PipeChat Digest #1382 - Tuesday, May 9, 2000
 
Re: why I don't quit
  by <CHERCAPA@aol.com>
Re: why I don't quit
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: An out of town wedding!(slightly off-topic)
  by "Peder" <peder@carg.com>
Re: why I don't quit
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Tom Hazleton Plays Rochester Reminder (cross-posted)
  by "Ken Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
PLEASE READ  Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com>
Roman Catholic church music (X-posted)
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Mediocrity not uni-denominational!
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
St. Pat's Kilgen (back on-topic ... grin!)
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
St. Patrick's Cathedral and the "Old Kilgen"
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Roman Catholic church music (X-posted)
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
the mighty Kilgen of St pats
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
RE: St. Patrick's Cathedral and the "Old Kilgen"
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Kilgen relays and actions
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Kilgen relays and actions
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: why I don't quit From: <CHERCAPA@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 09:07:20 EDT   Dear Bud, I would be curious as to your assessment of O'Connor since you = seem determined to conform to only music discussion on the list. Used this = message as I forgot your e mail address and deleted your refusals to discuss . LOLPlease e mail me as to O'Connor privately at drusus5845@aol.com. = Thanks, Paul  
(back) Subject: Re: why I don't quit From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:17:34 -0500   >Dear Bud, I would be curious as to your assessment of O'Connor since you = seem >determined to conform to only music discussion on the list. Used this = message >as I forgot your e mail address and deleted your refusals to discuss . >LOLPlease e mail me as to O'Connor privately at drusus5845@aol.com. = Thanks, >Paul   After some of the discussions about religion where various people have really gotten upset and where we have had flame wars, I applaud Bud's decision to keep this off the list. And I urge everyone else to do the same. End of Topic as far as the list goes.   Happy PipeChatting   David   **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org 850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: Re: An out of town wedding!(slightly off-topic) From: "Peder" <peder@carg.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 08:47:30 -0500   Because we're in the industry as well and aren't granted the same protections and liberties that married heterosexual organists and = musicians are is why. I'd like to be able to pass on my benefits to my significant other if I had the "right" to... -----Original Message----- From: Ray Ahrens <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tuesday, May 09, 2000 12:52 AM Subject: Re: An out of town wedding!(slightly off-topic)     >Is this really necessary? What does this have to do with the pipe organ? > > >>From: "Sam Vause" <vause@home.com> >>Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >>To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >>Subject: Re: An out of town wedding!(slightly off-topic) >>Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 18:52:59 -0700 >> >>Amen! And I daresay there's plenty of organists who would agree! >>--sam >>Sam Vause (Chandler, AZ) >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Peder" <peder@carg.com> >>To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >>Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 2:00 PM >>Subject: Re: An out of town wedding!(slightly off-topic) >> >> >>It's unfortunate that it wouldn't apply to Domestic Partners though.... >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> >>To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >>Date: Monday, May 08, 2000 3:45 PM >>Subject: Re: An out of town wedding!(slightly off-topic) >> >>My understanding is that weddings here in US ARE valid in other >>countries, and vice versa. They would need to contact the municipal >>clerk in the town in which they are to be married to arrange for the ... >> >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: why I don't quit From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:54:24 -0400   > From: CHERCAPA@aol.com > Subject: Re: why I don't quit > > Dear Bud, I would be curious as to your assessment of O'Connor since you = seem > determined to conform to only music discussion on the list. Used this = message > as I forgot your e mail address and deleted your refusals to discuss . > LOLPlease e mail me as to O'Connor privately at drusus5845@aol.com. = Thanks, > Paul > Paul:   I've asked Bud to include me in on this. I sent him one assessment that I got this morning from a church musician, which is I think permissible = within the guidelines, so I share it with you, et list, as follows:   Did you get a chance to watch the spectacle that passed for a funeral for = JJ Rock O'Connor? Yuck! What garish sounds! I caught the Eucharistic = prayer. Beautiful old chants sung (quite poorly but nevertheless reverently) by = the clergy answered by Marty Haugen's "Mass of Creation" including--get this--choir descants accompanied by amplified harp so loud it drowned out the brass choir! Before I am accused of being only interested in the aesthetics, the theology was horrifying. The commentator from the church saying that JJ O'Connor was a sinner just like everyone else becuase "I'm sure he told a joke that didn't go over or something like that every once = in a while." I found it a horrifying display of all that is ugly in R Catholicism. An article in the Times today [i.e., yesterday] said the sermon would praise God and not be about O'Connor. Right.   Alan Freed        
