PipeChat Digest #1427 - Tuesday, May 30, 2000
 
Re: Other Crumhorn notes
  by "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk>
Re: Other Crumhorn notes
  by "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net>
Re: Other Crumhorn notes
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Other Crumhorn notes
  by "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Other Crumhorn notes From: "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 01:30:48 +0100   From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> Subject: Re: Other Crumhorn notes     > You need to do some studying.   Please don't be so patronising Bob, it is just possible that you may not be great authority that you think yourself to be.   >Any experienced tuner will tell you it's the > flues that change seasonally...NOT the reeds.   I am fascinated to hear by this assertion, that reed pipe resonators are immune to seasonal influence.   > All tuners "fudge" the reeds > to match the changing flues, thus giving the reeds a bum rap. Bob, pay more attention to the post you are responding to, the main thrust of which was, of reed pipes going out of tune WITHIN the rank   > Sorry...you lose...again. Is that what this is about, winning and losing? A bit immature there methinks.   I will nevertheless endeavour to continue with my life in the face of such a bitter defeat at your hands. Though I don't know how I shall manage it - fifty years of playing, tuning, and repairing, pipe organs - and now reduced to defeat because of a flat honking reed that I thought was out of tune. How could I have been so STUPID, of course it wasn't out of tune, it was the rest of the organ that was off. Bob, thank you, thank you, thank you, for pointing this out to me, in time to prevent me from tapping it back in. I am forever in your debt and have learned my lesson. REEDS DO NOT GO OUT OF TUNE.   Chris B    
(back) Subject: Re: Other Crumhorn notes From: "Roy Redman" <rredman@imagin.net> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 07:33:37 -0500   Tuning instability in reed pipes is caused by several factors: general poor quality, thin tongues for given windpresure, improperly adjusted wire tension, improperly adjusted resonator length, unreliable valve action especially with direct valve electric, poor racking. Some of our best reed makers and voicers produce reeds which are very stable, and if placed on a good windchest certainly will not need weekly tuning. They may be of tune with the flues, however, if the temperature is different than when they were tuned. Roy Redman   Chris Baker wrote:   > From: Bob Scarborough > > > It's not the reeds that go out of tune. It's the flues. The flues > do all > > the changing, the reeds take all the beating. > > Bob, you were riding this one a couple of months ago. > I assume that you are following some esoteric purity of reasoning, > rather than commenting on the realities of pipe tuning? > > The reality with reed pipes is that they go out of tune more rapidly > than flue pipes. This is hardly surprising, given the mechanical > forces imparted by a reed tongue on the hook of the tuning wire. But > more to the point, reed pipes lose tune *within* their rank - > individual pipes falling flat against their neighbours, as well as > against the general tune of the instrument. > > What is the *practicality* of your premise, against the empirical > wisdom that if you give the 8' Trumpet a bit of a flogging in the solo > range, a couple of pipes are going to 'drop off ' a bit, and need > tapping back in before next week. ? > > Perhaps you are blessed with an instrument, containing reed stops > whose pitch responds to environmental and mechanical influences in > precise line with the flue stops, and which remain constantly in tune > with the other pipes of their ranks. I have never experienced this in > half a century at the organ, but I wish you the joy of it, whilst > remaining deeply envious. > :) > Chris B > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Other Crumhorn notes From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 20:39:50 EDT   Excellent points from across the pond Mr. Baker. However everyone has = missed one big point in regard to reeds. DIRT!. It's a dirty world. Reeds are = vastly more sensitive to dirt than flues. Flys, beetles, bees, moths, ladybugs, roaches, spiders, etc... Some installations are more susceptible than = others. It's not hard to clean out bugs and dirt. We are giving reeds a bad rap. = I know of reed stops that are so stable that you could tune mixtures to = them. I don't care what anyone says - there is no way that a flue pipe can sound = like a fiery European ( Giezeke ) reed or even a comparatively mild ( but = stable ) Moller ( Adolph Zajick ) reed. Organs need reeds. "JUST TUNE IT!" D.R.   Alan B.  
(back) Subject: Re: Other Crumhorn notes From: "Chris Baker" <chorale@clara.co.uk> Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 01:48:22 +0100     From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Subject: Re: Other Crumhorn notes     > > Any experienced tuner will tell you it's the > > flues that change seasonally...NOT the reeds.   > EEEEK! He IS an experience tuner. Lordy, the poopoo's gonna roll!!! > > Bruce   Oh all right then, just this once I will reply to one that I would normally leave alone. .................................. ,,,,   There, I've done it. I've gone and indulged myself (thanks to YOUR suggestion, [it was Bruce's idea everybody!]), and sent off a reply.   Bruce old chum, the truth is I am getting too old to bother with the aggravations that I used to revel in. There are just too many people who know *everything* and consequently have nothing to learn. I seem to reach for the mail filters more and more these days. Speaking of which, if you will excuse me for a moment, I have another one to add.   There, (again), that's done. Regards, Chris