PipeChat Digest #1317 - Tuesday, March 21, 2000
 
Re: PipeChat Digest #1314 - 03/20/00
  by "Robert F. Ziegler" <rfziegler@ync.net>
Re: Pipes and Bytes
  by <George.Greene@RossNutrition.com>
Pipes & Bytes
  by "Nick Grbac" <NickGTV@webtv.net>
 



(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #1314 - 03/20/00 From: "Robert F. Ziegler" <rfziegler@ync.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:10:10 +0000     On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 06:53:24 -0500 "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu> wrot= e:     > Just finished with ALL of the recent posts. > > Guys. Chill. Can we say "O-P-I-N-I-O-N"? Good!are not always right! =3D > </FONT></DIV> > <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>And that goes BOTH WAYS. Now go get a cup of coffee =3D > and=3D20 > reflect on the meaning of life,</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>'cause I'm pretty sure that it's not arguing about =3D > whether=3D20 > electronics or pipes are better.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>-Rebekah</FONT></DIV> > <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>I'm getting my coffee!</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> > > ------=3D_NextPart_000_0054_01BF9238.FCE5B680-- > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Pipedreams Radio on Real Player > From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 05:56:31 -0600 > > ldpatte@attglobal.net wrote: > >> Does anybody know if any of the radio stations available through Real >> Player feature the Pipedreams program; and if so, where could I find a >> current programme. (It's not on any stations in my area). > > Try the Pipedreams websiter, I seem to recall that Minnesota Public Radio > webcasts viaRealAudio. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Apology needed [was Re: Pipes & Bytes] > From: <Cremona502@cs.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:25:51 EST > > In a message dated 3/20/00 6:02:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, > mjolnir@ticnet.com writes: > >> We don't all have to agree; we do need to be civil. > Methnks our skin is getting too thin. Being civil and being colourful a= re > separated by a thin line. I rather enjoy the colourful rantings of > DessertBooB (!), although we don't always see eye to nose. (he sounds tal= ler > than me!). Please allow leeway for some colour on the list. > Thankque! > > BrewSe d' Schpinnette > > Bruce > . . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles > Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com > http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand > http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest > http://community.webtv.net/bruco/STORIESINGLASS > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Hey. Guys. > From: <Cremona502@cs.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:34:19 EST > > In a message dated 3/20/00 6:58:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, rringram@syr= ..edu > writes: > >> Think we all need to take a step back from our computers, take a DEEP >> breath....and >> reflect on why we are here: to learn from each other. That means keepin= g > an >> open mind, >> and realizing that we are not always right! >> >> And that goes BOTH WAYS. Now go get a cup of coffee and reflect on the >> meaning of life, >> 'cause I'm pretty sure that it's not arguing about whether electronics = or >> pipes are better. >> > Read the posts, dearie! (hehehehe) We weren't arguing about which wa= s > better, we were discussing the pros and cons of mixing and matching, > impressing and fooling. Almost everything written is opinion. That's wh= at > makes us unique... our opinions. I've found this discussion interestin= g > and scary, and, of course, annoying in spots, but, hey, that's the way it > goes. If you want pleasant chat go to Born-Again Charismatic Pacifists > Online, but be sure to select the Pentecostal or Liturgical group. > > Bruce > . . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles > Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com > http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand > http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest > http://community.webtv.net/bruco/STORIESINGLASS > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: ALL READ Re: Pipes and Bytes > From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:50:18 -0600 > > > Folks > > This is an interesting yet controversial thread and I am seeing good > points raised on both sides. I don't want to put a stop to it. > > HOWEVER, I am rather upset with some of the "name calling" that is > taking place as part of it. I was especially distressed at one post > where the person posting WILLFULLY took another posters name and made > a mockery out of it. And then also used that name in another post to > someone else. This I will not stand for and the next person to do > that will be REMOVED from the list IMMEDIATELY!!! This same poster > also made a mockery of where the other poster resides. Here again I > will not stand for this on the list.. Please be warned. > > As I think all of you know, I try to stay out away from doing much in > the way of Administrative postings but when someone is "insulted" by > another person on the list I get rather upset. We are supposed to be > Ladies and Gentlemen here, we may have conflicting opinions but don't > insult someone that doesn't agree with you. > > Let us continue with the thread but keep it CIVIL!!! > > David > (Who is also fighting a series of attacks of the pretty park virus > this morning on another list, and is not in a good mood because of > that!) > **************************************** > David Scribner > Co-Owner / Technical Administrator > PipeChat > > http://www.pipechat.org > 850-478-9635 > mailto:david@blackiris.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: An elongated "Pipes and Bytes" > From: "Joe Nichols" <cjn@nicholsandsimpson.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:03:43 -0600 > > Dear List members: > > For the edification and enlightenment of DeserTBob I offer the following: > > A list of musical persons with Little Rock and/or Arkansas connections. = I > apologize in advance if I have offended anyone, living or dead, by inclus= ion > or omission. I compiled this list in a hurry and off the top of my head. > BTW my Arkansas connection only began in 1976 when I moved to Little Rock= .. > > Florence Price, Composer > William Grant Still, Composer > Corliss Arnold, FAGO Michigan State > Warren Hutton, Unversity of Alabama > Clark Kelley, University of Oklahoma > Ernest Ligon, National Presbyterian Church, Washington, D.C. > Jon Gillock, undergraduate degree from the Unversity of Arkansas, pupil o= f > Kenneth Osborne > Edward Linzel, Assistant at St. Mary the Virgin NYC with Ernest White > Jon Rollins, Associate at St. John the Divine NYC > Scott Joplin, Ragtime composer > Sarah Caldwell, founder of the Opera company of Boston > Susan Dunn, Opera singer > Mignon Dunn, Opera singer, Manhattan School of Music > John Workman, Opera singer > Mary Winston Smith, Opera singer > Emily Cooper Gibson, National AGO competition winner > Tommy Vise, National AGO competition finalist > Paul Beckard, National AGO competition finalist > > 'nuff said? > > C. Joseph Nichols > Nichols & Simpson, Inc. > www.nicholsandsimpson.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: If I had any sense ... > From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 08:47:32 -0800 > > > > Bob Scarborough wrote: > >> >> >Unless they have a musician with some knowledge (AND principles) to lea= d >> them.<snip> >> >> Just like how you nurse along Le Grande Hammonde with not a care in the >> world from the rector, eh, Bud? > > Cheap shot, Bob (grin) ... I pushed him until he threatened to FIRE me if= I > mentioned the organ again, OR the "architect" ... so I'm sitting back and > waiting to say "I told you so" when he can't hear the Hammond beyond the > organ-loft in the new church, if indeed it doesn't go to digital perditio= n in > the interim. > > To be brutally honest, I've decided it does what it needs to do in a MARGINALLY > adequate fashion, FOR THE PRESENT. As someone from one of the lists comme= nted > when they showed up at our High Mass, I keep it under a VERY tight rein a= nd > don't ask it to do ANYTHING it CAN'T do. When the Rector decides he wants= MORE > than that (substantive opening and closing voluntaries, Sunday afternoon > concerts-with-Evensong, etc.), then I'm sure the issue will get re-opened= .. He > DOES more-or-less accept it when he asks for something and I tell him tha= t (1) > the choir can't sing it, or (2) the organ can't play it. The most unfortu= nate > thing about the situation is that I couldn't get them to do SQUAT about PLANNING > for a pipe organ in the new building, beyond bracing the organ-loft floor= to > accept the load. > > In the meantime, pray that my wealthy young doctor parishioner pursues th= e issue > ... THAT'S the way we'll get a new organ, after the manner of Anglicans .= .. > CHECKBOOKS speak VOLUMES (grin). The Rector's no fool ... he won't turn d= own a > $100K-$200K donation for an Organ Clearing House transplant for the sake = of not > hurting the feelings of the widow of the donor of the $11K Hammond. That'= s cold, > to be sure, but that's church politics. > > Cheers, > > Bud > >> >> >> >> For better or worse, that's the way it is. >> > >> >Doesn't have to be ... At least not as long as there's OHS and and Orga= n >> Clearing House (grin).<snip> >> >> The latter being a sadly overlooked resource. Fine little instruments (= and >> some larger!) go without new homes for long periods of time. Perhaps it= 's >> sheer ignorance, or just the want by the "brat boys" for all the "bells = and >> whistles", as BrewSe mentioned so well. However, the e-org business is >> highly organized, and profit-driven. They send salesmen to all churche= s >> contemplating new sanctuaries or remodeling jobs. Where's OCH? They ne= ver >> heard of them. 70 years ago, Kilgen, M=F6ller, even the vaunted =C6-S had >> scads of distributers' agents doing the same thing. How many pipe conce= rns >> are aggressive about sales nowadays, at least up to the level of what th= e >> Allen and Rodgers dealers do? Few, if any, I'd surmise. >> >> This sort of complacency is precisely how the nation's railroads lost >> megatons of freight to trucks from the 1940's on, and how a snooty, unaw= are >> AT&T lost almost half its market share to competitors...they didn't "sel= l". >> No sale, no money. No money, NO survival rate! It's economics. Deal >> with it. >> >> DeserTBoB >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: If I had any sense ... > From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:32:31 > > At 08:47 AM 3/20/2000 -0800, you wrote: > >>Cheap shot, Bob (grin)<snip> > > Nah, no cheap shot intended. Your fight over there at St. > Matt's-by-the-Burger-King is well documented. I still can't understand > what his aversion to planning for a servicable, quality instrument at a > decent price is...especially since you'll even shown then the possibility > of OCH. And an Anglican congregation at that! > >>When the Rector decides he wants MORE >>than that (substantive opening and closing voluntaries, Sunday afternoon >>concerts-with-Evensong, etc.), then I'm sure the issue will get re-opened= .. > When he wants more, have a banner unfurl that says, "Cap'n, I don't think > she'll take any more!" > > >>In the meantime, pray that my wealthy young doctor parishioner pursues th= e > issue >>... THAT'S the way we'll get a new organ, after the manner of Anglicans .= .. >>CHECKBOOKS speak VOLUMES (grin). > > Catholic churches, also. All the decent organs found in Catholic churche= s > that I've played in were solely the work on one parishioner with a glut o= f > cash. When left to their own devices, RCs used to buy Hammonds by the > boxcar load. > > The Rector's no fool ... he won't turn down a >>$100K-$200K donation for an Organ Clearing House transplant for the sake > of not >>hurting the feelings of the widow of the donor of the $11K Hammond. That'= s > cold, >>to be sure, but that's church politics.<snip> > > I remember a church, where the "somewhat well-to-do" congregants kept > donating inadequte e-orgs one right after the other, as if throwing more = of > them into the big sanctuary would cure the problem....duh! At the end, t= he > place wound up with: > > A 1949 Hammond RT-2 > A 1956 Allen C-3 > A 1968 2-manual Rodgers > > ...all in the same barn! One up front, one in the back, and one crammed > into the...baptismal font??? The old pastor didnt' want to insult any o= f > the denors, it seemed. Place was equipped for organ trios, however! > > DeserTBoB > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: NEW QUESTION > From: "Joe Nichols" <cjn@nicholsandsimpson.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:34:25 -0600 > > thoehn@theatreorgans.com wrote: > >>Does the APOBA have a regulation regarding how to specify the number of >>ranks in an instrument > > Not being a member of APOBA I cannot speak for them or their regulations. > However, as a member of the AIO and chairman of its Ethics Committee I c= an > tell you that the allegations laid forth in the rest of the above quoted > post are absolutely contrary to our Code of Ethics. AIO membership is > composed of individuals and APOBA membership is composed of firms. Most > APOBA firms have several employees who are members in AIO. I would be > astounded and most surprised if ANY of the allegations brought forth coul= d > be substantiated against any APOBA member firm. > >> Does a 12 note extension to a rank constitute an additional rank? > No, of course not. > >>....if a manufacturer who is a member of APOBA can >>embellish stop lists and specifications by turning a 73 note set of >>pipes (16-8) into 2 individual 61 note ranks or an 85 note rank (16-8-4) >>and call it 3 individual ranks of 61 notes in the proposal to the >>church. The last time I looked 3 61 note ranks equalled 183 pipes, not >>85. Yet proposals are out there that are misleading the consumer. > > Perhaps the formatting of the stoplist is confusing you. Are straight ra= nks > listed in the proposal as having 61 PIPES and unit stops as 61 NOTES? In > our work we prefer to list unit stops as 16 Gedeckt 12 pipes, 8 Gedeckt 6= 1 > pipes. Some builders list a unit stop as 16 Gedeckt 73 pipes, 8 Gedeckt = 61 > NOTES. We do not count as stops or ranks nor assign any pipe count to > digital 32's. Other builder's variously list them as NOTES or Generators= .. > At the beginning of every one of our proposals the Stop count and Rank co= unt > are listed. A four rank mixture is counted as four ranks and one stop. = A > 73 note unit stop is counted as one stop and one rank. Some builder's us= e > the term Register and will count individual unit stops in the stop count.= I > can see where this can be misleading. But the rank count should always b= e > accurate. > >>And what about the manufacturer who makes tonal modification to an >>instrument moving a rank from one location to another in the same >>instrument (from Sw to CH) and adding the same 61 pipes into the new >>enlarged specification a second time? > > I can only assume that you are talking about duplexed stops. If a stop i= s > duplexed to another division we merely list which division it comes from = and > assign it no note or pipe count. i.e. 8 Gedeckt SWELL. Again, some > builder's may list a duplexed stop as 8 Gedeckt 61 NOTES. > >>Is this really what APOBA members are like? If it is I'll take the plug >>in any day of the week...at least I know what I'm getting when it's >>delivered.... > > My, oh my, what a can of worms that could open!! Truth in advertising > should be an absolute mandate for both industries. If you know of any > claims of false advertising that can be substantiated against APOBA membe= r > firms or AIO members, I can assure you these organizations would be more > than happy to investigate and clear up any "fuzzy" matters. > > The AIO Code of Ethics can be found at http://www.pipeorgan.org > > C. Joseph Nichols > Nichols & Simpson, Inc. > www.nicholsandsimpson.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes > From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 10:39:17 > > At 06:43 AM 3/20/2000 -0500, you wrote: > >>Hey! I loved my Lane!<snip> > > Please tell us more about it! > > dB > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: ALL READ Re: Pipes and Bytes > From: "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@catoe.org> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 09:55:34 -0600 > > UUUUURRRGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! > > Thought you might like a sympathetic note..... > > jch > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: RE: Pipedreams Radio on Real Player > From: "Jon Roussos" <Jon.Roussos@trw.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 11:16:38 -0800 > > Pipedreams has a website http://www.pipedreams.org/ > > They have a new feature of an archive, currently only the most recent > program is available. Last time I checked, they only broadcast live and > rebroadcast on Monday morning. > > For those of us in Pipedreams deprived areas like San Diego this a real benefit. > Happy Listening > Jon Roussos > > ldpatte@attglobal.net Asked > > Does anybody know if any of the radio stations available through Real > Player feature the Pipedreams program; and if so, where could I find a > current programme. (It's not on any stations in my area). > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Xpost: Recital review: Krista Rakich > From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 19:45:26 -0000 > >>Gospel Scenes (1994) . . . James Biery (b1956) > What is his stuff like, I have a couple of his Dupre recording, but I did= n't > know he wrote himself. Is it anything like Dupre? > > Richard > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Apology needed and given > From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 12:40:59 > > At 10:25 AM 3/20/2000 EST, you wrote: > >>> We don't all have to agree; we do need to be civil. > > As it's been related to me that many have been upset over recent > developments, I offer my humble apology to all for having disrupted the l= ist. > > DeserTBoB > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: If I had any sense ... > From: <Cremona502@cs.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:27:43 EST > > In a message dated 3/20/00 1:33:11 PM Eastern Standard Time, > desertbob@rglobal.net writes: > >> I still can't understand >> what his aversion to planning for a servicable, quality instrument at a >> decent price is...especially since you'll even shown then the possibili= ty >> of OCH. And an Anglican congregation at that! > I'll go out on a limb here, but many clergy are weenies and will not jump= on > the band wagon until others have the horses harnessed and the goods loade= d. > When someone else comes up with the idea and funds for the pipe organ, R= ev > Armour Starr will hop in and rally all of the support behind him so that > credit can be properly applied. It's costs money for an architect to > change plans to include something nor originally planned for. A quiet l= unch > on the sly with the architect before things got going might have planted = the > seed. Had it been the architect's idea and originally included in the p= lans, > it probably would have had a chance.. > > Bruce > . . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles > Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com > http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand > http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest > http://community.webtv.net/bruco/STORIESINGLASS > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Hey. Guys. > From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:16:57 > > At 10:34 AM 3/20/2000 EST, you wrote: >>If you want pleasant chat go to Born-Again Charismatic Pacifists >>Online, but be sure to select the Pentecostal or Liturgical group.<snip= > > > BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! > > That one was a PIP! > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Xpost: Recital review: Krista Rakich > From: <Cremona502@cs.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:47:36 EST > > In a message dated 3/20/00 2:44:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, > rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk writes: > >> >Gospel Scenes (1994) . . . James Biery (b1956) >> What is his stuff like, I have a couple of his Dupre recording, but I > didn't >> know he wrote himself. Is it anything like Dupre? > Not even remotely. It is more starke, perhaps more like advanced Hindemi= th, > or ... well, it's just unique and pleasantly contemporary. It definitel= y > does not fall in the "planned noise" category. I hope you like 'em; I= was > surprised that I did. > > Bruce > . . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles > Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com > http://community.webtv.net/cremona84000/ALLHAILTHEPOWERand > http://community.webtv.net/hydrant/TheBeaglesNest > http://community.webtv.net/bruco/STORIESINGLASS > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: NEW QUESTION..... > From: "ray ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:54:09 PST > >> >>Hey...it's a commercial trade organization. They can cheat, but the >>competition can't. SOP for business organizations. >> >>DeserTBoB > > The amount of personal baggage brought in by DB is simply frightening. D= id > you get attacked by a stray Moller or something? > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: St. Thomas, Leipzig, Sauer organ > From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersv.edu> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:54:22 -0400 > > > Can anyone report on the current condition of the Sauer organ am die > Thomaskirche bei Leipzig? And the newer tracker, too? > > > Cordially, > > > Karl E. Moyer > > Lancaster PA > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Subject: Re: Apology needed [was Re: Pipes & Bytes] > From: "ray ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> > Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2000 14:56:45 PST > > Who appointed you moderator? > >>From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> > > <snip> >>I was offended by Tim Bovard's personal attacks on Bob Scarborough. >>Fairness >>also demands that I take offense by Bob's response in which he writes: >> >> > As I said to Dim Bovine...deal with it. >> >>Again I feel an apology is in order. >> >>We don't all have to agree; we do need to be civil. >> >> >> >> >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > End of PipeChat Digest > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes and Bytes From: <George.Greene@RossNutrition.com> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 16:24:34 -0500     This is not "organic", but our church recently had similar discussions = about replacing the piano, which had become impossible to keep in tune due to a warped frame. When we started talking about buying another piano, several members wanted to know why on earth we would want to get a piano instead = of an electronic keyboard. One of my contentions was that, thirty years from = now, someone somewhere will still be using the piano while we will be lucky if = the keyboard is still in operation in five years! Then I told them about a = wedding that I attended where there was a power failure and they were forced to = use the piano. I also mentioned the fact that we already have a fake organ, = because we can't afford pipes, but there is no corresponding monetary excuse for = having a fake piano! Fortunately my side won the battle and the church has = purchased a real piano.    
(back) Subject: Pipes & Bytes From: "Nick Grbac" <NickGTV@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2000 14:27:18 -0800 (PST)   Most of these posts have been "black or white"...either it's ok to augment pipes w/electronics (OR augment electronics w/pipes). It seems like practicality has left this argument.   Yes, we would all like to see (given a choice) a well-designed, comprehensive, finely voiced all-pipe organ. But realistically speaking, it's not always practical. My experience (several years in the San Francisco Bay Area working both as organist in one church, assistant at another and doing the tradiional wedding/fill in at other churches) has shown that for MANY small- to medium-sized churches, you end up (by necessity) with the least expensive, least complicated alternative.   In one case, one church had a II/8 Pilcher that was, frankly, awful. It essentially had two "modes:" hymn accompaniment and quiet preludes. Both the instrument's resources and the costs of revoicing and refurbishing were too high compared to installing a 3 manual, slightly used Rodgers. Adding the Rodgers improved the perception of organ music in the parish, led to a choir being formed, concerts happened in the church, etc.   Some might argue that's just one case...you're right. In going to several churches and playing pipes/elecronics of all ages, sizes, conditions, etc. it seemed as though whatever the age of the organ, the electronics were more usable...you knew that most or all of it would be working. The oldest electronic I ever played was my very first wedding...an ancient Baldwin--everything worked and sounded ok (not great, but it worked for the preludes and the in/out marches). By contrast, I can only think of two pipe organs that were virtually trouble-free...the rest were, in some cases, a nightmare. And FWIW, I'm not just talking about little dirtwater churches, I'm also talking about a MAJOR pipe organ in the area (I'll leave it up to you...if you know SF, you probably know this instrument).   And frankly, while the OCH performs an outstanding and needed function, for some churches it becomes less than practical--part of the "...and if" syndrome. If the parish goes with OCH, AND IF there's an instrument that suits our building, AND IF someone can go get it, AND IF we have/know of someone to install it (or can afford to pay to move/install it), AND IF we have enough volunteers to help reinstall it, AND IF we have the $$ to maintain it for the long term, we (the small/medium sized church) can get a pipe organ at a good price. IF, OTOH, you have just an organist who perhaps doesn't have the resources, contacts, knowledge, whatever to help in maintaining a pipe organ, then what do you do?   Rather than taking this backdoor approach to the electronic/pipes argument, perhaps a better, more productive discussion for us would be "How do we foster more of an interest in the organ as a worship instrument ?"       NickGTV