PipeChat Digest #2549 - Saturday, December 8, 2001 Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... by <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Re: "Electrotone" ? by "Bob Elms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... by "Bob Elms" <email@example.com> Choir Goes Hollywood by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Teaching Organists to Self-Destruct by <TubaMagna@aol.com> Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... by "Dennis Goward" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... by <Pologaptommy@aol.com> [VERY LONG] Advent Lessons and Carols at St. Agatha's by "Glenda" <email@example.com> Reger's 'Weihnachten', again by "Stan Yoder" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Teaching Organists to Self-Destruct by <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... by <email@example.com> RTR FM by "Mack" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Elect(r)ones by "Ken Earl" <email@example.com> Re: RTR FM by "Greg Corbett" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: RTR FM by "Bob North" <email@example.com> Re: Tuners and Tuning by "pat and ian" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: Choir Goes Hollywood by "douglas morgan" <email@example.com> Where is Worthington? by "The Schneider Family" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... From: <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 05:12:40 EST Ross, you certainly have not heard a new Allen, or Rogers, or Walker! And = if you have it most certainly had to have been poorly installed. The size of = the organ is irrelevant. Whether it was a new 4 manual 150 stop organ, or = a new two manual 38 stop organ, they all create amazing reproductions of authentic pipe sound, and given the right acoustical surroundings, much = like an authentic pipe organ (given that they are of a reputable make). Even large, beautiful pipe organs can sound like crud in poor acoustical surroundings, just like the digital organ. Had in not been for these wonderful digital organs, most of today's churches, large and small, would = go without the beautiful music produced by these magnificent organs. = Certainly even an older electronic organ can sound desirable in a good acoustical setting, and frankly I must wonder just how many digital organs you have heard and played on. The fact is, yes there is very beautiful music being = emitted from these organs for church services, recitals, concerts, and recordings every day. And, if the effects were as undesirable as you say they are, then these instruments would not endure the daily use that most church organs receive. Please, go to different churches and hear the new digital organs, play them, compare them! They are not nearly as terrible = as you think! I wonder just how many people on this list weekly play on electronic organs? Thanks Josh (just waiting for the repercussions)
(back) Subject: Re: "Electrotone" ? From: "Bob Elms" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 04:52:54 -0800 Of course not!!! B. E. Myosotis51@aol.com wrote: > > Bruce wrote: > > > Why do you consider it "snobbery" not to like the > > sound of an electronic thingy? Just because someone > > does not like the sound of a particular instrument, does > > not necessarily make them a snob! > > Have you heard them ALL, and with an open mind? > >
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... From: "Bob Elms" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 05:01:17 -0800 I can understand people having an antipathy towards electronic organs which they probably see as a threat to the real thing. But to condemn and/or "hate" amplified sound closes an awful lot of doors doesn't it? It shuts most of the world away from music. Personally I have played some recent electronic organs which are very good indeed. Oh Yes!! Grunt all you like but that is the truth!!!! Yes, I would prefer a good pipe organ but some pipe organs are not good and the electronic substitute can then be better by far. I will now adjust my Nissan hut to deflect the arrows of outrageous fortune or something like that, and retire again into the background. Bob Elms. Ross & Lynda Wards wrote: > > My point was that these people do NOT fill any space with beautiful = music, > only with amplified sound that I find offensive.
(back) Subject: Choir Goes Hollywood From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:12:50 EST --part1_167.53f97ca.294379e2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Greetings all, Several months ago the Worthington (OH) United Methodist Church choir and organist presented "Choir Goes Hollywood" during which organist Bill = Haller accompanied a silent film in the sanctuary on an Allen 3 manual theatre = organ rented for that very purpose. He also showed clips of various film = musicals with the sound turned down, and accompanied assorted choir members while = they provided the vocals for the movies. For example, one male singer and = Haller at the organ performed while Gene Kelly did "Dancing In The Rain" silently = on the screen. The sanctuary was nearly filled with an appreciative audience. Well, for those who missed it first time around, the choir is doing it = again. "Choir Goes Hollywood II" will be presented June 1, 2002. Dessert (last = time it was strawberry shortcake) will be served at 6:30 pm, and the musical program (will popcorn be served again?) will begin at 7:30 pm in the sanctuary. Adults $5 & children under 12 free. Information: call the church at 614/885-5365 during the week day. Musically, Stan Krider --part1_167.53f97ca.294379e2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Greetings all,<BR> <BR> Several months ago the Worthington (OH) United Methodist Church choir and = organist presented "Choir Goes Hollywood" during which organist Bill = Haller accompanied a silent film in the sanctuary on an Allen 3 manual = theatre organ rented for that very purpose. He also showed clips of = various film musicals with the sound turned down, and accompanied assorted = choir members while they provided the vocals for the movies. For example, = one male singer and Haller at the organ performed while Gene Kelly did = "Dancing In The Rain" silently on the screen. The sanctuary was nearly = filled with an appreciative audience.<BR> <BR> Well, for those who missed it first time around, the choir is doing it = again.<BR> <BR> "Choir Goes Hollywood II" will be presented June 1, 2002. Dessert (last = time it was strawberry shortcake) will be served at 6:30 pm, and the = musical program (will popcorn be served again?) will begin at 7:30 pm in = the sanctuary. Adults $5 & children under 12 free.<BR> <BR> Information: call the church at 614/885-5365 during the week day.<BR> <BR> Musically,<BR> Stan Krider</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: = #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_167.53f97ca.294379e2_boundary--
(back) Subject: Teaching Organists to Self-Destruct From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:30:39 EST Dear pipechatters: "Pologaptommy@aol.com" makes an argument for the beautiful music which = issues from electronic organs every Sunday. Let us ALL distinguish between the beauty of the MUSIC and the beauty of the instrument producing it. He is correct in his statement that many congregations cannot afford = genuine pipe organs, and resort to imitations. It is also important that we = realize that many churches that CAN afford real instruments choose to put their = money elsewhere. I know of one church that opted to purchase a remote parking = lot with the pipe organ fund. After seven years, the lot remains unpaved, = unused, unusable to anybody at the church, and they have no organist or music program. It was to have been the only pipe organ in the town. He also says that the success of all instruments, both real pipe organs = and sampled instruments, is CONTINGENT upon a fine acoustic. ANY experienced pipe organ builder can tell you that this is patently false. Over the centuries, some exceptionally beautiful pipe organs have been built in intimate chapels with literally NO acoustic, and are successful PRECISELY BECAUSE the size of the room NATURALLY DICTATES the size and scope of the organ. With all due respect, these are NOT "magnificent instruments." They are technology designed to plagiarize. Sampling is merely theft of talent, regurgitated through a speaker. The act of "voicing" and "tonally = finishing" a sampled device completely negates the argument that it is a reproduction = of fine art, as the act of changing digital values and twisting knobs and the = like ALTERS the sound. The alleged copy of some talented pipe voicer's = sound is then corrupted, and becomes yet another electronic tone. Yes, the electronic simulation of the pipe organ is pervasive, prevalent, = and growing, as is disrespect of the organ and its music. When the serious musical community sees us settling for ANYTHING, witnesses us discounting ourselves, our tastes, our standards, and our expectations of ourselves, = of COURSE the organ will go by the wayside. Ask ANY musician -- pianist, violinist, flautist, etc. -- to name MORE = THAN ONE piece of organ music, and they probably CANNOT do it. If you are = LUCKY, you'll get "Toccata and Fugue in d minor," rather than, "Oh, yeah, the 'Dracula' music, you know, TaDa-DAAAA." Ask them to name some violin or = piano music, and you could be there all day. Sebastian Matthaus Gluck New York City
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... From: "Dennis Goward" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 08:17:00 -0700 > Ross, you certainly have not heard a new Allen, or Rogers, or Walker! = And if > you have it most certainly had to have been poorly installed. The size = of > the organ is irrelevant. No, I think he brings up a good point. Size does matter. (No, not that!) I think it is extremely possible to have too MUCH digital organ for a = room. Just because a builder could put a 4 manual 80 stop monster in the 30-seat chapel doesn't mean they SHOULD. Small spaces cry out for an instrument carefully crafted to fill just that space, and not give enough to spill = out into the parking lot and beyond. I recall one installation where, when I walked into the room and saw the organ, I looked about and asked the dealer, "Is this the whole church?" = It was a wonderful organ, great installation, but the organ was far more instrument than the room asked for. D
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... From: <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 10:31:13 EST You are right on that. You CAN have too much organ, or you can have too little organ....I was simply stating that most organ manufacturers use the = same quality of digital sampling on the large ones, as they do the smaller = ones. And just becuase a large monstrous organ is installed in a small chapel, you can't blame the organ company for that! They can't force you = to buy something you don't want! josh
(back) Subject: [VERY LONG] Advent Lessons and Carols at St. Agatha's From: "Glenda" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 09:28:09 -0600 Festival of Advent Lessons and Carols Friday, December 7, 2001 - 7:30 p.m. St. Agatha's Episcopal Church, DeFuniak Springs, Florida Prelude: Nun komm, der Heiden Heiland [text is at Hymnal 54] - J.S. Bach (me) Sleepers, wake, a voice is sounding [Wachet auf; text is at Hymnal 62] - J.S. Bach (Ken) Come, thou fount of every blessing [Nettleton; text is at Hymnal 686] - arr. Christine Anderson/Anna Laura Page; Danny Lyons, handbells *Congregational Hymn: O Come, O come, Emmanuel - Hymnal 56 Officiant: The Bidding Prayer *Congregational Hymn: Savior of the nations, come - Hymnal 54 The First Lesson. Genesis 3: 8-15 *Congregational Hymn: Father eternal, Ruler of creation [Langham] - Hymnal 573 The Second Lesson. Genesis 22: 9-18 Choir Anthem: Creator of the stars of night [Conditor alme siderum - text Hymnal 60] - Malcolm Archer The Third Lesson. Isaiah 40: 1-11 Anthem: He shall feed his flock - G.F. Handel (Danny Lyons, handbells) The Fourth Lesson. Isaiah 9: 2, 6-7 *Congregational Hymn: Blest be the King whose coming [Valet will ich dir geben] - Hymnal 74 The Fifth Lesson. Isaiah 35: 1-10 *Congregational Hymn: Hark! a thrilling voice is sounding [Merton] - Hymnal 59 The Sixth Lesson. Isaiah 60: 1-6, 19 *Congregation and choir: Let all mortal flesh keep silence [Picardy] - Hymnal 324 The Seventh Lesson. Micah 5: 2-4 *Congregational Hymn: Lord, enthroned in heavenly splendor [Bryn Calfaria] - Hymnal 307 The Eighth Lesson. Isaiah 11: 1-9 Anthem: Lo, how a Rose e'er blooming (15th c. German)[text is at Hymnal 81] - Danny Lyons, handbells *Congregational Hymn: O day of peace, that dimly shines [Jerusalem] - Hymnal 597 The Ninth Lesson. Luke 1: 26-56 *Congregational Hymn: Tell out, my soul, the greatness of the Lord [Woodlands] - Hymnal 438 Choir Anthem: Manger Song - Leo Sowerby Officiant: Closing Prayers Choir Anthem: Jubilate Domino - D. Swann Officiant: Advent Blessing *Congregational Hymn - Lo, he comes with clouds descending [St. Thomas] - Hymnal 56 Dismissal Postlude - Joseph est bien marie - Guilmant Ken Karadin and I shared organ bench duty; members of the Pensacola Chapter of the AGO served as choir, and members of the church read the lessons. Our choir needed a couple more members and a half-dozen more practices, but it went OK. Ken picked the Manger Song and the Jubilate Deo; I picked the Creator of the Stars and Picardy. You know they're desperate when I am in the soprano row, but my days of singing Gs and As are over. The readers did a really good job - they knew I was out of sorts with the priest at the rehearsal Wednesday night. They did not get their readings until they arrived that night, so had no time to review beforehand. I know the readers practiced hard, because they did a good job. I called a friend who works out of town to pick up toner and drum for the copier for me (the problem with living in DeFuniak is that when you need stuff like that, you have to drive about 50 miles to some other town to get it). On Thursday the priest came to me and wanted to know what was wrong with the rehearsal, and I had an opportunity to tell him that because this had been scheduled since the first of September he could have put a little more effort into securing readers, providing the readings ahead of time, and preparing for the rehearsal itself. He acknowledged that that was so, and we stuffed bulletins together, largely in silence. Whether we have truly made up remains to be seen - I don't know if he carries grudges, but will find out. The church was packed, despite people's having to get past the roadblocks where the city is charging admission for people to travel on a public road to see the Christmas light show on the lakeyard. The service turned out OK. Ken always does an excellent job, but has a way of hovering and making a nuisance of himself while I am playing, and he did not take the postlude. So I had first prelude and postlude, took half the hymns and accompanied Danny on two of his three solos. Ken directed the choir from the bench, did a prelude and half the hymns. I did well despite the distraction - my lot in life is always to play under adversity, and having Ken in the way is better than broken limbs. He is my instructor, and it's hard for me to tell him to go sit the hell down because he's bothering me. At least my back was much improved. Danny received applause after his prelude just like last year. He had told me last year that he was embarrassed and thought I would be mad because people applauded during a church service. I replied that I thought it was funny, and it was just like him to steal the show! The reception given by members of the church was a tour de force, and the church members were ecstatic about the whole service. One apologized to me for not being there to help move the furniture before the service, and they all pitched in the put the church and parish hall back in order. I made it home somewhere around 10:15 or later. I've told them no lessons and carols next year - I'm going skiing! Regards to all on a lovely Saturday morning, Glenda Sutton P.S. This new computer is so neat - I feel like I've made it to the twenty-first century. Neat tiny speakers with a subwoofer to play music (Harley Davidson road songs, of course), and the computer tells me when there is an incoming call. The state freeze on positions is over, and I was offered my promotion again - am scared to take it now.
(back) Subject: Reger's 'Weihnachten', again From: "Stan Yoder" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 10:43:05 -0500 Various sources of info I have give op.145 as 1915 and 1916. Anybody know= for sure which is correct? Whence, then, the "1914" often added to the title? Is there hard evidence= that Reger was reflecting on the impromptu truce on the Western front on Christmas Day 1914?=20 Said sources identify the four chorales/carols used. The second chorale i= n the first section is variously identified as "Ach, was soll ich S=FCnder machen" and "Kommst d= u, kommst du, Licht der Heiden." The first of these I can find in the '371 JSB chorales', etc., b= ut not the second. I assume it is another text sung to the same tune. Or is it the first line of a la= ter stanza in "Ach, was soll..."? Thanks in advance, Stan Yoder Pittsburgh
(back) Subject: Re: Teaching Organists to Self-Destruct From: <Pologaptommy@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 10:47:27 EST Sebastian, I can easily see where a lot of people can dislike the electronic organ, = as it replaces what most organists grew up on and in a way, replaces reality. = But I am in no position to refuse to play on any instrument that may come = my way. As an organist I think its my duty to make the best of any organ and = its surroundings, as you probably do to. Yes a good organ builder, and voicer can make an organ sound well in most acoustical surroundings. But = we have all played on pipe organs, large and small, that did not adapt well = to their surroundings, and sounded terrible. Sometimes because of = renovation, sometimes because of age- whatever the reason, not all pipe organs sound = good in there present environment...and I hate to say, that sometimes a good digital organ would serve some churches better! Josh
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... From: <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 08:36:21 -0800 Ross & Lynda Wards wrote: > My point was that these people do NOT fill any space with beautiful = music, > only with amplified sound that I find offensive. When in California 2 = years > ago I heard, and played, a 4-deck allen with c150 stops, in a church = seating > 1900. I couldn't stick full chorus at all, and the sound was so horrible = in > the Bach P&F in G at the end that I had to leave after 3 minutes. I wonder if we played the same Allen (grin) ... Now, here's the thing: Allens HAVE all those wonderful voicing capacities, = but very few people, even the Allen installers, know how to take full = ADVANTAGE of them. The BEST thing to do is INSIST upon the "suits" from the FACTORY = coming out to do the installation and voicing, but one seldom gets that unless = it's a top-of-the-line CUSTOM organ. It happens that both the owners and the sales manager of the Allen = franchise in San Diego are first-rate concert, theatre and church organists ... the = sales manager is Principal Guest Organist of the Spreckels Organ in Balboa Park = ... IF one writes enough money into a contract to ALLOW them the time to voice an = organ properly, it CAN be done, but Allen typically does not allow the local = dealer that luxury. One ALSO has to know EXACTLY what one WANTS, and be able to = put it into WORDS, as well as having a fair idea of how to GET it from a laptop = plugged into the back of the console. Another problem is that many churches which install these organs do so = because they AREN'T prepared physically or acoustically for a pipe organ. THAT = being the case, NOTHING is going to sound right in those rooms. Electronic organs = require mixing chambers for the speakers which SHOULD be of a size approaching = that of an equivalent pipe organ. Rare indeed is the Southern California church architect who knows that, and rarer still is the church that is willing to = PAY for it in a new building. I had a battle royal with OUR building committee to get adequate space and placement for a very MODEST pipe organ, and it cost something on the order = of $30K U.S. to GET it. So ... there are other factors at work BESIDES the basic mode of tonal production. The four-manual Allen *I* played was in a "praise hall" style church, with upholstered theatre seats, a carpeted rostrum, and little = more than a shallow shelf across the back of the rostrum for the speakers. The = architect had (typically) damped the acoustics down to zero; everything was miked, = and the reverb was added back in electronically from a mixing console. Of COURSE = the organ sounded harsh. I don't know how much time was spent voicing it in = the room, but it sounded like it was simply unpacked and hooked up. Now, how much of the blame for situations like that falls on the Allen = dealer, and how much on the church? I don't know. I HAVE worked with Allen and = Rodgers organs that WERE made to sound reasonably good ... one Rodgers = installation in particular, we spent the better part of a week voicing it in the church, = and it was a VERY modest two-manual instrument. But they knew from the outset = that it was going to be that way ... that instrument also had something on the = order of FOUR TIMES as many speakers and amps as the normal minimum complement = provided by the factory ... something ELSE that the typical church isn't willing to = do. So ... it CAN be done with a reasonable amount of success, but it takes a certain amount of "pushiness" to GET it done (grin). Cheers, Bud
(back) Subject: RTR FM From: "Mack" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 12:48:03 -0500 Greetings Listers just to let those not on TO-L what is going on. Cheers, Mack Hello Members, Here is the reason why Theatre Organ Time on RTR-FM was not heard this Friday. It seems that Live365, the service that provides the streaming audio, have lost their ISP. Their recorded message explains they are trying to find other providers who can handle their high volume of streaming audio, and they hope to be back soon. Jack Mintz Nor-Cal TOS
(back) Subject: Elect(r)ones From: "Ken Earl" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2001 23:25:39 -0000 Yamaha made the 'Electone' range of electronic (regardless of whether analogue or digital) organs. Mr Compton made the 'Electrone' electro-static organ 2 and 3 manual electronic organ. Mr Compton also made the 'Melotone' and 'Melophone' electro-static = additions for Pipeorgans (Melotone also being used as the name of the 2 and 3 manual organs as well) Mr Compton also made the 'Theatrone' eletro-static electronic organ in 2 = and 3 manual versions. KE
(back) Subject: Re: RTR FM From: "Greg Corbett" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 10:08:51 -0800 Thanks Mack, I was wondering where they went. Their feed has been unreliable, but better than nothing, which is what we had last night.
(back) Subject: Re: RTR FM From: "Bob North" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 12:04:15 -0800 At 10:08 AM 12/8/01 -0800, you wrote: >Thanks Mack, I was wondering where they went. Their feed has been >unreliable, but better than nothing, which is what we had last night. > > >I missed RTR last night too, but switched to Wisconsin Public Radio and >heard "Pipedreams" instead, they are on about the same time. Nice program = >of Christmast music too. I hope RTR makes it back on for next week, the >new hosts are doing a nice job.
(back) Subject: Re: Tuners and Tuning From: "pat and ian" <email@example.com> Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2001 06:50:03 +1030 Thanks Roy, I hope other subscribers will enjoy the TuneLab website as much as I did. A must for all if you want to be in tune. Ian. > From: Roy Redman <firstname.lastname@example.org> > Reply-To: "PipeChat" <email@example.com> > Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2001 20:16:56 -0600 > To: PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu, Pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: Tuners and Tuning > > My piano tuner friend at SMU just called to my attention the fact that > there is now a > TuneLab Pocket (for the Pocket PC). Robert Scott has much other good > information on > his website, including data on pitch changes and calibration of tuning > forks. For any of > you that are interested, this can be accessed at > http//www.tunelab-world.com/ >
(back) Subject: Re: Choir Goes Hollywood From: "douglas morgan" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 12:48:03 -0800 (PST) Where is this Worthington United Methodist Church? --- Wuxuzusu@aol.com wrote: > Greetings all, > > Several months ago the Worthington (OH) United > Methodist Church choir and > organist presented "Choir Goes Hollywood" during > which organist Bill Haller > accompanied a silent film in the sanctuary on an > Allen 3 manual theatre organ > rented for that very purpose. He also showed clips > of various film musicals > with the sound turned down, and accompanied assorted > choir members while they > provided the vocals for the movies. For example, one > male singer and Haller > at the organ performed while Gene Kelly did "Dancing > In The Rain" silently on > the screen. The sanctuary was nearly filled with an > appreciative audience. > > Well, for those who missed it first time around, the > choir is doing it again. > > "Choir Goes Hollywood II" will be presented June 1, > 2002. Dessert (last time > it was strawberry shortcake) will be served at 6:30 > pm, and the musical > program (will popcorn be served again?) will begin > at 7:30 pm in the > sanctuary. Adults $5 & children under 12 free. > > Information: call the church at 614/885-5365 during > the week day. > > Musically, > Stan Krider > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send your FREE holiday greetings online! http://greetings.yahoo.com
(back) Subject: Where is Worthington? From: "The Schneider Family" <email@example.com> Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2001 15:12:29 -0600 douglas morgan wrote: > Where is this Worthington United Methodist Church? Worthington, OH. Northern suburb of Columbus. I know because I have friends who live there. Richard Schneider, PRES/CEO SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Pipe Organ Builders 41-43 Johnston St./P.O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org HOME EMAIL mailto:email@example.com SHOP EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com WEB PAGE URL