PipeChat Digest #2589 - Wednesday, December 19, 2001
 
Time to Weigh In
  by "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #2588 - 12/19/01
  by "Ken_Earl01" <ken_earl01@hotmail.com>
Re: Eggs 'n' Leather
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
St. John the Divine
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
smallish organs
  by "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz>
Re: Leather and egg
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
how frequently to releather an organ?
  by <Wuxuzusu@aol.com>
Re: No Sam, there is no Stalactite Organ
  by "Claire" <fleahopper@earthlink.net>
Re: leather (pace, Don Pearson) (grin)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: Time to Weigh In From: "Douglas A Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:10:42 -0500   Dear Pipechatters,   There has been a great deal of discussion of late about the "electronic/Pipe" debate, small organs, and such.   I feel that I must now weigh in on this whole thread.   In this recent thread, I have heard the following reasons for buying an electronic instrument: 1) We can't afford a pipe organ 2) We don't have space for a pipe organ 3) We want a huge instrument for our small congregation/space.   I will add one more reason: We need an interim instrument.   Let's look at these individually.   1) We can't afford a pipe organ   This is the most oft reason given and probably the second least valid. In truth, most congregations CAN afford a good pipe organ. Yes, there may be an exception here or there, but by and large, a pipe organ IS within the possibility of most congregations. In one church, they recently went through a rather massive restructuring/restoration of their 100+ year old structure. The congregation is 500 members, and over the past 6 years they have spent about 1.6 million dollars on their building(s). Then the church contracted an additional 1/2 Million for a new pipe organ! Not every congregation could ( or needs) to spent that kind of money in such a short period of time, but this church had "deferred" too much for too long.   In most denominations there is a national office that helps congregations deal with capital fund raising. In the above example, that office sent a representative into the congregation who reviewed the pledge history of the congregation and was able to forecast a realistic sum that could be raised through a capital fund campaign. The recommendation was to have a three year "Capital Fund Drive" with an anticipated goal of 1/2 Million dollars. This particular congregation ended up pledging about $ 600,00 during this campaign ! With these funds the church was able to go ahead with some considerable amount of work - and with the very visual and positive results of this, a second three year campaign was able to raise even more ! It is very realistic that a CAPITAL campaign can easily raise $1,000 per member over a three year period. That is only one dollar per day per member !   The primary difference between "being able to afford a pipe organ" and "can only afford an electronic" is not the real costs, but rather the approach. Congregations look at the purchase of an electronic instrument as "budget item" and congregations that purchase a pipe organ look at that purchase as a "Capital Investment".     2) We don't have space for a pipe organ   This "reason", in most circumstances, simply doesn't hold water. One example, given on the list, was a worship space only 20 x 30 feet, where there wasn't a room for an organ. My bet is that a Moller Artiste (or similar) WOULD indeed fit in such a space and would provide sufficient sound to meet the congregation's needs. Using the "Capital Investment" approach ( above) would allow a small congregation to be able to afford such an instrument, as well.   I recently heard Felix Hell play a concert in a moderate sized church with a rather small "West End Gallery Organ". The instrument was only 21 ranks and I do not believe that the "foot print" was over 75 sq. ft. It was a substantial instrument for that worship space !   Often, congregations will say "we don't have room" because they do not wish to make ANY changes to their worship space - or the manner that they use that space. This is natural, but with some congregational education, these attitudes can be changed. It seems interesting that the congregations that have been in the same worship space/arrangement for the longest tend to be the ones MOST open to change !   There has all ready been comments about the need to have space for proper speaker placement with the use of an electronic instrument. in may instances, this space could also be used for pipe placement.   3). We want a huge instrument for our small congregation/space.   This is by far the most insidious reasoning of them all. This attitude simply put is the Organist's ego taking over. a worship space that holds 100 people does not need a 3 manual 40 rank pipe organ OR an electronic imitation of that. The ONLY person that would put forth such a "solution" would be an organist that really had their own ego to satisfy rather than the needs of their congregation.   Although there is some literature out there that tries to tie a formula: (X number of seats divided by Y is equal to the number of ranks needed) to determining the size of an instrument for a particular congregation, I think this is pure hogwash. It fails to take into account the acoustics of the space, the style of worship and the capabilities and limitations of the music program.   I heard a wonderful 13 rank instrument in a small church in Mass. that is perfect example of the "right" sized instrument for the space. The Church holds about 125 people and the organ is physically compact, and musically expansive.     So what is the answer to all of this?   Perhaps the APOBA, AIO and AGO should combine forces and produce some real, effective materials for organists to use to EDUCATE their congregations! There are many fine builders in this country waiting to build organs for almost any space, there is the Organ Clearing House, ready to provide fine extant instruments to new congregations - all that is needed is the material for the average organist to SELL the concept of a fine pipe organ to their congregations.   Perhaps each AGO chapter could put together it's own program of "demonstration" that could either be taken to a congregation or have the congregation brought to it. Imagine the effect of not their own organist alone, but several demonstrating an instrument to a committee. Having the local AGO chapter actively involved in such a project would be so helpful to an organist struggling with a formal committee or even an informal group that is just beginning to look at possibilities.     If more pipe organs are going to be placed in churches, it is going to take a concerted effort to assist the organists and congregations, just as it will take a concerted effort to interest more young people to become organists. But, that is another subject........................       Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #2588 - 12/19/01 From: "Ken_Earl01" <ken_earl01@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:30:26 -0000   With reference to Paul's comment about egg whites being applied to organ leathers.   The only builder that I know who "used to" do this, was J & J Binns (later Binns, Fitton and Haley).   Every instrument of theirs that I've worked on (and that's been a few) = have suffered the same fate. The leather reacted to the egg, dried up, cracked = / split., and was useless, in the same time periods (10 to 15 years) that other builders' untreated leather work was still almost 'as new'.   If this is still being done, it goes to show that the mistakes of our grandparents etc have still not been learned!!   Ken  
(back) Subject: Re: Eggs 'n' Leather From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:44:03 -0600   At 4:48 PM -0500 12/19/01, TubaMagna@aol.com wrote: >I have not heard of the egg white treatment. Stateside, we get enough >problems with rodents gnawing at reservoir gussets. They seem attracted = to >the animal protein in the hide glue and the hide gusset itself. Adding >eggwhites seems to be the final Martha Stewart touch for a light and = elegant >rodentine meal.   LOLOL!!!!!!  
(back) Subject: St. John the Divine From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:30:02 EST     --part1_f4.13dbeee8.29528b0a_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I am truly sorry that Bruce has not seen St. John the Divine in person. It = is truly an awesome edifice.   About fifteen years ago I was a chaperone for a youth choir whose director =   had arranged for them to sing in St. Johns on a Monday morning simply to = let them absorb the terrific accoustics of this fabulous building. Had a = priest found the keys to the organ just a few minutes sooner, I would have been = able to see and perhaps play that Skinner. Alas, as we were reboarding the bus = to leave, he came running after me stating that he had finally found those = keys. Timing is EVERYTHING!     Stan Krider     --part1_f4.13dbeee8.29528b0a_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>I am truly sorry that = Bruce has not seen St. John the Divine in person. It is truly an awesome = edifice.<BR> <BR> About fifteen years ago I was a chaperone for a youth choir whose director = had arranged for them to sing in St. Johns on a Monday morning simply to = let them absorb the terrific accoustics of this fabulous building. Had a = priest found the keys to the organ just a few minutes sooner, I would have = been able to see and perhaps play that Skinner. Alas, as we were = reboarding the bus to leave, he came running after me stating that he had = finally found those keys. Timing is EVERYTHING!<BR> <BR> <BR> Stan Krider<BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> </FONT></HTML> --part1_f4.13dbeee8.29528b0a_boundary--  
(back) Subject: smallish organs From: "Ross & Lynda Wards" <TheShieling@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 13:50:45 +1300   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0019_01C1895D.52B8EF60 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Dear List, Way back in 1960, I first tried the organ in the Roman Catholic =3D Cathedral in Christchurch, NZ. A 3-manual tracker by Halmshaw (of =3D England), 1871. In 1910 approx. it was moved from the old wooden =3D pro-Cathedral into the new one, a great stone cruciform structure of =3D classical architecture seating about 900 or more, with a high gallery =3D all the way round the church, and a vast dome over the chancel. =3D Reverberation is about 3.5secs. when the church is empty. The organ is =3D at the west end, of course. On that visit in1960, the church told me the organ was rubbish and had =3D to be replaced. I violently disagreed (not too strong an adverb), saying = =3D it was incredibly beautiful in the building. Over the next three years, = =3D I visited that church several times at my own expense (100's of miles =3D from my home in Wellington) arguing that this organ must never be turfed = =3D out. At one stage they tried to sell it for as little as $600, but had =3D no takers - everyone hated it.=3D20 A friend of mine, in his late 60s then, and me just 26, was persuaded =3D (by me!) to make a tape recording on the organ of a Cesar Franck =3D chorale. He did this, and I played the recording to the Bishop of that =3D Diocese (I was then a Presbyterian, but am now an Anglican clergyman). =3D He was transfixed, saying that was exactly what the cathedral needed. =3D Imagine his face when I told him that was the organ they already = had!!=3D20 Anyway, within 3 years of that date, I had begun to succeed in =3D convincing people of the organ's worth. In the 1980s, it was fully =3D restored by the most skilful organ company in New Zealand - the South =3D Island Organ Company, and a few stops added. The organ is now revered =3D nation-wide among organists as an absolute national treasure. Sure, it's = =3D a little soft, but only a little. The scheme - Compass 58/30. Tracker, wind c3 inches, on slider chests. The 4th rank =3D of the Great and Swell Mixtures had been stolen some years before, but =3D have now been replaced with new pipes) GREAT 8 Open Diapason 8 Open Flute (stopt 1-12, all wood) 8 Dulciana (CC) 4 Principal 2 3/4 Twelfth (sic) 2 Fifteenth . Mixture IV (19.22.26.29) 8 Trumpet   SWELL 16 Bourdon (wood, to CCC) 8 Open Diapason 8 Stopped diapason (all wood) 4 Principal 2 Fifteenth . Mixture IV (19.22.26.29) (different breaks from Great) 8 Oboe (CC) 8 Cornopean (CC)   CHOIR (unenclosed) 8 Stopped Diapason (all wood) 8 Dulciana (grvd 1-12) 4 Celestina (like a Salicet) 4 Flute (all open wood) 8 Cremona (guttural Clarinet, now completed to CC)   PEDAL (now with 4 new stops on slider chest) 16 Open Diapason (wood) 16 SubBass (wood) 8 Principal (new) 4 Octave (new) . Mixture IV (19.22.26.29) (new) 16 Posaune (new, full-length metal)=3D20   COUPLERS SwGt SwPed GtPed SwCh ChGt (no ChPed)   3 combo.pedal to each Sw. & Gt. None to choir. No pistons. Trem. to Swell, new Trem. to Choir.   The organist and congregation love the sound now. It's extraordinarily =3D clear, yet rich and warm.=3D20   There are also now two other organs in the cathedral - each from very =3D small churches, with one organ each side of the dome in the gallery. =3D Both are Bevingtons from about 1876-1885, with about 5ks and one 16ft on = =3D each one, with 18-note pedalboards. Small as they are, they sound quite = =3D glorious in the cathedral, and a 3-way stereo with 3 organists playing =3D the instruments at once is amazing. Now there are three organs and the =3D music has been built up substantially, the cathedral choirs often do =3D works with singers stationed in various parts of the Cathedral.   Regards, Ross=3D20   P.S. Some of you on this List have thought me too pushy. Do you think I = =3D was then, too, 40 years ago, or would you have stood by and watched this = =3D fine old organ being dumped on the scrap-heap?   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0019_01C1895D.52B8EF60 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type content=3D3D"text/html; =3D charset=3D3Dwindows-1252"> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3D3DGENERATOR></HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Dear List,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Way back in&nbsp;1960, I first tried the organ in = =3D the Roman=3D20 Catholic Cathedral in Christchurch, NZ. A 3-manual tracker by Halmshaw =3D (of=3D20 England), 1871. In 1910 approx. it was moved from the old wooden =3D pro-Cathedral=3D20 into the new one, a great stone cruciform structure of classical=3D20 architecture&nbsp;seating about 900 or more, with a high gallery all the = =3D way=3D20 round the church, and a vast dome over the chancel. Reverberation is =3D about=3D20 3.5secs. when the church is empty. The organ is at the west end, of=3D20 course.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>On that visit in1960, the church told me the organ = =3D was rubbish=3D20 and had to be replaced. I violently disagreed (not too strong an =3D adverb), saying=3D20 it was incredibly beautiful in the building. Over the next three years, = =3D I=3D20 visited that church several times at my own expense (100's of miles from = =3D my home=3D20 in Wellington) arguing that this organ must never be turfed out. At one = =3D stage=3D20 they tried to sell it for as little as $600, but had no takers - =3D everyone hated=3D20 it.&nbsp;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>A friend of mine, in his late 60s then, and me just = =3D 26, was=3D20 persuaded (by me!) to make a tape&nbsp;recording on the organ of a Cesar = =3D Franck=3D20 chorale. He did this, and I played the recording to the Bishop of that =3D Diocese=3D20 (I was then a Presbyterian, but am now an Anglican clergyman). He was=3D20 transfixed, saying that was exactly what the cathedral needed. Imagine =3D his face=3D20 when I told him that was the organ they already had!! </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Anyway, within 3 years of that date, I had begun to = =3D succeed in=3D20 convincing people of the organ's worth. In the 1980s, it was fully =3D restored by=3D20 the most skilful organ company in New Zealand - the South Island Organ =3D Company,=3D20 and a few stops added. The organ is now revered nation-wide among =3D organists as=3D20 an absolute national treasure. Sure, it's a little soft, but only a =3D little. The=3D20 scheme -</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Compass 58/30. Tracker, wind c3 inches, on slider = =3D chests. The=3D20 4th rank of the Great and Swell Mixtures had been stolen some years =3D before, but=3D20 have now been replaced with new pipes)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>GREAT</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;8&nbsp; Open Diapason</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;8&nbsp; Open Flute (stopt 1-12, all =3D wood)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;8&nbsp; Dulciana&nbsp; (CC)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;4&nbsp; Principal</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;2 3/4 Twelfth&nbsp; (sic)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;2&nbsp; Fifteenth</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; .&nbsp; Mixture IV (19.22.26.29)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;8&nbsp; Trumpet</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>SWELL</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>16&nbsp; Bourdon&nbsp; (wood, to CCC)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; 8&nbsp; Open Diapason</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; 8&nbsp; Stopped diapason (all =3D wood)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; 4&nbsp; Principal</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; 2&nbsp; Fifteenth</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; .&nbsp;&nbsp; Mixture IV&nbsp; (19.22.26.29) = =3D (different=3D20 breaks from Great)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; 8&nbsp; Oboe (CC)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; 8&nbsp; Cornopean (CC)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>CHOIR (unenclosed)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;8&nbsp; Stopped Diapason (all =3D wood)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;8&nbsp; Dulciana&nbsp; (grvd =3D 1-12)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;4&nbsp; Celestina (like a =3D Salicet)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;4&nbsp; Flute (all open wood)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;8&nbsp; Cremona (guttural Clarinet, now =3D completed to=3D20 CC)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>PEDAL</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>(now with 4 new stops on slider chest)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>16&nbsp; Open Diapason (wood)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>16&nbsp; SubBass&nbsp; (wood)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; 8&nbsp; Principal (new)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp; 4&nbsp; Octave (new)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; .&nbsp; Mixture IV (19.22.26.29)=3D20 (new)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>16&nbsp;&nbsp;Posaune (new, full-length=3D20 metal)&nbsp;</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>COUPLERS</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>SwGt&nbsp; SwPed&nbsp; GtPed&nbsp; SwCh&nbsp;=3D20 ChGt</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>(no ChPed)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>3 combo.pedal to each Sw. &amp; Gt. None to choir. = =3D No=3D20 pistons.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Trem. to Swell, new Trem. to Choir.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>The organist and congregation love the sound now. = =3D It's=3D20 extraordinarily clear, yet rich and warm. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>There are also now two other organs in the cathedral = =3D - each=3D20 from very small churches, with one organ each side of the dome in the =3D gallery.=3D20 Both are Bevingtons from about 1876-1885, with about 5ks and one 16ft on = =3D each=3D20 one, with 18-note pedalboards. Small as they are, they sound quite =3D glorious in=3D20 the cathedral, and a 3-way stereo with 3 organists playing the =3D instruments at=3D20 once is amazing. Now there are three organs and the music has been built = =3D up=3D20 substantially, the cathedral choirs often do works with singers =3D stationed in=3D20 various parts of the Cathedral.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Ross </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>P.S. Some of you on this List have thought me too = =3D pushy. Do=3D20 you think I was then, too, 40 years ago, or would you have stood by and = =3D watched=3D20 this fine old organ being dumped on the =3D scrap-heap?</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0019_01C1895D.52B8EF60--      
(back) Subject: Re: Leather and egg From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:33:32 EST   Dear List   A dainty rodent meal says it all. Egg whites work fine for egg/tempura art on wood panals. Old leather, especially the leather from the UK 100 years a go, used to be tanned, using a formula which may now have been lost. Coal dust has to go down in history as the most corosive element organ leather has ever had to endure. Yet the leathers so tanned seemed to last 60 to 85 years, and some even longer according to some. The trick was to seal in the natural oil in the skins.   The formulas to accomplish this, were probably handed down by word of mouth from father to son to grandson, each one making his own = contributuion. Ever try to get a housewife to reveal her secret recipies. Forget it! = She'll tell you, come again next time and I'll make you another one. The English were secretive like that too. They'd sell you all the leather you wanted, but forget about the recipe for the process. It was these secrets about quality that kept people coming back to buy more.   Leather is expensive, so in the sixties and seventies builders thought, leather is leather, right!? They bought less expensive leather that looked just as good, emphasis on the word LOOKED. Wrong, the stuff fell apart and cracked, in less than 10 years. So much for the 10 year guarantee. This boondoggle led them further down the economy path to synthetics. We know the horrible story there too. There is no free lunch as to = quality, as some found out the hard way. Wood is another subject we could discuss at length, and it's quality. Forget quality and you are out of business no matter how big you are.   Regards,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: how frequently to releather an organ? From: <Wuxuzusu@aol.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 19:46:35 EST     --part1_14.1f9d3ced.29528eeb_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org writes:   > > Which makes me ask, how often must releathering be done? Does it depend = on > whether or not an organ is used more often? I know weather is a factor = but > lets say in whatever climate leaving the weather factor out would an = organ > which is played more or less require more frequent releathering? > Thanks, > Robert > I would love to climb into an organ. >   Normally, whenever the leather starts to crumble. However, since water = damage may have occurred in the chests (leather can rot, hide glue come loose, = pouch felt hardens when it dries after being soaked and wet wood does warp), it makes sense to perform the releathering since the pipes have been already removed for cleaning themselves. Pipe removal is a major expense in = itself. It is similar to your automobile. When the timing belt needs replaced, you =   might as well replace the water pump as well since the most of the cost is =   the labor involved in getting to the timing belt/water pump area.   Stan Krider   --part1_14.1f9d3ced.29528eeb_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT = SIZE=3D2>RCOLASACCO@popcouncil.org</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> writes:<BR> <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE = TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; = MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR> Which makes me ask, how often must releathering be done? Does it depend = on<BR> whether or not an organ is used more often? I know weather is a factor = but<BR> lets say in whatever climate leaving the weather factor out would an = organ<BR> which is played more or less require more frequent releathering?<BR> Thanks,<BR> Robert <BR> I would love to climb into an organ.<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR> Normally, whenever the leather starts to crumble. However, since water = damage may have occurred in the chests (leather can rot, hide glue come = loose, pouch felt hardens when it dries after being soaked and wet wood = does warp), it makes sense to perform the releathering since the pipes = have been already removed for cleaning themselves. Pipe removal is a major = expense in itself.&nbsp; It is similar to your automobile. When the timing = belt needs replaced, you might as well replace the water pump as well = since the most of the cost is the labor involved in getting to the timing = belt/water pump area.<BR> <BR> Stan Krider</FONT></HTML>   --part1_14.1f9d3ced.29528eeb_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: No Sam, there is no Stalactite Organ From: "Claire" <fleahopper@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:39:57 -0500     > >Sam Vause wrote: > > > > A quick search of "AskJeeves.Com" shows the search string "organ cave > music" > > to return a pointer to Luray Caverns in Kentucky: > > http://www.luraycaverns.com/pages/stalacpipe%20organ.html discusses = the > > Stalactite Organ. > >Neither have most of us visiting this cavern in Virginia. The music is a >clever ruse to the attendees. A clever hoax to the tourists. > > >Maybe it worked - a long time ago.     Still works & can be played from the console, but the usual tours are midi =   - but it activated tiny little hammers on some of the stalactites, which then sound the note. If you're quick you can see it happen. Claire    
(back) Subject: Re: leather (pace, Don Pearson) (grin) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:38:59 EST     --part1_39.1fb174bc.2952a943_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 12/19/01 4:17:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, paul-austin@ntlworld.com writes:     > Here in England it is common practice to apply raw egg to the leather. = This > is used particularly on motors and valves as it is thought that it > preserves the leather and protects it against the varying climate = changes. > The egg is simply cracked open, whipped and then painted on and left to > dry.   Yeeks! It doesn't stink or draw ants??? Amazing!   Thanky. I wonder what Martha Stewart would say?   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Duncan, Miles, Molly & Dewi http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/baskerbargains Please visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_39.1fb174bc.2952a943_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 12/19/01 4:17:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, paul-austin@ntlworld.com = writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Here in England it = is common practice to apply raw egg to the leather. &nbsp;This is used = particularly on motors and valves as it is thought that it preserves the = leather and protects it against the varying climate changes. &nbsp;The egg = is simply cracked open, whipped and then painted on and left to dry. = </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Yeeks! &nbsp;&nbsp;It doesn't stink or draw ants??? = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Amazing! <BR> <BR>Thanky. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I wonder what Martha Stewart would say? <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Duncan, Miles, Molly &amp; Dewi = &nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/baskerbargains <BR>Please visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/ <BR> &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_39.1fb174bc.2952a943_boundary--