PipeChat Digest #1374 - Tuesday, May 2, 2000
 
Excellent flue pipe air flow videos.
  by "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com>
Hanson and Washington
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Trade Secrets
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Presidents of the United States who Played the organ
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Bach Cantatas and Japanese
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Trade Secrets
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
ALL READ  Re: Bach Cantatas and Japanese
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Bach Cantatas and Japanese
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Huge german organ
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Bach Cantatas and Japanese
  by <Pblobaum@aol.com>
Re: Huge german organ
  by "antoni scott" <ascott@epix.net>
Re: Huge german organ
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Huge german organ
  by "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organist opening -- Baltimore, MD area (fwd)
  by "Jonell Lindholm" <jlindhol@bcpl.net>
Re: Do I Smell A Rat???
  by "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net>
Re: Organist opening -- Baltimore, MD area (fwd)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Fw: Trade Secrets
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Dust proofing...was .question..xx posted..
  by "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net>
Re: Excellent flue pipe air flow videos.
  by "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net>
 


(back) Subject: Excellent flue pipe air flow videos. From: "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 13:13:32 PDT   Soory guys one more post:   >most of them somehow believing that the >"windsheet" would flop back and forth between the interior and >exterior >surfaces of the lip.   Here is the definitive video of the motion of the flue pipe air jet:   initial flow: http://member.aol.com/ReinerJank/em-ani2.htm   steady state in a closed pipe. http://member.aol.com/ReinerJank/klgd-ani.htm   steady state in an open pipe. http://member.aol.com/ReinerJank/em-ani.htm   I found these fascinating.   Dave   ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Hanson and Washington From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 16:30:23 -0400   > From: JKVDP@aol.com > > Did I miss something in US History or did you miss some letters on your > keyboard?   Jerry:   We all did. Unless you're Swedish or a Marylander. There was a series of eight presidents under the Articles of Confederation (from 1781 through early 1789, one-year terms); when that constitution was replaced by the present one, we went to four-year terms; the first president under THAT arrangement was pulled out of retirement in Virginia. The first "first president" was John Hanson, Swedish-American (on his father's side) from Frederick, Maryland. It's taught in the schools there, and in Swedish Sunday-School texts, but not much anywhere else. (The World Almanac = covers the details rather condescendingly.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Trade Secrets From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:08:01 -0700   There's also another element present ... threads have raged about it from = time to time: most pipe-organ-builders guard their "secrets" as jealously as = the electronics people, so there isn't the body of literature about pipe-organ building that there should be. The stuff manages to get passed down, but = we still need a more comprehensive apprenticeship program AND some real "care = and feeding" books.   Audsley is FUN, nevertheless (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 11:02 AM 5/1/2000 PDT, you wrote: > >>-- I'd strongly >suggest > >>that you seek out copies of the Audsley "The Art of Organ-Building" > > > >I've read Audsley cover to cover several times -- it has the smell of > >obsolete and old-fashioned dogmatism. I've also read Dictionary of = Pipe > >Organ Stops several times cover to cover, found it to contain as much > >pipemaking myth and poetry as any real science.<snip> > > As revered as Audsley's works are, they show that Audsley himself didn't > have a clue as to how flue pipes really work. The same can be said of > Irwin, who skirts most technical issues. The first, to my recollection, = to > publish a work that showed how flues really work was Ernest Skinner, in > 1917, in "The Modern Organ". Up to that time, there were as many = theories > as their were builders and wags, most of them somehow believing that the > "windsheet" would flop back and forth between the interior and exterior > surfaces of the lip. Skinner proved this to be false, showing that the > wind stays at all times outside of the pipe cavity. > > For a gizmo that's been around since Greek times, there sure is a = paucity > of pure science as to its operation! The electronic interloper, = however, > is based on volumes of research and development; however, most of that = has > been jealously guarded as "trade secrets". Strange, eh what! > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Presidents of the United States who Played the organ From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 17:16:34 -0500   Alan Freed, wrote, in part:   > >Elizabeth was the home of Elias Boudinot........ who had been the = second > president of the United States. His home is an historic site there.   to which Jerry responded   > Alan: Did I miss something in US History or did you miss some letters on = your > keyboard?   To which I point out that before the election of President George = Washington, after the adoption of the Constitution, the governing document for the = Republic was the "Articles of Confederation", under which there were, IIRC, eleven Presidents.   To keep this on topic, does anyone know if any of these eleven, or the the = other forty odd men who have served as President, were organists?    
(back) Subject: Re: Bach Cantatas and Japanese From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:27:22 EDT   Lighten up Bob, I know that he ment EM Skinner.  
