PipeChat Digest #1306 - Wednesday, March 15, 2000
 
"O Man, Bewail"
  by "Michael Pelka" <pelka@iis-b.fhg.de>
Re: Organ Hardware
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: Fw: Organ Hardware
  by "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net>
ATOS
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Re: 'chorale prelude garbage'
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: ATOS
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Rodgers Glock
  by <Musmachns@aol.com>
Quiet Easter Anthem
  by "Weber, Richard" <rweber@aero.net>
Re: Quiet Easter Anthem
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Royal School of Church Music
  by "Kaiser, M - Lancee, T" <lankai@netrover.com>
Re: "O Man, Bewail"
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Wells Cathedral Choir April 9 Chicago Concert
  by "Cole Carroll" <CCole@fourthchurch.org>
Looking for used pipes
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Looking for used pipes
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Looking for used pipes
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Kilgens and Skinners, was Looking for used pipes
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 



(back) Subject: "O Man, Bewail" From: "Michael Pelka" <pelka@iis-b.fhg.de> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 13:52:53 +0100     Just 5 years ago there was a serie of life concerts in the radio. Edgar Krapp (Germany) played all the organ works of JSB at the new Vleugels organ in the Buergersaal Kirche,Munich. A few measures before the end of   this choral prelude suddenly you heared a loud "bang, bang,bang..". Somebody used a hammer doing some work in this moment. After some seconds the noise stopped and fortunately Mr. Krapp had strong nerves. But nevertheless reaching the end of the choral, the craftsman decided to finish the work with some more loud "Bang, Bang..". BTW, for the cf he used something like 8,2 2/3 with trem and I do also 4, 1 1/3 playing an octav lower.   Michael    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Hardware From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:22:08 EST   In a message dated 03/13/2000 2:28:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, jovanderlee@vassar.edu writes:   << Dear List, Time again to pick brains: The older woodscrews, machine screws etc. appear of a harder quality than the new stuff from the local hardware stores. I de-rust the old stuff but that also removes any "bluing". Any = suggestions on how to treat the hardware to make it "blue" again? I'll take private replies, unless you feel others on the list might = benefit. Thanks in advance John V >>     I'm forwarding this to my husband for his answer. He's a machinist, and I =   know he's done some bluing.   Vicki Ceruti  
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Organ Hardware From: "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:11:20 -0500     --------------BCD5BADF8975D6B88963E1B4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   To Rick, John, et al.   We up here in the Great White North have a handy little thing called a = Robertson screw. The head simply has a square recess in it. The last I heard they weren't too popular in the USA, but possibly it was catching on. I = remember we had guys up from Chicago to do some work for us where I work. They needed = some (wood) screws, so someone went across the road to "Canadian Tire" to pick = some up. When they returned with the "robbies", the Chicago boys had never = seen them before. They did use them, however, and were pleased with how they = worked. If you ever get a chance, give them a try.   Dave C. London, Ont.     VEAGUE wrote:   > Hi John- I try to save ALL old hardware because the stuff one buys = today > won't last. Especially slotted and phillips heads which strip and won't = hold > the driver tip anymore. > > My only suggestion would be the possibility of 'gun-blueing'- like they = use > on pistols and such. > > Other than that, in player piano work I polish and lacquer screws, bolts = and > misc. hardware. > > Hope this helps. > > Rick > >   --------------BCD5BADF8975D6B88963E1B4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML> To Rick, John, et al. <P>We up here in the Great White North have a handy little thing called a Robertson screw.&nbsp; The head simply has a square recess in it.&nbsp; The last I heard they weren't too popular in the USA, but possibly it was catching on.&nbsp; I remember we had guys up from Chicago to do some work for us where I work.&nbsp; They needed some (wood) screws, so someone went across the road to "Canadian Tire" to pick some up.&nbsp; When they = returned with the "robbies", the Chicago boys had never seen them before.&nbsp; They did use them, however, and were pleased with how they worked.&nbsp; If you ever get a chance, give them a try. <P>Dave C. <BR>London, Ont. <BR>&nbsp; <P>VEAGUE wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE>Hi John-&nbsp; I try to save ALL old hardware = because the stuff one buys today <BR>won't last. Especially slotted and phillips heads which strip and = won't hold <BR>the driver tip anymore. <P>My only suggestion would be the possibility of 'gun-blueing'- like they use <BR>on pistols and such. <P>Other than that, in player piano work I polish and lacquer screws, = bolts and <BR>misc. hardware. <P>Hope this helps. <P>Rick <BR>&nbsp; <BR><A HREF=3D"mailto:requests@pipechat.org"></A>&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML>   --------------BCD5BADF8975D6B88963E1B4--    
(back) Subject: ATOS From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:18:17 -0500   Can someone direct me to the postal mailing address for the ATOS Archives? =   THank you. Judy Ollikkala 71431.2534@compuserve.com  
(back) Subject: Re: 'chorale prelude garbage' From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 09:27:34 -0500   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --MS_Mac_OE_3035784455_8590394_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit   From: "David Enlow" <davenlow@hotmail.com>   I heard an opinion expressed recently that I agreed with - 'the chorale preludes made much sense when those hymns were used in the service, but if the church doesn't sing those 'Lutheran' chorales, the only liturgical appropriateness resides in the brain of the organist' Interesting for discussion - if the tune doesn't have an immediate associative power for the congregation, is it as appropriate as some organists think?     David:   Yesterday makes a good example here at St. Luke's Church, Manhattan = (ELCA). Matt Knip played for his Prelude three settings of Erhalt uns, Herr, bei deinem Wort: by J. G. Walther, by D. Buxtehude, and by JSB. So of course the processional hymn was "The Glory of These Forty Days" to that chorale (WOV 657). The Postlude was a Paul Manz treatment of Cwm rhondda--echoing the recessional, which had been Guide Me Ever, Great Redeemer, to THAT = tune. The bulletin notes these convergences, of course.   At the Offering the choir sang Palestrina's Ps. 42:1: Sicut cervus in Latin, but the bulletin provided the NRSV. At the Communion, it was = Helmut Walcha's profoundly probing Herzliebster Jesu, was hast du verbrochen, = which is familiar enough to be instantly associative.   So, David, I'm not sure what "some organists think," but I like Steve Ohmer's proposition that teaching is not a waste of time. Those CPs all worked, I think, for anyone who's thinking. More so than the Palestrina, which would be essentially nonverbal in ANY langauge. But I wouldn't want to give it up just for that. There'll always be things (including = sermons) that go "over the head" of some, but are caught by others, to their = benefit.   Oh, and those "Lutheran" chorales are "Lutheran" in the sense that = Lutherans wrote most of them, but they still belong to the whole Church, and I for one, as a Lutheran, welcome their use by ANY community (just as we sing plainchant and regard it as no less ours than Rome's--and yesterday was Gregory's commemoration by Lutherans and Anglicans [the Romans preferring = to use the day of his election in autumn to avoid doing it in Lent]!). As Luther himself said in a larger context: "We should not be called = Lutherans but Christians. . . . How did it come about that I--poor stinking bag of maggots--should have the children of God called by my miserable name. . . = .. Let us purge out the party name."   Alan             --MS_Mac_OE_3035784455_8590394_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: 'chorale prelude garbage'</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <B>From: </B>&quot;David Enlow&quot; &lt;davenlow@hotmail.com&gt;<BR> <B><BR> </B><FONT SIZE=3D3D"4"><FONT FACE=3D3D"Garamond">I heard an opinion = expressed recen=3D tly that I agreed with - 'the chorale preludes made much sense when those = hy=3D mns were used in the service, but if the church doesn't sing those = 'Lutheran=3D ' chorales, the only liturgical appropriateness resides in the brain of = the =3D organist'<BR> </FONT> <BR> <FONT FACE=3D3D"Garamond">Interesting for discussion - if the tune doesn't = have=3D an immediate associative power for the congregation, is it as appropriate = a=3D s some organists think?<BR> </FONT><BR> <BR> David:<BR> <BR> Yesterday makes a good example here at St. Luke's Church, Manhattan = (ELCA).=3D &nbsp;Matt Knip played for his Prelude three settings of Erhalt uns, = Herr, =3D bei deinem Wort: &nbsp;by J. G. Walther, by D. Buxtehude, and by JSB. = &nbsp;=3D So of course the processional hymn was &quot;The Glory of These Forty = Days&q=3D uot; to that chorale (WOV 657). &nbsp;The Postlude was a Paul Manz = treatment=3D of Cwm rhondda--echoing the recessional, which had been Guide Me Ever, = Grea=3D t Redeemer, to THAT tune. &nbsp;The bulletin notes these convergences, of co=3D urse.<BR> <BR> At the Offering the choir sang Palestrina's Ps. 42:1: &nbsp;Sicut cervus = in=3D Latin, but the bulletin provided the NRSV. &nbsp;At the Communion, it was = H=3D elmut Walcha's profoundly probing Herzliebster Jesu, was hast du = verbrochen,=3D which is familiar enough to be instantly associative. &nbsp;<BR> <BR> So, David, I'm not sure what &quot;some organists think,&quot; but I like = S=3D teve Ohmer's proposition that teaching is not a waste of time. &nbsp;Those = C=3D Ps all worked, I think, for anyone who's thinking. &nbsp;More so than the = Pa=3D lestrina, which would be essentially nonverbal in ANY langauge. &nbsp;But = I =3D wouldn't want to give it up just for that. &nbsp;There'll always be things = (=3D including sermons) that go &quot;over the head&quot; of some, but are = caught=3D by others, to their benefit.<BR> <BR> Oh, and those &quot;Lutheran&quot; chorales are &quot;Lutheran&quot; in = the=3D sense that Lutherans wrote most of them, but they still belong to the = whole=3D Church, and I for one, as a Lutheran, welcome their use by ANY community = (j=3D ust as we sing plainchant and regard it as no less ours than Rome's--and = yes=3D terday was Gregory's commemoration by Lutherans and Anglicans [the Romans = pr=3D eferring to use the day of his election in autumn to avoid doing it in = Lent]=3D !). &nbsp;As Luther himself said in a larger context: &nbsp;&quot;We = should =3D not be called Lutherans but Christians. . . . &nbsp;How did it come about = th=3D at I--poor stinking bag of maggots--should have the children of God called = b=3D y my miserable name. . . . &nbsp;Let us purge out the party = name.&quot;<BR> <BR> Alan<BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> </FONT> </BODY> </HTML>     --MS_Mac_OE_3035784455_8590394_MIME_Part--    
(back) Subject: Re: ATOS From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 08:30:56 -0600   >Can someone direct me to the postal mailing address for the ATOS = Archives? > THank you. >Judy Ollikkala >71431.2534@compuserve.com   Judy   From the ATOS (http://www.atos.org) web site:   ATOS Archives/Library Jim Patak 152 York Road, Suite 200 Elmhurst, IL 60126-2806   David    
(back) Subject: Re: Rodgers Glock From: <Musmachns@aol.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 09:36:01 EST   Greetings all, I'm looking for a Rodgers metal bar glock to add to my 3 manual Allen.   musmachns@aol.com  
(back) Subject: Quiet Easter Anthem From: "Weber, Richard" <rweber@aero.net> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 10:40:33 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000E_01BF8DA1.B9E66B40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   How about Edward C. Bairstow's The Day Draws On With Golden Light? The = =3D usual fine English sonorities, an interesting organ part and the tenor =3D is mostly doubled by the alto. Not at all difficult, the anthem can be =3D found in the Oxford Easy Anthem Book.   Richard Weber   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000E_01BF8DA1.B9E66B40 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>How about Edward C. Bairstow's<EM> The Day Draws On = =3D With=3D20 Golden Light</EM>?&nbsp; The usual fine English sonorities, an =3D interesting organ=3D20 part and the tenor is mostly doubled by the alto.&nbsp;Not at all=3D20 difficult,&nbsp;the anthem can be found&nbsp;in the Oxford Easy = Anthem=3D20 Book.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Richard Weber</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000E_01BF8DA1.B9E66B40--    
