PipeChat Digest #1450 - Sunday, June 11, 2000
 
Wanamaker program (x-post)
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why?
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Fw: running out of air
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Fw: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
The Allen, Moller AND EM Skinner at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Fw: Fw: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Run out of Air/Austins
  by "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu>
Re: running out of air
  by "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen
  by <Mattcinnj@aol.com>
Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why?
  by <ManderUSA@aol.com>
Organ tuned to Kellner - Bruce Heaven!
  by <ManderUSA@aol.com>
Re: reed organs
  by "Chris Johns" <Chris_Johns@gmx.de>
Delaware Pistons
  by "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@mailbox.syr.edu>
RE: Delaware Pistons
  by "Charles E. Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net>
Re: Run out of Air
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: pitch sagging
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Wanamaker program (x-post)
  by "edward a mc callum" <edmack2@juno.com>
RE: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Fw: running out of air
  by "Carl & Grace Snip" <cgscissors@followme.com>
Re: running out of air
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
 


(back) Subject: Wanamaker program (x-post) From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:34:31 EDT   Some folks have asked about the program at yesterday's Wanamaker organ = gala. I'll put it in a text file and will be happy to forward it to anyone interested; it's rather long to send to the entire lists. From steamy DC, Landgraf Ludwig zum Dudelsack  
(back) Subject: Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why? From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 07:34:15 -0500   Cremona502@cs.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/10/00 3:58:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > desertbob@rglobal.net writes: > > > On the other hand are the Mormons, who let Salt Lake put > > out competitive bids for an "LDS Special" that most stakes will wind = up > > with. > I remember trying to get a Mormon church to get a pipe organ. "Well," = they > said, "we have that wonderful organ at the Tabernacle in Salt Lake." > I said, (from Florida) "that's a hell of a drive to practice, and you'd = have > to play dang loud to do US any benefit." > He didn't get it!! even then. > > Bruce > . . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles > Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com > HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502   You were probably wasting your time in any case. The Mormons have carefully laid down rules, dictated by the central hierarchy, as to what kind of instrument a particular church is allowed to get. Only the most important ones are allowed pipe organs, and there are even rules as to which particular models of electronic substitutes other churches have to choose from.   John Speller  
(back) Subject: Fw: running out of air From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 07:43:58 -0500   .....This being merely a rhetorical question.........     ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Elms <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 12:25 AM Subject: Re: running out of air     > Not enough for an all note chord on my organ anyway, but then would = anyone want > to play every note on an organ in one chord? Suffering sassafras! What a > racket! > Bob E.. > > Carlo Pietroniro wrote: > > > I was just thinking.....how many nots would have to be played on a = pipe > > organ for it to run out of air, if at all possible? For instance, if = you > > drew every stop, and played all 61 notes on every manual and all 32 pedals, > > at the same time, would the organ 'run out of air'? How much air does the > > average pipe organ blowers produce? > > > > Carlo > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------- > Click here for Free Video!! > http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:08:43 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 11:36:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dutchorgan@svs.net writes:   << Then I assume that Allen mistake at the Chicago United Center was not = off the floor? In a past post regarding this, a lady-salespersons' name was mentioned. >>   Off the floor? No, it is in the new stadium. ha ha Joy Collins is the Chicago area Allen dealer.   Scott F  
(back) Subject: The Allen, Moller AND EM Skinner at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:12:02 EDT   The new church has a huge new Allen which is very exciting, the former = church had the 4 manual, 71-rank Moller built in the mid 70's and the former = church before that one, which is in the same building and was the first Sanctuary =   houses a three manual Ernest M. Skinner pipe organ from, I believe, the = very late 20's or early 30's, I am not certain. I played it one time when I = was in high school in the early 80's and don't remember much about it, but it = DID work at the time, and the console was on the left (stage right). I am = sure that the list would enjoy any info on this organ that can be found, as it = is one you never really hear about.   Scott Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Fw: Fw: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:29:25 -0500   .....and to think they could've saved Ma Barton from the old stadium!   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: <ScottFop@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 8:08 AM Subject: Re: Fw: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis     > In a message dated 6/10/00 11:36:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > dutchorgan@svs.net writes: > > << Then I assume that Allen mistake at the Chicago United Center was not off > the floor? In a past post regarding this, a lady-salespersons' name was > mentioned. >> > > Off the floor? No, it is in the new stadium. ha ha > Joy Collins is the Chicago area Allen dealer. > > Scott F > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Run out of Air/Austins From: "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 08:34:32 -0400     ----- Original Message ----- From: <OrganMD@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 12:47 AM Subject: Re: Run out of Air     > Carlo..... > > Most likely not "out of air" meaning silent, but for sure on many instruments > the test that you describe would produce a noticeable pitch sag. > > I indeed second the comment about the Austin system as one of the most stable.   I, uh, third that. At the church that I grew up in (St. Paul's in Newburyport, MA) we had a 30-rank Austin and a 9-rank Hinners. The Hinners was located in the choir loft and was -really- lacking in the wind department. (I suppose that's why the Austin was lacking in the "this-stop-actually-works" department.) There were the usual couplers, and one supercoupler, which the organ desperately needed, having only 8' and = 4' stops to accompany a -large- congregation--that could sing in parts! = Anyway, you added that Supercoupler and everything else and you couldn't play any more than three notes at a time. I remember playing the Lemmens Fanfare on that thing and regretting it.   I had the chance to go into the Austin Universal chest once. Or rather I = was sucked in.   Doesn't Irvine Auditorium near UPenn in Phili have an Austin? I vaguely remember about 25 of us going into that chest as well. I know they have a BIG tuba that takes a LOT of air.   -Rebekah    
(back) Subject: Re: running out of air From: "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:14:14 -0500   How spoiled we are with electric blowers that we forget that the famous organs of Europe originally had to be hand pumped. One of my favorite stories is of one famous organist who composed a great piece and debuted = it on a local feast day. After services a sumptioius repaste was laid out = for the parishioners and just as he was coming to "grande climax" he = discovered he had no "wind"...all his pumpers had deserted their posts for the feast table....after that an edict was issued that the pumpers did not get to = eat until after the organ stopped playing. To savour the experience, an OHS convention usually has one or two instruments that still can be hand = pumped.   jch    
(back) Subject: Re: Organs for large venues/was Humongus Allen From: <Mattcinnj@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 10:28:05 EDT   The organ there is the same as I once had in my home, an ADC8350. Just = more amps and speakers.  
(back) Subject: Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why? From: <ManderUSA@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:12:10 EDT   In a message dated 6/11/00 8:37:20 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jlspeller@stlnet.com writes:   << The Mormons have carefully laid down rules, dictated by the central hierarchy, as to what kind of instrument a particular church is allowed to get. Only the most important ones are allowed pipe organs >>   But, Dan Gawthrop tells me that it is possible for a Mormon church to have = a Pipe Organ as long as it is a gift, costing the church itself nothing. = That was some years ago - I hope it is still the case.   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com  
(back) Subject: Organ tuned to Kellner - Bruce Heaven! From: <ManderUSA@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 12:54:19 EDT   In a message dated 6/10/00 11:02:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Cremona502@cs.com barks:   << It is quite an "ear opener." I fought it for the longest time, much = like I did tracker action. Now, anything else is just not enough. . . . . At = least the organ at Holy Trinity is built with tierce-layout chests so that there is some pitch locking >>   Hear hear! Our newest instrument, at Chestnut Hill Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia, is tuned to Kellner, has, of course, tracker action, and the =   chests are planted in thirds. Bruce and the Beagles should really bugle = over this one.   I have attended Sunday church in this place, with hymns and other music in = a wide variety of keys. I have attended several Organ recitals there, with music from all periods. This temperament makes a great difference, and the =   difference is a very positive one. Come listen.   As of this morning, this instrument is now on our Website, in the = Portfolio section, under Chestnut Hill Church. There are two good photographs, more = to come, and some history and a stoplist. Also new on the Website, under = Chamber Organ, is the rather remarkable-looking instrument you may have noticed in =   our TAO advertisement for the last year. It has been built for a private customer, a musican, in a cabinet in a true Chinoiserie style, and you can =   now see it in living color!!   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com    
(back) Subject: Re: reed organs From: "Chris Johns" <Chris_Johns@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 13:57:47 +0200   >>Question: are two-manual and pedal French harmoniums still being made?<snip>   >Dunno about in France, but supposedly the Dutch are still doing it. Not >long ago, there was a dutch reed organ on eBay, full sized console in = dutch >modern design (somewhat resembling a RockOla jukeboke, of course), 2m, = full >typical Euro pedalboard (straight and flat) with lotsa stops.   Just for information: while straight and flat may be the norm in mainland Europe, radiating concave has long been the norm in The British Isles.   >Swell pedal was way off to the right side and canted, sort of like an afterthough, >typical of continental design.   What Edwin LeMare called pump-handle swell pedals, or something similar, = if my memory serves me correctly. And again, we've had balanced swell pedals this side of the pond for a while now. Daniel Roth may only have the = option of right foot swell-box control at Saint-Sulpice (1862), but by the time Cavaille-Coll got round to building our choir organ (1898) his = "expression" pedals were well and truly centred (off-putting to some organists here, = who are used to having the swell pedal just right of centre).   Best wishes   Chris Johns Musical Assistant, Osnabrueck, Cathedral Frankenstrasse 5, D-49082 Osnabrueck Tel/Fax +49 (0)541 528 2568 EMail: Chris_Johns@gmx.de    
(back) Subject: Delaware Pistons From: "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:00:23 -0400 (EDT)   Does anyone know anything about how to set pistons on Delaware organs? There is no "set" button on mine, and holding the piston down while changing the stops doesn't seem to be working either.   Help?   -Rebekah        
(back) Subject: RE: Delaware Pistons From: "Charles E. Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:08:43 -0000   Rebekah:   Yes....there is usually a switch panel located somewhere in the pipework casing that has slider switches for setting the pistons. It is really a = pain in the &^%$. The switch configuration can be a little confusing also.   Charles E. Brown http://www.classicalcorner.com       -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Rebekah Ingram Sent: Sunday, June 11, 2000 6:00 PM To: PipeChat Subject: Delaware Pistons     Does anyone know anything about how to set pistons on Delaware organs? There is no "set" button on mine, and holding the piston down while changing the stops doesn't seem to be working either.   Help?   -Rebekah         "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Run out of Air From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:38:05 EDT   In a message dated 6/11/00 1:11:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   > Hearing an organ "wheeze" and "cough" due to unstable wind is hardly > musical to most ears, and is inexcusable in this day and age...unless, > we're talking about one of those "period" things. > There is a difference between wheezing and coughing and having sufficient, =   yet flexible wind. Sheesh! You all or nothing extremisits are enough = to drive a person batz!!!! ;-) Get out of your chambers and learning something new/old/different.   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:41:09 EDT   Transposing is an all-but-lost art. Ya done good! But you must be careful... One Sunday I was playing the hymn "Duke Street," transposed = from D in the book, to E-flat. I got to the second line and went to look at = the text and read the music instead, and made a jolting return to E-flat. = It was like a power failure!!! hehehehe     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: pitch sagging From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:42:56 EDT   In a message dated 6/11/00 1:15:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time, concert_organist@hotmail.com writes:   > the organ was built by a company called "Les Orgues O. > Jacques de Montreal". Ah! Organs by Jack of Montreal. We heard some of this work at the OHS convention. Or else, he got discussed in a lecture... but the = name stuck!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: The Allen at Bellevue Baptist, Memphis From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:46:16 EDT   I was fortunate to meet Henry Pilcher at the AGO convention in = Jacksonville FL in about 1954 or so. He was such a wonderful man, and showed me the organ at St. John's Cathedral. That was his last organ, although it wore = a Moller label. I don't think the direction the Moller company took was = what Mathias Peter had in mind, and I believe it was after others became = involved at the top that things began to, um, "go south" as it wuz!!! Big isn't always better.... organ or organ builder!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organ tuned to Dr. Kellner From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:50:50 EDT   Geez.... I'll let Pieter Visser take this one. It work and all the doubting Thomasinas on the list can lump it.   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Humongus Allen organs: Why? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 15:00:40 EDT   In a message dated 6/11/00 8:37:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jlspeller@stlnet.com writes:   > You were probably wasting your time in any case. Just briefly!!! hehehee   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Wanamaker program (x-post) From: "edward a mc callum" <edmack2@juno.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:54:55 -0400   please send me a copy. i'd really appreciate it.   thanks. ed mc callum melbourne,florida  
(back) Subject: RE: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:14:37 -0500   Thanks! Are yew and the pups wearing red?   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: Cremona502@cs.com [mailto:Cremona502@cs.com] Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 8:42 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Pipe Organ on a passenger Ship     I sent a note to First Presbyterian to see if they have address and phone number. Answer should be back on Monday.   David lives in North Pomfret, Vermont (lucky stiff!!). Information would =   probably be able to find him. Probably listed as A.David Moore.   I'll get back to you when I hear from the Presbys!   Happy Pentecost!!     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com HOWLING ACRES: http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Fw: running out of air From: "Carl & Grace Snip" <cgscissors@followme.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 16:25:28 -0400   I recall that following a concert on the organ at Roy Thompson Hall in Toronto, Carlo Curley was in the Green Room receiving greetings and adulations from the attendees. I was almost at the head of the line when = I heard someone ask Carlo something or other about the instrument, and heard = a response that the organ was underwinded; at a specific juncture near the = end of one of the last works, he had drawn additional ranks into play and was annoyed to hear the entire instrument flatten considerably. A telling = tale for anyone matching blowers to organs to ensure the wind demand can be met by the blower/trunking installation.   Regarding manually-raised wind, I remember my late father (a church = organist for 65+ years) telling of an organ someplace in the Netherlands that had a metal rod running through it from the console back to the pumper's spot. This rod IIRC had a handle at the console end and a spring-loaded pointer = at the pumping location, such that if the organist wanted to drop the wind pressure for a particularly quiet section of music, he would twist the handle to "Low." As it rotated, the spring-loaded pointer would make a small scraping sound, audible only to the pumper, who would the look up to see what to do with the wind. At the end of the quiet section, the = organist could ask for full wind to be restored.   My dad said it was possible to under-match the pumping rate down to a certain point without causing the pipe speech to "break." If he were = still around I'd ask him whether or not there was flattening to any degree when this was done. I recall him telling me that somewhere along the line, = while practicing for services, somebody had wanted to play VERY softly during a service with a particular registration, but found the organ too loud. Not wanting to retire any ranks, he instead asked the pumper to raise less = wind, and they experimented with it until they found the right amount, at which point they scratched a mark next to the reservoir or something like that.   They were so impressed with how it worked out they jury-rigged this little "bridge to engine room telegraph" so the organist could call for wind changes without saying a word.   Doesn't that just blow you away! (heh heh heh)   crsnip   -----Original Message----- From: Jon C. Habermaas <opus1100@catoe.org> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Sunday, June 11, 2000 10:15 AM Subject: Re: running out of air     >How spoiled we are with electric blowers that we forget that the famous >organs of Europe originally had to be hand pumped. (snip)   It's always fun when I get to use that word! <g>   My father told me that some of the larger European organs had = foot-operated bellows that resembled a Stairmaster; one even had three sets of bellows linked together in such a way that the pumper would have to do = "crossovers" with his legs. These all apparently used a heavy-duty dowel resembling a towel bar for the pumper to grip with his hands while his legs got a workout.   >jch > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: running out of air From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 15:30:41 -0500   My great-grandfather was the churchwarden of the church at Beckington, near Bath, in England at the end of the nineteenth century. This was a job that seemed to consist mainly of lending money to the rector who was almost constantly in debt. Anyway, back in 1891 a local organbuilder, Grant of Frome, built a largish two-manual tracker organ for a festival in Salisbury, and after the festival through the agency of my great-grandfather the instrument was procured and installed in the church at Beckington, where it replaced a harmonium and remains in use to this day. For the dedication service the village idiot, a lad named George, was deputed to pump the organ. When, however, it came time for the organ to play, the lady organist found that there was no wind in the bellows. "Blow! George, blow!" she called round the organ case from the console. "I be waitin' for ye to start playin'!" came the reply. It was some time before everyone was able to stop laughing sufficiently for the service to proceed.   John Speller