes, and try to play an 11th, the = first note drops out.   How do these behemoths handle that, or do they even address it, or does = the new technology negate the problem?   Dennis      
(back) Subject: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen From: <JKVDP@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:43:26 EDT   It's my understanding that Bellevue Baptist Church seats over 7,000 people =   and that is a big place!   I'd like to hear from the list their nominations of large rooms, with say = at least 5000 seats, which have effective pipe organ installations. Jerry  
(back) Subject: Re: Skinner strings From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:48:04 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 9:52:41 PM Russian Daylight Time, quilisma@socal.rr.com writes:   << I MIGHT chuck the Choir Dulciana/Unda maris if I could find a Skinner Erzahler to replace it. >>   Well, I have a set in the echo (in addition to a set of strings in the = echo). They are the prettiest stops in the organ, running a close second to the French Horn and harmonic flute (w/trems---duh!)     Steven Skinner First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #1446 - 06/10/00 From: "Patricia/Thomas Gregory" <tgregory@speeddial.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:03:01 -0500     -- Thomas and Patricia Gregory 716 West College Avenue Waukesha WI USA 53186-4569   ---------- >From: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: PipeChat Digest #1446 - 06/10/00 >Date: Sat, Jun 10, 2000, 12:31 PM >   > I think I would like to replace only the swell salicionals with a broad > "Viola Pomposa" type strings, loud enough to color the whole ensemble = when > brought on. Should I rethink this?   YES.....LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE!   T. Gregory  
(back) Subject: polyphony From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:35:48 -0400   one of my Casio keyboards has a 16-note polyphony on most of the voices, = and a 10-note on the rest, but I didn't think organs had that problem. I = thought thay no matter how many notes were played, that you'd hear them all. I = guess the most you could play would be 5 with each hand (MAYBE 6), and 2 with = each foot...so the very most number of notes being played simultaneously would = be 16. I know for a fact that older vacuum tube organs can play as many notes that are pressed. If all 61 notes on any given manual were played, you'd hear them all; you wouldn't like sound, but you'd hear them!!! Dennis = brings up a good question. Do digital organs have a polyphonic limit??? I know Rodgers organs don't, but what about Allen. Of course, when you use MIDI gizmoes, they do!!!   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:52:54 -0700   St. John the Divine in NYC is the largest Gothic church in the world, and = the A-S up front is more-or-less lost, at least on the rare occasions when the = place is full ... partially because of the incredibly long reverb time, and = partially because the GDH rebuild of the original E.M. Skinner was a compromise = dictated by $$$. The original organ was built when only the East Transcept was = open; when the nave was opened, it was totally inadequate, but there wasn't enough = money to do it the way GDH wanted to.   What they NEED is BOTH those Kimballs up in the back, and/or Atlantic = City, if that organ ever becomes endangered (grin). THAT building could handle it!   Cheers,   Bud   JKVDP@aol.com wrote:   > It's my understanding that Bellevue Baptist Church seats over 7,000 = people > and that is a big place! > > I'd like to hear from the list their nominations of large rooms, with = say at > least 5000 seats, which have effective pipe organ installations. > Jerry > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why? From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:46:49   At 09:08 AM 6/10/2000 -0400, you wrote: >I had a chance once to play the 5m Allen at 1st >Baptist in Jacksonville, FL which at that time was the largest digital = organ >in the world. I enjoyed it but then I thought why did they have to have = the >largest one?<snip>   Baptists like to engage in a game of...er..."organ waving" with their organs, much the same way that corporation CEOs do with their Lear Jets, and so on. "Church that has the biggest "toy" wins". It has nothing to = do with liturgical or musical reasoning; it's merely competition. Community churches like to engage in this sort of game, too, unless they've gone the pRaZe bAnD route. On the other hand are the Mormons, who let Salt Lake = put out competitive bids for an "LDS Special" that most stakes will wind up with. Such "specials" are currently in production by Rodgers, and have been built by Saville, too. They are generally stripped down, cost-contained versions of stock models, built and sold on a pricing point only. It quite well illustrates the Mormons' ideology of "centralized control" of everything that goes on in their church.   Speaking of Kimballs, First Baptist of Los Angeles has an original, large Kimball installation from the '20s. Kyle Irwin, organist there, speaks very highly of it. First Presby of Oakland had a 1915 Kimball, but opted for a Rosales instead of rebuilding it. The Rosales contains precious little of the original Kimball and the sound, of course, is something completely different.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:32:07   At 07:26 AM 6/10/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Especially on one of those things where everything sounds the same! >> >> Thanks for the laugh, folks!!<snip>   Don't be so sure of yourself. Digitorgs have made LOTS of headway, technologically, in really a fairly short time. The old e-org complaint that "everthing sounds the same", usually applied to old, small analog Allens and others, where there was usually 2 ranks of generators, unified more than a Page, no longer holds true. The early Allen digitorgs sounded dreadful, to be sure, but this new stuff...well, I'll tell ya what. I'd bet 90% of the esteemed list members, when put into a double blindfold = test situation playing one, would be hard pressed to know if it were "live or Memorex"...which leads me to my next idea.   QUESTION OF THE DAY: I've noticed that some pipe builders are foraying into strange tonal areas of late, and seem to be adopting "retro" fads = left and right. Could it be that they are doing this to further distance themselves from the digitorgs?   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: polyphony From: "Robert Ehrhardt" <r_ehrh@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:37:34 -0500   Early Allen digitals had a ten note at a time limit. I believe this has increased to 16; maybe not. This refers, of course, to the number of keys pressed simultaneously and has nothing to do with the number of stops. The early Allen digitals had a practical limit, depending on which stops were used, since all of the tones were produced by a single 'computer' and over = a certain point digital 'clipping' of the signal would occur. Newer instruments, e.g. the MDS Series, are limited to around eight stops per board and clipping is no longer a problem.     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 2:35 PM Subject: polyphony     > Do digital organs have a polyphonic limit??? I know > Rodgers organs don't, but what about Allen. Of course, when you use MIDI > gizmoes, they do!!! > > Carlo > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship From: "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:39:17 PDT     >I hope your folks got to hear the organ. My mother just got back from a >cruise on the Zaandam and did not get to hear the organ! She waited = and >waited...   She should have asked the captain to schedule a concert... or at least = some computer time to play it w/MIDI. I would be disappointed if I went for a cruise on this ship and there were no concerts.   DG   ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Big Allen From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:42:26 EDT   Dear Dennis:   That was their original system 1971 with 12 key gates. They solved that a = long time ago. Unless your thumb was across two notes and 12 sufficed for most things though. You had to have both feet engaged as well as all ten fingers plus = one.   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:23:30   At 01:36 PM 6/10/2000 EDT, you wrote: >I hope your folks got to hear the organ. My mother just got back from a =   >cruise on the Zaandam and did not get to hear the organ! She waited = and >waited... The pictures show one manual and no pedal; there is a lovely =   >chair rather than a bench. I have been unable to find specs.<snip>   Well...from experience...."If it's Dutch, it ain't much!" I have visions of an Amsterdam street organ....   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why? From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:05:18   At 10:17 AM 6/10/2000 EDT, you wrote: >I hate to be pessimistic but this opulence is >false because most of it is financed. I feel uneasy about the whole = economic >boom and fear that it will soon come crashing down around our ears. I = just >hope that we can get some real, organs built that are works of art and = not >white just elephants.<snip>   As an early retiree who spends a lot of time manipulating stocks and = mutual funds, I can concur with your fears...it's just about over. Look for a major recession to hit in the early 2000's. The market is horrendously overvalued right now, even with the recent shakeouts in "dotcoms" and techno stocks. Greenspan's recent throttling of the economy through debt rate hikes is an attempt to "soften the blow" somewhat. Smart people should consider getting out of equities and going into recession-proof investments to survive the coming fracas. Looks for megaSUVs and = barn-like houses to become drugs on the market, just like big cars were in 1975. Also, I fear, such a recession will kill off many a pipe shop, and Allen will survive simply by cutting their huge profit margins when necessary.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Skinner strings From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:27:38   At 10:53 AM 6/10/2000 -0700, you wrote: >I MIGHT chuck the Choir Dulciana/Unda maris if I could find a Skinner Erzahler to >replace it.<snip>   The Erz=E3hler, probably one of Skinner's yummiest flue creations, is indeed more useful than most Dulcianas. T'would be a good move!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:34:25   At 02:10 PM 6/10/2000 EDT, you wrote: >>From what I understand any custom organ deal does not go through the dealer. >The factory does all the work from start to finish. The dealer gets just = a >small percentage of the complete sale.<snip>   True. Large customs are all factory jobs. The referring dealer just gets a small commission for bringing them in. Some churches deal directly with the factory, thus saving the dealer commission. Profit margins on such large instruments aren't all that people have them cracked up to be, really. The real profit comes from the mass-produced models that sit on dealers' showrooms, as economies of scale make them very profitable. A custom is a "one-off" design, usually needing special circuitry and many processors, and usually the consoles are also "one-off" designs, cutting into profit margin.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:51:53 EDT   Dear Jerry,   Try Yamasuccro, in Africa. It's a Catholic Basilica which is shaped like = St. Peter's in Rome, but five times larger. St. Peters on a good day holds 55,000 = people, so Yamasuccro about 270,000 on a good day. Allen built for them around ten years ago. There are 7 1/2 square acres of glass in the building!!! What acoustics!?   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: polyphony From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:54:46 EDT   Dear Carlo:   That was 1971 technology, they solved that a long time ago.     Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Skinner strings From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 17:12:33 EDT   Dear Desert BoB:   We just got this guy all calmed down, add some Walker stops, they sound = about the same as the originals and you won't be amessin' with Skinner stuff. = Why either or why not both? Samples take up almost no room, you just drill out a few = more holes in the stop jambs, find some vintage Skinner knobs and your're in business.     Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Big Allen From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:55:18   At 11:37 AM 6/10/2000 -0700, you wrote: >I thought digital organs had a "dropout" point, at which playing another >note would result in one being dropped out from what was being played -- >that is, if you're holding down 10 notes, and try to play an 11th, the = first >note drops out.<snip>   This was an early problem with MOS-technology Allens, as it was on ADC models. Polyphony capacity and processing speed began improving quite a bit with the MDS-series. The "Renaissance" series has a "drop out point" that can't be humanly achieved unless you want to play by laying your arms across the manuals.   It's also worth noting that the late analog models from Allen were indeed superior sounding organs than any of the MOS and most of the ADC models. Allen saw competition from Rodgers and Saville on the analog technological front (some of it pretty good, too), and threw in early with the Rockwell "music computer" system, knowing full well that a drop in overall quality would be forthcoming. Indeed, Rodgers' analog organs zoomed around Allen in sales for a time in the '70s.   However, Allen engineers knew that the "point of diminishing return" had been reached with analog technology...further increases in expenditures on things like filter and initial speech circuits weren't necessarily going = to return their investment in terms of realism. Also, analog technology is component and labor intensive when compared to digital (read that, "less profitable") for the same quality of tone produced. As hardware = technology improved, so did the sound, and soon, Allen was back on top, where it remains today. Of interest are the new, competing systems, such as Musicom's, which are also quite musically viable. Then there's always Johannus....   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:11:54   At 12:52 PM 6/10/2000 -0700, you wrote: >St. John the Divine in NYC<snip>partially because of the incredibly long reverb time, and partially >because the GDH rebuild of the original E.M. Skinner was a compromise dictated >by $$$.<snip>   True enough. Harrison was quoted several times as being totally unhappy with the state of affairs of his rebuild at "The Divine St. John's".   The original organ was built when only the East Transcept was open; when >the nave was opened, it was totally inadequate<snip>   Also true. Added to the lack of size with which to attack the completed nave was the problem of Skinner's 1910-era specification, still steeped in the orchestral/Hope-Jones era, with precious little in terms of effective upper work. Harrison's rebuild spruced things up quite a bit, but it was still lacking in total power. When I last heard it, it always seemed to = be lost in the gigantic acoustic realm of the place. Don't look for any remedies soon; cost of operation of a big barn like that eats a lot of money, with nothing left over for major organ additions.   >What they NEED is BOTH those Kimballs up in the back, and/or Atlantic City, if >that organ ever becomes endangered (grin). THAT building could handle it!<snip>   Yikes! Now THERE'S a scary thought!   DeserTBoB