PipeChat Digest #1448 - Saturday, June 10, 2000
 
Re: polyphony
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
RE: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: polyphony
  by <FLTim@aol.com>
Question from Florida
  by <FLTim@aol.com>
Re: Question from Florida
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: polyphony
  by "Robert Ehrhardt" <r_ehrh@bellsouth.net>
Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Question from Florida
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Wanamaker  organ (xpost)
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: polyphony
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
running out of air
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Run out of Air
  by <BooBoo8800@aol.com>
Re: Run out of Air
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why?
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: polyphony
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: running out of air
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Wanamaker  organ (xpost)
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: Wanamaker  organ
  by "Claire" <fleahopper@earthlink.net>
Re: polyphony
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Fw: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: polyphony From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 14:01:26   At 03:35 PM 6/10/2000 -0400, you wrote: >one of my Casio keyboards has a 16-note polyphony on most of the voices, = and >a 10-note on the rest, but I didn't think organs had that problem.<snip>   The early models, especially the Allen MOS series, did indeed have a polyphony problem, as well as registrational issues. With all the knobs out, hitting the general cancel would result in a rather comical display = of groups of knobs thunking in, none at the same time. Large registrational changes "on the fly" could be a problem.   >I know for a fact that older vacuum tube organs can play as many notes >that are pressed. If all 61 notes on any given manual were played, you'd >hear them all<snip>   That's analog technology...a note sounds for every key pressed, no matter how many, until you reach the limit of the power supply!   >Do digital organs have a polyphonic limit??? I know >Rodgers organs don't, but what about Allen. Of course, when you use MIDI >gizmoes, they do!!!<snip>   See earlier post on this subject. MIDI is always problematic; each manufacturer's system has a different set of limits to polyphony.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: RE: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 17:29:11 -0500   Bruce:   On a completely different subject, do you happen to know how to contact David Moore?   Thanks,   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: Cremona502@cs.com [mailto:Cremona502@cs.com] Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 12:37 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship     In a message dated 6/10/00 10:07:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hiplain@flash.net writes:   > The case is graced with two {presumably operating} drum percussion = units. > The > console, 2 manuals & pedal integral with the case, is arranged with vertical > rows of > stopknobs either side of the keyboards. The instrument apparently has a =   MIDI > interface, > so it can play the grand piano collocated in the atrium/lounge. > > I'll hopefully have more info, including some photographs after my = folks get > back from > their cruise. I hope your folks got to hear the organ. My mother just got back from a cruise on the Zaandam and did not get to hear the organ! She waited and =   waited... The pictures show one manual and no pedal; there is a lovely chair rather than a bench. I have been unable to find specs. I'd be very interest to find out more about this amazing creature. What a neat =   job THAT would be!! Playing the organ in a floating buffet!!!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:08:11 -0400   > From: RonSeverin@aol.com > Subject: Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen > > Try Yamasuccro, in Africa. It's a Catholic Basilica which is shaped like = St. > Peter's > in Rome, but five times larger. St. Peters on a good day holds 55,000 = people, > so Yamasuccro about 270,000 on a good day. Allen built for them around = ten > years ago. There are 7 1/2 square acres of glass in the building!!! What > acoustics!?   Excuse my skepticism, Ron, but that's a bit much. I know the place is = big. But I doubt that it holds 270,000 at the same TIME, on a good day or a bad one (more than 2.5 times the Los Angeles Coliseum?). But I'm really = tipped off by that glass measurement. Nowhere is area measured in "square = acres," which makes all the figures suspicious.   Who would care to define a "metrical foot"? (Sort of a tricky question, = but not a trick question.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: polyphony From: <FLTim@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 20:10:47 EDT   I believe clipping is still a problem with many e-organs...   Test 1) Play a chime and change your registration, the sustain on many organs will clip off.   Test 2) Hold a chord while closing the crescendo pedal.   Cheers, Tim  
(back) Subject: Question from Florida From: <FLTim@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 20:17:16 EDT   Dear Bob,   Are you an Allen dealer or rep.?   Cordially, Tim  
(back) Subject: Re: Question from Florida From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 17:41:52   At 08:17 PM 6/10/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Are you an Allen dealer or rep.?<snip>   Not at all. I've used and worked on their products for many years, however, and have always found them to be exemplary in terms of quality = and design, which is why they're tops in the business today. Regarding your "tests" (chime sustain "clip", chord held when crescendo pedal is = reduced), what model were you trying these on? This sounds very much like an ADC-model problem.   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: polyphony From: "Robert Ehrhardt" <r_ehrh@bellsouth.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 20:15:57 -0500   I was referring to a different kind of clipping - clipping of the = waveform, in this case a composite waveform of all the stops drawn at a given = moment. When this exceeds the dynamic range of the sampling system, the tops of = the waveforms are "clipped" off.   