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 10:28:48 EDT   I will say one thing "organ" related.... I thought most of the music was deplorable! 5 days to prepare, the death of a Cardinal of one of THE most =   prominent Catholic cathedrals in the country and what do we get? A cheesy =   Celtic Alleluia, an over used and innapropriate Ave Maria for communion, = and Eagles Wings !!! Not to mention - apart from the recessionla hymn "Lift high the Cross" and the improvisation before the Alleluia - I felt that = the organ playing was rather uninspired and blah.   (of topic) - I noticed that the American Bishops continue to make the RC church look like fools when after the reading of the gospel half of them = sat down before the book had been kissed by the Vatican Emmisary - then 20 or = so stood back up - sat back down. UGH What a bunch of clowns the protestants =   must be saying!   All the Best,   The Maitre       > >Yes, you SHOULD!!! >       ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Tom Hazleton Plays Rochester Reminder (cross-posted) From: "Ken Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 11:35:57 -0400   The Rochester Theater Organ Society welcomes Tom Hazleton who will perform the 1999/2000 concert season finale at 8 p.m. on Saturday, May 13th. Tom Hazleton needs no introduction to theater organ buffs. He is one of the leading concert artists in the world. Tom will perform on the RTOS 4/22 Wurlitzer in the Auditorium Center, 875 East Main Street, Rochester, NY 14605.   Tickets are only $10 each (RTOS members admission is free) at the box office which opens one hour before the concert. Tom's biography, driving directions, general RTOS information, the Wurlitzer stoplists and pictures of the installation are on the RTOS home on the web at http://theatreorgans.com/rochestr/ . We hope to see you here for an = evening of great musical enjoyment.   Regards, Ken Evans, RTOS President      
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 08:58:57   At 10:28 AM 5/9/2000 EDT, you wrote: >I will say one thing "organ" related.... I thought most of the music was >deplorable! 5 days <schnip> - I felt that the >organ playing was rather uninspired and blah.<snip>   It's Catholic...what did you expect???   >(of topic) - I noticed that the American Bishops continue to make the RC >church look like fools <schnip> UGH What a bunch of clowns the = protestants >must be saying!<snip>   Scroll up...same applies.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:31:56 EDT   In a message dated 5/9/00 12:00:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << At 10:28 AM 5/9/2000 EDT, you wrote: >I will say one thing "organ" related.... I thought most of the music was =   >deplorable! 5 days <schnip> - I felt that the >organ playing was rather uninspired and blah.<snip> It's Catholic...what did you expect??? >(of topic) - I noticed that the American Bishops continue to make the RC =   >church look like fools <schnip> UGH What a bunch of clowns the = protestants >must be saying!<snip> Scroll up...same applies. >>   Now wait just a minute, I take exception to that! There ARE Roman = Catholic Parishes out here, MANY of them- that ARE doing VERY good music and who = have in their employ VERY FINE musicians.   True many parishes jumped on the folk choir/guitar/glory and praise bandwagons in the 60's and 70's but there are signs of churches where traditional repertoire and "more traditional" Liturgy are emerging, in = many cases these things never diminished.   I must say that I too was amazed (or very surprised) at some of the repertoire selections chosen for the Cardinal's funeral, especially in = such a visible and well known venue that has the resources, personnel and opportunity to do nothing but the very best all around. Stanley Cox, the associate organist at St. Patrick's is a personal friend of mine and I = know from having been there numerous times and from speaking with him privately =   that St. Pat's goes all out to present a dignified, well planned and solid =   musical program all around. They even have very stringent standards regarding repertoire (organ and choral) within the cathedral that will be = met and that are strictly maintained. However- perhaps the Cardinal's family = and closest staff requested certain things or he himself did before he got so ill. I will say that we here will not begrudge a family their requests especially at a funeral or memorial mass (yes including "my favorite"- "On =   Eagles' Wings" which I ill certainly do without fail if requested.)   We sing the Celtic Alleluia here on most Sundays of ordinary time and alternate the other seasons of the year when an alleluia for the gospel acclamation is appropriate, and I make NO apologies whatsoever. It is popular and well known and something everyone can join in and sing. The Parish Choir and Schola sing Gregorian introits and verses on feast days = and holy days and when/where appropriate- all directly out of Missale Romanum. = We sing Latin motets and anthems (where appropriate) and do very = traditional "high" repertoire while blending more contemporary yet solid repertoire.   We do not sing "renewal" or contemporary, folksy hymns here. We hold = vespers regularly and morning prayer in traditional formats with traditional chant =   and other forms of music, etc etc etc. I do not have to sell or convince regarding this program. These are just examples.   My new assistant is training the Treble Choir(s) in the full RSCM = tradition and methods and they too are singing only the finest repertoire. So, yes- = we are a National Shrine but we are also a parish church and we do very fine music programming here. In addition to a semi-professional choir and professional Schola we also have the Folk Choir which does the Saturday = 6:30 pm mass and the Life Teen Band (very contemporary) which does the Sunday 6 = pm mass. Both do exceptionally fine jobs. All choir members whether they be =   adult or children are auditioned before admittance to a choir is granted. =   Overall we do maintain a certain "standard" of good music throughout = without throwing our principals out the window or "taking the easy way out" by = doing only one kind of music or easier, warm-fuzzy-feel good music.   While there are parishes out there in the Archdiocese of Detroit and throughout the country (and the world) which may not have full time music staff, there ARE musicians out there doing VERY good things to enhance and =   enrich Liturgical celebrations. There are many, many varied styles and tastes in music and there are certainly enough parishes, Catholic and otherwise, to spread and nurture those styles and varieties in music, just = as there are makers and styles of automobiles, clothes, foods, hairstyles, houses etc.   I can only really answer for this parish since they look to the music = staff here for their musical fulfillment, but the statements above really do = cast a bad shadow, and not on the Roman Church but rather on the individual who = made them. I think it is totally unnecessary and rather childish to make a = blanket statement such as "It's Catholic- what did you expect?"   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 11:02:09   At 01:31 PM 5/9/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Now wait just a minute, I take exception to that! There ARE Roman = Catholic >Parishes out here, MANY of them- that ARE doing VERY good music and who = have >in their employ VERY FINE musicians.<snip>   True, true, and the National Shrine is a sterling exception to the rule. However, in RCLand, quality music programs are the exception, NOT the = rule. This has been true all through the 20th century, long before the pRaZe/gee-tar/mariachi blight came to pass.   Not "childish" at all...statement of fact.   DeserTBoB recovering catholic  
(back) Subject: PLEASE READ Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 13:51:58 -0500   A bit earlier today I posted a note saying that I applauded Bud's not wanting to discuss his feelings about Cardinal O'Connor on the list. And I said that I hoped that everyone else would do the same.   I have no problem with the discussion of the music that was done at the funeral BUT please let us not let our feelings about the RC church get the better of us to the point that we make snide remarks about the church or its musical policies. And this goes for all denominations - there are people that have been "burnt" by various church over the years but please don't take that out on the list..   Since the time of my earlier posting there has been mail sent to the Administration address along with a phone call from my Co-Owner about some of the postings that have appeared. That I don't like at all. Please let all of us be civil and respect each other's beliefs in what we say in regard to this discussion.   Happy PipeChatting   David **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org 850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 11:55:29 PDT     > >If anyone wants to discuss the Cardinal, please e-mail me privately. = I'm > >not going to say what I have to say in open chat, though I probably > >SHOULD.   Me either, this time Dave G will keep his big mouth closed.   DG     ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Roman Catholic church music (X-posted) From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 12:09:33 -0700   In the past, I have been quick to criticize the influence of Irish-American clergy on the (low) standards prevalent in American Roman Catholic church music, even prior to Vatican II. But in the back of my mind, there was always the question of WHY this was so.   I read an article recently that pointed out that the Irish church (from the time of the English conquest) was a persecuted church. Mass was conducted "on the fly", often in secret, and always with the threat of reprisals from the "Sassenatch". Aside from the monasteries (if indeed many of THEM survived), there was no QUESTION of erecting musical establishments, organs, etc.   After three centuries, EVERYBODY (clergy AND faithful) was so accustomed to that way of doing things, that they didn't know HOW to take advantage of religious freedom when they got to America. There WAS no liturgical or musical tradition to draw upon ... of course, the Irish dislike of all things German didn't help (grin) ... the German-Americans had some notable musical establishments, notably the string of parishes across the upper midwest that were founded by German Benedictine missionaries from St. Meinrad's Abbey. But for various historical reasons, the Irish-Americans weren't ABOUT to look at THAT as a model.   My first RC parish had Irish clergy ... Gregorian Chant was FORBIDDEN by the Monsignor. But, looking deeper, he had grown up in an era in Ireland where it wasn't SAFE to sing the Chant ... it took too long, and the risk of being discovered was too great. So the thirty-minute Sunday Mass hadn't come about out of irreverence; it had come about out of a real concern for the safety of the congregation. And habits so deeply ingrained were impossible to break.   Puts the whole business in something of a different light ...   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Mediocrity not uni-denominational! From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 12:26:07   At 11:55 AM 5/9/2000 PDT, you wrote: >Me either, this time Dave G will keep his big mouth closed.<snip>   Well, I didn't, and I'm sorry to needle any Catholics out there. The reality is that there are plenty of churches in tranditionally musically advanced denominations that are also way "behind the curve" on music programs. There's plenty of mediocrity to go around for everyone, for certain! However, as I've said, there are pillars of greatness, such as Scott Fop's National Shrine, that provide examples of what to strive to attain. Surmounting local politics and fund raising to provide such programs is the key, it seems, although some denominations 'lend a hand' = to local churches more than others!   Speaking of St. Pat's, someone mentioned it being still "the old Kilgen". I seem to remember awhile back a discussion of this organ being pretty = much completely rebuilt to the point that there's not too much Kilgen left in = it anywhere anymore. Anyone have any more specific info?   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: St. Pat's Kilgen (back on-topic ... grin!) From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 12:34:31 -0700   The rebuild was covered extensively in either the Diapason or the Tracker awhile back ... some tidbits that I remember:   Pietro Yon designed the organ, and specified Italian-style mixtures and = reeds, which weren't terribly successful, from contemporary reports. After all, Italian organs were "choir organs" right up through most of the 19th = century, and weren't EXPECTED to FILL vast spaces like St. Pat's.   Over the years, the organ had gone through typical attempts to "update" = (read "Baroque-i-fy") it ... I think most of the reeds and some of the mixtures = had been replaced, and the originals discarded, but the replacements were very = much NOT in the Kilgen style.   What I DON'T remember is how much of this the rebuild was able to reverse, and/or bring into line with the best of Kilgen's tonal practices.   Scott F. has probably followed all this a lot more closely, since his = organ is a sister to St. Pat's.   Cheers,   Bud        
(back) Subject: St. Patrick's Cathedral and the "Old Kilgen" From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:40:58 EDT   In a message dated 5/9/00 3:27:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << Speaking of St. Pat's, someone mentioned it being still "the old = Kilgen". I seem to remember awhile back a discussion of this organ being pretty = much completely rebuilt to the point that there's not too much Kilgen left in = it anywhere anymore. Anyone have any more specific info? >>   Speaking as one who has first hand knowledge of Kilgens, old and = otherwise, St. Patrick's does have many of the original Kilgen ranks and windchests = from the 1929 installation. I do not, however, think that it it fair to call = it "a pure and original Kilgen organ" anymore due to extensive renovations, additions and alterations, even as early as 1940 and by Yon while still = there and even again when Courboin went there. But, on the other hand- it IS a Kilgen too.   I know two individuals personally that worked on the organ in the 70's and =   80's, Mel Robinson and Robert Miloche. The recent renovation/restoration = was carried out by the Peragallo Organ Company of Paterson, NJ and two new = twin consoles were built (and solis state) by Robert Turner of California. = There was also much reregulation and some shifting or ranks, from what I = understand and have seen first hand when playing there. However- in light of all the =   changes through the years- the St. Pat's organ still roars forth down that =   reverberant nave triumphantly and provides a spectacular instrument to = lead worship and for recital use- it is truly a first class organ capable of = just about every possible nuance an organist could ever want or need. It is = one of a kind and yes- IS a Kilgen.   We call the Kilgen here at the National Shrine "original" because every single rank is in its original division and configuration, all pipes are (miraculously) present since installation in the 30's and the organ still sits and plays in the same configuration it was installed in. We have = been solid stated too- the Kilgen relays and switch stacks were totally = inoperable and dead and parts could not be gotten to repair them. No alteration of = the tonal spec has been done here and with the recent tonal restoration by = Brant Duddy and Clark Wilson the Henry Vincent Willis "sound" is once again = present in all its silvery and robust glory.   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Re: Roman Catholic church music (X-posted) From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:45:51 -0400 (EDT)   Bud, I've heard that before about the Irish. But what a shame, because the Irish love to sing.   Neil    
