PipeChat Digest #2563 - Tuesday, December 11, 2001
 
Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct
  by "Cheryl C Hart" <info@copemanhart.co.uk>
Most Wonderfullest Small Organ
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Pipes imitating other instruments
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Justin Bischof Recital in NY
  by "Jonathan B. Hall" <jonahall@indiana.edu>
Re: Most Wonderfullest Small Organ
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
RE: High Fidelity?
  by "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu>
RE: Justin Bischof Recital in NY
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Re: absorbent stuff
  by "colin-hulme@bctalk.net" <colin-hulme@bctalk.net>
RE: PipeChat Digest #2559 - 12/10/01
  by "Alan Freed" <parishadmin@stlukesnyc.org>
Re: High Fidelity?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #2559 - 12/10/01
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
Re: High Fidelity?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Pipes imitating other instruments
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Teaching organists to self-destruct From: "Cheryl C Hart" <info@copemanhart.co.uk> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:28:37 +0000     >Great to hear from you Cheryl. I was beginning to wonder what had = happened >to you. > >Season's greetings from all of us. > >Ian.   Thank you, Ian. It's the usual story of not enough hours in the working day so, sadly, discussing organs with friends has to be low on my list of priorities. But I'm always here, lurking surreptitiously - and enjoying scanning (with my eyes and brain, not the machine) as much of the chat as = I can manage. :-)   Cheryl     http://www.copemanhart.co.uk   Copeman Hart & Company Ltd Church Organ Builders ENGLAND   Registered in England No 696548    
(back) Subject: Most Wonderfullest Small Organ From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 07:40:29 EST   Dear Folks:   Last communique before I board the plane, I think...   I played a spectacular 6-rank unit instrument in a single swellbox, = built by Kilgen in the 1920s. It was not a stock model, but certainly such = things could have been built as stock models. It was amazingly versatile, and provided all of the music (rather grandly) for a Presbyterian Church for three quarters of a century. Church members, organists, music directors, = and singers have come and gone during those 75 years, and nobody has = complained. The reason for its success is that it is so exquisitely musical, the = tonal finishing so careful, plus it ACTUALLY MOVES THE AIR IN THE ROOM. The acoustic is small; this is not some cavernous, marble Catholic edifice. It =   remains as "present" and beautiful at the back of the 200-seat room as it = is sitting right under the swell shutters (the organ is in a small case at = floor level, off to the side). Tonally, it is based upon a formula that works: the French Orgue de Choeur. When I first sat down to it, I was even a bit miffed there were = two strings, a cutting Gamba and a mild Ducliana, yet no Celeste. As I played, =   and understood the needs of that Church, I understood why the organ was designed that way. Anything electronic in that room sounds harsh, sterile, unnatural in = its "bigness," inappropriate, and somewhat foolish. Yet going full tilt, this little Kilgen and rock the room. The upshot? They finally saved up for a new grand piano, to replace the =   electronic piano they had purchased as a stopgap, but could not bear to listen to.   Sebastian Matthaus Gluck New York City  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes imitating other instruments From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:29:30 EST     --part1_177.8f86db.2947724a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Cremona writes:   > I think the idea of small organs being disregarded just because of = >their lack of size is one of our biggest problems. Here is where the = >artistry of the organist is really called to the test. <<   Definately! A point that I have maintained continuously, but in another context.   Best wishes, Jim Pitts     --part1_177.8f86db.2947724a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>Cremona writes: <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">&gt; I think the idea of small organs being = disregarded just because of &gt;their lack of size is one of our = &nbsp;biggest problems. &nbsp;&nbsp;Here is where the &gt;artistry of the = organist is really called to the test. &lt;&lt; <BR> <BR>Definately! &nbsp;A point that I have maintained continuously, but in = another context. <BR> <BR>Best wishes, <BR>Jim Pitts <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_177.8f86db.2947724a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Justin Bischof Recital in NY From: "Jonathan B. Hall" <jonahall@indiana.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 09:49:14 -0500   Hi--sorry to repeat this, but the first announcement went out a few weeks ago. Just wanted to remind you all that Justin Bischof, winner of the = 2000 AGO competition in improvisation, will be presenting a recital at The Church of the Epiphany, E. 74th St. and York Ave., this Sunday at 2:30 = PM--   *please note the time--2:30--most of our programs have been in the = evening.*   Dr. Bischof, a faculty member of the Manhattan School of Music, will improvise on beloved carols of the season, and we will have a chance to sing along!   I suspect he will also play "The World Awaiting the Savior," from Dupre's Passion Symphony. What an astute choice that is! Dupre improvised that piece in New York City in 1920 at Wanamaker's as the first movement of a symphony on familiar sacred melodies. Neat...   There is a suggested donation at the door; more information can be had at the church website, www.epiphanynyc.org or by calling 212-737-2720, x24.   Hope you can come! If you really want to spend a day doing Christmas at a lovely church in New York, come for our 11 AM service and Pageant--deliciously folksy for NYC, no Broadway producers or kick-lines = or ice skates involved--and have lunch with us and help us Green the church for Xmas...the recital will be a perfect conclusion to the day, and then you can pop into Bloomingdale's...   all best,   Jonathan      
(back) Subject: Re: Most Wonderfullest Small Organ From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 06:41:46 -0800   Sounds similar to the one I play. Room is live, seating 250 with a gallery at the rear. Organ has dulciana, gamba, lieblich gedecht, claribel and open diapason and a magnificent reed - a Horn from Rogers of the UK. The gamba, gedecht and horn are enclosed. All ranks except the horn have some unification. B.E.   TubaMagna@aol.com wrote: > > Dear Folks: > > Last communique before I board the plane, I think... > > I played a spectacular 6-rank unit instrument in a single swellbox, = built > by Kilgen in the 1920s. It was not a stock model, but certainly such = things > could have been built as stock models. It was amazingly versatile, and > provided all of the music (rather grandly) for a Presbyterian Church for > three quarters of a century. Church members, organists, music directors, = and > singers have come and gone during those 75 years, and nobody has = complained. > The reason for its success is that it is so exquisitely musical, the = tonal > finishing so careful, plus it ACTUALLY MOVES THE AIR IN THE ROOM. The > acoustic is small; this is not some cavernous, marble Catholic edifice. = It > remains as "present" and beautiful at the back of the 200-seat room as = it is  
(back) Subject: RE: High Fidelity? From: "Emmons, Paul" <pemmons@wcupa.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:37:12 -0500   >So, only people in churches with decent instruments should be blessed = with our abilities? Of course, playing the devil's advocate, there is our own personal ministry, too, I suppose. But, I think if the congregation is really warm and caring, I could deal with inadequacy.   Of course. I was just e-mailing Bruce yesterday about a position from = hell in my experience awhile back. I neglected to mention that, as it = happened, it had a small but excellent pipe organ by one of our most respected builders. From there I was delivered into a position with a miserable electronic so old that the keys didn't even line up properly. It reminded me of a photograph of something dating from the renaissance now in = serious need of restoration. But the rector, unlike the indecisive wimp from whom = I had fled, was one of the finest men I've ever worked for. He knew what he wanted: in his own words, "a class act on Sunday mornings." What a = relief! He also realized that the organ was a mess, and was determined to do something about it. On balance, I was delighted to be there, so I pretended, during services, that the organ was the most magnificent instrument in the world. The optimism, or imagination, or whatever gives = us the ability to ignore awfulness when we need to is a gift to be thankful for.   There are many considerations in whether we will accept a post or stay in it; but if the quality of the organ isn't one of them, then we are not = doing the church much of a service, because it's our job to care about it.   Paul >  
(back) Subject: RE: Justin Bischof Recital in NY From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 10:19:44 -0600   Dear all:   Having been to Epiphany a couple of times for services and a recital, I = can vouch for this event "as advertised." You'll come away enriched. And Bloomingdale's IS an easy stroll away.   Peter   -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan B. Hall [mailto:jonahall@indiana.edu] Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 8:49 AM To: pipechat@pipechat.org Subject: Justin Bischof Recital in NY     Hi--sorry to repeat this, but the first announcement went out a few weeks ago. Just wanted to remind you all that Justin Bischof, winner of the = 2000 AGO competition in improvisation, will be presenting a recital at The Church of the Epiphany, E. 74th St. and York Ave., this Sunday at 2:30 = PM--    