Robert Ehrhardt Noel Memorial UMC Shreveport, LA   ----- Original Message ----- From: <FLTim@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 7:10 PM Subject: Re: polyphony     > I believe clipping is still a problem with many > e-organs... > > Test 1) > Play a chime and change your registration, > the sustain on many organs will clip off. > > Test 2) > Hold a chord while closing the crescendo pedal. > > Cheers, > Tim > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:23:10 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 3:58:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   > On the other hand are the Mormons, who let Salt Lake put > out competitive bids for an "LDS Special" that most stakes will wind up > with. I remember trying to get a Mormon church to get a pipe organ. "Well," = they said, "we have that wonderful organ at the Tabernacle in Salt Lake." I said, (from Florida) "that's a hell of a drive to practice, and you'd = have to play dang loud to do US any benefit." He didn't get it!! even then.     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:28:12 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 4:00:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:     > I'd bet 90% of the esteemed list members, when put into a double = blindfold test > situation playing one, would be hard pressed to know if it were "live = or > Memorex"...which leads me to my next idea. I may not be able to tell the difference between fake crab meat either, = but I'm not going to knowingly buy it and would be really ticked if it was put =   onto my plate without my knowledge. Fooling people seems to be more important than inspiring them these days. TTTHHHBBBPPPPTTTHHH! ;-)   > QUESTION OF THE DAY: I've noticed that some pipe builders are foraying > into strange tonal areas of late, and seem to be adopting "retro" fads = left > and right. Could it be that they are doing this to further distance > themselves from the digitorgs? It seems that you've totally missed the point of building period = instruments. I hate to disappoint you, but the motives for these instruments is = PURELY musical! I really don't understand why there is all this hostility = toward building period instruments. Why on earth would anyone want ALL organs = to sound alike? There are styles that I don't want to listen to all the = time, but I like to have the opportunity occasionally. Sheesh!     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:41:34 EDT   I sent a note to First Presbyterian to see if they have address and phone number. Answer should be back on Monday.   David lives in North Pomfret, Vermont (lucky stiff!!). Information would =   probably be able to find him. Probably listed as A.David Moore.   I'll get back to you when I hear from the Presbys!   Happy Pentecost!!     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Question from Florida From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:43:10 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 8:18:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, FLTim@aol.com =   writes:   > Are you an Allen dealer or rep.? No, he's just CRABBY!! har har har har ahr (cough) har!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Wanamaker organ (xpost) From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:54:14 EDT   In the midst of reading all this stuff about the big Allen at the Baptist church, I just got home from spending most of the day in Philadelphia for = the Wanamaker Organ Day. I vacillated a bit about spending the day and a fair amount of money to make the trek to Philadelpia from Washington. I spent = the 1963-64 school year near Philadelphia and on Saturdays I often took the = train in and sat in on one or more of the programs at Wanamaker's and had a = great lunch in the now-defunct restaurant there. I think the last time I heard = the organ was when Virgil played it during the AGO convention in 1964 (I know = I date myself, but what the heck).   I heard Peter Conte here in Washington recently and he talked about some = of the work that has been done on the organ and the acoustic improvements to = the room.   I didn't make it in time for Peter Conte's opening program, but I did get = to hear Carol Williams and Ken Cowan at 12:30, Lyn Larsen at 2:30 and the mind-blowing finale at 5 p.m. As I write, I'm watching my "home movies" of =   the day, courtesy of my little JVC camcorder (there are also some digital still photos). Lacking Malcolm Wechsler's eloquence and copious notes, my basic reaction is "Wow!!!!" I never heard the organ sound anything = remotely like what it did today back in the 60s, and with the exception of Virgil, = I never heard players of this caliber on the organ. Despite the occasional ringing of phones, buzzing of cash registers, and clack of dishes in the restaurant, I have never, ever heard anything even close to this.   Bravo to the Friends of the Wanamaker Organ, the folks at Lord & Taylor = who I'm told are making major investments in preserving this magnificent instrument, and all the performers -- organists, brass and percussion, and =   the chorus. Fortunately there were no signs or notices forbidding = photographs or recording. My VHS "home movies" are far from broadcast quality, but = it's nice to have an "instant" reminder of a day filled with glorious music = unlike any other in my memory.   With any luck news of next year's Wanamaker Organ Day will be posted to = the list in plenty of time, and I would unreservedly recommend it to anyone within commuting distance of Philadelphia.   Wow, and again I say unto thee, Wow!!! Dudel  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:57:59 EDT   Dear Bruce:   I have the capability of playing in several different temperments with my Ahlborn Modules. I retuned 54 ranks in just 30 seconds, and used my wind cut off switch and played an entire service in Kellner temperment. I gotta tell you I = don't think I ever want to hear equal temperment again! Have I lost my mind, I hope = not?! The organ dripped pure silver everywhere. The congregation sang more = lustily than I've ever heard them. People remarked on how wonderful it sounded. = They were not aware of what hit them, but they liked it. There was nothing to interfere with the harmonic structure of the individual pipe sounds, in other words = it was a real revelation to me. Once you've experienced it you never want to go back!!!   Sincerely,   Ron Severin   PS I'm considering having the pipes retuned in Kellner too. It is that big = of a difference. It's hard to understand unless you've personally experienced = the change.  
(back) Subject: Re: polyphony From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:25:20 EDT   Dear Robert:   What you say intrigues me. Recording studios have been playing around with =   clipping for years. The ear either doesn't hear it or ignores it. Many of = the Columbia recordings of organs E. Power Biggs played were put together using = clipping in that it's impossible to play anything precisely the same twice. Clips were =   used and melded together using clipping as I understand it. it sounded like a complete performance. The movies have used it to mend together clips of various = takes, to produce a seamless transition. Is this sort of what you mean by = clipping?   Sincerely,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: running out of air From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:31:04 -0400   I was just thinking.....how many nots would have to be played on a pipe organ for it to run out of air, if at all possible? For instance, if you drew every stop, and played all 61 notes on every manual and all 32 = pedals, at the same time, would the organ 'run out of air'? How much air does the average pipe organ blowers produce?   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Re: Run out of Air From: <BooBoo8800@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:35:31 EDT   Carlo,   That would depend on whether it is a baroque tracker with unstable = winding, or a large Austin with a fabulous Universal Windchest !     Scott Myers  
(back) Subject: Re: Run out of Air From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:36:31 -0400   okay.........I would say an average pipe organ. Most of the pipe organs = I've played here are Casavants. Can a pipe organ run out of air???   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why? From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:24:44   At 09:23 PM 6/10/2000 EDT, you wrote: >He didn't get it!! even then.   What...you *expected* him to?? LMAO!   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: polyphony From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:23:51   At 08:15 PM 6/10/2000 -0500, you wrote: >I was referring to a different kind of clipping - clipping of the = waveform, >in this case a composite waveform of all the stops drawn at a given = moment. >When this exceeds the dynamic range of the sampling system, the tops of = the >waveforms are "clipped" off.<snip>   Indeed a valid problem! This form of "digital clipping" is easily heard when trying to record to a digital medium when the input signal level is too "hot"...the system, in this case PCM based, simply runs out of = numbers. Unlike amplifier clipping, especially in tube-powered amplifiers, which can be sonically tolerated and even desired (but that gets into the = gee-tar crowd, and I won't go there...fortunately!), but not so "digital = clipping". The resultant sound is usually unbearable, if not error corrected in some way.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:34:17   At 11:28 AM 6/9/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Then they were on a wonderful 78 rank Moller of four manuals.<snip>   Having been challenged time and again, I shall give my opinion as to which one of the two "Bellevues" I'd rather have. I think I'd go for the M=F6ller= .. That other thing is simply too large to deal with, and I'd admit to having trouble finding uses for all those "extras" on the Allen right away! Besides, good M=F6llers are getting hard to find.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:31:06   At 09:57 PM 6/10/2000 EDT, you wrote: >I gotta tell you I don't >think >I ever want to hear equal temperment again! Have I lost my mind, I hope not?!<snip>   Well, let's hope not. Kellner, fine on hymns...don't try anything in any off the wall keys or modulate to same, either...you COULD wind up with a real mess on your hands in very short order!   >I'm considering having the pipes retuned in Kellner too. It is that big = of >a >difference.<snip>   Not really all that hard to do, but you might get bit by a wolf playing some Romantics or Moderns!   >It's hard to understand unless you've personally experienced the >change.<snip>   My ol' lady keeps telling me that, too...   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:47:05 EDT   Dear Alan:   The Allen folks can fill you in as they wrote about it after the organ = went in. The Organ described was a three manual. The room however is immense, and the original article says five times bigger. Check it out with them and if I'm =   wrong I'll retract the statement. The organ went in between 1990-92ish. The = organ was beafed up with multiple sound systems. The building was built by the = diamond and ivory moguls of Africa who are Catholic. That's all I know! The organ itself was not of humgous size, the building was.   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:53:54 EDT   Dear Bob:   It really was beautiful!   RS  
(back) Subject: Re: running out of air From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:59:37 EDT   Dear Carlo:   Not that much! There is a limit even to that!   RS  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:01:29 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 9:58:51 PM Eastern Daylight Time, RonSeverin@aol.com writes:   > ... played an entire service in Kellner temperment. I gotta tell you I don't > think I ever want to hear equal temperment again! Have I lost my mind, = I hope not?! It is quite an "ear opener." I fought it for the longest time, much like = I did tracker action. Now, anything else is just not enough. = Congratulations.     > The congregation sang more lustily than I've ever heard them. People remarked on > how wonderful it sounded. They were not aware of what hit them, but they =   liked it. I have had this experience several times with congregations after the = organ's temperament has been changed. They have all remarked on the difference without even the knowledge that anything had been done. Even the "great =   unwashed."   >in other words it was a real revelation to me. Once you've experienced it =   you never want >to go back!!! How true, how true. One of my least favorite venues for recitals in Gainesville is the V-100 Moller at the University. It is such a dull = sound, inspite of its "vastness". There is just no life to it. At least the = organ at Holy Trinity is built with tierce-layout chests so that there is some pitch locking, but without the tension of the different sized intervals. The change is amazing, and it gets even more intense when you start trying =   out early music and some modern music. To Reger and Hindemith it is = really magic!!   > PS I'm considering having the pipes retuned in Kellner too. It is that = big > of a difference. Nah! The pitch differences are not that great, especially when the pipes = are slide tuned. Good luck, congratulations and have fun!!     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Wanamaker organ (xpost) From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:05:24 EDT   Dear Dude:   I think you had more fun than we did! Great story! The cost is finite, the =   experience you had was priceless!   RS  
(back) Subject: Re: Wanamaker organ From: "Claire" <fleahopper@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:19:15 -0400   It was a great day.....did you get into the organ chamber? Amazing to = look up above your head at diapasons 32 ft high - a forest of pipes......... :)) Also keep in mind, there are 2 days of concerts near the end of July - Sat 7/29 @ 2:30pm with Peter Richard Conte & Sunday 7/30 with Rudy Lucente - & special guests to be announced at the website ( www.wanamakerorgan.com )- a 2 day American Music Festival - Also Sat 9/16 @ 2:30 - Harry Wilkinson   Claire     snip.. I just got home from spending most of the day in Philadelphia for the >Wanamaker Organ Day. I vacillated a bit about spending the day and a fair >amount of money to make the trek to Philadelpia from Washington. >I didn't make it in time for Peter Conte's opening program, but I did get = to >hear Carol Williams and Ken Cowan at 12:30, Lyn Larsen at 2:30 and the >mind-blowing finale at 5 p.m.       >With any luck news of next year's Wanamaker Organ Day will be posted to = the >list in plenty of time, and I would unreservedly recommend it to anyone >within commuting distance of Philadelphia. > >Wow, and again I say unto thee, Wow!!! >Dudel      
(back) Subject: Re: polyphony From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:14:48 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 10:44:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   > >I was referring to a different kind of clipping - clipping of the = waveform, You mean like an electronic briss????   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:15:32 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 10:45:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=20 desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   > Besides, good M=F6llers are getting hard to find. > =20 Umm.... since around 1948, I believe.... ;-)   Bruce=20 .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 23:18:31 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 10:46:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   > Well, let's hope not. Kellner, fine on hymns...don't try anything in = any > off the wall keys or modulate to same, either...you COULD wind up with = a > real mess on your hands in very short order! > Not with Kellner. It is a very gentle temperament, as is Valotti. I = never had trouble playing in keys such as D-flat, of course this was wah-hoo = music and they'd never know anyway!! ;-)   There are no wolf intervals in Valotti or Kellner, and only small "pups" = in Kirnberger and Werckmeister. Meantone and Pythagorean, and may one or = two others are the only ones with visciuos wolves!!   aroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Fw: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 22:33:39 -0500   Then I assume that Allen mistake at the Chicago United Center was not off the floor? In a past post regarding this, a lady-salespersons' name was mentioned.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 1:34 PM Subject: Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis     > At 02:10 PM 6/10/2000 EDT, you wrote: > >>From what I understand any custom organ deal does not go through the > dealer. > >The factory does all the work from start to finish. The dealer gets = just a > >small percentage of the complete sale.<snip> > > True. Large customs are all factory jobs. The referring dealer just = gets > a small commission for bringing them in. Some churches deal directly = with > the factory, thus saving the dealer commission. Profit margins on such > large instruments aren't all that people have them cracked up to be, > really. The real profit comes from the mass-produced models that sit on > dealers' showrooms, as economies of scale make them very profitable. A > custom is a "one-off" design, usually needing special circuitry and many > processors, and usually the consoles are also "one-off" designs, cutting > into profit margin. > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >