PipeChat Digest #1476 - Sunday, June 25, 2000
 
Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.- Update- LONG
  by "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@catoe.org>
Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.- Update- LONG
  by "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com>
Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.- Update- LONG
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
more on Aeolian
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.
  by "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net>
Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.- Update- LONG
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.
  by "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net>
Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: more on Aeolian
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
yet still MORE on Aeolian Op. 1319 (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: yet still MORE on Aeolian Op. 1319 (X-posted)
  by <KurtvonS@aol.com>
Re: more on Aeolian
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.- Update- LONG From: "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@catoe.org> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:25:44 -0500   Rev. Ed,   There may definitely be some interest from folks here in the Chicago area in the organ. Particularly if the organ and pipes are in good condition. I =   will be faxing the information from your update to them on Monday.   regards,   Jon       At 04:04 PM 06/23/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Here are the specifacations for a 4-manual organ in a Southfield, = Michigan >Church that is available for anyone to come and remove it. > >Aeolian Pipe Organ >No. 1319 >Aeolian Co.-New York > >There are no rolls available for this "player pipe organ". >32 Note AGO pedalboard >Very ornate Cabinet > >The manuals are: >Swell >Great >Choir/Antiphonal >Solo/Echo > >There are 6 general pre-set buttons > >*All stops are at 8' unless otherwise noted* > >SWELL > >Acute Flagolet 2' >Tremolo >String mf >Vox Humana p >High Flute 4' >Mixture String p >Vibrato String mf >Vox Humana f >Quintadena Flute >String pp >String f >Oboe >Flute p >Trumpet >Deep Flute 16' >Vibrato String p >Vibrato String f >String p >Diapason f > >GREAT > >Deep Basson 16' >Flute f >Flute p >Trumpet >String mf >String f >Diapason ff >Diapason f >High Diapason 4' >High Flute 4' >Acute Diapason 2' >Tremolo > >CHOIR > >Deep Sting 16' >Diapason >Vibrato String f >String f >String p >String pp >Flute f >Flute p >Clarinet >Orchestral Oboe f >High Flute 4' >Acute Piccolo 2' >Tremolo > >ANTIPHONAL > >Mixture Strings p >High String 4' >String pp >String mf >Vibrato String mf >String f >Diapason >Deep Flute 16' >Flute f >Flute p >High Flute 4' >Oboe >Vox Humana >Tremolo > >SOLO > >Vibrato String >Diapason >Clarinet >Flute >Trumpet >Tremolo > >ECHO > >Vox Humana >Flute >Vibrato String >Diapason >String >High Flute 4' >Tremolo > >PEDAL > >Echo-Deep Flute 16' >Antiphonal-Deep Flute p 16' >Antiphonal-Deep Flute f 16' >Deep Flute f 16' >Deep Flute p 16' >Deep String f 16' >Deep String p 16' >Deep Diapason 16' >Deep Trumpet f 16' >Deep Bassoon p 16' >String >Trumpet > >COUPLERS > >Swell to Peadal >Great to Pedal >Choir to Pedal >Solo Echo to Pedal >Swell to Pedal 4' >Great to Pedal 4' >Swell to Great >Choir to Great >Solo to Great >Swell to Choir >Solo to Swell >Solo to Choir >Echo to Swell >Coupler Combination >Swell to Great 16' >Swell to Great 4' >Swell to Choir 16' >Swell to Choir 4' >Choir to Great 16' >Choir to Great 4' >Swell 16' >Swell 4' >Great 16' >Great 4' >Choir 16' >Choir 4' >Solo-Echo 16' >Solo-Echo 4' >Pedal Augment > >EXPRESSION PEDALS > >Tonal (Crescendo) >Swell >Great and Choir >Antiphonal >Solo-Echo > >PLAYER MECHANISMS > >Pedal Silent >Echo Silent >Swell Silent >Aeolian Ventil. >Aoelian Reroll >Great Silent >Antiphonal Silent >Choir Silent >Solo Silent > >These are not listed in the proper order, but everything is accounted = for. > >NOW..... >Whoever is willing and able to dismantle and remove this instrument in a >timely fashion, e-mail me your intentions. > >Be aware that there are many who have expressed an interest but after you =   >have responded, I will submit the information to the Pastor and Minister >of Music and THEY will contact you. > >Also, I have a question: >What is a Aeolian Ventil. and a Pedal Augment? >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.- Update- LONG From: "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:49:16 EDT   Do you have anymore info on this organ????? Does it work???? Does it cypher?????? Is there a Console????? Is there a case?????? My church =   may take it if I tell them.   Is it playable right now?????? That would be the most important = question.     Thankx Jason Comet     ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.- Update- LONG From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 05:19:38 -0500   I am sorry to throw cold water, but before you get excited, you should talk with people like Nelson Barden, Joe Dezeda or Larry Trupiano = that have had experience with Aeolian organs. I just went through this with a customer, and the consensus is that the windchests were not constructed to ever be rebuilt and that it is almost impossible to do it successfully. Even after they are rebuilt, = maintenance is extremely difficult. We decided to save the toeboards and rackboards, and simply mount direct valve magnets. Another alternative is replacing the chests. Anything less than this will probably not yield reliable results. Roy   Jason Comet wrote:   > Do you have anymore info on this organ????? Does it work???? Does it > cypher?????? Is there a Console????? Is there a case?????? My = church > may take it if I tell them. > > Is it playable right now?????? That would be the most important = question. > > Thankx > Jason Comet > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: more on Aeolian From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:03:10 -0700   Jason, there was an e-mail address at the bottom of the original spec, for = a "Rev. Ed", but I'd caution you: Aeolians are an acquired taste ... they = are superbly made, with really first-class materials throughout, but their = voicing is milder than either E.M. Skinner or Aeolian-Skinner (at least the ones = I've played) ... how you got brightness on one that I played was to couple all = the "String F" stops (BIG snarly Gambas) together at 16-8-4 and play up an = octave (!).   This one appears to have been built for a church, rather than a residence, = so it may be voiced more boldly than the ones I'm familiar with. But I'm = puzzled that it uses the "laymen's" stop-names, as the residence Aeolians did. = Maybe someone on the list is familiar with the Aeolian in the front of Duke University Chapel ... that is a "church" Aeolian.   The other thing is that it may not be as big as it looks on paper ... = since the Great and Choir are under one expression shoe, it's possible that Great = stops are duplexed to the Choir to make another division, with maybe one or two independent stops. Aeolian did a lot of that in their residence organs. = Ditto the Pedal, but it's hard to tell with all the names being the same = everywhere.   I will say that the church Aeolians I've seen take up BUCKETS of space, = with all those large-scale 8' stops and full-length 16' pedal stops.   As noted, the console has no combination action to speak of, just six = "blind" general pistons that probably can't be changed, except by going into the console, if that. I can't remember if Aeolian ever developed their own = capture machines before they merged with Skinner. That was the time-period when = the debate on "blind" pistons versus pistons that actually moved the stops was = at its height; E.M. Skinner was the main proponent for moving the stops; I = forget who was on the other side, but obviously they lost (grin). He commented = that "there are some ivory knobs in the organ-building business that will never = be moved by ANY combination action." Not one to mince words, old E.M. (grin).   The e-mail said it was complete; it didn't say anything about the = condition.   Cheers,   Bud   Jason Comet wrote:   > Do you have anymore info on this organ????? Does it work???? Does it > cypher?????? Is there a Console????? Is there a case?????? My = church > may take it if I tell them. > > Is it playable right now?????? That would be the most important = question. > > Thankx > Jason Comet > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich. From: "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:01:10 -0700   Since my experience with AEolian organs is virtually nil, I am somewhat curious about the stoplist provided and wonder if some expert on the list can figure out how many ranks this organ might have and what ranks might = be duplexed or (horrors!) unified. Does "string Vibrato" refer to a celeste rank?   Inquiring uneducated minds wanna know....   Ray    
(back) Subject: Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:16:45 -0700   Here's a stop-list in more-or-less normal order. Vibrato stops are indeed celestes. Aeolian did a lot of duplexing, so the Great and Choir may be = only one actual division available on two keyboards, with maybe one or two independent stops, since they're on one expression shoe. There IS more variation in the sound than the stoplist would suggest, if it's a typical Aeolian ... they used simplified stop-names for lay-people on their = residence organs ... but I'm curious if this was built for a church originally why = IT has the simple names ... I THINK church Aeolians used normal nomenclature, but = it's been so long since I played one, I've forgotten. In my experience, most = things WITHIN a division would be straight; it appears that at least some of the = pedal stops are borrowed, and possibly the Choir organ. I don't recall Aeolian = going in for unifying, except maybe pedal stops at two pitches.   ECHO (on Solo)   8' Diapason 8' Flute 8' String 8' Vibrato String 4' High Flute 8' Vox Humana   Tremolo   ECHO PEDAL   16' Deep Flute   SOLO   8' Diapason 8' Flute 8' Vibrato String 8' Trumpet 8' Clarinet   Tremolo   SWELL   16' Deep Flute 8' Diapason 8' String F 8' Vibrato String F 8' String mf 8' Vibrato String mf 8' String p 8' Vibrato String p 8' Flute p 8' String pp 8' Quintadena Flute 4' High Flute 2' Acute Flute String Mixture p 8' Trumpet 8' Oboe 8' Vox Humana F 8' Vox Humana p   Tremolo   GREAT   8' Diapason FF 8' Diapason F 8' String F 8' Flute F 8' String mf 8' Flute p 4' High Diapason 4' High Flute 2' Acute Diapason 16' Deep Bassoon 8 Trumpet   Tremolo   CHOIR   16' Deep String 8' Diapason 8' String F 8' Vibrato String F 8' Flute F 8' String p 8' Flute p 8' String pp 4' High Flute 2' Acute Piccolo 8' Clarinet 8' Orchestral Oboe   Tremolo   PEDAL (32 notes, says "AGO", but earlier ones weren't)   16' Deep Diapason 16' Deep String F 16' Deep Flute F 16' Deep String p 16' Deep Flute p 8' String 16' Deep Trumpet F 16' Deep Bassoon p 8' Trumpet   ANTIPHONAL (on Choir)   16' Deep Flute 8' Diapason 8' String F 8' Flute F 8' String mf 8' Vibrato String mf 8' Flute p 8' String pp 4' High String 4' High Flute Mixture Strings 8' Oboe 8' Vox Humana   Tremolo   ANTIPHONAL PEDAL   16' Deep Flute F 16' Deep Flute p   COUPLERS   everything you could ever DREAM of, and then some! Aeolians were more-or-less dependent on the couplers for brightness.   EXPRESSION   Solo/Echo Swell Great/Choir Antiphonal "Tonal" (Crescendo pedal)   The player controls are listed, but it doesn't say whether the player is actually extant or not ... many were removed.   Cheers,   Bud   Ray Thursby wrote:   > Since my experience with AEolian organs is virtually nil, I am somewhat > curious about the stoplist provided and wonder if some expert on the = list > can figure out how many ranks this organ might have and what ranks might = be > duplexed or (horrors!) unified. Does "string Vibrato" refer to a celeste > rank? > > Inquiring uneducated minds wanna know.... > > Ray > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich.- Update- LONG From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 06:16:59 -0500   It was normal for everything to be duplexed to play on a second manual. This was done with "bridal strings" like shoe strings passing through the bars of the chest on which the side valves are mounted. After the chests were glued up, there is simply not room to = get ones fingers in to adjust or repair one of these strings. Roy   Jason Comet wrote:   > Do you have anymore info on this organ????? Does it work???? Does it > cypher?????? Is there a Console????? Is there a case?????? My = church > may take it if I tell them. > > Is it playable right now?????? That would be the most important = question. > > Thankx > Jason Comet > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich. From: "Ray Thursby" <raythursby@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:19:39 -0700   Thanks, Bud! I knew SOMEONE could figure this one out! The only AEolian I ever saw/played was a residence job reinstalled in a large halll, so the only way to play it (assuming you wanted to hear anything but blower = noise) was to use everything at once. Made it easy to register but never gave any indication of individual tonalities....   Sounds like whoever takes this one on is gonna have a real job on their hands....   Ray    
(back) Subject: Re: FREE 4-manual Organ in Southfield, Mich. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 16:42:05 -0700   I KNEW there was SOMETHING screwy about Aeolian chests, but I couldn't = remember what. Roy kindly provided the info. Most of these organs date from the = turn of the century up to whenever they merged with Skinner, so they're all = probably due for a MAJOR rebuild, altho' the one from 1898 that I played regularly survived well into the '60s, until a hurricane took the roof off the north transcept, where the main organ chamber was. It was never quite the same = after, even tho' they tried to restore it.   Cheers,   Bud   Ray Thursby wrote:   > Thanks, Bud! I knew SOMEONE could figure this one out! The only AEolian = I > ever saw/played was a residence job reinstalled in a large halll, so the > only way to play it (assuming you wanted to hear anything but blower = noise) > was to use everything at once. Made it easy to register but never gave = any > indication of individual tonalities.... > > Sounds like whoever takes this one on is gonna have a real job on their > hands.... > > Ray > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: more on Aeolian From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 19:21:01 -0500   At 4:03 PM -0700 6/24/00, quilisma@socal.rr.com wrote: >This one appears to have been built for a church, rather than a = residence, so >it may be voiced more boldly than the ones I'm familiar with. But I'm = puzzled >that it uses the "laymen's" stop-names, as the residence Aeolians did. = Maybe >someone on the list is familiar with the Aeolian in the front of Duke >University Chapel ... that is a "church" Aeolian. > >The other thing is that it may not be as big as it looks on paper >... since the >Great and Choir are under one expression shoe, it's possible that Great = stops >are duplexed to the Choir to make another division, with maybe one or two >independent stops. Aeolian did a lot of that in their residence organs. = Ditto >the Pedal, but it's hard to tell with all the names being the same = everywhere.   The AEolian in question is Opus 1319 originally built for the home of Horace Dodge, "Rose Terrace" in Grosse Pointe, MI. It was later moved and installed in the church where it rests in Southfield, MI. Actually, the instrument had its beginnings as Opus 1175 - a II/14 in 1911. In 1916 that was enlarged as Opus 1319.   It doesn't look like there is lots of duplexing or unification in this instrument since the Opus list shows that it is a IV/80 (ranks). This is not a job for some amateur both in the removal and the re-installation and rebuilding. But I hope that the church will make sure that it goes somewhere where it will be preserved as it was built. There have been way too many of these fine instruments broken up and butchered by amateurs.   Mr. Dodge also had AEolian build a II/16 for his yacht, the "Delphine" in = 1920.   Hi brother, John Dodge built "Meadowbrook Hall", also in Grosse Pointe that contains AEolian Opus 1444 and has a Duo-Art player. That house and organ are now owned by Oakland University of Rochester, MI.   From what I can gather from Rollin Smith's book Opus 1319 does not have a Duo-Art player but rather the player that was used previously.   David    
(back) Subject: yet still MORE on Aeolian Op. 1319 (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:45:51 -0700       David Scribner wrote:   > The AEolian in question is Opus 1319 originally built for the home of > Horace Dodge, "Rose Terrace" in Grosse Pointe, MI. It was later > moved and installed in the church where it rests in Southfield, MI. > Actually, the instrument had its beginnings as Opus 1175 - a II/14 in > 1911. In 1916 that was enlarged as Opus 1319. >   Mystery solved! I knew SOMEBODY would come up with the info. That would = explain the stop nomenclature, and also the lack of some stops that would have been on = a church Aeolian of that size. Four manuals plus Echo and Antiphonal ... Rose = Terrace must have been quite a palace!   What was that other big Aeolian that came on the market some years ago? It = had a "Fanfare" division and LOTS of big reeds ... don't remember where it was = or what happened to it ... think it might have been advertised in the Diapason. I = think it was in a concert hall, rather than a church.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: yet still MORE on Aeolian Op. 1319 (X-posted) From: <KurtvonS@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 22:31:09 EDT   The "other" Aeolian was Opus. 1747 at the Westchester County Center. Apparently, it was purchased by Jim Walgreen, and has joined his hosts of other organs in storage.  
(back) Subject: Re: more on Aeolian From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 20:50:50   At 04:03 PM 6/24/2000 -0700, you wrote: >That was the time-period when the >debate on "blind" pistons versus pistons that actually moved the stops was= at >its height; E.M. Skinner was the main proponent for moving the stops; I forget >who was on the other side, but obviously they lost (grin). He commented= that >"there are some ivory knobs in the organ-building business that will never= be >moved by ANY combination action." Not one to mince words, old E.M. (grin).<snip>   Hook and Hastings was a holdout for blind combons, as well as other obsolete equipments and voicing philosophies. The Riverside organ of c.1930 finally did them in, as reviews of its inaugural noted that the organ was quite awful. The arcane H-H console only lasted 18 years, as Fox would have NOTHING to do with it. As for =C6olians, they weren't much, either, hence their merger (and disappearance) into the new =C6-S Company headed by Harrison. I've played but one =C6olian; it was quite awful, but its stopnames were a source of great jocularity. Its chest action rivaled a bad Kilgen in terms of slowness.   DeserTBoB