PipeChat Digest #1406 - Friday, May 19, 2000
 
Re: Franck on meantone, Buxtehude on E.M. Skinner, etc. etc. etc.
  by "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk>
Re: The 4 organs of the Minster Cathedral
  by "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk>
Re: A=3D440
  by "Paul Opel" <popel@sover.net>
Great Recital Idea- a little ranting and raving
  by "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu>
Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Wedding Woes
  by <Steskinner@aol.com>
Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs...
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs...
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Great Recital Idea- a little ranting and raving
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: The 2 many meanings of Minster Cathedral
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: The 4 organs of the Minster Cathedral
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs...
  by "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #1403 - 05/18/00
  by "Bruce Behnke" <behnke@lvcm.com>
Re: Franck on meantone, Buxtehude on E.M. Skinner, etc. etc. etc.
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Great Recital Idea- a little ranting and raving
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs...
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs...
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Bach and Equal Temperament
  by "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com>
pitch (X-posted)
  by <Quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: pitch
  by "Edward Marsh" <edmarsh@lineone.net>
Re: Death to Equal Temperament Society
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Franck on meantone, Buxtehude on E.M. Skinner, etc. etc. etc. From: "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:54:54 +0100     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cremona502@cs.com> > > However, the best organs are being built in the United States. > Sorry.... should read many of the best....   Oi ! you lookin' fer a fight? Come over 'ere an' say that.   <<GG>> Chris Baker    
(back) Subject: Re: The 4 organs of the Minster Cathedral From: "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:49:11 +0100     ----- Original Message ----- From: Stanley E Yoder Subject: Re: The 4 organs of the Minster Cathedral     > > > I believe Munster means cathedral > > > Not sure about the continental meaning of Munster, but a book on the > British cathedrals which I have has this glossary entry for "Minster": > > "misleading term originally meaning a monastic church, later applied to > any collegiate church. York and Beverly are both correctly referred to > as Minsters, but by usage only." > York is a cathedral, Beverly is not (although once a pro-cathedral.) > > At least one other Brit church comes to mind that is known as a Minster: > Southwell. Of course, Westminster has the word integral. There are > probably others. Seems to me I've heard Lincoln sometimes referred to as > a minster. Anglophiles, over to you.   I doubt you'll get much of use from us Anglos. There doesn't seem to be any practical purpose in the distinction. Some minsters are cathedrals, some aren't. Some cathedrals are minsters, and most of the old foundation cathedrals probably are, whilst I doubt many of the new foundation cathedrals are minsters. Strictly, any church containing a bishop's throne (Kathedra, [Greek] ) is a cathedral. Some were built for that purpose, some were 'converted' from large parish churches, many of which by strict definition may have been minsters........ or may not have been...... simple really <<G>>   I suppose we should not get into the word 'Abbey' here, though England's third senior cathedral is so called. I expect the proper name for it should really be Westminster Minster, on account of it being an old monastic foundation..............................and so on, and so on.   Chris. (p.s., I'm a bit surprised that your quoted author described the term 'minster' as "misleading". Archaic it may be, but I doubt the word is ever used to 'mislead').      
(back) Subject: Re: A=3D440 From: "Paul Opel" <popel@sover.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 06:32:11 -0400   Well, the change has been happening for a long time. Flutes at 440 are a special order item from most makers; 442 and 444 are the standard pitches, and this has been true for at least 15 years. I believe the same is true = of tuned percussions.   Once again, organs are being left behind as the pitch of other instruments creeps up around us. This is an entirely different question from say, harpsichords, many of which are built with transposing keyboards to play = at nominal 440 or a half-step down at 415, or even a whole step to French Baroque 392. The early music world has pretty much standardized at 415 for Baroque/Renaissance instruments, but many Classical/Early Romantic reproductions are built at 425! Paul Opel   >I think it would be extremely unlikely that there would be any further = change   >Bob E.   http://www.sover.net/~popel      
(back) Subject: Great Recital Idea- a little ranting and raving From: "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 07:27:39 -0400     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cremona502@cs.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 1:07 AM Subject: Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs...   > I don't think I'm being narrow minded. I would like to see organs of various > styles in churches, schools, etc., representing various classic and national > styles, which includes American classic/equal temperament. > > You folks are proposing that everying by the utilitarian, eclectic, > American-classic/equal tempered variety. To me, THAT is narrow-minded.   However, you also propose that only music of that particular period be played on that instrument. Oh, wait, I'm doing a Franck Chorale. Let me = just pull out my handy-dandy five-manual Cavaille-Coll complete replica with = the most kick@$$ swell pedal on the face of the earth. I live in a 3-room apartment, I'm sure the landlord wouldn't mind if I just hoisted it = through the ceilings and floors.   This is rediculous.   Hey, I have a great idea for my recital next year. We'll start off in my church in Syracuse with the Bach because it is a boroque-era type instrument. Next we'll drive to Montreal so you can hear Franck on a Casavant. And THEN, we can come back down to Phoenix, NY to hear some Byrd on that lovely little Johnson they have down there. And then I'll re-tune the whole thing in meantone! It's not THAT hard!   Bruce, I think you're the only one who would come to this recital.   >> ---William Braid White, Mus.D., "Piano Tuning and Allied Arts", 5th = Ed., >> 15th printing, Tuners Supply, Boston, 1972, pg. 243 > >With all due respect to William Braid, he is wrong!   What is the title of your book, and when did you publish it? Is this information in there? If so, could I see your bibliography as well?   I have had the chance to play works of such composers as Bach, Sweelinck, Soler (alright, alright, it was a trasncription!), Franck, etc, on period, or period-replica instruments. Great! Fantastic! It was wonderful! But I = do not have the resources to SHIP one of each instrument here to Syracuse. = (God knows I barely have the money to stay in my apartment!) I have a Holtkamp. = I have two Kerner and Merchants, a Casavant, a Delaware (with no swell = pedal), a Roosevelt/Schantz thing, two Johnsons, and a Moller. These are my resources. Yes, maybe I should have gone to Oberlin (even though the = tuition was $30,000 and they only gave me $16K) where I could have run amuck on campus to play whatever I wanted on any period I wanted. But I -didn't- = and I -can't-. That's just not the way it works.   If you're so adament, Bruce, why don't -you- ship them all here. We could all come to your house and have a HUGE party. You could charge admission! = I know how to make these little finger sandwiches....;)   I don't see Dr. Pardee or Dr. Marks complaining about the lack of period instruments. We get along with the Holtkamp just fine. As for comparing it with a pedal piano.....I'm not even going to dignify that remark with a response. You never actually said whether you've heard/seen it or not, and since you haven't answered, I would suspect that you have not.   A very wise person said:   >Yes, it would be nice if we could have it our own way...but we ain't >playing at " Burger King "......<G>   And if we were, I would have liked fries with that.   Please pardon me if I've offended anyone. I mean no disrespect to anyone. = I appear to have become a cynical youth.   Final thoughts (no, really!)   And the Lord said "This thread hath gone on longeth enougheth. And I shall smite it, and it will lie twitching on the floor, for all the list to = see." And it was good.   IV-I (plagual cadence)    
(back) Subject: Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 06:31:27 -0500   The firm I work for (Quimby Pipe Organs) uses slider chests with electro-pneumatic pallets. We prefer these to slider chests with direct electric pulldowns because we find that direct electric pulldowns give poor note repetition, especially in the bass. It is not so much how rapidly they work when the note is played the first time -- both are pretty instantaneous, but how rapidly it is possible to repeat a note once one has played it the first time.   John Speller  
(back) Subject: Re: Wedding Woes From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:36:58 EDT   I used to play for many weddings in the LA area. Those at Lake Ave Congregational Church in Pasadena (4/125 Casavant, 3/19 Schantz) ALWAYS started with the wedding hostess "sweep" to clear the church for the musicians an hour before the ceremony, which started on time. Other weddings, particularly ethnic ones at Grace Brethren in Long Beach (3/31 Moller, 2/5 Moller), started 1/2 to 1 hour (yes, that's correct) after the =   announced time. I eventually figured out that the time for the wedding = was intended as a time to start thinking about getting ready to come to church---and this was for the bride! I initially was miffed that my time = was valued so little, but then I came to realize that this was an all-day = event for the wedding party, and my time was not valued at all! We don't have many weddings at my present church, but those we do start on =   time--assuming the videographer is all set up.   Steven Skinner First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA  
(back) Subject: Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs... From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:49:26 +0800   Well Bruce that is extremely limiting. You have to actually visit an = organ to be able to appreciate it. Do you travel the world often? Been to OZ? There's = a very nice Verscheren here in my city, and the only Pease organs still extant. = Monk? Kirkland? Fincham? J. E. Dodd, Rieger, Forster and Andrews? Sorry. I = enjoy my CDs and I can hear visit organs from all over the world without moving from = this chair! Come on Bruce! You can't be as narrow as that! Bob E.   Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > In a message dated 5/18/00 8:44:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes: > > > Bruce, conisder this; I could send you a recording of, say, six = organs, one > > of > > which is electronic, and if you picked correctly which one was a = "toaster" > > as > > you call them, > > I would say that you were fortunate enough to have fluked the 1 in 6 > chance > > of > > getting it right anyway! Whatever you may think of "them" they are = now very > > good indeed! > > Not to offend.... but please keep your recordings. Regardless of the > initial source, they are all reproduced electronically, digitally, = whatever. > I don't even like to listen to CDs for this reason, although I do > occasionally. This kind of comparison proves nothing important. >    
(back) Subject: Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs... From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 20:51:14 +0800   Bruce, your logic (or lack of same) escapes me! I'm hanged if I can see = what you do like. B.E.   Cremona502@cs.com wrote:   > Rebekah Ingram wrote: > > > Bruce said:> growth among organists. Being narrow minded is so > > unproductive. > > > > ???!!! Am I missing something here?! I thought -you- were the one = being > > narrow-minded! Somebody, pull me outta the water here, I'm -really- > > confused.... > > I don't think I'm being narrow minded. I would like to see organs of = various > styles in churches, schools, etc., representing various classic and = national > styles, which includes American classic/equal temperament. > > You folks are proposing that everying by the utilitarian, eclectic, > American-classic/equal tempered variety. To me, THAT is narrow-minded. > > Bruce > . . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles > Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com > http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502 > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: Great Recital Idea- a little ranting and raving From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 21:05:16 +0800   Rbekah, whatever you do DON'T play anything that has a G# in it!! Yuck! B. E.   Rebekah Ingram wrote: .. And then I'll re-tune the whole thing in meantone! It's not THAT hard!   > > Bruce, I think you're the only one who would come to this recital. > > > > A very wise person said: > > >playing at " Burger King "......<G> > And the Lord said "This thread hath gone on longeth enougheth. And I = shall > smite it, and it will lie twitching on the floor, for all the list to = see." > And it was good. >   And I'd say AMEN to that!! B.E.    
(back) Subject: Re: The 2 many meanings of Minster Cathedral From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:51:13 -0400   > From: Stanley E Yoder <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> > Subject: Re: The 4 organs of the Minster Cathedral >=20 > glossary entry for "Minster": >=20 > "misleading term originally meaning a monastic church, later applied to > any collegiate church. York and Beverly are both correctly referred to > as Minsters, but by usage only." (Johnson, British Cathedrals, London, > 1980, ISBN 0-688-03672-4.) >=20 > York is a cathedral, Beverly is not (although once a pro-cathedral.) >=20 > At least one other Brit church comes to mind that is known as a Minster: > Southwell. Of course, Westminster has the word integral. There are > probably others. Seems to me I've heard Lincoln sometimes referred to as > a minster. Anglophiles, over to you.   Two quick side items. (1) Someone's eye was caught by the term "misleading"; I interpreted it differently: the term is misleading because it's so often misused; it's not the the user's INTENT is to "mislead." I thought. (2) The whopper Lutheran church at Ulm is usually called a M=FCnster, but often the tourist guides call it "cathedral" as well. Michelin: "CATHEDRAL (M=DCNSTER)". I suspect that it was once a M=FCnster, bu= t doubt that it ever was a cathedral.   I think the Johnson distinction is close; on the Continent, I think that a M=FCnster is attached to a "Stift" or foundation, typically a monastery. But it muddies as you go north; for in Norway "stift" means "diocese"--and then you're into the cathedra association again.        
(back) Subject: Re: The 4 organs of the Minster Cathedral From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:36:34 EDT   Assuming you were referring to Westminster Abbey, it is not a cathedral = but rather a royal peculiar. Westminster Cathedral is the RC Cathedral in = London. The Anglican cathedrals are St. Paul's and Southwark.   I hope I have this all correct -- it's Friday after all.  
(back) Subject: Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs... From: "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:43:43 CDT   > >Some thoughts: >You practically never hear a pianist saying, "No I don't want to play the =   >Mozart Concerto on a Steinway or Bosendorfer, get me a >rickety 200 year >old job with orginal action - that'll be the best!"   It's called historically informed practice. Aren't you the least bit curious about how music may have sounded in the composer's day? At Rice University in Houston, the music school purchased two restored pianos from =   the mid 1800s, a Pleyel and a Bosendorfer. Someone thinks these "rickety" =   things are revelant.     >J.S. Bach was one of the first and stauchest promoters of EQUAL = TEMPERAMENT >- being a baroque composer and having dealt with unequal temperaments all =   >his life - just why do you think HE was promoting >Equal Temp. ??? DO we =   >presume to be more musically knowledgeable than >he?   Well, as a matter of fact, YES. Music didn't die with Bach.         > >All musical instruments since thier start have evolved into better >instruments. Better for the listener, better for the player, better for =   >the composer. Why is it that only the organ prides it's self on >being >backward more and more?       Then why do people still drool over Stradivari, Amati, or Guarnari = violins? Or Ruckers, Blancet, Taskin harpsicords? Or Silbermanns and Schnitgers?       >And as far as ART is concerned let face it: a copy of anything is >still >just a copy no matter how good. A real artist makes thier own >fresh >creation.   They know how to spell, too.     > >Until we learn that while the past has held many good ideas and thoughts = - >it has also held equally many mistakes. We need to learn >from the = mistakes >and go on, not rebuild the mistakes and proclaim >them wonderful - nor >perpetuate the mistakes in the name of musical >sanctity and historical >piety. Skinner didn't think twice before >altering a Hutchings, Harrison =   >didn't think twice before altering a >Skinner - we come along after two >great masters and say, "Oh my what a >pity the organ has been altered" >UGH   Not everything Skinner or Harrison did was golden.       ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #1403 - 05/18/00 From: "Bruce Behnke" <behnke@lvcm.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 00 07:50:56 -0700   >Once the force required to break the seal between pallet and >the board is reached, the pallet has a tendency to snap open, no matter = how >hard the player tries to control it. It isn't at all like some, who have >yet to play a tracker instrument surmise, a continuously variable action,   This is fruit of the bull....   I have heard David Dahl play on the Steve Cook Opus 7 when he said, "You use a different touch with open pipe like the Principals than you would use with the stopped pipes." I was a little skeptical but he proceeded to demonstrate back and forth with different combinations and what a difference it made. Granted All Saints' is a rather intimate venue seating only 250 but claims about touch variation is true. OF course the pallets have to be the right size and well built do accomplish this. Paul Fritts and Martin Pasi also build instruments that cam be played this way. Get to the Pacific Northwest and try some of these fantastic instruments for yourself.   Bruce  
(back) Subject: Re: Franck on meantone, Buxtehude on E.M. Skinner, etc. etc. etc. From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:55:16 EDT   In a message dated 5/19/00 5:54:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, chorale@clara.co.uk writes:   > Oi ! you lookin' fer a fight? > Come over 'ere an' say that. Just wanted to see if you were awake!! ;-)   Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Great Recital Idea- a little ranting and raving From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:55:19 EDT   In a message dated 5/19/00 7:29:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time, = rringram@syr.edu writes:   > However, you also propose that only music of that particular period be > played on that instrument. Oh, wait, I'm doing a Franck Chorale. Let me =   just > pull out my handy-dandy five-manual Cavaille-Coll complete replica with = the > most kick@$$ swell pedal on the face of the earth. I live in a 3-room > apartment, I'm sure the landlord wouldn't mind if I just hoisted it = through > the ceilings and floors.   Sorry..... I proposed no such thing. I enjoy playing music of other periods on organs not of that period. The newness is exciting even if = the piece cannot be played "according to the book." What I AM proposing is = that people not get locked in to the idea that every organ be able to play all music authenitcally (or semi-authentically). The Syracuse Holtkamp is no =   doubt a fine instrument. I have not heard it, but have heard the very = famous one in Battel (sp?) Chapel in New Haven. It is quite a fine instrument = and unique in its own way, but it cannot play everything (authentically). = This is the fine distinction. If an organ has three manuals of 61 notes each, =   and a 32 note pedalboard, technically it can play "everything" but not "everything authentically." My point is that it is good to have = instruments that CAN play some music authentically; the rest of the literature simply =   will need to be adjusted to its nuances.   > Hey, I have a great idea for my recital next year. We'll start off in = my > church in Syracuse with the Bach because it is a boroque-era type > instrument. Next we'll drive to Montreal so you can hear Franck on a > Casavant. And THEN, we can come back down to Phoenix, NY to hear some = Byrd > on that lovely little Johnson they have down there. And then I'll = re-tune > the whole thing in meantone! It's not THAT hard!   Please lighten-up and relax your brain. You are at an age where = everything is experienced in a very intense way. If you will be more receptive to = that which is not coming from your present mentors, you will benefit greatly. =   I'm sure this will fall of deaf ears now, but one day you will think back = and say.... "hmmmmmmmmm, I do believe he had a point." (It happened to me, = so I hold to ill feelings.) ;-)     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs... From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:55:24 EDT   In a message dated 5/19/00 8:55:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes:   > Bruce, your logic (or lack of same) escapes me! I'm hanged if I can see what > you > do like. > I like things with integrity and beauty. It is, of course, subjective. = I don't like things that try to fool me or deceive me, and I don't like = garish hodge-podge.   Does that help?       Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: direct electric vs. electro-pneumatic vs... From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 10:55:20 EDT   In a message dated 5/19/00 8:54:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes:   > I enjoy my CDs > and I can hear visit organs from all over the world without moving from =   this > chair! Come on Bruce! You can't be as narrow as that! Sure I can. I can only truly appreciate what is REAL: God is real. Nature is real. Pipeorgans are real. Literature is real even if it's subject matter is not.     Bruce .. . . .in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles Molly, Duncan, and Miles Cremona502@cs.com http://ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Bach and Equal Temperament From: "Ray Ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 09:55:44 CDT   >Dr. White, of course, was the founder of the celebrated White School of >Pianoforte Technology in Chicago, which turned out many of the world's >foremost tuners and technicians. There's more in more musicological = tomes >on the shelves, but this will have to wait!     Never heard of him. I'll bet Gustav Leonhardt is a more reliable source = of temprament history. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: pitch (X-posted) From: <Quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 08:32:35 -0700   I forget which list the pitch discussion is on, but here's Maestro Ivan Fischer, Conductor of the Budapest Festival Orchestra, on the subject:   "Musical pitch is gradually moving up. In the eighteenth century music was played semitone lower. However it has not been constant. There were local differences. There were many attempts to agree about a pitch. Near the end of the nineteenth century the "Viennese a" has been agreed to: it was a=3D435. But it kept creeping up. Later a=3D440 was agreed. However some orchestras play with a=3D444 Hz. The reason is not pipes. It is a natural surge to make music sound more brilliant, bright.   Best wishes   Ivan"    
(back) Subject: Re: pitch From: "Edward Marsh" <edmarsh@lineone.net> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 17:21:47 +0100   > The reason is not pipes. It is a natural surge to make music sound more > brilliant, bright.   I tend to tune the harpsichord to A=3D442 in whatever temperament if I'm playing a programme involving just strings only. I have done this before using oboes - they don't like it!   Edward          
(back) Subject: Re: Death to Equal Temperament Society From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 12:36:04 EDT   Well I can't pass this one up.   Are we designing and installing organs (pay attention First Pres Portland) =   for our OWN egos, ears and academic whatever-the-hell-it-is OR are we = trying to provide instruments for CORPORATE WORSHIP that can ALSO play = literature?   You all can dissect this however you want. But I can ASSURE each and = every one of the that the 1933 Grand Kilgen at the National Shrine of the Little =   Flower was designed for and shall remain in equal temperament and will = NEVER be tuned in Meantone (or friendlytone) Kellner-Volotti-Kirnberger-Nerger-Murger-Meister III, XVII or an other meister. In fact- I think I have a VERY rare and one of a kind tuning situation with six chambers on two levels. Two of them in the upstairs gallery get direct morning sun, the other two get indirect afternoon semi-shade and the last two are two floors below ground and haven't seen = the light of day since 1933. So, in THAT case however- I will go along with = the fact that this organ is tuned in SHRINE Temperament!!!! =3Do)   Lastly- if any of you feel as though you are in "Redneck Organville," you = put yourself there by accepting a position on a limited instrument not geard = to Liturgy AND repertoire.   Scott Foppiano (The perfect organ=3Dall 8' and a 4' flute for brilliance! and ALL = conceivable couplers, of course) hee hee