PipeChat Digest #2564 - Wednesday, December 12, 2001
 
imitation
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Not a well-phrased Question......................................
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: imitation
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Dinse Organ Co, Berlin
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
Assistant Organists.   :-)
  by "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu>
imitation
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Imitation
  by <Wurlibird1@aol.com>
RE: High Fidelity?
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
Ross' comments about the Cornet
  by "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net>
 

(back) Subject: imitation From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 09:47:07 +1300   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00FA_01C182F1.F653C9A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Ken, sorry your posting just won't do, and you haven't corrected me, but = =3D continued muddle-headed. Of course I know what a Cornet is. There is absolutely no way a =3D collection of five flute ranks is intended to imitate the brass =3D instrument. There is virtually no Tierce in the brass instrument, for =3D mere starters. The Sesquialtera is not two-fifths of a Cornet. That is complete and =3D total nonsense. Pipes are principal-toned in a Sesquialtera, flute in a = =3D Cornet. And a Sesquialtera being used in choruses? Shudders. Never. A =3D 12-17 in flutes is radically different in tone and purpose from a 12-17 = =3D in Principals. Flute pipes in Cornets have few harmonics, whereas a lot = =3D of the beauty of the solo Sesquialtera comes from the harmonics within =3D the 12th and 17th. Listen, if you don't believe me, to the Sesquialtera = =3D of the Zwolle Schnitger organ.=3D20 When I was consultant at a large church way back in 1972, the =3D organbuilder wanted to make your mistake, and it took a mighty fight =3D before I won. I wanted to add a 17th-sounding rank to the Great, and he = =3D wanted a Rohr Flute or a Block Flute or a Gemshorn. I said absolutely =3D not, it had to be the same scaling, tone and power as the Twelfth, i.e. = =3D a full-blooded Principal, otherwise I'd take him to court for the proper = =3D completion of the contract, i.e. replacement of the rank, if he did not = =3D follow my orders.=3D20 The various kinds of flutes are mostly NOT imitations of the =3D recorder-type or of transverse-type flutes, but merely use that word =3D because, compared with Principals they are indeed flutey.=3D20 And again, to call a Dulciana a string betrays that you have not heard a = =3D proper Dulciana. A Dulciana, I assure you, is a sui generis tone. There = =3D is nothing stringy about the genuine Snetzlers I have played, and =3D Snetzler Dulcianas are the standard by which aficionados judge the stop. Too, a Salicional, yes, is a string, but never a Dulciana. To enclose a = =3D Dulciana, for a start, is an impossibility if you want it to be a true =3D Dulciana, as you must have the "bloom" of it being on an open =3D soundboard. Historically, no Dulcianas have been enclosed, and were =3D placed on the Great or Choir before Swell boxes were invented. The =3D scaling, mouth width, cut-up and metal composition are all different, =3D when comparing Dulcianas and Salicionals. All the best Salicionals I =3D know are of spotted metal, but a Dulciana should never be, unenclosed or = =3D not. Pray, tell me, what instrument is a Larigot an imitation of? Or a =3D Tierce? Of course not imitative of anything, but again, sui generis to =3D the organ. Are they for brilliance, then? No, because they are not =3D chorus stops by and large.=3D20 Let's look at an average organ, even perhaps a smallish very-average =3D one, and see if it is 60% imitative:- GREAT 8 Open Diapason - no 8 Dulciana - no 8 Claribel - no 4 Principal - no 2 Fifteenth - no   SWELL 8 Open Diapason - no 8 Rohr Flute - no 4 Gemshorn - perhaps vaguely similar 2 Flautina - no, not harmonic like a Piccolo 8 Oboe - not even remotely orchestral   PEDAL 16 Bourdon - no   Imitation-or-not is not a matter of opinion, but of fact, just as in =3D that other argument I had - a Brustwerk could not be the main division =3D of an organ: that, too, is not a matter of opinion.=3D20   No wonder people don't bother with good tone if we organists can't even = =3D distinguish between imitative and organ tones, and between Dulcianas and = =3D strings, or French flutey Cornets with more-northern Principal-toned =3D Sesquialteras.   "Orchestral instrument since the time of Pan"? Forgive me, but didn't =3D orchestras come a little later than Greek mythology?=3D20   Ross   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00FA_01C182F1.F653C9A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dwindows-1252"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV>Ken, sorry your posting just won't do, and you haven't corrected =3D me, but=3D20 continued muddle-headed.</DIV> <DIV>Of course I know what a Cornet is. There is absolutely no way a =3D collection=3D20 of five flute&nbsp;ranks is intended to imitate the brass instrument. =3D There is=3D20 virtually no Tierce in the brass instrument, for mere starters.</DIV> <DIV>The Sesquialtera is not two-fifths of a Cornet. That is complete =3D and total=3D20 nonsense. Pipes are principal-toned in a Sesquialtera, flute in a =3D Cornet. And a=3D20 Sesquialtera being used in choruses? Shudders. Never. A 12-17 in flutes = =3D is=3D20 radically different in tone and purpose from a 12-17 in Principals. =3D Flute pipes=3D20 in Cornets have few harmonics, whereas a lot of the beauty of the = solo=3D20 Sesquialtera comes from the harmonics within the 12th and =3D 17th.&nbsp;Listen, if=3D20 you don't believe me, to the Sesquialtera of the Zwolle Schnitger organ. = =3D </DIV> <DIV>When I was consultant at a large church way back in 1972, the =3D organbuilder=3D20 wanted to make your mistake, and it took a mighty&nbsp;fight before I =3D won. I=3D20 wanted to add a 17th-sounding rank to the Great, and he wanted a Rohr =3D Flute or a=3D20 Block Flute or a Gemshorn. I said absolutely not, it had to be the same = =3D scaling,=3D20 tone and power as the Twelfth, i.e. a full-blooded Principal, otherwise = =3D I'd take=3D20 him to court for the proper completion of the contract, i.e. replacement = =3D of the=3D20 rank, if he did not follow my orders. </DIV> <DIV>The various kinds of flutes are mostly NOT imitations of the =3D recorder-type=3D20 or of transverse-type flutes, but merely use that word because, compared = =3D with=3D20 Principals they are indeed flutey. </DIV> <DIV>And again, to call a Dulciana a string betrays that you have not =3D heard a=3D20 proper Dulciana. A Dulciana, I assure you, is a sui generis tone. There = =3D is=3D20 nothing stringy about the genuine Snetzlers I have played, and = Snetzler=3D20 Dulcianas are the standard by which aficionados judge the stop.</DIV> <DIV>Too, a Salicional, yes, is a string, but never a Dulciana. To =3D enclose a=3D20 Dulciana, for a start, is an impossibility if you want it to be a true =3D Dulciana,=3D20 as you must have the "bloom" of it being on an open soundboard. =3D Historically, no=3D20 Dulcianas have been enclosed, and were placed on the Great or Choir =3D before Swell=3D20 boxes were invented. The scaling, mouth width, cut-up and metal =3D composition are=3D20 all different, when comparing Dulcianas and Salicionals. All the best=3D20 Salicionals I know are of spotted metal, but a Dulciana should never be, = =3D   unenclosed or not.</DIV> <DIV>Pray, tell me, what instrument is a Larigot an imitation of? Or a =3D Tierce?=3D20 Of course not imitative of anything, but again, sui generis to the =3D organ. Are=3D20 they for brilliance, then? No, because they are not chorus stops by and = =3D large.=3D20 </DIV> <DIV>Let's look at an average organ, even perhaps a smallish =3D very-average=3D20 one,&nbsp;and see if it is 60% imitative:-</DIV> <DIV>GREAT</DIV> <DIV>8 Open Diapason - no</DIV> <DIV>8 Dulciana - no</DIV> <DIV>8 Claribel - no</DIV> <DIV>4 Principal - no</DIV> <DIV>2 Fifteenth - no</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>SWELL</DIV> <DIV>8 Open Diapason - no</DIV> <DIV>8 Rohr Flute - no</DIV> <DIV>4 Gemshorn - perhaps vaguely similar</DIV> <DIV>2 Flautina - no, not harmonic like a Piccolo</DIV> <DIV>8 Oboe - not even remotely orchestral</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>PEDAL</DIV> <DIV>16&nbsp;Bourdon - no</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Imitation-or-not is not a matter of opinion, but of fact, just as =3D in that=3D20 other argument I had - a Brustwerk could not be the main division of an = =3D organ:=3D20 that, too, is not a matter of opinion. </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>No wonder people don't bother with good tone if we organists can't = =3D even=3D20 distinguish between imitative and organ tones, and between Dulcianas and = =3D   strings, or French flutey Cornets with more-northern Principal-toned=3D20 Sesquialteras.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>"Orchestral instrument since the time of Pan"? Forgive me, but =3D didn't=3D20 orchestras come a little later than Greek mythology? </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Ross</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_00FA_01C182F1.F653C9A0--      
(back) Subject: Re: Not a well-phrased Question...................................... From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 16:37:43 EST     --part1_55.1f2e5956.2947d6a7_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/9/2001 4:48:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, hanudel@schoollink.net writes:     > > Please pardon my ignorance, which I'm sure is showing...........but > is the selection "He Shall Feed His Flock" sung at Christmas, or at >   It is sung at Christmas, and is in the FIrst section of Messiah, which has = to do with the prophecies concerning messiah from old testamenyt references = and also the Birth of Messiah.   Rick in VA   --part1_55.1f2e5956.2947d6a7_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/9/2001 4:48:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, hanudel@schoollink.net writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Please pardon my ignorance, which I'm sure is = showing...........but <BR>is the selection "He Shall Feed His Flock" sung at Christmas, or at <BR>Easter?</BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>It is sung at Christmas, and is in the FIrst section of Messiah, which = has to do with the prophecies concerning messiah from old testamenyt = references and also the Birth of Messiah. <BR> <BR>Rick in VA</FONT></HTML>   --part1_55.1f2e5956.2947d6a7_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: imitation From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 17:18:40 -0800   Well, Ross, you could have fooled me. Although I have not had the benefit of your vast experience I could have sworn that a Viola da Gamba was a stringed instrument, a flauto traverso, or flute d'orchestre was a flute, a trumpet was a brass instrument, as also was a French horn, a trombone, an ophicleide and a bombarde.Then the woodwinds - hautbois, clarinet, cor anglais and so it goes on through literally hundreds of organ. If they were never intended to be imitative why not just call them roses 16', pansies 8', turnips 4'? It would make an interesting stoplist and might head off those electronic men! As for the various flutes (claribel, hohl flute, call them what you like) their characteristic is flutey, and that is what counts. In fact I would say that the only organ tone which is not at least vaguely reminiscent of an orchestral instrument is the diapason family, whether called montre, principal or what you like. Now I know you won't agree with me but, should you call me muddle headed as you so rudely did Ken, I would have to tell you that I am glad I was never your organist!!!! I would hate to have to do that, Ross! Oh well, back to my Bell reed organ from Canada c. 1888! At least there's no doubt about that! What? It has a trumpet 8'? And a flute 4'? Oh dear! Bob Elms.     > Ross & Lynda Wards wrote: > > Ken, sorry your posting just won't do, and you haven't corrected me, > but continued muddle-headed. snip > When I was consultant at a large church way back in 1972, the > organbuilder wanted to make your mistake, and it took a mighty fight > before I won. I wanted to add a 17th-sounding rank to the Great, and > he wanted a Rohr Flute or a Block Flute or a Gemshorn. I said > absolutely not, it had to be the same scaling, tone and power as the > Twelfth, i.e. a full-blooded Principal, otherwise I'd take him to > court for the proper completion of the contract, i.e. replacement of > the rank, if he did not follow my orders. > The various kinds of flutes are mostly NOT imitations of the > recorder-type or of transverse-type flutes, but merely use that word > because, compared with Principals they are indeed flutey. snip > Pray, tell me, what instrument is a Larigot an imitation of? Or a > Tierce? Of course not imitative of anything, but again, sui generis to > the organ. Are they for brilliance, then? No, because they are not > chorus stops by and large. snip > No wonder people don't bother with good tone if we organists can't > even distinguish between imitative and organ tones, and between > Dulcianas and strings, or French flutey Cornets with more-northern > Principal-toned Sesquialteras. > > "Orchestral instrument since the time of Pan"? Forgive me, but didn't > orchestras come a little later than Greek mythology? > > Ross  
(back) Subject: Dinse Organ Co, Berlin From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:10:40 -0500   In 193 the Dinse Organ Co of Berlin built and installed a two-manual in what at least is now called Christmas Lutheran Church in Bethlehem, Palestine. Interesting: they still say they are in Palestine; they do = NOT call the place Israel!! Hmmm.   Can anyone inform me of this firm? Do they still exist?   Can anyone inform me of the specific instrument, rebuilt by Rutz Organ = Co of Morristown MN and re-installed in 2001 in the church? Or does anyone have an address for the Rutz firm?   Lutheran Church of Christ the Redeemer in Minneapolis, a "sister congregation" of Christmas Lutheran Church, spearheaded a fund-raising = drive to assist with the restoration costs.   Thanx.   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA  
(back) Subject: Assistant Organists. :-) From: "Karl Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersville.edu> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 21:13:29 -0500   From a british magazine and quoting Mark Lee, speaking at Bristol = Cathedral in June:   "Cathedral organists are the ones who don't actually play the organ; their assistants do the playing. I suppose you could say that by = definition a cathedral organist is one who used to be good enough to be an = assistant."   :-) :-)     Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA  
(back) Subject: imitation From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 16:54:32 +1300   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000E_01C1832D.AC28B340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   The organ Oboe doesn't sound like an instrument of the orchestra, and =3D the Trumpet of the orchestra is more organ-Horn-toned than an organ =3D Trumpet. It is not meant to sound the same. The vast majority of organs = =3D of small to moderate size do not have a Cor Anglais, or a Viola da Gamba = =3D or those things. Too, you've ignored my points about Dulciana vs =3D Salicional tone, Cornet vs Sesquialtera, and so on. I know the Viola da Gamba well, as a close friend plays one in =3D early-music ensembles. It just doesn't sound like an organ Viola da =3D Gamba, except very superficially. Why? Because an organ string stop =3D isn't, and can't be imitative, as it's a flue not a box with strings on = =3D it played by a bow. Trying to be peaceful now [ :-) ] I wonder what we're really arguing = =3D about anyway? Regards, Ross   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000E_01C1832D.AC28B340 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dwindows-1252"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV>The organ Oboe doesn't sound like an instrument of the orchestra, =3D and the=3D20 Trumpet of the orchestra is more organ-Horn-toned than an organ Trumpet. = =3D It is=3D20 not meant to sound the same. The vast majority of organs of small to =3D moderate=3D20 size do not have a Cor Anglais, or a Viola da Gamba or those things. =3D Too, you've=3D20 ignored my points about Dulciana vs Salicional tone, Cornet vs =3D Sesquialtera, and=3D20 so on.</DIV> <DIV>I know the Viola da Gamba well, as a close friend plays one in =3D early-music=3D20 ensembles. It just doesn't sound like an organ Viola da Gamba, except =3D very=3D20 superficially. Why? Because an organ string stop isn't, and can't be =3D imitative,=3D20 as it's a flue not a box with strings on it played by a bow.</DIV> <DIV>Trying to be peaceful now [&nbsp;&nbsp; :-)&nbsp;&nbsp; ] I wonder = =3D what=3D20 we're really arguing about anyway?</DIV> <DIV>Regards,</DIV> <DIV>Ross</DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_000E_01C1832D.AC28B340--      
(back) Subject: Re: Imitation From: <Wurlibird1@aol.com> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:32:43 EST   As the continuing saga unfolds on pipes/digitals, authentic/imitation, real=20 or Memorex, Ross is prompted to write:   > I wonder what we're really arguing about anyway? <<   Good point, Ross. In a belated effort to put this matter to bed, I have=20 devised what is offered as a potential solution to the problem. Pipes must=20 find new nomenclature and digitals must be prohibited from using pipe=20 nomenclature in any form. As an example, I submit the following as a=20 suggested beginning for digitals. This should preclude any charge of=20 plagerism, sham, scam, skullduggery, or deception. As a tradeoff, pipes mus= t=20 agree in bond that they will never attempt to copy with pipes the voices of=20 digitals. Thus the beginning of a new era in peaceful coexistence:   STOMPERS (was pedals) 32 Rumbler (shakes, rattles and rolls) 16 PencilPull (foundational) 16 Bourbon (number denotes age) 10 2/3 Bourbon (highly prized fifth) 8 DiaPagan (unbelievable character) =20 8 HalfFlute (not quite Hohl) 4 CoralBass (it really rocks) II Tuit (prepared for - when we get around tuit)   TERRIFIC (was Great) 8 Monty (fills any Hall) 8 Pflute (pfiesty and pfurious pflue) 4 Flusher (commodious with Monty and Pflute) 4 Pfleet (read directions before use) 2 2/3 Lizzarde (large scales)=20 2 Octavius (distinctly Italian)=20 IV Intravenous Mixture 8 Daysaweek (very British reed)   FABULOUS (was Swell) 16 Velocipede Triangulaire 8 G=E2=80=99decked (Austrailian voice) 8 Jimshorn (my own; intoxicating character) 4 Schlitz Flute (delicious qualities) 4 Gagging PencilPull (strung out character) 2 2/3 Nasal (a booger to blend) 2 Shiftless (couples poorly) =20 1 3/5 Pierce (penetrating voice) III Fingers (a Scotch mixture) 16 Mutha Mirabilis (dark character) 8 Crumpette (brittle character)) 8 Oboy! (makes a definitive statement) 4 Clariol (colorful qualities)   Obviously more skillful voicers will contribute to this tonal palate (oops,=20 that's a patented phrase) and the digorgan will grow on its own without=20 cantankerous admonishments from the Puritans. Of course, digitizers will=20 have to bridle their tongues as well.   I must get my prescriptions refilled tomorrow. I had no dosages today.   And to all a g'night Jim Pitts    
(back) Subject: RE: High Fidelity? From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:30:11 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001C_01C1829B.C744C840 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Jeff, I wish you well. It will be interesting to see how things have changed after you've laboured in the electrovineyard for thirty years.   Bruce, if I ever take a position with the electrovineyard, I'll be sure = to let you know. :-) I'm quite happy so far with my current post, I plan to be here for awhile. :-)   But, seriously, I'm not saying that the instrument isn't something I'd consider....I'm just trying to say that there are many who don't have a choice, but they still make the best they can with what they have to work with...that's all. :-) But....the instrument shouldn't be the first = factor in deciding whether or not to take a position. You could have the most magnificent, perfectly-voiced and spec'd organ out there, but if the congregation isn't easy to work with, and the minister is someone you = can't work with....is it worth it? Well, for some, it might be. Frankly, I'd rather have a congregation that's warm, and supportive, and a minister = who's the same...and I've found both of those. And, as my luck would have it, I have a decent 27 rank pipe organ at my disposal. Now, if I could just get = a nice grand piano....oops, that's another debate. :-D     Peace and Joy! Jeff     ------=3D_NextPart_000_001C_01C1829B.C744C840 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dus-ascii"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D2>Jeff, I wish you well. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;It will be interesting = =3D to see=3D20 how things have changed after you've laboured in the electrovineyard for = =3D thirty=3D20 years.&nbsp;<BR><BR><SPAN class=3D3D180232605-12122001><FONT=3D20 color=3D3D#0000ff>&nbsp;Bruce, if I ever&nbsp;take a position with = the=3D20 electrovineyard, I'll be sure to let you know.&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; I'm quite = =3D happy=3D20 so far with my current post, I plan to be here for awhile.&nbsp;=3D20 :-)</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D180232605-12122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2><SPAN class=3D3D180232605-12122001>But, =3D seriously, I'm not=3D20 saying that the instrument isn't something I'd consider....I'm just =3D trying to=3D20 say that there are many who don't have a choice, but they still make the = =3D best=3D20 they can with what they have to work with...that's all.&nbsp; = :-)&nbsp;=3D20 But....the instrument shouldn't be the first factor in deciding whether = =3D or not=3D20 to take a position.&nbsp; You could have the most magnificent, =3D perfectly-voiced=3D20 and spec'd organ out there, but if the congregation isn't easy to work =3D with, and=3D20 the minister is someone you can't work with....is it worth =3D it?&nbsp;&nbsp; Well,=3D20 for some, it might be.&nbsp; Frankly, I'd rather have a congregation =3D that's=3D20 warm, and supportive, and a minister who's the same...and I've found =3D both of=3D20 those.&nbsp; And, as my luck would have it, I have a decent 27 rank pipe = =3D organ=3D20 at my disposal.&nbsp; Now, if I could just get a nice grand =3D piano....oops,=3D20 that's another debate. :-D</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 color=3D3D#0000ff size=3D3D2><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D180232605-12122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D2><SPAN =3D class=3D3D180232605-12122001></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D2><SPAN class=3D3D180232605-12122001><FONT = color=3D3D#0000ff>Peace =3D and=3D20 Joy!</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D2><SPAN class=3D3D180232605-12122001><FONT=3D20 color=3D3D#0000ff>Jeff</FONT></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT lang=3D3D0 color=3D3D#000000 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF"><FONT =3D face=3D3DArial><FONT=3D20 size=3D3D2><SPAN=3D20 class=3D3D180232605-12122001>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY= =3D ></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_001C_01C1829B.C744C840--    
(back) Subject: Ross' comments about the Cornet From: "Jeff White" <reedstop@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 23:39:25 -0600   Ross, that was an interesting description of the differences between = flutes and principals. Now, this brings up a question:   When the Zimmer was installed at Holy Trinity, the organist at the time = told me via email that he'd dreamed of having a mounted cornet for the top = manual (which currently has no function). That manual was intended for the prepared-for Trumpet en hors. He also mentioned having a Concert Flute (I think) at 8'. Now, the question I have is this: Would it be better to = have the 5 stops for the cornet be separate for individual use as needed, or = have all 5 ranks on the same slider and knob? It seems a waste to tie up the various ranks together when they could also make other combinations such = as 8 + 2-2/3, or 8 and 2, etc. Or does it become a voicing issue at that = point where you would NOT want them to be individual?   Personally, I'd love to scrap the whole idea and put in a real Swell division. (The bottom manual is the Great, middle is the Choir....no Swell.) But this discussion brought up these questions.   Thanks in advance! Jeff