PipeChat Digest #2561 - Monday, December 10, 2001
 
Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
High Fidelity?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Electronic, and pipe organs....
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
RE: Pipes imitating other instruments
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
RE: Teaching organists to self-destruct
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
RE: Electronic, and pipe organs....
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
Re: High Fidelity?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Electronic, and pipe organs....
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:16:35 EST     --part1_135.5fe3756.2946d493_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/10/01 8:53:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, conwayb@sympatico.ca writes:     > Why can't you live and let live, you are never going to resolve this > discussion, and there are better things to talk about than this eternal > round! >   Gosh... You make it sound like I'm the only one keeping it going. We = have reached at least one newcomer in this round. He admitted that his ears = need training before he comes out so in favor of electronics. It also helps = to hear about the "advances" made the "industry" in their effort to produce a =   better instrument. It's one of the few topics that gets almost = everyone involved.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls   --part1_135.5fe3756.2946d493_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/10/01 8:53:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, conwayb@sympatico.ca writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Why can't you live = and let live, you are never going to resolve this discussion, and there = are better things to talk about than this eternal round! <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Gosh... You make it sound like I'm the only one keeping it going. = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;We have reached at least one newcomer in this round. = &nbsp;He admitted that his ears need training before he comes out so in = favor of electronics. &nbsp;&nbsp;It also helps to hear about the = "advances" made the "industry" in their effort to produce a better = instrument. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It's one of the few topics that gets = almost everyone involved. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls</FONT></HTML>   --part1_135.5fe3756.2946d493_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:17:46 EST     --part1_2b.1fc0f2d0.2946d4da_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/10/01 9:48:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes:     > Bruce, I never turn down a good argument! Maybe I should have been the > lawyer!!! >   I think it would be great fun to be a litigator. It sure would be nice = if we had been taught about some options early on!   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls   --part1_2b.1fc0f2d0.2946d4da_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/10/01 9:48:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Bruce, I never = turn down a good argument! Maybe I should have been the <BR>lawyer!!! <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I think it would be great fun to be a litigator. &nbsp;&nbsp;It sure = would be nice if we had been taught about some options early on! &nbsp; <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls</FONT></HTML>   --part1_2b.1fc0f2d0.2946d4da_boundary--  
(back) Subject: High Fidelity? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:18:34 EST   In a message dated 12/10/01 8:23:07 PM, chercapa@enter.net writes:   << To make music from the most awful instrument is what it is all about = and imagine what it would sound like at Riverside or Wanamaker's, or Longwood Gardens. I sit at my old (20 plus years) Allen, close my eyes and imagine what Pachabel's "Morning Star" would sound like on the above. >>   Any spouse will tell you that playing one organ and fantasizing that it's really another is tantamount to infidelity...  
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:00:45 EST     --part1_175.8dae47.2946deed_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     > but I've heard several organ (finally) up close and personal, and there = was > similarity of sound, but they did not sound much like the recordings.   Could this be because microphones are placed high in the air, whereas our =   ears are at most 6' from the ground?   I know 'tis true of the organ at my church. It sounds quite different on recording.   Neil B   --part1_175.8dae47.2946deed_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">but I've heard = several organ (finally) up close and personal, and there was similarity of = sound, but they did not sound much like the recordings. </FONT><FONT = COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" = LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Could this be because microphones are placed high in the air, = &nbsp;whereas our ears are at most 6' from the ground? <BR> <BR>I know 'tis true of the organ at my church. &nbsp;It sounds quite = different on recording. <BR> <BR>Neil B</FONT></HTML>   --part1_175.8dae47.2946deed_boundary--  
(back) Subject: RE: Pipes imitating other instruments From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:17:51 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0054_01C181C8.822FD660 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Bruce,   Interesting point. However, isn't it true that organbuilders aren't attempting to imitate the real orchestral instruments, but rather name = them as that's what they most sound like? I mean, in the current debate, = they're saying that electronics CLAIM to be the "real thing" (which by the way, = can you folks lighten up a little? -- with all that's going on in the world, there are more important things to be worrying over). However, I would hestitate to say that pipemakers are trying to make the pipes sound like = the real thing. For instance, a trumpet stop does indeed sound like a trumpet...to a point. But, play a real trumpet and follow the same line = in echo with an organ trumpet...still quite a difference can be heard. Same for clarinets, oboes, etc. It probably becomes a matter of harmonics, no?   I'm not disputing your point, Bruce, but rather raising a question. Also, here's something from the category "Things that make you go "hmmm"".....if the very first organ had been electronic, would we be saying that pipe organs were a poor imitation??? Something to ponder.   Bud said it best....we do the best we can with what we GOT. If you insist that the church must have a pipe organ instead of an electronic, then fork over the bucks. For me, I personally would prefer a pipe organ, and = luckily the last three positions I've held have had them. The first two sucked royally...a bad Schlicker and a bad Wicks. Believe me when I say...a = decent electronic would have made playing a lot more enjoyable.   Regards, and happy holidays...I'm signing off this thread now. :-)   Jeff -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Cremona502@cs.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 5:58 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct     In a message dated 12/10/01 6:17:34 PM Eastern Standard Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes:       Sounds as if you are saying the pipe organ is not a real instrument. B.E.   > mitate and produce the sound from another real instrument, not = record and reproduce artificially. There IS a difference.       Nope..... What I was trying to say is that the pipe organ imitates other instruments such as the clarinet or english horn, viola da gamba, or = flute, by using another "real" instrument.... a pipe. Whereas the "other = guys" simply record or simulate and reproduce without the use of another "real" acoustical instrument.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0054_01C181C8.822FD660 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2>Bruce,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2>Interesting point.&nbsp; However, isn't it true that =3D organbuilders aren't=3D20 attempting to imitate the real orchestral instruments, but rather name =3D them as=3D20 that's what they most sound like?&nbsp; I mean, in the current debate, =3D they're=3D20 saying that electronics CLAIM to be the "real thing" (which by the way, = =3D can you=3D20 folks lighten up a little?&nbsp;-- with all that's going on in the =3D world, there=3D20 are more important things to be worrying over).&nbsp; However, I would =3D hestitate=3D20 to say that pipemakers are trying to make the pipes sound like the = real=3D20 thing.&nbsp; For instance, a trumpet stop does indeed sound like a =3D trumpet...to=3D20 a point.&nbsp;&nbsp; But, play a real trumpet and follow the same line =3D in echo=3D20 with an organ trumpet...still quite a difference can be heard.&nbsp; =3D Same for=3D20 clarinets, oboes, etc.&nbsp; It probably becomes a matter of = harmonics,=3D20 no?&nbsp; </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>I'm=3D20 not disputing your point, Bruce, but rather raising a question.&nbsp; =3D Also,=3D20 here's something from the category "Things that make you go =3D "hmmm"".....if the=3D20 very first organ had been electronic, would we be saying that pipe =3D organs were a=3D20 poor imitation???&nbsp; Something to ponder.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>Bud=3D20 said it best....we do the best we can with what we GOT.&nbsp; If you =3D insist that=3D20 the church must have a pipe organ instead of an electronic, then fork =3D over the=3D20 bucks.&nbsp; For me, I personally would prefer a pipe organ, and luckily = =3D the=3D20 last three positions I've held have had them.&nbsp; The first two sucked = =3D   royally...a bad Schlicker and a bad Wicks.&nbsp; Believe me when I =3D say...a=3D20 decent electronic would have made playing a lot more=3D20 enjoyable.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2>Regards, and happy holidays...I'm signing off this thread = now.=3D20 :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D040351204-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2>Jeff</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid"> <DIV class=3D3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3D3Dltr align=3D3Dleft><FONT =3D face=3D3DTahoma=3D20 size=3D3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =3D pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]<B>On Behalf Of=3D20 </B>Cremona502@cs.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 10, 2001 = 5:58=3D20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> pipechat@pipechat.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Teaching = =3D   organists to self-destruct<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT=3D20 face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D3D2>In a message dated 12/10/01 = =3D 6:17:34 PM=3D20 Eastern Standard Time, elmsr@albanyis.com.au writes: <BR><BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=3D20 TYPE=3D3D"CITE">Sounds as if you are saying the pipe organ is not a real = =3D   instrument. <BR>B.E. <BR><BR>&gt; mitate and produce the sound from = =3D another=3D20 real instrument, not record and reproduce artificially. =3D &nbsp;&nbsp;There IS=3D20 a difference. <BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#000000 =3D size=3D3D3=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 =3D face=3D3DArial=3D20 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>Nope..... What I = was =3D trying to say=3D20 is that the pipe organ imitates other instruments such as the clarinet = =3D or=3D20 english horn, viola da gamba, or flute, by using another "real" =3D instrument....=3D20 a pipe. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Whereas the "other guys" simply record = =3D or=3D20 simulate and reproduce without the use of another "real" acoustical=3D20 instrument. <BR><BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~=3D20 &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the =3D Beagle's Nest=3D20 ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, =3D Molly,=3D20 and Dewi <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at=3D20 &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;and =3D wander=3D20 through the Mall Without Walls</FONT> =3D </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0054_01C181C8.822FD660--    
(back) Subject: RE: Teaching organists to self-destruct From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:18:53 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0058_01C181C8.A6966140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Amen.   Why can't you live and let live, you are never going to resolve this discussion, and there are better things to talk about than this eternal round!   Bob Conway   PS: who said we ARE trying to resolve it? It's a discussion.     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0058_01C181C8.A6966140 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D010261804-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2>Amen.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D010261804-11122001></SPAN><SPAN =3D class=3D3D010261804-11122001><FONT=3D20 face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D010261804-11122001>&nbsp;</SPAN>Why can't you live = =3D and let=3D20 live, you are never going to resolve this discussion, and there are =3D better=3D20 things to talk about than this eternal round!<BR><BR>Bob =3D Conway<BR><BR><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D010261804-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>PS:&nbsp; who=3D20 said we ARE trying to resolve it?&nbsp; It's a=3D20 discussion.&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D010261804-11122001>&nbsp;</SPAN></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0058_01C181C8.A6966140--    
(back) Subject: RE: Electronic, and pipe organs.... From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 22:22:19 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_005C_01C181C9.2185A1E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Could be the engineer. A lot can be done to make it sound as close as possible. Handbell recordings are probably one of the hardest to edit, = from what I've been told, and I've heard some darned good CDs of bell groups. I'm sure the organ is no different. It's a curious point about the height of the microphones. But you dn't mention, Neil, if the organ in question = is in the loft, or closer to floor-level? The organ should fill the room, = but in some rooms, indeed, you get a different sound depending on where you = sit. For example, I've heard that the Mormon Tabernacle in SLC, Utah, has some curious anomalies because of the roof. Depending on where you sit, you might end up hearing a 4' stop BEHIND you because of the "reflection" of sound. Maybe we could move this discussion into the best ways to record organ music? :-)   Peace and Joy, Jeff   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Innkawgneeto@cs.com Sent: Monday, December 10, 2001 10:01 PM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Re: Electronic, and pipe organs....         but I've heard several organ (finally) up close and personal, and = there was similarity of sound, but they did not sound much like the recordings.     Could this be because microphones are placed high in the air, whereas = our ears are at most 6' from the ground?   I know 'tis true of the organ at my church. It sounds quite different = on recording.   Neil B   ------=3D_NextPart_000_005C_01C181C9.2185A1E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D090411904-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>Could=3D20 be the engineer.&nbsp; A lot can be done to make it sound as close as=3D20 possible.&nbsp; Handbell recordings are probably one of the hardest to =3D edit,=3D20 from what I've been told, and I've heard some darned good CDs of bell=3D20 groups.&nbsp; I'm sure the organ is no different.&nbsp; It's a curious =3D point=3D20 about the height of the microphones.&nbsp; But you dn't mention, Neil, =3D if the=3D20 organ in question is in the loft, or closer to floor-level?&nbsp; The =3D organ=3D20 should fill the room, but in some rooms, indeed, you get a different =3D sound=3D20 depending on where you sit.&nbsp; For example, I've heard that the =3D Mormon=3D20 Tabernacle in SLC, Utah, has some curious anomalies because of the =3D roof.&nbsp;=3D20 Depending on where you sit, you might end up hearing a 4' stop BEHIND =3D you=3D20 because of the "reflection" of sound.&nbsp; Maybe we could move this =3D discussion=3D20 into the best ways to record organ music? :-)</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D090411904-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D090411904-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D size=3D3D2>Peace=3D20 and Joy,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D090411904-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial = color=3D3D#0000ff =3D   size=3D3D2>Jeff</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D3D090411904-11122001></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid"> <DIV class=3D3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3D3Dltr align=3D3Dleft><FONT =3D face=3D3DTahoma=3D20 size=3D3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> =3D pipechat@pipechat.org=3D20 [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]<B>On Behalf Of=3D20 </B>Innkawgneeto@cs.com<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, December 10, 2001 =3D 10:01=3D20 PM<BR><B>To:</B> pipechat@pipechat.org<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: =3D Electronic, and=3D20 pipe organs....<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT =3D   size=3D3D2><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=3D20 TYPE=3D3D"CITE">but I've heard several organ (finally) up close and =3D personal,=3D20 and there was similarity of sound, but they did not sound much like = =3D the=3D20 recordings. </FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#000000 = =3D size=3D3D3=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 =3D face=3D3DArial=3D20 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D2 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><BR>Could this be = =3D because microphones=3D20 are placed high in the air, &nbsp;whereas our ears are at most 6' from = =3D the=3D20 ground? <BR><BR>I know 'tis true of the organ at my church. &nbsp;It =3D sounds=3D20 quite different on recording. <BR><BR>Neil B</FONT>=3D20 </FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_005C_01C181C9.2185A1E0--    
(back) Subject: Re: High Fidelity? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:21:01 EST     --part1_c9.19f49e8e.2946f1bd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/10/01 10:24:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes:     > << To make music from the most awful instrument is what it is all about = and > imagine what it would sound like at Riverside or Wanamaker's, or = Longwood > Gardens. I sit at my old (20 plus years) Allen, close my eyes and = imagine > what Pachabel's "Morning Star" would sound like on the above. >> >   That's wonderful rhetoric, but in reality, dealing with musical = satisfaction, it just doesn't hold up. But it I thought that I would spend the rest of = my life playing unpleasant instruments, I quit playing without the slightest hesitation or regret. And I don't think there are many people around who love the organ and its music more than I do, and that includes church = music.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls   --part1_c9.19f49e8e.2946f1bd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/10/01 10:24:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">&lt;&lt; To make = music from the most awful instrument is what it is all about and <BR>imagine what it would sound like at Riverside or Wanamaker's, or = Longwood <BR>Gardens. I sit at my old (20 plus years) Allen, close my eyes and = imagine <BR>what Pachabel's "Morning Star" would sound like on the above. &gt;&gt; <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>That's wonderful rhetoric, but in reality, dealing with musical = satisfaction, it just doesn't hold up. &nbsp;&nbsp;But it I thought that I = would spend the rest of my life playing unpleasant instruments, I quit = playing without the slightest hesitation or regret. &nbsp;And I don't = think there are many people around who love the organ and its music more = than I do, and that includes church music. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls</FONT></HTML>   --part1_c9.19f49e8e.2946f1bd_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Electronic, and pipe organs.... From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:23:35 EST     --part1_155.5911510.2946f257_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/10/01 11:01:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, Innkawgneeto@cs.com writes:     > Could this be because microphones are placed high in the air, whereas = our > ears are at most 6' from the ground? > > It's because the recordings are altered, improved, tweaked and = monkeyed-with to "improve" the sound according to the recording technician's preference; =   and then re-produced through amps and speakers.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls   --part1_155.5911510.2946f257_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/10/01 11:01:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, Innkawgneeto@cs.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Could this be = because microphones are placed high in the air, &nbsp;whereas our ears are = at most 6' from the ground? <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">It's because the recordings are altered, = improved, tweaked and monkeyed-with to "improve" the sound according to = the recording technician's preference; and then re-produced through amps = and speakers. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls</FONT></HTML>   --part1_155.5911510.2946f257_boundary--