(back) Subject: Re: absorbent stuff From: "colin-hulme@bctalk.net" <colin-hulme@bctalk.net> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:05:19 +0000   Quite right! This list is about the organ. Any one who thinks that humour and the organ have anything in common has no place here! Lets keep the misery quotient as high as possible. As Desert Bob used to say, "Snarf, Snarf."   Colin.   pat and ian wrote: > > Why don't you stick to your usual .......? Please don't try to use this = list to curry favour with crass jokes. It doesn't become you! There are = plenty other websites for skilful humour. > Ian. > >  
(back) Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #2559 - 12/10/01 From: "Alan Freed" <parishadmin@stlukesnyc.org> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:20:49 -0500   -----Original Message----- From: Ken Earl [mailto:ken_earl01@hotmail.com]=20 Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #2559 - 12/10/01   but if you take any "average" pipe organ, around 60 per cent of its stop list will be in fact imitative of orchestral tonalities.   Ken     Ken, I think that might be true (certainly was 50 years ago or so). But who would want to "take any 'average' pipe organ"? We've got only 23 ranks, but I doubt that more than three are imitative/orchestral (trumpet, oboe, and maybe another somewhere). Well, the Zymbelstern, maybe. But it's REAL!   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: High Fidelity? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:30:56 EST     --part1_15c.59fbca7.2947aae0_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/11/01 12:45:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes:     > Bruce, please read ENTIRE postings before reacting... > I read this entire post and cannot fathom what you are talking about!   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls   --part1_15c.59fbca7.2947aae0_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/11/01 12:45:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, TubaMagna@aol.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Bruce, please read = ENTIRE postings before reacting... <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">I read this entire post and cannot fathom what = you are talking about! <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls</FONT></HTML>   --part1_15c.59fbca7.2947aae0_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #2559 - 12/10/01 From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:35:53 EST   Allan asks:     >But who would want to "take any 'average' pipe organ"? <<     Me! Are there any for taking?     Best wishes, Jim Pitts  
(back) Subject: Re: High Fidelity? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:40:43 EST     --part1_140.62b769f.2947ad2b_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/11/01 12:53:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, reedstop@prodigy.net writes:     > Bruce, that's really a sad testimony to one's talent that God has given = you. > Let's hope it never comes to that. What if every preacher said that he = or > she would never speak in a congregation where _____ (fill in your own > negative aspect.) Or, what if Jesus said I'm only going to minister and =   > heal those who __________ . So, only people in churches with decent > instruments should be blessed with our abilities? Of course, playing = the > devil's advocate, there is our own personal ministry, too, I suppose. = But, > I think if the congregation is really warm and caring, I could deal with =   >   Hmmm.. casting pearls before swine comes to mind!! A preacher can = preach anywhere, and carries the message and medium with him. The preacher's = tool is the Word of God. How many preachers would preach from a pulpit that made them sound like gremblin, or gave them a terrible speech impediment. =   Not many. By not filling in "your blanks" your examples cannot be dealt with. Jesus needed NOTHING to help his ministry. Let's remember, he = was perfect.   To expand one of your points, if churches without decent instruments were unable to have someone who really cared about their ministry serve them, perhaps they would make the necessary sacrifices. You don't see these = poor churches worshiping in buildings with leaky roofs and no carpet! There = are priorities. As long as people continue to cast their pearls before = swine, the swine will continue devouring them.   Jeff, I wish you well. It will be interesting to see how things have changed after you've laboured in the electrovineyard for thirty years.     Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls   --part1_140.62b769f.2947ad2b_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/11/01 12:53:24 AM Eastern Standard Time, reedstop@prodigy.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">Bruce, that's really a sad testimony to one's talent that God has = given you. &nbsp;Let's hope it never comes to that. &nbsp;What if every = preacher said that he or she would never speak in a congregation where = _____ (fill in your own negative aspect.) &nbsp;Or, what if Jesus said I'm = only going to minister and heal those who __________ . &nbsp;So, only = people in churches with decent instruments should be blessed with our = abilities? &nbsp;Of course, playing the devil's advocate, there is our own = personal ministry, too, I suppose. &nbsp;But, I think if the congregation = is really warm and caring, I could deal with inadequacy...in the hopes = that some day....:-)</BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Hmmm.. casting pearls before swine comes to mind!! = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;A preacher can preach anywhere, and carries the = message and medium with him. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The preacher's tool is the = Word of God. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;How many preachers would preach from a = pulpit that made them sound like gremblin, or gave them a terrible speech = impediment. &nbsp;Not many. &nbsp;&nbsp;By not filling in "your blanks" = your examples cannot be dealt with. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Jesus needed NOTHING = to help his ministry. &nbsp;&nbsp;Let's remember, he was perfect. = &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR> <BR>To expand one of your points, if churches without decent instruments = were unable to have someone who really cared about their ministry serve them, perhaps they would make the = necessary sacrifices. &nbsp;&nbsp;You don't see these poor churches = worshiping in buildings with leaky roofs and no carpet! &nbsp;&nbsp;There = are priorities. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;As long as people continue to cast their = pearls before swine, the swine will continue devouring them. <BR> <BR>Jeff, I wish you well. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It will be interesting to see = how things have changed after you've laboured in the electrovineyard for = thirty years. <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls</FONT></HTML>   --part1_140.62b769f.2947ad2b_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes imitating other instruments From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 13:44:36 EST     --part1_187.445afa.2947ae14_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/11/01 12:58:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, reedstop@prodigy.net writes:     > The "bad" Schlicker had some good ranks, but not the tonal resources = needed > by me at the time. Even worse, the 1-12 of the 16' in the pedal were > outside the case, so it had decent bass. BUT...13-32...were INSIDE the > case (as was everything else), and the bass was GONE when you went above =   > the low B on the pedals.   The problems you mention are primarily YOUR problems. The organ not = having tonal resources to suit YOUR taste is not the organ's fault. The = organist needs to adjust to the organ, not vice versa. No organ is perfect and = the problems you describe are very minor and were probably intensified by the problems of the building. A big ole' electrodigitoid would not have = solved the problem, but only masqued it.   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ and wander through the Mall Without Walls   --part1_187.445afa.2947ae14_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/11/01 12:58:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, reedstop@prodigy.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">The "bad" Schlicker had some good ranks, but not the tonal resources = needed by me at the time. &nbsp;Even worse, the 1-12 of the 16' in the = pedal were outside the case, so it had decent bass. = &nbsp;BUT...13-32...were INSIDE the case (as was everything else), and the = bass was GONE when you went above the low B on the pedals. = &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>The problems you mention are primarily YOUR problems. &nbsp;&nbsp;The = organ not having tonal resources to suit YOUR taste is not the organ's = fault. &nbsp;&nbsp;The organist needs to adjust to the organ, not vice = versa. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;No organ is perfect and the problems you describe = are very minor and were probably intensified by the problems of the = building. &nbsp;A big ole' electrodigitoid would not have solved the = problem, but only masqued it. <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Duncan, Miles, Molly, and Dewi <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;and wander through the Mall Without Walls</FONT></HTML>   --part1_187.445afa.2947ae14_boundary--