PipeChat Digest #1392 - Sunday, May 14, 2000
 
Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster Cathedral
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster C athedral
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Death Ray explained
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Re: Deathray....
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Interesting item on eBay web site item#332223665: Moller Pipe Organ
  by <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959 Wicks 3 manual,16 
  by <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster Cathedral
  by "John Dale" <32foot@posaune.screaming.net>
Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster Cathedral
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959 Wicks 3 manual
  by "Bill Morton" <wjm@pacbell.net>
Re: Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster Cathedral
  by "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Double Languid Diapasons (x post)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959 Wicks3  manual
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959  Wicks 3 manua
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
RE: Bad news
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: The 4 organs of the M=B8nster Cathedral
  by "Arno Schuh" <arno.schuh@in-trier.de>
Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959 Wicks 3	 manua
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Sources for Parts?
  by "Bob Kinner" <rkinner@one.net>
Re: Sources for Parts?
  by <Tspiggle@aol.com>
Re: Sources for Parts?
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Sources for Parts?
  by <Tspiggle@aol.com>
New DE action from the desert??
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Sources for Parts?
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster Cathedral From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Sat, 13 May 2000 08:24:53 -0500   The choir organ, and the large organ in the transept are by Rieger. I have forgotten who did the others. There is a beautiful article in ISO Information on these organs. Roy Redman   Carlo Pietroniro wrote:   > Good Morning everyone, > > I'm looking for some information regarding the 4 organs of the M=FCnste= r > Cathedral in Freiburg, Germany. Can anyone help? > > 1) The Marien Organ (tracker action); what company? > 2) The Choir Organ; what company? > 3) The Nave Organ (swallow's nest); what company? > 4) The Gallery Organ (St. Michael's); what company? > > any help will be appreciated. > > Carlo > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster C athedral From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:11:07 EDT   I believe Munster means cathedral, so it's the Freiburg Cathedral not the Freiburg Cathedral Cathedral.   At any rate, from Barbara Owen's wonderful "E. Power Biggs, Concert = Organist": "In the Freiburg cathedral there is a Marcussen organ high on the north = wall of the nave in a Gothic "swallow's nest" position. Located almost exactly between two Rieger organs (in the choir and at the left of the crossing) = and a Spaeth organ in the west end gallery . . . . While all four organs have =   their own consoles, they may also be played simultaneously from a central console, but Biggs discovered that the critical [Marcussen] organ could = only be played from the bottom manual of the central console, which also controlled one of the front organs."   In addition to being fascinating reading, Ms. Owen's book is a valuable resource reference.    
(back) Subject: Death Ray explained From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 09:01:50 -0500   On 5/14/00 Bruce wrote, "OK I'll bite I missed it the frist time ... WHAT'S THE DEATHRAY????" Sorry for the confusion, If you look up the web site below you will get a list to go to. Click on "organs of Gainesville" then go to "Holy Trinity Episcopal" Scroll to "Pedaalwerk (left case)" There you will find "Death Ray" The story was that a visiting organist was told to be sure to use the new stop in the pedal "death ray" and, as luck would have it, at the same moment that the organist turned on the stop a tool box fell off a ladder in the next room, which was quite startling to say the least. It would have been fun to be there. Luther < http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502/AmericanGuildofOrganistsGainesville >      
(back) Subject: Re: Deathray.... From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:20:27 -0500   Besides the Deathray stop, I was fascinated to see that you have a tracker organ but a pitman rector.   John.  
(back) Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332223665: Moller Pipe Organ From: <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 Pacific Daylight Time     Just listed on eBay, home to some of the world's weirdest deals, is this = 2m/3r M=F6ller, not an "Artiste", from the looks of it. Only $6000! Buy two and save! Add to your Hammond to provide "ambience"!   The pic doesn't come up, since eBay can't refer to an html page as a = picture object, so you'll have to manually go over to the AOHell page that = it's on.   DeserTBoB   Title of item: Moller Pipe Organ Seller: tombrit@aol.com Starts: May-13-00 22:48:34 PDT Ends: May-23-00 22:48:34 PDT Price: Starts at $6,000.00 To bid on the item, go = to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D332223665     Item Description: Two manual, 3 rank Moller Pipe organ. Playing flawlessly just prior to = dismantling. 85 pipe Flute, 85 pipe String and 73 pipe Diapason ranks. = Silent blower, and solid state rectifier. Tremulant. One main pipe chest, = two offset chests and 4 regulation chests. 10 expression shades, matching = facade and console. Swell and crescendo shoes. 4 settable pistons. 22 = stops. 32 note pedal board.   Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community = athttp://www.ebay.com  
(back) Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959 Wicks 3 manual,16 Rank Pipe Organ From: <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 Pacific Daylight Time     Again on eBay comes THIS jewel! Check out that CONSOLE! Holy MOLEY!   Remember...if it CLICKS and TICKS, it must be WICKS!   hehehehhehehehe!   Title of item: 1959 Wicks 3 manual,16 Rank Pipe Organ Seller: alindoo@prodigy.net Starts: May-13-00 19:27:59 PDT Ends: May-23-00 19:27:59 PDT Price: Starts at $9,999.00 To bid on the item, go = to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D332082830     Item Description: Theatre or Classical. Over 1200 pipes, full toy counter, full set brass = chimes, swell shades, orchestra bells, vibra harp, snare drums, symbol = triangle, direct electronic action. Now playing in a home near Chicago, = Illinois. Many couplers, ect. Moving crates included with sale of organ. = Buyer to arrange for crating and shipping.   Originally built for broadcasting at Oral Roberts University.               Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community = athttp://www.ebay.com  
(back) Subject: Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster Cathedral From: "John Dale" <32foot@posaune.screaming.net> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:08:59 +0100   If my memory serves me correctly, Freiburg Dom has a magnificent = Silbermann resplendent upon the west gallery. This is an awesome instrument. About = ten years ago I remember listening to Herr Wagner play for half an hour. I = still remember that sound. (I'm sure it was Freiburg . . . ) John Dale JohnDale@Breathemail.net    
(back) Subject: Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster Cathedral From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:27:08   At 08:08 PM 5/14/2000 +0100, you wrote: >(I'm sure it was Freiburg . . . )<snip>   ....not, of course, to be cornfused with Stan Frieberg, of "They're Coming To Take Me Away, Ha ha!" and "Herman Horn on Hi-Fi" fame..   dB  
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959 Wicks 3 manual,16 Rank Pipe Organ From: "Bill Morton" <wjm@pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:36:11 -0700   At , you wrote:   >Again on eBay comes THIS jewel! Check out that CONSOLE! Holy MOLEY!     Isn't this just about the ugliest console you've ever seen? ! ! ! Looks like something I'd nail together to use in my garage!    
(back) Subject: Re: Re: The 4 organs of the M=FCnster Cathedral From: "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:47:49 -0400 (EDT)   Excerpts from mail: 14-May-100 =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_The_4_or.. by "John Dale"@posaune.scre > If my memory serves me correctly, Freiburg Dom has a magnificent = Silbermann > resplendent upon the west gallery. Aren't there two Freiburgs in Germany, both with Doms/Munsters/Cathedrals? The one with the four organs is at Freiburg im Breisgau (south Germany). I have the E. Pluribus Biggs LP of JSB Toccatas/Fugues, in the SQ quadraphonic format. At that time (1974) the west end organ, aka "St. Michael", was seemingly a romantic instrument, divided either side of the window. The other Freiburg is in Saxony, nicht? Perhaps that's the one with the Silbermann. Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Double Languid Diapasons (x post) From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:53:15 EDT   Does anyone know of double languid diapasons besides those in Wanamakers, Atlantic City and the Church of the Assumption in Ansonia, CT = (Midmer-Losh)? Does Balboa Park have one?   Thanks-   Scott Foppiano National Shrine of the Little Flower  
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959 Wicks3 manual,16 Rank Pipe Organ From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:55:44 -0700   Ah, but it was tres moderne in the '50s ... I've seen similar consoles on Wicks CHURCH organs (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Bill Morton wrote:   > At , you wrote: > > >Again on eBay comes THIS jewel! Check out that CONSOLE! Holy MOLEY! > > Isn't this just about the ugliest console you've ever seen? ! ! ! = Looks > like something I'd nail together to use in my garage! > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959 Wicks 3 manual,16 Rank Pipe Organ From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:50:12   At 12:36 PM 5/14/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Isn't this just about the ugliest console you've ever seen? ! ! ! Looks =   >like something I'd nail together to use in my garage!<snip>   It came out of Oral Roberts University...'nuff said there! No WONDER = those happy-clappies hate organs! Phew!   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: RE: Bad news From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:13:30 -0500   Same story in my household, except we began the ordeal in 1992. My first wife was not so fortunate and died of complication of breast cancer in = 1981. Advances in treatment are heartening, to say the least.   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: John Vanderlee [mailto:jovanderlee@vassar.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2000 11:14 AM To: PipeChat Subject: Re: Bad news     >At 06:32 PM 5/10/2000 EDT, you wrote: >>I received some news this week that has me reeling. I had a "routine" >>lumptectomy last week, and was just told that I have breast cancer and will >>need more surgery followed by chemo and radiation therapies.<snip>   My wife (and indirectly all of us) went through the same in 1994. We did not waste any time getting into follow up treatments; she started chemo = and radiation right away, kept a positive outlook, continued work (music teacher in elementary school,organist) all the way through and is strict = in adhering to her doctor's advice. Here we are 6 1/2 yrs later - knock on wood - and everything is fine.   We'll pray and God Bless,   John V       "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: The 4 organs of the M=B8nster Cathedral From: "Arno Schuh" <arno.schuh@in-trier.de> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:48:00 +0200   From: "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2000 9:47 PM > The other Freiburg is in Saxony, nicht? Perhaps that's the one with > the Silbermann. That's Freiberg.   Greetings   Arno        
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#332082830: 1959 Wicks 3 manual,16 Rank Pipe Organ From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:26:12 -0500   desertbob@rglobal.net wrote: > > Again on eBay comes THIS jewel! Check out that CONSOLE! Holy MOLEY! > http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D332082830   What you have there is a Wicks "Eyeline" console. It is what you might call an example of Jetsons design techniques applied to the organ. The idea (apart from supposedly looking "stylish" 1950's style) was that the console was very low and could easily be seen over. The drawback was that at the outer extremities the stops are totally impossible to see even with one's peripheral vision. The "Eyeline" console was available in both stoptab and drawknob varities. One should probably be preserved as a warning to future generations.   John Speller St. Louis, Mo.  
(back) Subject: Sources for Parts? From: "Bob Kinner" <rkinner@one.net> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 19:42:27 -0400   Dear List, I have several EP unit chests that I want to convert to electric action for our church. Who do you recommend as a supplier of quality organ parts? I'll need about 500 pallet valves (like Reisner 601's), so it's a decent-sized order. I've heard mixed stories about some of the names in the business. What has your experience been? Surely someone is selling parts to all of the organ hobbyists and ATOS chapters around. (You can reply to me personally if you'd prefer not to be posted on the list.) Thanks, Bob -- Bob Kinner AA8FH rkinner@one.net "If at first you don't succeed, switch to power tools." Red Green      
(back) Subject: Re: Sources for Parts? From: <Tspiggle@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:37:35 EDT   Bob:   Why would you want to do this? E-P action is generally faster than direct electric and gives a nicer attack and release sound. Why don't you just restore the action that's there? You really need to think about this = before you do it.   Tom  
(back) Subject: Re: Sources for Parts? From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 09:10:51 +0800   Is EP faster than DE? Why should it be? The organ I play has DE trebles = and EP basses and I'm hanged if I would say the basses are faster then the = trebles. Rather the other way round. Actually the action seems instantaneous on the = DE trebles - no notieable delay at all. Bob E.   Tspiggle@aol.com wrote:   > Bob: > > Why would you want to do this? E-P action is generally faster than = direct > electric and gives a nicer attack and release sound. Why don't you just > restore the action that's there? You really need to think about this = before > you do it. > > Tom > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:19:15 -0700   Conventional wisdom says that the direct electric magnets have to do = heavier lifting ... therefore the valves open slower ... dividing the load up = between the magnets and the pneumatics is supposed to speed things up ... thus runs conventional wisdom.   I've talked to a couple of builders who are using direct electric action = applied to slider chests ... they say they've solved the bouncing and popping so characteristic of old Wicks organs. If so, then certainly direct electric = is more DURABLE than electro-pneumatic, as long as it fires as fast and the valves = don't bounce. But then, thinking about it, I suppose slider chest pallet valves = wouldn't bounce in the first place (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Bob Elms wrote:   > Is EP faster than DE? Why should it be? The organ I play has DE trebles = and EP > basses and I'm hanged if I would say the basses are faster then the = trebles. > Rather the other way round. Actually the action seems instantaneous on = the DE > trebles - no notieable delay at all. > Bob E. > > Tspiggle@aol.com wrote: > > > Bob: > > > > Why would you want to do this? E-P action is generally faster than = direct > > electric and gives a nicer attack and release sound. Why don't you = just > > restore the action that's there? You really need to think about this = before > > you do it. > > > > Tom > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------- > Click here for Free Video!! > http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:25:50 EDT   Even the fastest EP action cannot come close to the speed of DE action on light to moderate wind. I speak as someone who has worked on hundreds of organs all over the country. I have built DE and EP actions of my own = design and have done exhaustive testing. This speed was the cause of the problem with early DE actions. Bouncing. This was found not to be of a purely mechanical nature but was caused mostly by relay sparking. The valve could =   respond to the short spark caused by back EMF and the relay switch. Gress Miles eliminated this problem by building lost motion into their valves. Wicks also built a lost motion valve but seems to have abandoned it fairly =   quickly. This problem was eliminated once and for all by solid state = relays. The problems with speech in DE action are usually found in cheap or ill conceived work or in conversions that are not done correctly. I have done several conversions and have taken great pains to ensure that they are = done correctly. I have also restored EP organs that I could have converted but decided that because the action was quick and responsive it should be retained intact ( double primaries ). All actions have their pros and cons = ( although I can't think of many pros for tubular ) and DE action is = reaching a very high state of refinement with todays quality builders. Unfortunately = it has gotten a bad rap from poorly made organs.   Alan B  
(back) Subject: Re: Sources for Parts? From: <Tspiggle@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:35:06 EDT   Bob:   The speed of the action really depends on the wind pressure. Most organs = with EP action are higher wind pressure. With EP action, the wind pressure = assists the opening of the valve so that the higher the pressure gets the faster = EP action works. The Wurlitzer action, which works on 10" and higher = pressure, is "lightning" fast. Conversley, with electric action the valves have to = work against the wind. The higher the pressure, the slower they work. Also, the =   higher the pressure, the more electricity that is needed to open the = electric valve, and excessive sparking and burnt contacts can result. Electric = valves work OK on very low pressure.   I've have in my home for the past 25 years a Moller with EP action but = with another rank added on a direct electric chest. On my organ the EP is = faster and also quiter. There's no way I'd convert the Moller to electric action.   As regards your organ, treble valves generally work faster because they = are smaller.   Tom  
(back) Subject: New DE action from the desert?? From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:07:31   At 09:10 AM 5/15/2000 +0800, you wrote: >Actually the action seems instantaneous on the DE >trebles - no notieable delay at all.<snip>   Quite right. DE action has, since Wicks started making it standard eons ago, gotten a quite hefty knee-jerk reaction along with some well-deserved knocks. Certainly, many earlier DE examples earned Wicks the non-official motto of "If it clicks and ticks, it MUST be WICKS!". More modern designs make this no longer the case. DE valves are available from a variaty of sources, all of which are quite improved from 50 years ago.   I've been experimenting with a new design of DE valve that uses current only for a small "pilot pallet" in the basses, the action of which creates a momentary partial vacuum upon application of current, and an inrush of chest wind thus rushes in to fill the parital vacuum. The elasticity of air being what it is, and the velocity of the air being what it is in this setting, causes an instantaneous pressure rise in a small annular chamber around the circumerence of the valve spool, thus providing the main force for the actual unseating of the pallet to be done by the wind itself, not the current. Once unseated, the valve pallet is held in released position by current in the pilot pallet's coil, and stays there until the field of same collapses. Modern lightweight structual and sealing materials should provide an easy 100 year half-life, as well as quiet operation free of metallic "clicking" and "clunking". I am currently checking patent clearances.   My rationale for considering improved DE actions is that the pipe organ, since the dawn of the Industrial Revolution, has been a curious laggard in terms of technological improvement in non-tonal areas. Certainly, refined TP and early successful EP actions were marvels of their day, when use of electrical power was in its infancy, and the trend towards heavy wind made any sort of DE action impossible, what with materials, as well as switching and magnetic technoligies being what they were in those days. However, the said Industrial Revolution, two World Wars, and the "space race" have provided us with materials, industrial processes and techniques of motion and pneumatic control that leave even the most modern EP chest looking like a museum of long-forgotten science. About the only advance in chest action was indeed DE, and the first examples left much to be desired. Devices used for years in manufacturing and processing plants that control various fluids and gasses have been developed over the last 100 years that should have been directly applicable to pipe organ wind control, but somehow this transference of technology didn't happen. Certainly, the "modern" pitman chest has shown relative strengths, but poor longevity, mainly due to the perishiblity of pneumatic leather. Sufficient time has passed now so that we definately know that the best of electronic organs from builders such as Allen can last at least as long, and sometimes longer, than a pitman chest can before it needs costly, labor-intensive releathering.   A complete throwing over of all that has been developed thus far is now favored in some quarters, such as the going back to leaky, finnicky slider chests, which do eliminate the tons of pneumatic leather consumed by short-lived EP chests, but present problems and restrictions of their own. This has been accompanied by a knee-jerk return to the obsolete and costly tracker action, as well as readoption of ancient winding schemes, bringing back what builders strove so hard to eliminate for hundreds of years...unsteady, unreliable wind! Some folks think this is somehow more "musical"; I opine that it is simply a reactionary counterassault against the electronic, more specifically the digital, poseur which now holds sway, whose tone approximates an organ of the steadiest and most carefully regulated wind.   The inspiration of such a design as has been discussed comes from industrial pneumatic solenoids and controls I've worked with over the years. Such a design would yield substantial savings in current demand, would be relatively self-cleaning, be inherently quiet, due mainly to pneumatic cushioning, should be successful under as high as 20" of wind, and should be as fast as a Wurlitzer EP chest...fast indeed, but probably not as fast as some current designs that use the magnetic force of the coil to do the work of unseating the pallet. Current conservation over past and present designs would be substantial, the quantification of which remains to be seen. A lot of silliness about DE action causing bad pipe speech, from what I've been able to ascertain, anyway, is just that...silliness, when pertaining to more modern, high quality designs. Certainly, early DE designs had problems of intonation, repeat firing or "bouncing", sticking, poor current supply causing late notes, and the famous "Wix-Clix". The cost savings provided by DE also made them an unfortunate choice in "bargain basement" organs of dubious origins, the overall failure of which would be wrongly directed at the use of DE, rather than the overall poor quality of the instrument as a whole.   Just as silly to me is the oft-recited saw that tracker action gives you such wide "control" over intonation on any size organ. Hogwash. What usually passes for "tracker intonation" is actually a lessening and slowing of tactile force on the part of the player, amplified by subtle elasticity and "give" in the tracker mechanism, all of which results in *late* intonation due to late opening of the pallet bar, more than anything else. Granted, a very *limited* range of intonation change is possible with good tracker action in some instances. If you want that kind of wide control over intonation, stick to a 3 rank portative on a wheezy single inch of wind, a harmonium, or buy an old Bawld-One console!! I've devised a methodology of testing, using various electronic test gear, that will prove my conclusions about "tracker intonation", but...it will wait for a more opportune time! One dragon to slay at a time....   DeserTBoB   =A92000, Robert V. Scarborough. All rights to above reserved.  
(back) Subject: Re: Sources for Parts? From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:19:10 EDT   This is because the DE valves pull more current and therefore require a relay. 25 years ago you used an electro mechanical relay that slows things =   down. Solid state relays don't. Good DE valves on up to 5" of pressure are =   still faster than any EP action on any pressure, with a repitition rate = that exceeds human capabilities. This is even faster than tracker action = because they don't have to overcome the ineteria of moving parts. Peterson ( or someone ) even makes a delay circuit to their relays so that in a mixed system the EP chests can 'catch up' to the DE chests.   Alan B