(back) Subject: Re: Trade Secrets From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 15:28:56   At 03:08 PM 5/1/2000 -0700, Beach Bud wrote: >Audsley is FUN, nevertheless (grin)<snip>   Well, he's quintessentially British, that's for sure!   dB    
(back) Subject: ALL READ Re: Bach Cantatas and Japanese From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 18:35:08 -0500   Folks   We have gotten way off topic here with this. I hope that we can wind it up very shortly.   It is funny - someone thinks that Reed organs are off-topic and then we go off on something that is COMPLETELY unrelated to organs except for a couple of posts where people tried to include some vague references to organs in Japan.   I would much prefer to hear more about Reed organs than all of what has been coming on this thread. And some of the posts have gotten a little "flame-able" during this discussion.   Happy PipeChatting   David   **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org 850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Bach Cantatas and Japanese From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 08:59:17 +0800   That's better Alan. Thank you! Bob E.   Alan Freed wrote:   > > From: Bob Elms <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> > > > > Enthusiastic Christians who practise their faith! We don't see any > > difference in the way they practise their Christianity and the way we = do ours. > > They think enough of our brand of Christianity to have joined with us. = Can we > > be closer than that? > > Bob, I agree with your observations (you should SEE the Korean = congregations > here in New York City), and am delighted if they result in holes being > punched in my thinking! Maybe what I meant was not so much that the = Asians > fail to be Christians, but that the Christians fail to treasure their = Asian > roots! Is that any better? > > Alan > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Huge german organ From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:06:00 EDT   OK. Here is something that is on topic. I once heard an anecdotal account = of how the Germans built an enormous organ in the 1930's to rival the = Wannamaker and Atlantic City organs. It was in the "Adolph Hitler Halle" in Berlin = and tied up the major German organbuilders for several years. It was = subsiquently bombed into oblivion. It this story true or total BS? I have never been = able to find any evidence of it.   Alan B.  
(back) Subject: Re: Bach Cantatas and Japanese From: <Pblobaum@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:45:29 EDT   Goodbye everyone...   Whenever Ive posted, my posts have been criticized by many and the list owner. I do not enjoy this, nor having my own experiences with the pipe organ put down. I didn't realize you had to be a prima donna recitalist = to subscribe.   Paul Blobaum Organist/ Chancel Choir Director Trinity Lutheran Church Park Forest IL  
(back) Subject: Re: Huge german organ From: "antoni scott" <ascott@epix.net> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 21:49:59 -0400   To the list:   A 325 rank organ was supposedly built by Steinmeyer and completely destroyed during the war. However, it never came close to the Atlantic City Organ or the Wanamaker Organ in size.   Antoni   TRACKELECT@cs.com wrote: > > OK. Here is something that is on topic. I once heard an anecdotal = account of > how the Germans built an enormous organ in the 1930's to rival the = Wannamaker > and Atlantic City organs. It was in the "Adolph Hitler Halle" in Berlin = and > tied up the major German organbuilders for several years. It was = subsiquently > bombed into oblivion. It this story true or total BS? I have never been = able > to find any evidence of it. > > Alan B. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Huge german organ From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 21:55:31 EDT   325 ranks is nothing to sneeze at ( gezundheit ). Where did you here about =   this organ and what, if any, details do you know?   Alan B.  
(back) Subject: Re: Huge german organ From: "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:44:21 -0400 (EDT)   Excerpts from mail: 1-May-100 Huge german organ by TRACKELECT@cs.com > OK. Here is something that is on topic. I once heard an anecdotal = account of > how the Germans built an enormous organ in the 1930's to rival the Wannamaker > and Atlantic City organs. It was in the "Adolph Hitler Halle" in Berlin [snip]   I believe the hall was in Nurnberg. Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Organist opening -- Baltimore, MD area (fwd) From: "Jonell Lindholm" <jlindhol@bcpl.net> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:52:39 -0400 (EDT)     Trinity Ev. Lutheran Church -- Reisterstown, MD Immediate opening for organist   * Organist only - to work closely with Choir Director and pastor in planning worship services.   * Two worship services beginning June 18 through labor Day: 8:30 AM (Traditional Worship) and 10:00 AM (Contemporary Worship)   * Three worship services beginning September 10: 8:30AM (Traditional) 9:45AM (brief form of Traditional Worship) and 11:00AM (Contemporary Worship)   * One choir (senior - adult) rehearsal each Wednesday evening 7:30-9PM September thru June.   * Rodgers 950 3-manual digital organ purchased November '98. 74 rank stop specifications, draw knob console, velocity keyboard.   Salary is negotiable.   Position begins July 1, 2000. Applicants should contact Carol Olson using the contact info below:   Email: ho@harryolson.com Phone (410)581-2982(evenings only) Fax (410)581-3293   Or mail resume to: Carol Olson 4500 Chaucer Way Unit 401 Owings Mills, MD 21117     *********************************** * Jonell Lindholm * * Reisterstown, MD USA * * jlindhol@bcpl.net * ***********************************        
(back) Subject: Re: Do I Smell A Rat??? From: "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 23:02:05 -0400       Dave G. wrote:   > This is my last post for a while.   <<But we still haven't resolved the issue of what material will make good swell shades while still being trnasparent to reveal the beautifully polished wood pipes used throughout!>>   Dave,   I procrastinated on posting this, but how does an organ without expression = have swell shades? It was possibly stuff like this that lead some people to = wonder about the authenticity or sincerity of the postings on the new organ you = want to build. If indeed this is a true and sincere undertaking, then I would = like to suggest that when it comes to the plexi-glas swell shades, you should do = some more serious and deeper research into this matter. Undoubtedly, there is = some well seasoned organ building experience on this list. On the other hand, though, there is also alot of opinion. As I have mentioned before, the = Gabriel Kney organ at Roy Thomson Hall in Toronto has plexi-glas swell shades on = the Swell and Brustwerk divisions, and although people have commented on other aspects of the organ (pro and con), I have never heard a negative word = about the shades. I believe it would be advantageous if you could try to get out to = hear organs employing this feature "in the flesh", thereby drawing your own conclusions on the matter. I don't know how far away you are from = Toronto, or any other organ with plexi-glas shades, but Gabriel Kney has retired and = still lives here in London, Ont. I believe he has now taken up his hobby in retirement, that being photography, and I think he does it as a business.   Sincerely, Dave C. London, Ont.      
(back) Subject: Re: Organist opening -- Baltimore, MD area (fwd) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 23:33:43 EDT   In a message dated 5/1/00 10:53:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jlindhol@bcpl.net writes:   << Salary is negotiable. >>   Hmmmm... usually means they're too embarrassed to publish it! ;-)   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Fw: Trade Secrets From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 22:47:10 -0500   What about all those books I see for sale from Europe on organ-building = from Organ Literature Foundation? Published in German, Dutch, French, etc.   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, May 01, 2000 5:08 PM Subject: Trade Secrets     > There's also another element present ... threads have raged about it = from time > to time: most pipe-organ-builders guard their "secrets" as jealously as the > electronics people, so there isn't the body of literature about = pipe-organ > building that there should be. The stuff manages to get passed down, but we > still need a more comprehensive apprenticeship program AND some real = "care and > feeding" books. > > Audsley is FUN, nevertheless (grin). > > Cheers, > > Bud > > Bob Scarborough wrote: > > > At 11:02 AM 5/1/2000 PDT, you wrote: > > >>-- I'd strongly >suggest > > >>that you seek out copies of the Audsley "The Art of Organ-Building" > > > > > >I've read Audsley cover to cover several times -- it has the smell of > > >obsolete and old-fashioned dogmatism. I've also read Dictionary of Pipe > > >Organ Stops several times cover to cover, found it to contain as much > > >pipemaking myth and poetry as any real science.<snip> > > > > As revered as Audsley's works are, they show that Audsley himself = didn't > > have a clue as to how flue pipes really work. The same can be said of > > Irwin, who skirts most technical issues. The first, to my = recollection, to > > publish a work that showed how flues really work was Ernest Skinner, = in > > 1917, in "The Modern Organ". Up to that time, there were as many theories > > as their were builders and wags, most of them somehow believing that = the > > "windsheet" would flop back and forth between the interior and = exterior > > surfaces of the lip. Skinner proved this to be false, showing that = the > > wind stays at all times outside of the pipe cavity. > > > > For a gizmo that's been around since Greek times, there sure is a paucity > > of pure science as to its operation! The electronic interloper, however, > > is based on volumes of research and development; however, most of that has > > been jealously guarded as "trade secrets". Strange, eh what! > > > > DeserTBoB > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: Dust proofing...was .question..xx posted.. From: "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net> Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:40:38 -0400   Sadly the more carefully you wrap up an organ the likelier it is to be damaged by clods. Been there- cleaned up the mess :-((   I had one organ where the nice folks in the church covered all the pipes with heavy old drapes. Kept the dust out but not the size 16's and 2x4's mixtures- reeds -diapasons everything bent every which way.   Then there was the guys who set the organ on fire with their oxy-acet. torches. . . That was simple to repair. . . The 30' 12" steel "I beam " that was bolted onto the swell shutters presented a slightly bigger = problem.   Why won't people call the organ servicemen in first???!!!!!   Nelson Denton R. A. Denton & Son Pipe Organ Builders Hamilton Ontario Canada   > In the case that I am very familiar with, it was relatively simple to > enclose the chamber opening with plastic and to seal it thoroughly, yet > considerable dust found its way into the chamber and a cleaning of the > organ was necessary. It seems very difficult to achieve a dust proof = seal. > > HD      
(back) Subject: Re: Excellent flue pipe air flow videos. From: "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net> Date: Tue, 2 May 2000 00:45:09 -0400   Great pics Dave. Keep posting and asking questions. Some of us might even learn something :-))   Darn my German is gettin' kinda rusty. I gotta go watch some old reruns = of Combat. +(;+0))   Nelson Denton R. A. Denton & Son Pipe Organ Builders Hamilton Ontario Canada   From: "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com> Subject: Excellent flue pipe air flow videos.     > Soory guys one more post: > initial flow: > http://member.aol.com/ReinerJank/em-ani2.htm > > steady state in a closed pipe. > http://member.aol.com/ReinerJank/klgd-ani.htm > > steady state in an open pipe. > http://member.aol.com/ReinerJank/em-ani.htm > > I found these fascinating. > > Dave