PipeChat Digest #1311 - Sunday, March 19, 2000
 
Re: CD release
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Pipes and Bytes
  by "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@bellatlantic.net>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Maynard Cuppy" <cuppy.maynard@mcleodusa.net>
Re: Pipes & Bytes
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Hugh Drogemuller" <lon.hdrogemuller@wwdc.com>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Robert Ehrhardt" <r_ehrh@bellsouth.net>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@post.queensu.ca>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Barry Norris" <the1220chambers@yahoo.com>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@bellatlantic.net>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Keith Pritchett" <gavioli@mceuk.net>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Pipes & Bytes
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 



(back) Subject: Re: CD release From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:11:44 -0000   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0027_01BF91B5.6FEBDDA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Dear List,   The CD contains music written for All Saints' and All Soul's Day (hence = =3D the title "Saints and Souls"!). It includes works by Britten, Stanford, = =3D Taverner, Blatchly, Howels, Bairstow and quite a few more and the tracks = =3D are broken up with verses from a plainsong hymn for the time (which if =3D you listen to carefully, the words pre-empt the next choral piece).   The copies are =3DA312.99 each +p&p (I don't know how much). The best =3D thing to do if you want to buy a copy is to email the DOM, Simon Johnson = =3D on this address: sj@foasm.freeserve.co.uk   Please also note that in a couple of months time, the termly music list = =3D will be online (look out on the website for this: www.allsaintsnorthampton.freeserve.co.uk).   Richard.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0027_01BF91B5.6FEBDDA0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3Diso-8859-1 =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 = =3D Transitional//EN"> <META content=3D3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE>   </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>Dear List,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>The CD contains music written for = =3D All Saints'=3D20 and All Soul's Day (hence the title &quot;Saints and Souls&quot;!). It =3D includes=3D20 works by Britten, Stanford, Taverner, Blatchly, Howels, Bairstow and =3D quite a few=3D20 more and the tracks are broken up with verses from a plainsong hymn for = =3D the time=3D20 (which if you listen to carefully, the words pre-empt the next choral=3D20 piece).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>The copies are &pound;12.99 each = =3D +p&amp;p (I=3D20 don't know how much). The best thing to do if you want to buy a copy is = =3D to email=3D20 the DOM, Simon Johnson on this address:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2><A=3D20 href=3D3D"mailto:sj@foasm.freeserve.co.uk">sj@foasm.freeserve.co.uk</A></FO= =3D NT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2>Please also note that in a couple = of =3D months=3D20 time, the termly music list will be online (look out on the website = for=3D20 this:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2><A=3D20 href=3D3D"http://www.allsaintsnorthampton.freeserve.co.uk">www.allsaintsnor= =3D thampton.freeserve.co.uk</A>).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000 = size=3D3D2>Richard.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0027_01BF91B5.6FEBDDA0--    
(back) Subject: Pipes and Bytes From: "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:01:53 -0500   I have a demo tape from Wicks Organ Company which illustrates the sounds from their "Allegro III" organ, a combination of pipe ands digital technology. The brochure states that there are three ranks of pipes supplemented by 31 state-of-the-art digital microprocessed voices. The digital voices are quite good.   Does anyone KNOW where the voices were sampled and which system is used to produce them on the Wicks?   Do any other pipe organ companies now offer digital voices with their organs? Which systems are they using to play back the samples? Do they use any systems which are regularly available to the public, such as = Alesis QSR, etc? I know that Red Carlson sometimes uses the Alesis QSR system = for add-on sounds for his samples.   It seems that at least some of the pipe organ companies are realizing that digital sounds and technologies are here to stay, and can be used to complement rather than replace the pipe organ.   I am not encouraging speculation in this matter, "just the facts, Ma'am"   Paul R. Swank Loving pipes and bytes in Balto.    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Maynard Cuppy" <cuppy.maynard@mcleodusa.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:09:51 -0600       "Paul R. Swank" wrote:   > Do any other pipe organ companies now offer digital voices with their > organs? >   I suspect a good many companies are doing this now. I know for sure that = my friends at Temple Organ Co. in St. Joseph, MO, have been doing it for a = number of years. They were using a system from Canada. The company was going by = the name of Classic Organ Co., but that may have changed. For details, e-mail = Jon Bertschinger at jonberts@swbell.net.   And of course, it works in the opposite direction. Rodgers Organ Co. has = been doing the pipe and electronic voices thing since the 70s. So has Allen.   I've heard even Casavant has the bug so some extent. They recently added = 2 32' ranks to the 74-rank instrument at The University of Iowa. How much = further they're willing to go, I can't say.   Maynard   > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes & Bytes From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:29:26 EST   Greetings All,   Other than Wicks and Rodgers, I know Zimmer is making pipe/digital organs. Many builders are utilizing 32' or even 16' digital extensions where cost = or space are at a premium. Take a gander at any TAO.   My personal feelings: Sure, for 32' pedal stops or even 16' manual stops, =   (ie: a 16' reed in your swell but you scarcly have room for the 8' = Trumpet). I also see the digital stops being used for solo stops such as French = Horns or similar things.   However: I would never go for digital stops replacing core organ pipework, =   (Principals, Basic Flutes, and Never Never Digital Mixtures or Mutations!) = If you want frills - fine let the digitals be added.   All the best,   The Maitre   (Awaiting flames from the EM Skinnerites or Tracker Backers) (I know the Baldwin Shnipettes won't mind!) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Hugh Drogemuller" <lon.hdrogemuller@wwdc.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:44:54 -0500   At 11:01 19/03/2000 -0500, Paul Swank wrote: >I have a demo tape from Wicks Organ Company which illustrates the sounds >from their "Allegro III" organ, a combination of pipe ands digital >technology. The brochure states that there are three ranks of pipes >supplemented by 31 state-of-the-art digital microprocessed voices. The >digital voices are quite good.   >Does anyone KNOW where the voices were sampled and which system is used = to >produce them on the Wicks?   My guess, and I emphasise that it is only a guess, is that they are probably using Walker Technical samples. I believe Wick's and Walker collaborated on the very large instrument in Dana Point Ca.that has been mentioned a number of times on this and other lists. I believe Cornell Zimmer uses Walker Technical samples in his hybrid instruments. Walker = 16' and 32' voices are quite frequently used by pipe organ builders. The APOBA has rules that govern it's members in the use of digitally sampled stops. Nothing above 16' I believe. Walker builds their own equipment , including speaker enclosures..They = take the signal from the key and do whatever they do with it from there on. I have personally listened to a number of instruments with Walker "add ons". If anyone wants any detail, contact me privately.   HD    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Robert Ehrhardt" <r_ehrh@bellsouth.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 12:48:10 -0600   As I recall, both Wicks and Zimmer use the system from Walker Technical. Walker sent me a CD of two completely digital instruments, one classic and one theatre, and they are quite good.   ----- Original Message ----- From: Maynard Cuppy <cuppy.maynard@mcleodusa.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 12:09 PM Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes     > > > "Paul R. Swank" wrote: > > > Do any other pipe organ companies now offer digital voices with their > > organs?      
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Bob Conway" <conwayb@post.queensu.ca> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 14:20:00 -0500   Can anyone give me the Web Page URL, or an e-mail address for Walker = Technical?   I have tried searching for them but have not come up with anything that seems to be organ oriented!   Many thanks,   Bob Conway     At 12:48 PM 2000-03-19 -0600, it was written: >As I recall, both Wicks and Zimmer use the system from Walker Technical. >Walker sent me a CD of two completely digital instruments, one classic = and >one theatre, and they are quite good. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Maynard Cuppy <cuppy.maynard@mcleodusa.net> >To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2000 12:09 PM >Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes > > > > > > > > "Paul R. Swank" wrote: > > > > > Do any other pipe organ companies now offer digital voices with = their > > > organs? > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Barry Norris" <the1220chambers@yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 11:57:22 -0800 (PST)       --- Bob Conway <conwayb@post.queensu.ca> wrote: > Can anyone give me the Web Page URL, or an e-mail > address for Walker Technical? >   Bob,   I don't have either of the two things that you request, but I do have an address, a telephone number, and a testimonial.   WALKER TECHNICAL COMPANY 6610 Crown Lane Zionsville, PA 18092 (610) 966-2515   John Carpenter is now the president of the company, and is probably the one to speak to with regards to a certain installation. I have used them for both pedal augmentation (some 32's and one 16'), and also tower chimes, harp, celesta percussions. They have always been quite thorough, and are eager to make their "sounds" match and blend with the pipe work.   Their PD-3 systems have an additional bonus. If a certain, already programmed, digital voice proves not the best one for a given installation, they can plug their lap-top into a phone plug and download another sample.   Hope this is helpful.   Barry Norris     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Paul R. Swank" <prswank@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:42:29 -0500   Hugh, you wrote: > The APOBA has rules that govern it's members in the use of digitally sampled stops. >Nothing above 16' I believe.     The Wicks Allegro III has three ranks of pipes (Principal 8...85 pipes; Rohrgedeckt 8...85 pipes; and Gemshorn 8...73 pipes) and the following 10 ranks of digital voices: Gemshorn Celeste 8; Trompette 8; Oboe 8; Flute Celeste II 8; Principal 16; Subbass 16; Bombarde 16; Rohrschalmei 4; Chimes; Harp.   Hope they are not risking their membership in APOBA.... (just kidding)   Paul R. Swank    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 13:00:19   At 11:01 AM 3/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:   >It seems that at least some of the pipe organ companies are realizing that >digital sounds and technologies are here to stay, and can be used to >complement rather than replace the pipe organ.<snip>   Look for this trend to continue with other established builders, also. Those who don't finally get into the electronics game are going to fold in the first two decades of the new century, IMHO. It's just the way things are. Raw materials and labor simply cost too much to build pipe-only organs anymore, and the latest digital technologies fool even the most seasoned ear. Add to this the decline of our mainline churches, both Protestant and Catholic, due in part to competition from the "tilt-up", "community" churches, dispensing pablums of mindless pop music to mollify "customers", and money for pipes gets scarce quickly. Hybrid organs can contain costs while preserving quality, if well done.   One can only hope for a renaissance (excuse the sort-of pun) in municipal and secular organs. I'm a believer that the organ needs to be emancipated from the confines of the church. The proposed organ for Los Angeles' new Disney Concert Hall promises to be of monumental proportions and tonality, which is indeed a good sign. Rumors have been circulating that Schoenstein will get the nod, thus providing the most modern example yet of "American Classic" voicing the the great =C6olian-Skinner tradition.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:19:52 EST   In a message dated 3/19/00 11:01:56 AM Eastern Standard Time, prswank@bellatlantic.net writes:   > It seems that at least some of the pipe organ companies are realizing = that > digital sounds and technologies are here to stay, and can be used to > complement rather than replace the pipe organ. Companies that are "realizing that digital sounds . . . can be used to complement rather than replace the pipe organ" are playing to the masses = to make profits. Each digital voice that is included REPLACES pipes in = the organ and thereby compromises the integrity of the instrument IMHO. = They are catering to the mentality that bigger is better, the spoiled brat "I = want the biggest" attitude. Rather than spend their money on a superbly = crafted instrument within their price range where every stop is beautifully = finished to maximum use, cheaper substitutes are included to pacify those in = "need". They may not be able to tell the difference now (an unfortunate attitude = in our society that it is GOOD to be fooled in everything from pipe sounds to =   butter), but later on when the pipes have improved with age and the = speakers have deteriorated and circuitry become obsolete, the difference will = become apparent. It really doesn't matter where the "sounds" were sampled, that organ was = not voiced for the room the "sounds" will be playing in. When the "sounds" = are "regulated" to the new room, they are no longer the sampled "sounds". So =   the purchaser is double fooled, or rather fooled and then duped!   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/bruco/STORIESINGLASS  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:28:12 EST   In a message dated 3/19/00 1:45:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, lon.hdrogemuller@wwdc.com writes:   > I have personally listened to a number of instruments with Walker "add > ons". If anyone wants any detail, contact me privately. A friend of mine sent me a CD of his new Zimmer with Walker technology. = Only the basses from the 8' octave down to 16 are digital, but the whole organ sounds electronic. The supporting foundation of the organ is not present sufficiently and appears weak. I'd rather have stopped basses and helper-pipes in the lower octave, and a 5-1/3 Quint in the pedal to help = out.   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest http://community.webtv.net/bruco/STORIESINGLASS  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Keith Pritchett" <gavioli@mceuk.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 21:55:11 -0000   PIPES AND DIGITAL SAMPLES   Don't forget that the mechanical organ builders of Belgium, Decap brothers of Antwerp, and Frans Decap of Herentals have been using combinations of pipes and electronics since the 1960's with great success. I am sure they are now using digital samples.   See: http://home2.planetinternet.be/tor-4917/ for details of recently built organs by Decap of Herentals and contact addresses.   Keith Pritchett Mansfield, England            
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:19:37 -0600   At 3/19/00 03:42 PM, Paul Swank wrote: >Hugh, > you wrote: >> The APOBA has rules that govern it's members in the use of digitally >sampled stops. <snip>   >The Wicks Allegro III has three ranks of pipes (Principal 8...85 pipes; >Rohrgedeckt 8...85 pipes; and Gemshorn 8...73 pipes) and the following = 10 >ranks of digital voices: <snip>   >Hope they are not risking their membership in APOBA.... (just kidding)   No need to worry, Paul -- Wicks are not members of APOBA.   Tim          
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:12:27   At 03:42 PM 3/19/2000 -0500, you wrote:   >Hope they are not risking their membership in APOBA.... (just = kidding)<snip>   Who cares? I don't think Wicks even participates in APOBA. I think this stems from eons of "A-poobah" members "dissing" of their DE action with = all sorts of lies and half-truths about it. I'd do the same thing, and I'd also venture to say that I'd use 8' digital ranks of certain tonalities with no problem. They've gotten that good, and can make the difference between and organ being built and one that is only dreamed of.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes & Bytes From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 15:05:44   At 01:29 PM 3/19/2000 EST, The Maitre'd wrote:   >(I know the Baldwin Shnipettes won't mind!)<snip>   That's "SCHPINETTES". Don't get Brewse all in a tizzy now!   BWAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2000 16:22:04   At 04:19 PM 3/19/2000 EST, BrewSe the Bawld-one Man wrote: >Companies that are "realizing that digital sounds . . . can be used to=20 >complement rather than replace the pipe organ" are playing to the masses to= =20 >make profits.<snip>   Show me an organ builder that builds organs strictly for the love of it, and I'll show you an out-of-work and/or bankrupt organ builder.   >Each digital voice that is included REPLACES pipes in the=20 >organ and thereby compromises the integrity of the instrument IMHO.<snip>   However, they *could* improve the ensemble of a Bawld-one Schpinette!   >They are catering to the mentality that bigger is better, the spoiled brat "I want=20 >the biggest" attitude. Rather than spend their money on a superbly crafted=20 >instrument within their price range where every stop is beautifully= finished=20 >to maximum use, cheaper substitutes are included to pacify those in "need".<snip>   Such instruments are no longer within the financial means of most churches or schools. A lesson can be learned from all those ratty 3 rank Kilgens and M=F6llers and Hilgreen and Lanes and what-have-you that are out there...they tonally suck. If all you want to do it toodle along for accompanimental purposes in a small chapel, well, fine. But if you want a more tonally complete instrument in this day and age, with costs rising daily in the pipe business, you're going to have to face digital synthesis. It's simple economics coupled with a vastly improved technology. Also, look for the pipe business to be hit with an environmental bombshell...lead. The EPA has been looking at lead content in pipe organs, I can assure you.   >They may not be able to tell the difference now (an unfortunate attitude in= =20 >our society that it is GOOD to be fooled in everything from pipe sounds to= =20 >butter), but later on when the pipes have improved with age and the= speakers=20 >have deteriorated and circuitry become obsolete, the difference will become= =20 >apparent.<snip>   Just like when all the leather starts falling apart and the chests start leaking, right? The arguement doesn't stand up. Loudspeakers are easily reconed, amplification systems here and now are almost distortionless, and more is being learned about acoustic phenomen=E6 that helps synthesis come closer to pipes all the time. It's a lot cheaper to recone every speaker in a large e-org than to releather one chest. Also, even tube e-orgs from the '40s can be repaired, and many are still in service to this day. Try that on your average, budget-priced "box o' whistles"! Most of them have long lapsed into silence due to thin leather and other "cost-savings". By the way, I've never heard any pipe organ "improve" with age. They just start to moan and groan and cipher.   Fact: E-orgs cost far less over a period of many years to both maintain and operate than comparable pipe organs. Fact: Churches are now big business...the bottom line means everything to them, especially when trying to "compete" with the tilt-ups. They see 35 ranks of pipes versus 35 ranks of hybrid on the bid sheet, there's no question as to where church leadership it going to go first. Fact: Where are the "big" builders of the 20th century? Gone...bankrupt. Pipes are a cottage industry now, and are getting more that way all the time. Hammond started eroding sales in 1935, but was held in check by their products' horrid sound. After WWII, Jerry Markowitz, Conn Instrument, Wurlitzer and yes, BrewSe's favorite, Bawld-One Pinaner 'n Orgasmic changed all that. From 1946 on, the e-org sound has done nothing but steadily, if slowly, improve. Sales of small to medium pipe organs dropped dramatically from that date forward. Kilgen was the first to go, then =C6olian-Skinner, then M=F6ller. Firms that specializ= e in high quality small and medium organs held on, and continue to do so. But the ones with smart management have their eyes on digital. Whether they like it or not is immaterial. It's just fact.   >It really doesn't matter where the "sounds" were sampled, that organ was= not=20 >voiced for the room the "sounds" will be playing in. When the "sounds"= are=20 >"regulated" to the new room, they are no longer the sampled "sounds". So= =20 >the purchaser is double fooled, or rather fooled and then duped!<snip>   So, who cares? Pipes right from the shop usually don't sound well in the room, either. Witness the legions of M=F6llers and Kilgens that were literally thown into churches all the way form the '30s to the respective companies' demises...many weren't even tonally finished or regulated at all! They sound awful, and fixing the problem can be expensive...more expensive, in point of fact, that some new tonally-complete toasters out there now. A voicer with a good ear can make any "sample" do whatever needs to be done, given the proper operating system and control software. Try that on an overscaled, underwinded flue!   I'd be remiss in saying that pipe organs are doomed in the near future. Let us hope not. But, like it or not, e-orgs are here to stay, and get a higher percentage of market share every year. Those with the know-how of how they work and how they are voiced, and that have electronic as well as acoustical skills necessary, will prosper. Those who don't...won't. The organ industry is now undergoing what is called by corporate goons as "technological change". Old technology is being slowly phased out, although probably not completely, by new technology. I lived through 25 years of "technological change" at AT&T, and saw is decimate hundreds of thousands of jobs, livlihoods, and even lives. Fortunately, such won't be the social impact of such change in the organ business. Some will retire, some will just quit, some will learn the new leading edge of technology. But those who fight change for fighting change's sake will be lost in the jet wash.   Factually yours,   DeserTBoB