PipeChat Digest #1414 - Tuesday, May 23, 2000
 
Re: theatre organ question
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Catholic Organist?????
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: Reverse Cipher?
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
RE: Biggs at Radio City?
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Jobs in Church Re: Catholic Organist?????
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: tracker theatre organs and other wild stuff
  by "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com>
Re: tracker theatre organs and other wild stuff
  by "Mr. Jan S. VanDerStad" <dcob@nac.net>
Re: Jobs in Church Re: Catholic Organist?????
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Catholics and Lanes
  by "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu>
Re: Jobs in Church Re: Catholic Organist?????
  by <CHERCAPA@aol.com>
social justice and RC salaries
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: theatre organ question
  by "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net>
organ sale
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Jobs in Church Re: Catholic Organist?????
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Social justice and RC salaries and schedules
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: theatre organ question From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 06:05:50 -0500   At 9:23 PM -0700 5/22/2000, Ray Thursby wrote: >This is getting interesting...! > >Regarding the question of "straight" theater organs--an oxymoron if ever >there was one--I recommend a look at the Atlantic City Ballroom Kimball, >designed by no less than Senator Emerson Richards his own self... > >According to William Barnes' book, some 24 of its 55 ranks are unit. The >rest are straight, and include two mixtures (totalling 12 ranks) and a >reasonable Diapason chorus. To balance that (depending on your point of >view) are the expected Tibia, Leathered Diapason on 15" pressure, Post = Horn, >Kinura, etc. and the Kimball trademark strings -- 14 ranks of 'em. All = with >a massive (the only kind Kimball could build!) 4M horseshoe console and = all >manner of traps and percussions. I've never heard it in person, but = Robert >Elmore made a recording on it years and years ago that I'd love to have = in >my library.   Ray is correct in his analysis of the Ballroom Kimball. However, it was designed more as a Symphonic instrument rather than a straight theatre organ. There are two fine Diapason choruses on it, one topped by a seven rank mixture and the other topped by a five rank mixture. They are not in the "usual" places that classically trained organists would expect - the "minor" chorus is on the Accomp. manual and the "major" chorus is on the Bombarde. There is a full breakdown of the ranks in the instrument on the ACCHOS web site at http://www.acchos.org   The original manager of the Ballroom did want an organ for movies but during the time it was designed and built talkies came in so it was prolly never used for that purpose. But Emerson Richards expanded on the original idea to come up with the current specification. The Diapason choruses are maybe not what we would consider very classical today but they are both fine in their own rights.   The whole organ is built to Kimball's "massive" specs and the strings are to die for. There are two of us on this list that have played and worked on the instrument during this past year including getting the roll player working again after numerous years. Unfortunately, due to the construction/reconstruction work going on in the building it is also out of service as is the Midmer-Losh in the main hall. The only tapes of it that exist of it recently are on some video I shot during the days we spent with it last October. Maybe the other person on the list will "chime in" with more information on the Kimball since I am travelling and don't have al my notes and resources with me.   In another post someone mentioned the unification in the Midmer-Losh. There is a fair amount of unification but all of "minor" types of ranks. The major choruses are very straight only nonessential ranks are unified for the most part and are more to give them more versatility. The main divisions like the Great, Swell and Choir are "straight" divisions with the unified ranks on the auxiliary divisions like the Great-Solo division and the Swell-Choir division. Here again you can find more info on the web site including the full stop-list for the organ.   We also have a booklet available that has the complete stoplist and the complete rank list for the M-L. More info is on the web site.   David   *************************** David Scribner Director of Communications The Atlantic City Convention Hall Organ Society, Inc. http://www.acchos.org mailto:info@acchos.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Catholic Organist????? From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 20:52:09 +0800   I agree. I am organist in a Uniting Church (used to be Methodist before Union) but I play regularly for Saturday night mass in a Catholic Church. Never any problem.However I'm not in love with their music. Bob E.   Stephen Ohmer wrote:   > This posting is not only ridiculous in several > places, but very bigoted and has no place on this > list. > > Stephen Ohmer > Bartlesville, OK > > --- Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> > wrote: > > > Happens all the time...which is another part of > > the reason RC churches on > > the whole don't have any decent music. This > > isn't anything new, > > either...it's been going on since I can > > remember. > > > > >I'm OUTRAGED!!!!!!! and find the whole thing > > stupid at the same time! Why? > > > > Maybe it's because you wouldn't convert? Such > > parochialism has returned > > since John XXIII went away, and has intensified > > during the > > ultraconservative reign of "The Big Pole". > > Look for possible changes after > > he cashes in, which will depend on how well > > Polski has the College's deck > > stacked, which appears to be pretty well in his > > favor right now. > > > > DeserTBoB > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > > organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: > > mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: Re: Reverse Cipher? From: <DRAWKNOB@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 10:43:02 EDT   Thanks everyone for your help. Monday I took a look at the pedal board = and sure enough there were some bent pins which were touching... once = straightend the problem was resolved.   Thanks again.   John  
(back) Subject: RE: Biggs at Radio City? From: "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:47:26 -0500   > > >Speaking of Mr. Biggs....did he REALLY play at Radio City? > I suspect he didn't....but Mr. Fox would!   I have a recording where Fox states: "tonight I am going to do all those things people say that I have done...I have NEVER played at Radio = City...."   (or words to that effect)   John V      
(back) Subject: Jobs in Church Re: Catholic Organist????? From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 13:29:34 EDT   In a message dated 5/23/00 2:29:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   <<Job-hunting is the name of the game in any field these days; loyalty to an employer is a foreign concept now, and usually just gets = you booted out eventually, whether it be a church or a typical corporation nowadays. Thus, the inquiry made, should the job have been good, would have been actively persued by me, should it have been better than the job = I had. 20 years ago, of course, this wasn't the case, as there was a = fairly unwritten contract of loyalty between employers and employees. The nefarious RayGun era of the '80s took care of that forever. Thus, I = would think that, in order to secure ever-better remuneration, one simply hops from job to job at will, thus depriving the employer of absolute control and power in terms of wages, benefits and working conditions, as = he/she/it must be somewhat competitive. Unfortunately, this "new" concept of labor relations is lost on most organists and choir masters, most of whom slave away week by week, simply marking time until they're unceremoniously = sacked by a head-tripping pastor or snooty music committee. I'm not saying that any of this is right. Loyalty is an enviable trait, but one that's now out of step with cold realities of the post-RayGun = age. One must be pragmatic in order to survive. >>   Well I disagree with the above statement. I did the "job hop" routine for = a few years and ended up where I am now. In fact, prior to coming to the National Shrine, I was very happy and content at my church in Pittsburgh (except for the infamous Phelps-a-phone) but I was not even looking for a = new position when this one opened up. I think that jumping from job to job = will not, in fact, gain higher wages but one basically starts over at each new position.   I know one individual, who has the personality of a door knob, plays extremely limited repertoire and thinks that he should be at Church of the =   Advent in Boston making $150k a year. He keeps moving from job to job for =   "more money", three years here, 11 months there, 8 months there and I hear =   he's looking again. What about moving and relocating and all that? My = Lord it gets old, and what about starting over in a position and building = programs?   I consider myself very fortunate here as does my associate. We have a one = of a kind fantastic pipe organ to play, a beautiful facility, wonderful musicians (volunteer and professional ensembles) and a supportive pastor = who wants good music and who does not micromanage. We earn very good salaries =   and full benefits, can teach as much as we want and have the breathing = space to perform outside weekend liturgies. The loyalty here is very evident on =   both parts and we are both very happy here.   One of the big problems in the church music world is that churches don't wanna pay. It's that simple. Therefore organists and choir directors, = many times, scramble in order to just make a living. There are also churches = that don't treat their musicians well at all, and I speak from experience. = It's a sad thing........but when one finds a good job where they can actually support themselves and be happy making music- HOLD ON TO IT! (and what is =   "The Ray Gun Era???")   Scott Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Re: tracker theatre organs and other wild stuff From: "Dave G." <dave_hat@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:20:01 PDT       >comes to mind as having built a few mostly-straight TO's (and I think = >they >even built a *tracker* TO or two!! Who'd have ever thunk >*that*!!).   Well, I was at least toying with the idea for the proposed Gemshorn-Violin-Zink organ I posted here a month or so ago; it was not well-received by certain pipe chat people.   In any case, I really think an electric action is the better way to go with TO's   In a related and interesting note: Around the end of December '99 I = designed a tracker machanism for fully unified multi-manual organs, including a 20 memory fully mechanical combination capture action. I designed it as something of a novelty in case Y2K knocked out all the electric power.   Would a fully mechanical any-unified-stop-playable-from-any-manual tracker =   action with combination action be of interest to anyone?   DG     ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com    
(back) Subject: Re: tracker theatre organs and other wild stuff From: "Mr. Jan S. VanDerStad" <dcob@nac.net> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:33:55 -0400   Hi, Dave   I'd be glad to see what you have as for that mechanical action unit organ.   Jan   Dave G. wrote:   > >comes to mind as having built a few mostly-straight TO's (and I think = >they > >even built a *tracker* TO or two!! Who'd have ever thunk >*that*!!). > > Well, I was at least toying with the idea for the proposed > Gemshorn-Violin-Zink organ I posted here a month or so ago; > it was not well-received by certain pipe chat people. > > In any case, I really think an electric action is the better > way to go with TO's > > In a related and interesting note: Around the end of December '99 I = designed > a tracker machanism for fully unified multi-manual organs, including a = 20 > memory fully mechanical combination capture action. I designed it as > something of a novelty in case Y2K knocked out all the electric power. > > Would a fully mechanical any-unified-stop-playable-from-any-manual = tracker > action with combination action be of interest to anyone? > > DG > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Jobs in Church Re: Catholic Organist????? From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 11:34:06   At 01:29 PM 5/23/2000 EDT, you wrote: >I consider myself very fortunate here as does my associate. We have a = one of >a kind fantastic pipe organ to play, a beautiful facility, wonderful >musicians (volunteer and professional ensembles) and a supportive pastor = who >wants good music and who does not micromanage. We earn very good = salaries >and full benefits, can teach as much as we want and have the breathing = space >to perform outside weekend liturgies. The loyalty here is very evident = on >both parts and we are both very happy here.<snip>   Needless to say, you should be be, given that you've probably got the best musical job in an RC church anywhere in the US! Had you not done the "job hopping" thing, you never would have wound up there, now, would you?   >One of the big problems in the church music world is that churches don't >wanna pay. It's that simple. Therefore organists and choir directors, = many >times, scramble in order to just make a living. There are also churches = that >don't treat their musicians well at all, and I speak from experience. It's a >sad thing....<snip>   Amen to that! Be sure of one thing, however...this surely isn't limited = to the RC church! There's enough blame with this problem to go around = equally among all denominations, to be sure!   (and what is "The Ray Gun Era???")<snip>   Otherwise known as the "greed is good era" of the 1980's, personified by a president of little intelligence that was used as a puppet by corporate = and other interests in furthering their own goals. It was during this time that we saw a major disintegration of respect for employees as a group by profit-hungry managerial types in the corporate arena, along with a lot of other excesses and goofs, like the huge mountain of national debt we're finally starting to pay off.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Catholics and Lanes From: "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 14:41:18 -0400     ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 8:33 PM Subject: Re: Catholic Organist--could be worse     > At 05:45 PM 5/22/2000 -0400, you wrote: > >The final insult was that this person was using all 4's, chords in the left > >hand, no pedal, and rode the swell pedal like a bucking bronco.<snip> > > Hmmmm...that same person must get around and be ageless, for I found the > same party bumbling around in no less than two RCs that I played at! At   Well it -was- a pretty young guy. Oh well. At least I didn't have to work = at 9am....   > least your Kleenex box had a Hillgreen-Lane! Did it have the trademark > horseshoe console?   Nope. It was a 1912 or so....as far as I know it was just "Lane". I = remember how hard it was to get in that thing. Wonder if it's the same people that make those little hope chests. Would explain the lovely oak case and the need to be under 100 pounds to get inside of it!      
(back) Subject: Re: Jobs in Church Re: Catholic Organist????? From: <CHERCAPA@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:29:53 EDT   Dear Scott, To this day I cannot figure out how the church can preach = social justice and offer so little in the way of salary to their musicians. I believe that the Papal Encyclical "Rerum Novarum" talks about social = justice in the Catholic Church and that people need a living wage. Why that does = not filter down into the Pastors from the Bishop is beyond me. My = sister-in-law played for two Catholic churches for many years and got a stipend of = $7,000. When she decided to give it up, they asked if she would sit on the = selection committee to interview the applicants. They are offering the new applicant =   $24,000. a year. She was really upset and I don't blame her. She and my brother put three kids through college prior to this and the extra money would have been really valued. What can I say. The system stinks. Paul  
(back) Subject: social justice and RC salaries From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 12:58:02 -0700   Part of the problem was that the PRIESTS got next to nothing ... in the = Diocese of Cleveland in the '60s, a priest got $100 per month, plus his daily Mass stipend of $5, if he was in a nationality parish where all the daily = Masses were High Masses; otherwise, $2 a day for Low Mass. Granted, he got room and = board, but some of those rectories ... oh my! At Holy Rosary, the second = assistant slept in the attic. I don't know if there was health insurance in those = days ... practically every parish had at least one doctor who'd treat the priests = and nuns for free, as did the Catholic hospitals.   I think I got a dollar a Mass in those days, and it came out of the = priest's five-dollar stipend. And I DIDN'T get room, board, or medical.   Things started to change when the older generation of organists (who = usually had NO skills at leading congregational singing, since all they had to do = previously was play and sing solo High Masses) started dying off, and Vatican II = demanded that the emphasis be on the SUNDAY liturgies, rather than the daily High = Masses. Prior to that, most places only had music at one Mass on Sunday: the = choral High Mass. Holy Rosary in Cleveland was one of the first places in the diocese = to have hymn-singing and organ music at ALL seven Sunday Masses.   NOW Catholic organists make their living by being chained to the console = all day Saturday for weddings, and all day Sunday for umpty-ump Masses. Still not = a pretty picture, withal. I can't imagine being able to bring creativity and energy to that many services.   Some RC dioceses take a more enlightened tack, but not many.   Dr. Edwin Arthur Kraft at Trinity (Episcopal) Cathedral in Cleveland got a full-time salary for ONE Sunday service: Solemn High Morning Prayer at = 11:00 (with Communion on the first Sunday of the month), which gave him time to = teach, practice and compose.   FAR too many organists don't see their secular jobs for what they are: = subsidies for their churches' music programs. Pay me a living wage, and I'll tithe, = but don't expect me to work forty additional hours a week at something else = for the privilege of doing music on Sundays. And, of course, we all KNOW that it = ISN'T just Sundays.   Cheers,   Bud       CHERCAPA@aol.com wrote:   > Dear Scott, To this day I cannot figure out how the church can preach = social > justice and offer so little in the way of salary to their musicians. I > believe that the Papal Encyclical "Rerum Novarum" talks about social = justice > in the Catholic Church and that people need a living wage. Why that does = not > filter down into the Pastors from the Bishop is beyond me. My = sister-in-law > played for two Catholic churches for many years and got a stipend of = $7,000. > When she decided to give it up, they asked if she would sit on the = selection > committee to interview the applicants. They are offering the new = applicant > $24,000. a year. She was really upset and I don't blame her. She and my > brother put three kids through college prior to this and the extra money > would have been really valued. What can I say. The system stinks. Paul > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: theatre organ question From: "STRAIGHT" <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:01:40 -0400   Well there's at least one Straight theatre organ in existence, made by Rogers, because I just bought it. (Just couldn't pass that one up!)   Grins, Diane Straight (straight@infoblvd.net)      
(back) Subject: organ sale From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 15:07:24 -0500   Anyone on the list want to check into an organ in a church in = Indianapolis? From what I can see, it's an Aeolean residence instrument with a WurliTzer bourdon added. The cable has been cut and console removed. It has a solid-state system in it. It has chimes. The instrument was 'sold' but the deal fell thru. Rough guess on rankage is 8 to 12. Pipework and chests are very clean.   Reply if interested.   Rick          
(back) Subject: Re: Jobs in Church Re: Catholic Organist????? From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:10:38 -0400 (EDT)   Good points Scott. In my present position, I make a fair salary, have a good organ to play, but it is a dead-end slot, and the church attendance is declining. There are other factors which are leading me to seek another place of service.   So, I'm looking for a spot in a larger congregation where I can stay put for 20 years or so, til my kids get through school (the first is just finishing 1st grade). Until the right position comes along, I will stay where I am (things aren't THAT bad).   Why? Because there are folks here I can minister to until God leads me elsewhere. I just got an e-mail from a church that said they want a pastor first, musician second. That kind of place is NOT for me. I believe God wants me to minister through music.... GOOD music.   I don't know where I've gone with all this rambling, but there has to be a balance between loyalty and reality. Providing for our families is not an option for some of us. Working in the field God has chosen for us is not an option either. But as I always say, God provides for his children.   Amen, I'm done. Neil    
(back) Subject: Social justice and RC salaries and schedules From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Tue, 23 May 2000 16:51:50 EDT   Judicious snippage applied below: (hee hee)   << Part of the problem was that the PRIESTS got next to nothing ... in the=20 Diocese of Cleveland in the '60s, a priest got $100 per month, plus his daily Mass stipend of $5, if he was in a nationality parish where all the daily Masses= =20 were High Masses; otherwise, $2 a day for Low Mass. Granted, he got room and=20 board,I don'tt know if there was health insurance in those days ...I think I= =20 got a dollar a Mass in those days, and it came out of the priest's=20 five-dollar stipend. =20 Things started to change when the older organists started dying and Vatican= =20 II demanded emphasis on the SUNDAY liturgies. Prior to that, most places onl= y=20 had music at one Mass on Sunday: the choral High Mass. NOW Catholic=20 organists make their living by being chained to the console all day Saturday= =20 for weddings, and all day Sunday for umpty-ump Masses. Still not a pretty=20 picture, withal. I can't imagine being able to bring creativity and energy t= o=20 that many services. Some RC dioceses take a more enlightened tack, but not=20 many. FAR too many organists don't see their secular jobs for what they are= :=20 subsidies for their churches' music programs. Don't expect me to work forty=20 additional hours a week at something else for the privilege of doing music o= n=20 Sundays. And, of course, we all KNOW that it ISN'T just Sundays.>>   There are some very good points here. When I was in Pittsburgh I was=20 Organist-Choirmaster at St. Th=E9r=E8se of Lisieux (ironic considering where= I am=20 now!) on that LUUUUUUUVELY Phelps-a-phone Casavant. I played Saturday=20 afternoon masses at 4 and 6 and Sunday morning masses at 8, 9:30, 11 and=20 12:30. There was another person that played for the Sunday evening mass at=20 7. I played all funerals and weddings throughout the week. There we may=20 have had one or two funerals a week and not that many weddings, perhaps 25 a= =20 year.   I cannot speak for ANY other parish in this Archdiocese (Detroit) but can=20 share what my assistant, Rob, and I do here. =20   Monday:=20 6:30 am (no music)=20 8:30 am- Rob=20   Tuesday: =20 6:30 am (no music)=20 8:30 am Grade School Liturgy with Cantors- Scott=20   Wednesday 6:30 am (no music) 8:30 am Grade School Liturgy with Cantors- Rob=20 8:30 am High School Liturgy (at Shrine High School)- Scott   Thursday 6:30 am (no music) 8:30 am- Scott=20   Friday 6:30 am (no music) 8:30 am- Rob=20   Saturday 8:30 am- Rob 4:30 pm- Scott 6:30 pm- Folk Choir   Sunday 7:30 am- Scott (with Cantor) 9:00 am- Rob (with Cantor and Shrine Treble Choir) 10:45 am- Scott plays mass/directs choir, Rob accompanies (Choir High Mass) 12:30 pm- Rob (with Cantor) 6:00 pm- Life Teen Ensemble   On days when Rob or I are "on" at the church we take any funerals scheduled=20 for those days. In addition, the weekly schedule rotates so that one week I= =20 will play Thursday morning and Rob will play Friday and Saturday morning, th= e=20 next week Rob plays Thursday morning and I play Friday and Saturday morning.= =20 It actually works out very well all around with plenty of time to practice,=20 arrange, administrate the music programs etc.   Regarding weddings, I have first right of refusal but delegate what I need t= o=20 over to Rob (who says he doesn't really want to do weddings). Keep in mind=20 that we have between 150-175 weddings here annually, so it adds up time wise= =20 (and bank account wise!) We receive a lesser stipend for funerals but it to= o=20 comes in handy none the less. We average about 100-125 funerals annually. =20 Sometimes we have none for weeks on end and other times we have four and fiv= e=20 a week. It goes in cycles.   There was organ music at the 6:30 am masses Monday through Friday but the=20 decision was made that the programs would better develop and grow and the=20 organists time better spent doing other things. There is not a need for=20 music EVERY TIME THE DOORS ARE UNLOCKED, and thankfully the Pastor here and=20 the music staff agreed to abolish music at that mass. In all honesty- peopl= e=20 did not participate, they were fidgety and in a hurry to "get their magic=20 wafer" and get out and go to work. (Direct quote from Monsignor describing=20 the attitudes of many of the attendees at that Liturgy.) So, now that mass=20 is about 10-12 minutes shorter and people can get to where they need to be.=20= =20 The really interesting thing is that the 6:30 am mass here M-F draws around=20 175 people EVERY morning. (But in a 3000 seat room that doesnt look like=20 much). Every time we would start the blowers, which at that hour sounded=20 like a jet taking off because they SEEMED so loud "in the middle of the=20 night," we would get dirty looks from several people in the church piously=20 praying or on their knees on the hard stone floor in front of the tabernacle= =20 at that hour. Further proof that organ at that mass was neither needed nor=20 wanted.   Rob and I have a very good alternating schedule and both make a good living=20 here with full benefits, teaching and all the weddings and funerals and=20 outside concerts we can stand. Well, weddings-, hmmmmm, brides (and their=20 mothers), hmmmmmmmm, now there's another thread all together! UGH! =3Do= )   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI