PipeChat Digest #2562 - Tuesday, December 11, 2001
 
Re: Pipes imitating other instruments
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Re: Re: High Fidelity?
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
RE: High Fidelity?
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
RE: Electronic, and pipe organs....
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
RE: Pipes imitating other instruments
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
Re: absorbent stuff
  by "pat and ian" <patian@senet.com.au>
Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct
  by "pat and ian" <patian@senet.com.au>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Pipes imitating other instruments From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:37:20 EST     --part1_146.61c1517.2946f590_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/10/01 11:17:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, reedstop@prodigy.net writes:     > However, isn't it true that organbuilders aren't attempting to imitate = the > real orchestral instruments, but rather name them as that's what they = most > sound like?   I think the names of organ stops are in many instances for convenience. =   Flute is a general designation for sound much like "jello" is for food. = Add the adjective rohr, chimney, spitz, holz, etc., and the builder is giving = a description of the construction and tonal characteristics. Some stops = are very imitative.... clarinets and oboes for example, and they are = especially successful because, much like flutes, the sound is produced in a way very similar to their orchestral counterpart. Trumpets are a unique organ = sound and are more akin to very angry oboes rather than brass instruments.   > from the category "Things that make you go "hmmm"".....if the very > first organ had been electronic, would we be saying that pipe organs = were a > poor imitation??? Something to ponder. >   I think this is a questionable example, much like the question, "which = came first, the chicken or the eggplant?"     > Bud said it best....we do the best we can with what we GOT. If you = insist > that the church must have a pipe organ instead of an electronic, then = fork > over the bucks. For me, I personally would prefer a pipe organ, and > luckily the last three positions I've held have had them. The first two =   > sucked royally...a bad Schlicker and a bad Wicks. Believe me when I > say...a decent electronic would have made playing a lot more enjoyable. > Again, "do the best we can with what we've got" is nice rhetoric, but = enough is enough. And placing all of the responsibility of paying for the = organ on the organist is totally unrealistic and not a valid option in most = cases. I would have to hear the above-mentioned organs that "sucked royally". = I can't imagine a Schlicker that bad and have heard some really questionable =   Wicks organs, but not that I would have replaced with an electronic. The =   above organs might not have been "to your taste", but my guess is that = this is an overstatement to make a point (no offense intended!). I think the idea of small organs being disregarded just because of their lack of size = is one of our biggest problems. Here is where the artistry of the organist = is really called to the test.   > Regards, and happy holidays...I'm signing off this thread now. :-) > I don't know why. It's been a good thread with alot of new information exchanged and some new ideas. I don't see the sense in making a point = and then running away.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls   --part1_146.61c1517.2946f590_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/10/01 11:17:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, reedstop@prodigy.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">However, isn't it true that organbuilders aren't attempting to = imitate the real orchestral instruments, but rather name them as that's = what they most sound like? &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>I think the names of organ stops are in many instances for = convenience. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Flute is a general designation for sound = much like "jello" is for food. &nbsp;&nbsp;Add the adjective rohr, = chimney, spitz, holz, etc., and the builder is giving a description of the construction and tonal = characteristics. &nbsp;&nbsp;Some stops are very imitative.... clarinets = and oboes for example, and they are especially successful because, much = like flutes, the sound is produced in a way very similar to their = orchestral counterpart. &nbsp;&nbsp;Trumpets are a unique organ sound and = are more akin to very angry oboes rather than brass instruments. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">....<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE = style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: = 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> from the category "Things that make you go = "hmmm"".....if the very first organ had been electronic, would we be = saying that pipe organs were a poor imitation??? &nbsp;Something to = ponder.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I think this is a questionable example, much = like the question, "which came first, the chicken or the eggplant?" = </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">Bud said it best....we do the best we can with what we GOT. &nbsp;If = you insist that the church must have a pipe organ instead of an = electronic, then fork over the bucks. &nbsp;For me, I personally would = prefer a pipe organ, and luckily the last three positions I've held have = had them. &nbsp;The first two sucked royally...a bad Schlicker and a bad = Wicks. &nbsp;Believe me when I say...a decent electronic would have made = playing a lot more enjoyable.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>Again, "do the best we can with what we've got" is nice rhetoric, but = enough is enough. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;And placing all of the responsibility = of paying for the organ on the organist is totally unrealistic and not a = valid option in most cases. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I would have to hear the = above-mentioned organs that "sucked royally". &nbsp;&nbsp;I can't imagine = a Schlicker that bad and have heard some really questionable Wicks organs, = but not that I would have replaced with an electronic. &nbsp;&nbsp;The = above organs might not have been "to your taste", but my guess is that = this is an overstatement to make a point (no offense intended!). = &nbsp;&nbsp;I think the idea of small organs being disregarded just = because of their lack of size is one of our &nbsp;biggest problems. = &nbsp;&nbsp;Here is where the artistry of the organist is really called to = the test. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">Regards, and happy holidays...I'm signing off this thread now. = :-)</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>I don't know why. &nbsp;It's been a good thread with alot of new = information exchanged and some new ideas. &nbsp;&nbsp;I don't see the = sense in making a point and then running away. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls</FONT></HTML>   --part1_146.61c1517.2946f590_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Re: Re: High Fidelity? From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:40:17 EST   Bruce, please read ENTIRE postings before reacting...  
(back) Subject: RE: High Fidelity? From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:54:25 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_007B_01C181D5.FF1B9760 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit     That's wonderful rhetoric, but in reality, dealing with musical satisfaction, it just doesn't hold up. But it I thought that I would = spend the rest of my life playing unpleasant instruments, I quit playing without the slightest hesitation or regret. And I don't think there are many = people around who love the organ and its music more than I do, and that includes church music.   Bruce, that's really a sad testimony to one's talent that God has given = you. Let's hope it never comes to that. What if every preacher said that he or she would never speak in a congregation where _____ (fill in your own negative aspect.) Or, what if Jesus said I'm only going to minister and heal those who __________ . So, only people in churches with decent instruments should be blessed with our abilities? Of course, playing the devil's advocate, there is our own personal ministry, too, I suppose. = But, I think if the congregation is really warm and caring, I could deal with inadequacy...in the hopes that some day....:-)   Jeff     ------=3D_NextPart_000_007B_01C181D5.FF1B9760 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"> <DIV><BR><FONT face=3D3DArial><FONT size=3D3D2>That's wonderful rhetoric, = =3D but in=3D20 reality, dealing with musical satisfaction, it just doesn't hold up.=3D20 &nbsp;&nbsp;But it I thought that I would spend the rest of my life =3D playing=3D20 unpleasant instruments, I quit playing without the slightest hesitation = =3D or=3D20 regret. &nbsp;And I don't think there are many people around who love =3D the organ=3D20 and its music more than I do, and that includes church =3D music.&nbsp;<BR><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D570585105-11122001><FONT=3D20 color=3D3D#0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial><FONT size=3D3D2><SPAN =3D class=3D3D570585105-11122001><FONT=3D20 color=3D3D#0000ff>Bruce, that's really a sad testimony to one's talent =3D that God has=3D20 given you.&nbsp; Let's hope it never comes to that.&nbsp; What if every = =3D preacher=3D20 said that he or she would&nbsp;never speak in a congregation where _____ = =3D (fill=3D20 in your own&nbsp;negative aspect.)&nbsp; Or, what if Jesus said I'm only = =3D going=3D20 to minister and heal those who __________ .&nbsp; So, only people in =3D churches=3D20 with decent instruments should be blessed with =3D our&nbsp;abilities?&nbsp;&nbsp;Of=3D20 course, playing the devil's advocate, there is our own personal =3D ministry, too, I=3D20 suppose.&nbsp;&nbsp;But, I think if the congregation is really warm and = =3D caring,=3D20 I could deal with inadequacy...in the hopes that some=3D20 day....:-)</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial><FONT size=3D3D2><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D570585105-11122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial><FONT color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D570585105-11122001>Jeff</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial><FONT color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D570585105-11122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT><FONT = face=3D3DArial><FONT =3D   size=3D3D2><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D570585105-11122001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY= =3D ></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_007B_01C181D5.FF1B9760--    
(back) Subject: RE: Electronic, and pipe organs.... From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:55:11 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_007F_01C181D6.1ABD90E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Could this be because microphones are placed high in the air, whereas our ears are at most 6' from the ground?       It's because the recordings are altered, improved, tweaked and monkeyed-with to "improve" the sound according to the recording = technician's preference; and then re-produced through amps and speakers.     All the more reason for the organist being recorded to listen and have input and, even more preferably, final say in what's right.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_007F_01C181D6.1ABD90E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2>Could this be because microphones are = =3D placed high=3D20 in the air, &nbsp;whereas our ears are at most 6' from the ground?=3D20 <BR><BR></FONT></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px = =3D solid"><FONT=3D20 lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D3 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"> <DIV><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 =3D FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT=3D20 face=3D3DArial><FONT size=3D3D2>It's because the recordings are altered, = =3D improved,=3D20 tweaked and monkeyed-with to "improve" the sound according to the =3D recording=3D20 technician's preference; and then re-produced through amps and=3D20 speakers.&nbsp;<BR><SPAN class=3D3D380355405-11122001><FONT=3D20 color=3D3D#0000ff>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D2><SPAN =3D class=3D3D380355405-11122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D2><SPAN class=3D3D380355405-11122001><FONT = color=3D3D#0000ff>All =3D the more reason=3D20 for&nbsp;the organist being recorded to listen and have =3D input&nbsp;and, even=3D20 more preferably, final say in what's right.&nbsp;=3D20 =3D </FONT>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML= =3D >   ------=3D_NextPart_000_007F_01C181D6.1ABD90E0--    
(back) Subject: RE: Pipes imitating other instruments From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:59:37 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0087_01C181D6.B9179740 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   The above organs might not have been "to your taste", but my guess is = that this is an overstatement to make a point (no offense intended!). I think the idea of small organs being disregarded just because of their lack of size is one of our biggest problems. Here is where the artistry of the organist is really called to the test.   Bruce, indeed I have to backtrack on my previous statement...b.ecause...when I was playing at these particular churches, I was a youngster (17 for the Schlicker, and 22-24 for the Wicks...although there are those that can uphold my Wicks statement on this particular instrument.) My home congregation has a very NICE Schlicker, and to go = play that other one was like night and day. The "bad" Schlicker had some good ranks, but not the tonal resources needed by me at the time. Even worse, the 1-12 of the 16' in the pedal were outside the case, so it had decent bass. BUT...13-32...were INSIDE the case (as was everything else), and = the bass was GONE when you went above the low B on the pedals. Also, there is one row of tilt tablets. Above each tablet are two tiny little drawknobs. The tablets were Piston #1, the bottom row of knobs were Piston #2, and = the top were #3. MISERABLE. For a room the size it is, that organ was inadequate. But, I digress.   Jeff     ------=3D_NextPart_000_0087_01C181D6.B9179740 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D3=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF">&nbsp;&nbsp;The above organs might not have been = =3D "to your=3D20 taste", but my guess is that this is an overstatement to make a point =3D (no=3D20 offense intended!). &nbsp;&nbsp;I think the idea of small organs = being=3D20 disregarded just because of their lack of size is one of our =3D &nbsp;biggest=3D20 problems. &nbsp;&nbsp;Here is where the artistry of the organist is =3D really=3D20 called to the test.&nbsp;<BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 =3D size=3D3D2=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"></FONT><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 = size=3D3D3=3D20 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><BR><SPAN class=3D3D520005605-11122001><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial=3D20 color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2>&nbsp;Bruce, indeed&nbsp;I have to backtrack = on =3D my previous=3D20 statement...b.ecause...when I was playing&nbsp;at these particular =3D churches, I=3D20 was a youngster (17 for the Schlicker, and&nbsp;22-24 for the =3D Wicks...although=3D20 there are those&nbsp;that can uphold my Wicks statement on this =3D particular=3D20 instrument.)&nbsp; My home congregation has a very NICE&nbsp;Schlicker, = =3D and to=3D20 go play that other one was like night and day.&nbsp; The =3D "bad"&nbsp;Schlicker=3D20 had some good ranks, but not&nbsp;the tonal resources needed by me at =3D the=3D20 time.&nbsp; Even worse, the 1-12 of the 16' in the pedal were outside =3D the case,=3D20 so&nbsp;it had decent bass.&nbsp; BUT...13-32...were INSIDE the case (as = =3D was=3D20 everything else), and the bass was GONE when you went above the low B on = =3D the=3D20 pedals.&nbsp; Also, there&nbsp;is one&nbsp;row of tilt tablets.&nbsp; =3D Above each=3D20 tablet are&nbsp;two tiny little drawknobs.&nbsp; The tablets were=3D20 Piston&nbsp;#1, the bottom row of knobs were&nbsp;Piston #2, and the=3D20 top&nbsp;were #3.&nbsp; MISERABLE.&nbsp; For a room the size it is, that = =3D organ=3D20 was inadequate.&nbsp; But, I digress.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D3 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D520005605-11122001></SPAN></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D3 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D520005605-11122001><FONT face=3D3DArial color=3D3D#0000ff=3D20 size=3D3D2>Jeff</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 size=3D3D3 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D520005605-11122001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0087_01C181D6.B9179740--    
(back) Subject: Re: absorbent stuff From: "pat and ian" <patian@senet.com.au> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:48:44 +1030   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --MS_Mac_OE_3090934127_99427_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit     Why don't you stick to your usual .......? Please don't try to use this = list to curry favour with crass jokes. It doesn't become you! There are plenty other websites for skilful humour. Ian.   From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:20:34 +1300 To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: absorbent stuff     My organ teacher Maxwell Fernie always used to say you should carpet prostitutes' boudoirs, not churches. And the response from anyone = listening was always, "You should know, Max." :-))) Ross         --MS_Mac_OE_3090934127_99427_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: absorbent stuff</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <BR> Why don't you stick to your usual .......? Please don't try to use this = lis=3D t to curry favour with crass jokes. It doesn't become you! There are = plenty =3D other websites for skilful humour.<BR> Ian.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <B>From: </B>&quot;Ross &amp; Lynda Wards&quot; = &lt;TheShieling@xtra.co.nz&=3D gt;<BR> <B>Reply-To: </B>&quot;PipeChat&quot; &lt;pipechat@pipechat.org&gt;<BR> <B>Date: </B>Mon, 10 Dec 2001 12:20:34 +1300<BR> <B>To: </B>&quot;PipeChat&quot; &lt;pipechat@pipechat.org&gt;<BR> <B>Subject: </B>absorbent stuff<BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>My organ teacher Maxwell Fernie always used to say you should = c=3D arpet prostitutes' boudoirs, not churches. And the response from anyone = list=3D ening was always, &quot;You should know, Max.&quot; &nbsp;&nbsp;:-)))<BR> Ross<BR> <BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </BODY> </HTML>     --MS_Mac_OE_3090934127_99427_MIME_Part--    
(back) Subject: Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct From: "pat and ian" <patian@senet.com.au> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:53:08 +1030       Great to hear from you Cheryl. I was beginning to wonder what had happened to you.   Season's greetings from all of us.   Ian.   > From: Cheryl C Hart <info@copemanhart.co.uk> > Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 19:18:48 +0000 > To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > Subject: Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct > > >> >>> How true, for example, pipe organs have the oboe and string stops, = that >>> imitate the sound of the real instruments. >> >> Imitate and produce the sound from another real instrument, not record = and >> reproduce artificially. There IS a difference. > > Ahhhh, Bruce - you've opened a door and I cannot resist entering! :-) = I > would like to comment on the "record and reproduce" aspect. > > Firstly, though, I want to say - and I do not include Bruce, or most = others > on this list, in this category - that there are plenty of loud talkers > around who use prejudices instead of ears; anybody who condemns all > electronics out of hand, without hearing a good example, is spoiling his > own case by grotesque overstatement. There are many, many pipe organs > around on which no organist would want to play a service, let alone give = a > recital, but I would not use that as evidence to prove that there is > anything wrong with pipe organs per se. > > The worst electronic organs are, ipso facto, the most abundant - and = whilst > one understands that they make a lot of enemies, one should not = extrapolate > from these particulars to a general condemnation of all electronics. = Some > of us - not very many, to be sure - do NOT use recordings (aka = "samples"), > but use much care and a great deal of experience of pipe organs to make = a > worthy substitute in cases where an adequate pipe organ is out of the > question, for reasons of space or finance. We do this by using very > expensive real-time computing hardware which gives us as much control = over > every aspect of every note of every stop as that of a pipe organ > voicer; there is as much need for artistry in this process as there is = in > voicing a pipe organ, and we are in fact "producing" (creating) rather = than > "reproducing" organ sound. We have had far too many first-rate = organists > take our instruments seriously to feel that we have to wear sackcloth = and > ashes. > >> Sorry, but don't talk rubbish - pipes are not fashioned to copy or = imitate >> other instruments. There is no other sound, anywhere, similar to a >> Principal, or a Rohr Flute, or a Dulciana, let alone Mixtures, = mutations and >> things like a Sesquialtera or a Cornet. Imitation? Nope. > > I personally feel that it is no more a sin for us to use pipe organ = names > for our stops than it is for a pipe organ builder to name a stop > "orchestral oboe". Any self-respecting oboist would tell us all to get = lost. > > Seasonal and warm greetings to all. > > Cheryl > > > http://www.copemanhart.co.uk > > Copeman Hart & Company Ltd > Church Organ Builders > ENGLAND > > Registered in England No 696548