(back) Subject: Re: Quiet Easter Anthem From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:14:07 -0400   >How about Edward C. Bairstow's The Day Draws On With Golden Light? The >usual fine English sonorities, an interesting organ part and the tenor is >mostly doubled by the alto. Not at all difficult, the anthem can be found >in the Oxford Easy Anthem Book. > >Richard Weber   It's not in _my_ Oxford Easy Anthem Book, but I think it may be found in the 100 Anthems collection.   Randy Runyon organist, Immanuel Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati runyonr@muohio.edu      
(back) Subject: Royal School of Church Music From: "Kaiser, M - Lancee, T" <lankai@netrover.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:19:55 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001B_01BF8DAF.9B22B700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I would like to add our Canadian web site to the U.K. and U.S.A. ones =3D already posted. It is: www.netrover.com/rscmtoronto=3D20 We are just starting the process of uniting Canadian Branches into a =3D national entity. If any of you are interested in our Summer Course the = =3D week of 17 July, please e-mail us for further information.   Michael Kaiser, Past Chair, Toronto Branch RSCM =3D20     ------=3D_NextPart_000_001B_01BF8DAF.9B22B700 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Dwindows-1252" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV>I would like to add our Canadian web site to the U.K. and U.S.A. =3D ones=3D20 already posted.&nbsp; It is:</DIV> <DIV><A href=3D3D"http://www.netrover.com/rscmtoronto =3D ">www.netrover.com/rscmtoronto=3D20 </A></DIV> <DIV>We are just starting the process of uniting Canadian Branches into = =3D a=3D20 national entity.&nbsp; If any of you are interested in our Summer Course = =3D the=3D20 week of 17 July, please e-mail us for further information.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Michael Kaiser, Past Chair, Toronto Branch RSCM</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n= =3D bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb= =3D sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs= =3D p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=3D20 </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001B_01BF8DAF.9B22B700--    
(back) Subject: Re: "O Man, Bewail" From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 14:09:08 EST   In a message dated 3/14/00 7:54:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, pelka@iis-b.fhg.de writes:   > A few measures before the end of > > this choral prelude suddenly you heared a loud "bang, bang,bang..". > Somebody used a hammer doing some work in this moment. After some > seconds the noise stopped and fortunately Mr. Krapp had strong nerves. > Geez! I remember playing an afternoon organ recital in a church where I =   was organist and during one of the pieces, a group of teenagers and the = youth director walked through the chancel laughing and talking. Evidently they =   did not even see the audience of about 50 and waved and said hello to me = as they passed by the console. Ole bre'r Brewse.... he jes = smiiiiiiiiiiiiiled!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/bruco/STORIESINGLASS  
(back) Subject: Wells Cathedral Choir April 9 Chicago Concert From: "Cole Carroll" <CCole@fourthchurch.org> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 16:33:16 -0600   The Wells Cathedral Choir IN CONCERT Malcolm Archer, Master of the Choristers Music by Byrd, Tippett, Harris, Faure, Ireland, Stanford and Britten. Sunday, April 9, 2000 3:00 p.m. The Fourth Presbyterian Church of Chicago Michigan Avenue at Delaware Place Chicago, Illinois 60611-2094 Suggested Donation: $20 Reserved Seating in Advance $15 General Seating $12 General Seating for Seniors and Students For information, call 312.787.2729, ext. 600.   The Wells Cathedral Choir The choir, consisting of 18 boy choristers and 12 men, or vicars choral, traces its origin to sometime prior to the construction of the present cathedral which was begun in 1180. Records of the Vicars = Choral go back to 1136 and it is known that there were boy choristers singing at Wells even earlier. In the 14th Century the bishop built the unique and famous Vicars' Close-a medieval street connecting to the cathedral, to = house all of the organists and men of the choir. The choir sings everyday in the cathedral, using an extensive repertoire from all historical periods. It also regularly broadcasts, records and performs on tour, visiting in recent years Italy, Holland, France, Germany, Singapore, New Zealand, and Brazil. Director of the Wells Cathedral Choir is Malcolm Archer, who is also the founder and Musical Director of the City of Bristol Choir and Musical Director of the Wells Oratorio Society and the Sells Sinfonietta. Mr. Archer was interim director of music at The Parish Church of St. Luke = in Evanston, IL during 1995-96. The choristers are students at the Cathedral Choir School, located in the Vicars' Close, and widely known for its exceptionally fine instrumental music program. The cathedral building itself is known for its famous "scissor arches," added to the crossing between 1338 and 1348 to redistribute the stresses which had begun to crack the bell tower. Although the Wells Cathedral Choir has sung once in the United States some years ago en route to Australia, this will be the = choir's first actual tour in North America. "Fresh and fervent singing from the choristers in excellent voice. The singing had vitality and a sprightly air, combined with excellence. The choir was superb, very alive, very focused, very = together." BBC Choral Evensong Review <<...>> C. Carroll Cole Arts Administrator Fourth Presbyterian Church 126 East Chestnut Street Chicago, IL 60611-2094 312.787.2729, ext. 252 facsimile: 312.787.4584 ccole@fourthchurch.org <http://www.fourthchurch.org>      
(back) Subject: Looking for used pipes From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 21:59:28 EST   Dear list: I have two customers ( oddly, both with 50's Kilgen organs ) for whom I = need to find some high quality used pipework. The first needs a good 8' Trumpet =   that will work on 3 3/4" as the one they have is a pea - shooter from a petite ensamble and stops at tenor C. The second customer can't get enough =   bass and wants a big scale 16' open wood and a 16' reed. Also looking for = 2 2/3' or 1 1/3' and 1 3/5' flutes as I am recomending that they add real mutations - the nasard and tierce are unified ( yuck ) off the swell = flute. We are in NJ but will travel reasonable distances to get good pipework.   Alan B  
(back) Subject: Re: Looking for used pipes From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 20:20:51   At 09:59 PM 3/14/2000 EST, you wrote: >Dear list: >I have two customers ( oddly, both with 50's Kilgen organs )<snip>   Ah, yes...the "pipey alternative to a Hammond" of that era. Pretty grim, ain't they? LOL   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Looking for used pipes From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2000 22:36:27 -0800   Maybe I've just been lucky, or maybe it was because the last remnants of = the Kilgen organization settled in Cincinnati, but I've never played a Kilgen organ I didn't like ... even a little 4-rank jobbie in St. Leo's on the = North Side ... of course, with acoustics like that, a sewer pipe would have = sounded like a Skinner. But it didn't shriek like a Moller Artiste or a whatever Wicks called their equivalent.   I've always found Kilgens to have excellent, very sophisticated, suave voicing ... more assertive than an Aeolian, but definitely more "together" than some run-of-the-mill E.M.Skinners I've played ... some FINE reeds in = the English tradition ... and some good strings and flutes too. I remember = less about the diapasons, but they weren't of the leather-lipped foghorn = variety in the organs I played.   True, I played some fairly sizeable ones, but they weren't in "name" = churches like Scott's, or the cathedrals in St. Louis and NYC.   Cheers,   Bud   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 09:59 PM 3/14/2000 EST, you wrote: > >Dear list: > >I have two customers ( oddly, both with 50's Kilgen organs )<snip> > > Ah, yes...the "pipey alternative to a Hammond" of that era. Pretty = grim, > ain't they? LOL > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Kilgens and Skinners, was Looking for used pipes From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2000 00:27:53   At 10:36 PM 3/14/2000 -0800, Burger Bud wrote: >but I've never played a Kilgen >organ I didn't like ... even a little 4-rank jobbie in St. Leo's on the= North >Side ... of course, with acoustics like that, a sewer pipe would have= sounded >like a Skinner.<snip>   The building can make/break an organ in nothing flat, 'tis true.   >I've always found Kilgens to have excellent, very sophisticated, suave >voicing ... more assertive than an Aeolian, but definitely more "together" >than some run-of-the-mill E.M.Skinners I've played<snip>   I'd agree that SOME of their work was of the highest quality, indeed. But some of their unit stuff was just plain awful. Over in the more "retentive" list there was some discussion about Kilgen awhile back, if I remember correctly (coulda been in here!), and there seems to be a concensus that alot of what was wrong with many Kilgens, especially the smaller ones, was botched installation and/or tonal finishing...if any. During the Depression, Kilgen was "throwing them in" in quickly and cheaply as possible, and most were never really regulated at all. However, the strategy worked, as Kilgen made it through the Depression intact, where the Mighty WurliTzer and Hook and Hastings (to name two extremes!) went by the bye-bye by the mid-'30s, as did many other builders. It's obvious that the Hammond made a dent into builders' sales, especially after the 1937 introduction of their Concert Model E, and they answered with price-leader 3 or 4r unit organs which were mass-produced and of minimal facilities and tonality.   I remember an "entertainment" (straight stoprail, console in fa=E7ade 8(?)r/2m Kilgen (1930) in the Mission Inn in Riverside, CA was a compromised instrument...wheezing from improper regulation, tonally goofy stops like a foghorn-like Diapason Phonon for any principal tone at all, etc., but not having any of the voicing or appliances of a good theater organ. It had a fine Oboe, though, and a nice Clarabella. However, across town in Benedict Castle, a private residence of a wealthy local, they did install a 3m/teens (also 1930) full-on theater organ (with a player!) that was a pretty darn good TO, with nice, liquid tibias and reeds of good fire. The Archilles' heels of Kilgens through the Depression seemed to be their dreadful relays...slow, cantankerous...and rather laggardly action. Both these examples are extant, AFAIK.   >True, I played some fairly sizeable ones, but they weren't in "name"= churches >like Scott's, or the cathedrals in St. Louis and NYC.   Kilgen was keenly aware of publicity, and their larger works showed it. They also lavished care on their "showpiece" installations not found in run-of-the-mill sales. I've never played a Kilgen built after WWII, so I can't really comment on what the sons did with their organs. Certainly, they were capable of building quite fine instruments, as was M=F6ller. Both seemed to not let discrepancies of smaller, less profitable instruments bother them too much.   Interesting comment about E.M. Skinners that Bud makes. I've found, contrary to popular revisionist thought, that his stuff was basically a nice collection o solo stops and c=E9lestes, with no pedal organs or upperwork whatsoever, and muffled, tubby ensembles made reedy at the tutti. GDH's "eclectic" approach, as some call it today, of the "American Classic" changed all that in a very short time, and produced organs of great beauty, clarity and versatility, while holding on to some of EMS's fine soft solo and accompanimental stops and his penchant for quality. It's obvious by the legacy left that both pre- and post-GDH Skinners of less-than-heroic size were of excellent quality. Even through the Depression years, =C6-S continued with fine instruments, where others were just trying to keep the doors open and their people employed, a concept rejected by modern American management in any industry today.   DeserTBoB