(back) Subject: the mighty Kilgen of St pats From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:53:07 -0400 (EDT)   Well, I'm still proud that the Kilgen took center stage for much of the funeral of the Cardinal. It was good publicity for our instrument.   Neil    
(back) Subject: RE: St. Patrick's Cathedral and the "Old Kilgen" From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 15:04:59 -0500   Scott:   I will be at St. Louis Cathedral tomoorw evening and the following evening assisting Simon Nieminski as he records there. How does the current state of that Kilgen compare to yours?   Peter    
(back) Subject: Kilgen relays and actions From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 13:07:09   At 03:40 PM 5/9/2000 EDT, Scott Fop wrote: >the Kilgen relays and switch stacks were totally inoperable >and dead and parts could not be gotten to repair them.<snip>   This has seemed to ba a Kilgen "trademark" from their earliest days of EP action. Although Kilgen chests seem as hardy as any of their era, their relays and tripper combo actions seemed to be clumsily slow at best, completely dead most other times. I'm afeared many a tonally-promising Kilgen has been scrapped strictly due to electropneumatic problems than anything else. One thing I remember about the ones I've played was that their action seemed interminably slow and laggardly, almost like bad TP action. However, Scott has said he has no such problems at the National Shrine. Sloppy installation was a Kilgen hallmark on lesser installations in their heyday. Could that have been causitive, due to, say, poor static winding?   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: Kilgen relays and actions From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:33:53 EDT   In a message dated 5/9/00 4:16:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << This has seemed to ba a Kilgen "trademark" from their earliest days of = EP action. Although Kilgen chests seem as hardy as any of their era, their relays and tripper combo actions seemed to be clumsily slow at best, completely dead most other times.   I have heard this about some of the "stock" or "assembly line" = instruments. but there were many many bigger Kilgens that got special attention and top =   notch components and installations.     I'm afeared many a tonally-promising Kilgen has been scrapped strictly due to electropneumatic problems than anything else.   This too is lamentably true. I have seen it too many times- especially = with the Kilgens. I still maintain (personally) that Kilgen was to the Roman Church what EM Skinner was to the Episcopal Church in America. The sad = thing is that Skinner seemed, somehow, to get "the edge" over Kilgen and practically all of the others as well.   The Kilgen family members (Alfred, Eugene, Charles and others from the company AND Henry VIncent Willis, who tonally regulated the Shrine's organ =   upon installation) always said that this organ had the prettiest tone of = all the big Kilgens. I think this might be due to a combination of the specifications, the chamber layout and the fact that the four main = chambers speak through deep galleries which act as a mixing chamber BEFORE the = sound gets out into the main rotunda of the church.     One thing I remember about the ones I've played was that their action seemed interminably slow and laggardly, almost like bad TP action.   Yes- this is a trademark too of their relay systems, especially in the = larger organs.     However, Scott has said he has no such problems at the National Shrine.   Well- when the original electro-mechanical relays were still working, = playing the main pipework from the antiphonal console (a city block away) was dreadfully slow. It was the classic case of "play the tune and then get = up and walk out into the middle of Woodward Avenue and it will begin to come back to your ears........"     Sloppy installation was a Kilgen hallmark on lesser installations in their heyday. Could that have been causitive, due to, say, poor = static winding?   Or funding. You has little suburban St. ABC's Parish who was struggling to heat the building and needed an organ of some sort = and then you had St. Patrick's or the St. Louis (MO) Cathedral or Fr. = Coughlin's Shrine in Royal Oak where money was no object and those organs could have much special attention and detail lavished on them. By the way- for those =   who maintain that Coughlin was such a noted anti-semite, the Shrine's = organ was paid for by a Jewish banker and his wife who were close friends of Fr. =   Coughlin's. ($51,000.00 in 1933!)   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI