PipeChat Digest #1383 - Wednesday, May 10, 2000
 
Re: Deplorable church music
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Marilyn Keiser recital at West Point, NY May 14 (X-post)
  by "Pat Maimone" <patmai@juno.com>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Ed Brown" <edbroorg@webtv.net>
Re: Marilyn Keiser recital at West Point, NY May 14 (X-post)
  by "Ed Brown" <edbroorg@webtv.net>
Re: Deplorable church music
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com>
Here a shrine, there a shrine, everywhere a shrine shrine
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Shrine confused?
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Choices
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral Music
  by <ManderUSA@aol.com>
What exactly WAS wrong with the funeral?
  by <Pepehomer@aol.com>
An earnest plea to the helpful Malcolm
  by <CdyVanpool@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Deplorable church music From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 17:39:59 EDT   In a message dated 5/9/00 5:33:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Innkawgneeto@webtv.net writes:   << Fortunately, my pastor understands what I'm attempting to do and = allows me to maintain a high standard (we don't always hit it, but we aim for it). >>   When I auditioned and was a finalist for the position here at Shrine, the expectations and desires of the Pastor and the selection committee were = made manifestly clear in the hiring process and interviews:   1) a return to TRADITIONAL music that SOUNDS Roman Catholic, IS Roman Catholic and SUPPORTS Roman Catholic Liturgy   2) REAL choral repertoire to be sung by a choir capable of doing so   3) use of the PIPE ORGAN as the principal instrument for worship   4) a "premier music program" that would befit the church's pending status = as a National Shrine (this was April of 1998- the National Shrine designation =   came in September of that same year)   5) the completion of the pipe organ restoration   6) the formation of a music/concert/recital series   7) the augmentation of the Parish Choir with professional section leaders =   and soloists   etc etc etc.   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination, National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Marilyn Keiser recital at West Point, NY May 14 (X-post) From: "Pat Maimone" <patmai@juno.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 19:33:30 -0400   USMA Class of 1936 Distinguished Organists Recital Series and The Frederick C. Mayer Memorial Fund   present   MARILYN KEISER   The Cadet Chapel United States Military Academy West Point, New York   May 14, 2000 3:30 P.M.   Fanfare Alec Wyton (b. 1921)   Concerto in F Major, Opus 4, No. 5 G. F. Handel Larghetto (1685-1759) Allegro Alla siciliana Presto   From Windows of Comfort Dan Locklair Trinity=92s Shield (b. 1949) =93=85and call her blessed.=94 =93=85beside the still waters=94 (Chaconne) Alpha and Omega   Flourish for an Occasion William Henry Harris (1883-1973)   Rhapsody, Opus 17 No. 1 Herbert Howells (1892-1983)   Two Hymn-tune Preludes Mark Jones Ah, holy Jesus (b.1957) My faith looks up to Thee   From Pieces de Fantaisie, Opus 54 Louis Vierne Impromptu (1870-1937) Carillon de Westminster   This information comes from my colleague Craig Williams, new Organist-Choirmaster, USMA.   Hope to see some list members at the Cadet Chapel on Mother's Day.   Pat Maimone           ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.  
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:44:06 EDT   Hear Hear Bob !!! Indeed the National Shrine in DC is an exeptional = example of what to do and how to do it!   I have been to about 5 masses at St. Pats (3 weekend and 2 weekday) and = have not heard anything impressive. Slap two verses of a hymn here slap two = more hear, choir or visiting musical group sings something here. There is more =   to being a Catholic Musician my friends than just putting some ol' music = any ol' place. There are theological considerations (which is why Ave Maria does not belong at communion) and the dignity of the mass (which is why I don't use the Celtic Alleluia or The Mass of Creation both with thier sing-songy lad dee da melodies.) And what about the musican being = pastoral (shepherdly) by guiding the flock - suggesting appropriate musical selections and not just letting em' have what ever they want.   In departure for the evening: A bishop I once new was having an arguement with a priest I worked for because the priest always had the Malotte (sp) Lord's Prayer sung for the Our Father. The bishop (being wise and knowing =   that this is grande opera and a solo work not congregational music) said = we will not have it during my mass. The priest retorted, "but Bishop, they = like it so much and sing it so well." To which the bishop responded," they like =   sex and do that well but you don't give them that do you ?!?" Score = Bishop 1 Priest 0 and the Malotte never made it's face there again.   All the best,   The Maitre   >True, true, and the National Shrine is a sterling exception to the rule. >However, in RCLand, quality music programs are the exception, NOT the = rule. > This has been true all through the 20th century, long before the >pRaZe/gee-tar/mariachi blight came to pass. > >Not "childish" at all...statement of fact. topics   >   ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:46:31 EDT   In a message dated 5/9/00 8:45:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_maitre@hotmail.com writes:   << Hear Hear Bob !!! Indeed the National Shrine in DC is an exeptional example of what to do and how to do it! >>   Uh- I am at the National Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, = Michigan- a suburb of Detroit.   Scott Foppiano  
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 20:56:11 EDT   Yes Scott I know. The Shrine in DC is everything I said and more. Music there is wonderful!!!! I am sure that music at The Shrine in Michigan is superb to. I however have never been to Michigan so I did not comment on a =   music program I am unfamiliar with. From the post you made concerning you =   final days before you were hired it does indeed seem like you are a very lucky musican to have a church and Pastor which desire top notch = standards. While your music program is most certainly wonderful - I do agree with Bob =   in saying that it is NOT the norm. I to am employed by the Holy Roman Church and too strive for musical excellance. However out of over 140 parishes in the diocese I think 3 of us are stiving for the same. Sad but true.   All the Best   The Maitre     > ><< Hear Hear Bob !!! Indeed the National Shrine in DC is an exeptional >example > of what to do and how to do it! >> > >Uh- I am at the National Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, >Michigan- >a suburb of Detroit. > >Scott Foppiano > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >   ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Ed Brown" <edbroorg@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 20:57:11 -0400 (EDT)   Other than the Bach Prelude and Fugue in E flat and the hymn Lift high the cross, the music from this great Cathedral was disappointing     Ed Brown    
(back) Subject: Re: Marilyn Keiser recital at West Point, NY May 14 (X-post) From: "Ed Brown" <edbroorg@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 21:02:47 -0400 (EDT)   Can outsiders attend the recital at the chapel (non military people) Ed    
(back) Subject: Re: Deplorable church music From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 18:33:03   At 05:39 PM 5/9/2000 EDT, you wrote: >When I auditioned and was a finalist for the position here at Shrine, the =   >expectations and desires of the Pastor and the selection committee were = made >manifestly clear in the hiring process and interviews:<schnippo al fine>   Wow! I dunno about anyone else, but I'M impressed! That's a tall order = in any church, let alone RC, and stands as truly high benchmark to aim for = for any denomination. Too bad there aren't more like the Shrine....   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 09:40:47 -0400   At 08:44 PM 5/9/00 EDT, Erik Johnson wrote: >the priest always had the Malotte (sp) >Lord's Prayer sung for the Our Father. The bishop (being wise and = knowing >that this is grande opera   Erik:   I believe this piece started life as an theatre organ solo and then = someone added words. Of course, I may be wrong, but that's what I've been tellin' scores of people for a thousand years.   Grand Opera? Close to grand ol' opry! But, non-the-less, still a fan fave!   Yours,   Darryl by the Sea    
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:59:04 -0700 (PDT)     --- Ed Brown <edbroorg@webtv.net> wrote: > Other than the Bach Prelude and Fugue in E flat > and the hymn Lift high > the cross, the music from this great Cathedral > was disappointing > > Unfortunately, in Bartlesville, we didn't catch the funeral. I for one, however, am just happy that the ol' Kilgen was working. They had problems with it recently, and for a short while it was not usable.... (I go tthat information directly from St. Pat's).   Now.... the forbidden portions of the thread continue. Why continue crabbing about the "bad" music? Why not contact the cathedral musicians and ask why they did what was done? Don't they deserve the same amount of respect that any persons on this list would expect - especially when under the limelight?   Stephen Ohmer Bartlesville, OK   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 18:59:04 -0700 (PDT)     --- Ed Brown <edbroorg@webtv.net> wrote: > Other than the Bach Prelude and Fugue in E flat > and the hymn Lift high > the cross, the music from this great Cathedral > was disappointing > > Unfortunately, in Bartlesville, we didn't catch the funeral. I for one, however, am just happy that the ol' Kilgen was working. They had problems with it recently, and for a short while it was not usable.... (I go tthat information directly from St. Pat's).   Now.... the forbidden portions of the thread continue. Why continue crabbing about the "bad" music? Why not contact the cathedral musicians and ask why they did what was done? Don't they deserve the same amount of respect that any persons on this list would expect - especially when under the limelight?   Stephen Ohmer Bartlesville, OK   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Here a shrine, there a shrine, everywhere a shrine shrine From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 18:45:40   At 08:46 PM 5/9/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Uh- I am at the National Shrine of the Little Flower in Royal Oak, = Michigan- >a suburb of Detroit.<snip>   Wellp...jus' goes ta show ya! Some folks seen one National Shrine, they seen 'em all!   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 18:53:04   At 08:56 PM 5/9/2000 EDT, you wrote: >Yes Scott I know. The Shrine in DC is everything I said and more.<snip>   What of the Spellman M=F6ller there? Any additions/changes there recently? I heared Marliyn Mason there in recital once, and found the instrument to be distinctly M=F6ller, but nonetheless impressive. I heard a lot of tonal linkage to the St. George's M=F6ller in NY, although I never heard the "part= y horns".   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral (X-posted) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 22:38:42 EDT   In a message dated 5/9/00 1:33:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = ScottFop@aol.com writes:   > True many parishes jumped on the folk choir/guitar/glory and praise > bandwagons in the 60's and 70's but there are signs of churches where > traditional repertoire and "more traditional" Liturgy are emerging, in many > cases these things never diminished.   What really blows my mind, while giving me a ray of hope, are seminaries = and monasteries that are getting fine new organs. For a real eyeball knocker-outer, go to Lynn Dobson's webpage (easily found by searching Lynn =   Dobson Organ Builder) and take a gander at the new instrument for St. Benedict's Abbey in Louisiana. I used to visit the Abbey when I lived in =   Covington La, and it is one spectacular and beautiful place.   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Shrine confused? From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:19:21 -0400 (EDT)   Scott's work is of course a classic example of quality music ministry, at his Shrine. But, I think the poster was making a freudian reference to the National Shrine Basillica (if that's the name) in Washington: another classic example of wonderful music done wonderfully, tastefully, and spiritually.   Their budget must be unbelievably generous.   Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: Cardinal O'Connor's Choices From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:21:05 -0400 (EDT)   Folks, the choice of music lay squarely with the Cardinal himself, according to the news media covering the ceremony. I would say that's true of at least the bulk of the material used.   Neil    
(back) Subject: Cardinal O'Connor's Funeral Music From: <ManderUSA@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:36:46 EDT   In a message dated 5/9/00 10:00:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, knopfregal@yahoo.com writes:   << Why not contact the cathedral musicians and ask why they did what was done? >>   There was a piece in The Times today, talking about a nun whose job for = some time has been organizing the liturgy for events like the Cardinal's = funeral. Mention is made of the fact that the Cardinal, in the days before his = death, chose some of the music that would be sung at the Mass. I presume this = meant music familiar to the congregation and visitors, to be sung by all. The = whole idea that the entire assembly can participate by singing heartily appeals = to me a great deal - I think it does the sort of job that a great, almost = state, occasion needs to do - comforting, supporting, that sort of thing. The = fact that I, personally, would be best served in those ways by hearing = wonderfully sung ancient chant, and music from the Golden Age of Polyphony, perhaps by =   Giovanni Pierluigi himself, is surely irrelevant, except at my own = funeral, by which time, I can safely be branded elitist without it hurting my = feelings!   Malcolm (still sweltering in CT) Wechsler www.mander-organs.com        
(back) Subject: What exactly WAS wrong with the funeral? From: <Pepehomer@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 23:50:10 EDT   I didn't get to see all of the Cardinal's funeral, but I did see the beginning. What I don't understand is that all of a sudden we've deemed = the music as ludicrous for a funeral. I personally saw nothing wrong with it. = I didn't think a funeral was intended to be a recital. Actually, the topic = is almost sounding "Lutheran" in style - the "I could have done it better" approach. (I can say this - I'm Lutheran!) And I'm not sure if it was said yet, but the organist was a Southern Baptist (as was said repeatedly on the Fox News broadcast)   Justin Karch Organist, Holy Trinity LCMS Rome, GA  
(back) Subject: An earnest plea to the helpful Malcolm From: <CdyVanpool@aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 01:04:44 EDT   In a message dated 5/8/00 12:44:58 EDT ManderUSA@aol.com writes: <>   My dear Mr. Wechsler:   Will you deign to pardon the intrusion if I interrupt your august personage yet once more to pen my humble thanks for the magnanimous = benefit of your erudition? Yet I must protest, Sir, that the honor is too great. = I stagger under the obligation. Therefore, I beg of you, kind Sir, with all =   humility and reverence, and in that collegial spirit which binds musicians = in every quarter of the globe, in future to check your eleemosynary impulses = and nevermore trouble such an elevated soul as yours over the elementary inquiries of such a sublunary person as myself. Indeed, I apprehend that = the magnitude of your learning is so great that I fear the world cannot long contain such eminence. In vision, I foresee that apotheosis which is due = to such a one as you, see you wafted unto the far peak of Olympus itself, = where without doubt the lyre will fall from the hand of Great Apollo himself at = the first murmurations of your lips. Away, Sir! Detain yourself no longer = here among mortals who can never approach that sublime epitome of knowledge = which your noble soul alone possesses, and let us be content with the far-off coruscations of your glory. I most earnestly pray that your translation = from this sphere of ignorance may happen soon, so deserving are you of another place. Pray begone, Sir, for this poor world cannot bear to look upon = your brilliance unveiled. It is simply too much for flesh to bear. I have the honor to remain, Sir, Yours in all cordiality,   Van Vanpool