PipeChat Digest #1390 - Saturday, May 13, 2000
 
Re: We don't realize a whole LOTTA things!
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Polka Mass Re: Church Music
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Polka Mass Re: Church Music
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Polka Mass Re: Church Music
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Bad news
  by "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net>
RC question
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: RC question
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: RC question
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: We don't realize a whole LOTTA things! From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 11:25:56   At 09:34 AM 5/12/2000 +0100, you wrote: >Yet the curious thing is, there seems not to have been one single >instance, where we have been able to point to a tonal improvement and >say - "there! that's the improvement we gain from all the research we >carried out into tone production".<snip>   As with all things artistic, science itself doesn't dictate what is or isn't an "improvement" in tonal production. Many believe that the elusive tone of the Schulze diapason is probably the ideal principal tone. Yet, = no one has been able to exactly copy its silvery, agreeable tone that blends so well, even after careful evaluation of its tonal output and mechanics. So, there's more going on in there than what scientific research has been able to explain to date.   >I suppose it's different for makers of digital instruments, who *are* >improving all the time, although there will come the point where they >too reach their limit, and have to acknowledge that there is a point >in the individual characteristic of each and every organ pipe, which >is simply a non-reproducible function of nature, and has variables >which cannot successfully be scientifically evaluated.<snip>   Anything, eventually, can be explained via the scientific method...unless the researchers don't understand what they're looking for! Digital instruments are catching up in that they are increasingly able to mimic = the "imperfect" nature of pipe tone to a degree. However, when competing with all the different point sources of tone in an organ, the acoustical interaction of all that pipework in a comparitively tight space, and the tonal singleness of each, individual pipe, digital organs, improved as = they are, have a long way to go to provide the granduer of the pipe organ. Remember, a lot of what passes as a good copy depends on the listener's perception and education! Remember in 1936, people were fooled into thinking a Hammond sounded like a Skinner! Of course, as time progressed and the ears of the average listener were exposed to the tonewheeled beast more and more, it became much easier to identify the poseur! The same thing happened after WW II, when the floor of electronics entered the scene. At first, people were beguild by the ability of the Allen and others to sound "just like pipes"! Time past, people's ears became more educated, and again, the poseur was easily identified. At the time of the Hammond/FTC trial, no one had ever heard of an organ that could produce an auditorium-full of tone without pipes. The very concept was foreign. Thus, if an instrument could indeed fill the space with sustained tones, = it must be a pipe organ, right? Wrong, as we found out in short order.   I'm quite sure that we'll come down the road of time another 20 or 30 = years or so, look back, and go "gawd, those digital things from 2000 sure = sounded bad!", as newer, improved technology makes the current seem simplistic. = As for scientific improvement of tone, you might remember we already went through such a period about 100 years ago, when misguided but enthusiastic fellows such as Hope-Jones got their fingers into tonal matters. Hope-Jones theorized that soft, cloying solo voiced could be "carried" = down a large acoustic with the addition of a harmonic-free stop, the Tibia Clausa. Of course, we now realize that this "revolution in organ = building" was a wrong turn which led to many honking, groaning beasts on high pressure, but it did take the philosophy of the "orchestral organ" to its absolute logical extreme under the auspices of Rudolph Wurlitzer and Co. = as the theater organ. One could argue successfully that a whole new instrument was then created, which still has its fans today.   It was up to G. Donald Harrison, in this country, to remind us that many = of the tonal traditions of the organ, as they had been formulated over centuries or trial and error, were indeed valid, and gave the instrument its own, majestic character. While some argue that the "American = eclectic" organ is too much of a compromise, others can state that it is a culmination of centuries of work that had gone in many different = directions before arriving where it did in 1930. Since that time, we've had the neo-Baroque excesses of the '60s and '70s, completely eschewing the Romantic and orchestral developments of the 19th century, a return to age-old tracker actions in some quarters, and a knee-jerk against the neo-Baroquism in the championing of the orchestral organ once again, replete with legions of unison tone of non-blending character! Did any other these changes occur due to scientific research or logical thought? Not at all...all were artistic judgements, right or wrong!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Polka Mass Re: Church Music From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:43:45 EDT   In a message dated 5/12/00 1:16:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = lmelby@prtel.com writes:   << Have any of you heard of a POLKA Mass, or was someone pulling my chain? >>   Oh yes. They do them at least once annually at St. James in Ferndale = which is three miles south of the National Shrine. (Shall I go home and break = out my accordion???)   Scott Foppiano  
(back) Subject: Re: Polka Mass Re: Church Music From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 15:40:15 -0500   Scott F. on his accordian?? Can I hear 'She's Too Fat For Me" polka, or "Tick-Tock" polka? Puleeeezz?   Rick        
(back) Subject: Re: Polka Mass Re: Church Music From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 14:34:30   At 03:43 PM 5/12/2000 EDT, you wrote: >(Shall I go home and break out >my accordion???)<snip>   Uh........no.   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: Bad news From: "ldpatte@attglobal.net" <ldpatte@attglobal.net> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:47:06 -0400   Dear Vicki,   Our prayers will indeed go out for you; for healing and for that "peace = that passes all understanding" that our Lord promised us.   God Bless you.   Dave C. London, Ont.      
(back) Subject: RC question From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 22:47:38 -0500   Listers-   Thirty long years ago when I was in the army, I played some funerals and Special Services music. We had Hammond C3s on base.   What effect, if any, has Vatican II on the RC Church in the military? Is = the church +ACI-controlled+ACI- by the Pentagon....or by Rome?   Thanks, Rick   ps- While in Panama CZ, I did some work on a 2 manual Estey in a church = down there, and made several trips over to the Panama Hilton to enjoy the stylings of Leroy Lewis at the Wurli 3/27 in El Bombard Lounge.        
(back) Subject: Re: RC question From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 20:57:29 -0700   The Cardinal Archbishop of New York is the Vicar for the Armed Forces; but = the military priests are pretty much a law unto themselves. They say Vatican = II Mass (most badly); few places have a music program;   even the Chapel at West Point has been taken over by CCM (that's the big Protestant chapel ... I'm not sure what's happening at the Catholic = chapel).   Most of the bases around San Diego HAVE replacing their Hammonds with = Allens or Rodgers.   Part of the problem is that the chaplains are reassigned every three = years; it's the luck of the draw, like the Methodists.   Cheers,   Bud   VEAGUE wrote:   > Listers- > > Thirty long years ago when I was in the army, I played some funerals and > Special Services music. We had Hammond C3s on base. > > What effect, if any, has Vatican II on the RC Church in the military? Is = the > church +ACI-controlled+ACI- by the Pentagon....or by Rome? > > Thanks, Rick > > ps- While in Panama CZ, I did some work on a 2 manual Estey in a church = down > there, and made several trips over to the Panama Hilton to enjoy the > stylings of Leroy Lewis at the Wurli 3/27 in El Bombard Lounge. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: RC question From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 12 May 2000 23:11:29   At 10:47 PM 5/12/2000 -0500, you wrote: >Thirty long years ago when I was in the army, I played some funerals and >Special Services music. We had Hammond C3s on base.<snip>   Most bases had a lot of C-2G's..the MIL-spec console. Essentially, it was a C-2 with a small 12 watt onboard power amp and monitor speaker on board, which the commercial models didn't have. It also had rather robust, MIL-type carrying handles on each side. After about '55, I think, they just started buying C-3s by the boxcar load. Some base chapels had RT-3s, but not very many.   I played the organ at the March AFB chapel for a spell in the late '60s. The new chapel was refreshingly designed, and had a rather sumptuous new Allen TC-series 3 manual, custom for that installation. The Arnold = Heights chapel, off base, was a monument to Korean War military achitecture from 1951, replete with sheet metal doors, and had the architypical Hammond = C2-G with an external HR-40 added on. The place, along with the crackerbox houses of matching styling, simply reeked of early SAC.   As to who "controls" the church's military arm, I'm sure it's the same as always. The chaplain general runs the show as sorta a Catholic = "franchise".   >and made several trips over to the Panama Hilton to enjoy the >stylings of Leroy Lewis at the Wurli 3/27 in El Bombard Lounge.<snip>   An interesting, if the the most interesting, Wurlie outside of the = country! I've always been curious as to how it sounded....   dB