PipeChat Digest #1816 - Saturday, February 10, 2001
 
Alan Laufman Memorial Recital
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Education Needed???????
  by "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com>
Re: Vicki's next-to-the-last update
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: Education Needed???????
  by "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Re: Education Needed? Yep. Sure Is.
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: organist as organ designer
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Education Needed? Yep. Sure Is.
  by "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com>
 

(back) Subject: Alan Laufman Memorial Recital From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:40:06 -0500   Hello all, I'm just back from a month in Florida (wish I was still there), and have re-subscribed to PipeChat. I attended the Immaculate Conception recital last Sunday evening in Boston on the Hook in Alan's memory, There were many people there from all over, including the mid-west and Canada, mostly OHS related. Here is the program, all very well-played with much feeling.   Organ Recital in Memory of Alan Miller Laufman (Oct. 10, 1935-Nov. 30, 2000) Jesuit Urban Center (Immaculate Conception Church), Harrison Ave. Boston = MA Sunday, February 4, 2001at 7pm E. & G. G. Hook 1863 Opus 322, 3 M. 55 registers, reconstructed 1902 Opus 1959, 4 M. 116 registers   Hymn "Morning Star" Hymn accompanist Christa Rakich, DOM Kevin Birch -- "Praeludium in e" -- Bruhns Bridget Chatterley -- "Chorale partita 'Freu dich sehr, O meine Seele'" =   -- Pachelbel Timothy Smith -- "Chaconne in c" -- Buxtehude George Bozeman -- "Four Chorale Preludes from the Eleven Chorale = Preludes Op. 122 -- Brahms 'Herzlich tut mich erfreuen' 'Schmucke dich, o liebe Seele' 'O wie selig seid ihr doch, ihr Frommen' 'Herzlich tut mich verlangen' Rosalind Mohnsen -- "Fantasia and Fugue in g, BWV 542" -- Bach Intermission Hymn "St. Clement" Brian Jones -- "Prelude and Fugue (Postilion) in C" -- Krebs Peter Sykes -- "Schmucke dich, o liebe Seele, BWV 654" -- Bach Lois Regestein -- "Prelude and Fugue in g" -- Brahms Thomas Murray -- "Sonata in F, opus 65, number 1" -- Mendelssohn   Submitted by Judy Ollikkala  
(back) Subject: Education Needed??????? From: "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:00:28 -0500   Good posting Randy,   Yes, I, myself, feel this is an excellent point!!!   I an now 18yo and play the 4th largest organ in the area (with plans for = the 3rd or 2nd largest!). The type of service I play is a blended service.... = band, piano, AND organ! And this goes over fine!! Altho we are the 3rd largest church in the area (as in sq ft), we have the largest = congregation!   I recently thought about applying to St. Mary the Virgin in NYC. = Something about a IV/86 A-S/Mann&Trupiano stricks me a excellent... Well, when I approached my two organ teachers (private), then both talked = me out of it... "You don't know the Episcopalian/Catholic Liturgy" "You = don't know the literature required for that place" "you aren't ready for it"...... and on and on....   Well, I was asked by a wedding party to play for their wedding at a = catholic church here in the city, but the rector said NO and that I wasn't Catholic.... Well, they needed me to play for a Mass the next month and = I blew them all away.   Basically, my point is that I do not need a college education.. altho I am =   applying to Westminster Choir College as a Sacred Music Major. I have subbed for the largest Episcopalian church (where I took most of my years = of organ lessons) on the IV/56 Hill, Norman & Beard. Blew them away too!! I =   have not had a single bit of lliturgical College education.... however, I =   have been told (be many) that I have out-performed my two teachers! I consider that an honor because one is a Professor Emeritus, and the other has her Masters from Indiana University.   For the age I am... I have an increadible amount of liturature under my fingers... ranging in the 300 area.... this consists of mostly = large-scale works such as the Widor Toccata, The Boellmann Suite Gothique, the 8 = Little Preludes & Fugues, etc.... And every week I keep adding at least two new works...   I was musical director at 2 differnt churches throughout the past 5 years and the pastors kept coming to me to find out about certain liturgical things!   Altho this is only one personal experience, it goes to prove that a large-scale college education is not completely needed.   My $.02 worth also.....   Respectfully submitted in the 36 degree Farh. house with no heat at the present moment,   Jason Comet _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Vicki's next-to-the-last update From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:53:57 -0600   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_2508169= =3D=3D_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii"   At 2/9/01 09:53 PM, Vicki responded to Peter:   > >> >> You may want to start a pipechat support group for members who've been >> through hell. >> >> Hope you are continuing to thrive, physically and emotionally. > > > > You mean we don't have a support group???????       Uhhhh...? I thought we *were* a support group...!?! <lol>   Oh well -- the important part: We're all glad to hear of your continued recovery, Vicki!! <cheers, applause>   Tim     --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_2508169= =3D=3D_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"us-ascii"   <html> At 2/9/01 09:53 PM, Vicki responded to Peter: <br> <br> <font size=3D2><blockquote type=3Dcite cite><blockquote type=3Dcite = cite>You may want to start a pipechat support group for members who've been <br> through hell.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br> <br> Hope you are continuing to thrive, physically and emotionally.&nbsp; </blockquote><br> </font><br> <font face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D"#0000A0">You mean we don't have a support group??????? </font></blockquote><br> <br> Uhhhh...?&nbsp; I thought we *were* a support group...!?! &lt;lol&gt;<br> <br> Oh well -- the important part:&nbsp; We're all glad to hear of your continued recovery, Vicki!!&nbsp; &lt;cheers, applause&gt;<br> <br> Tim<br> <br> </html>   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_2508169= =3D=3D_.ALT--    
(back) Subject: Re: Education Needed??????? From: "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:59:04 -0800 (PST)     --- Jason Comet <diaphone64@hotmail.com> wrote:   > Basically, my point is that I do not need a college education.. altho I = am > applying to Westminster Choir College as a Sacred Music Major.   Jason, at the risk of contradicting my own post, written when I was not in = the best frame of mind - Listen to your teachers and older colleagues! = Someone your age, if hired, by a place like smoky mary's would probably be eaten = alive. My full-time job at Christ Episcopal Church, Los Altos, CA <www.christ-church.los-altos.ca.us> was the most stressful thing I have = ever done and made me hate church work. This is a 500 member "regular" church. =   Many of the people in the 30 voice choir were well trained and educated = and this casues a good bit of friction when what they want/think does not jell = with where you are. The search committee wanted me to bring the music program = out of the 50's, while not throwing out the traditional, and the first time we = did "Seek Ye First" during communion I could feel the negative vibes from = several singers. It did not matter to them that the congregation would actually = join in and sing during communion. This all has nothing to do about skill at = the keyboard or as a choral director. I just did not belong there and I was = very angry that I moved 3,000 miles from home and it was not the mountain-top I expected it to be!   But things work out, somehow because I am very happy now!   Jason, you are young enough not to make the mistake I did, and you already = have at least some decent training. If playing and directing in a liturgical = church such as Episcopal, Lutheran, or Roman Catholic is a goal, a professional = degree will really help. However, since the average full-time position does well = to even get up to $30K, you may want to look at a double major so you can = have the money to spend that someone like you will want & need!   I guess what I said in the earlier post is correct. What I did not say, = and should have added, is how I regret that I don't have the piece of paper = that represents my training, since that is all many people look at, and now I = don't even have the time to think about finishing the courses. I am working = 8-10 hours 7 days a week to make the kind of income I now have, but I know that outside of these few conclaves in this country where it is possible for a person like me to make it professionally, I'd probably still be working = retail or perhaps doing data entry. And though I have developed good office and administration skills, while I was in Alabama I was discriminated against = (I think) because I was a man! And it had nothing to do with sexuality, = etc.!   You get my point, I hope!   Randy :-)   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Education Needed? Yep. Sure Is. From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:29:49 -0800   You *may* not LEARN a whole lot in college, but you still need the piece = of paper, AND the discipline it takes to acquire it.   OTOH you have to decide what YOU want/need to learn, and go after THAT; in = my case (as I gather in yours) I had been doing professionally for a very long = time (since age 10) what I was supposedly going to college to LEARN, so it was = somewhat easier for me to sort out what I needed and what I didn't. But even then I missed = a few things:   Take all the music theory you can; if your college DOESN'T offer = composition and orchestration courses, you'll at least have the building blocks. I'd say = composing and orchestrating were the two VITAL skills I DIDN'T learn in college.   LEARN COMMON PRACTICE ... it's STILL the foundation of EVERYTHING. You can = learn other stuff AFTER you have a solid grounding.   A couple of other things that are vital in running a full-time program are BOOKKEEPING SKILLS, and LIBRARY SKILLS; both I had to acquire on my own. = And I didn't learn to use a COMPUTER until I came to St. Matthew's three years = ago and they GAVE me one (grin) ... sure couldn't live without it NOW.   And what was that class in grad school that I slept through? Something = about doing research and using the library and finding materials ... well, that's all = changed now because of the Internet, but you need to learn whatever the = present-day equivalent is.   VOICE PRODUCTION ... this is probably the BIGGEST failing of most = organists ... I *say* that I'm of the "sing, damn ye!" school of choir directing, but I'm = not ... MOST of the workshops I've been to over the years and MOST of the reading = I've done has been about choral work and tone production.   Learn the recital pieces in your spare time ... but spend the BULK of your = time learning SUBSTANTIAL church repertoire, if you intend to be a church = musician ... 5-10 minute preludes, 5-minute offertories, 5-10 minute postludes ... = there's PLENTLY of legitimate organ literature that falls within those boundaries.   I chose to learn a lot of the big Bach chorale preludes, rather than the = preludes and fugues, and that has stood me in good stead over the years. The = preludes and fugues I *did* learn, I haven't touched in YEARS, because I'm full-time in = a liturgical church where the position is 90% choirmaster and 10% organist, = at least in terms of time.   After twelve hours of chanting in Holy Week, I'd BETTER have something for = Easter under my fingers that I can play in my SLEEP, because I have rehearsals = and services without a break from Palm Sunday through Easter Day. Practice? = Are you MAD?? (grin)   That's MY perspective, after 48 years in the field (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   randy terry wrote:   > --- Jason Comet <diaphone64@hotmail.com> wrote: > > > Basically, my point is that I do not need a college education.. altho = I am > > applying to Westminster Choir College as a Sacred Music Major. > > Jason, at the risk of contradicting my own post, written when I was not = in the > best frame of mind - Listen to your teachers and older colleagues! = Someone > your age, if hired, by a place like smoky mary's would probably be eaten = alive. > My full-time job at Christ Episcopal Church, Los Altos, CA > <www.christ-church.los-altos.ca.us> was the most stressful thing I have = ever > done and made me hate church work. This is a 500 member "regular" = church. > Many of the people in the 30 voice choir were well trained and educated = and > this casues a good bit of friction when what they want/think does not = jell with > where you are. The search committee wanted me to bring the music = program out > of the 50's, while not throwing out the traditional, and the first time = we did > "Seek Ye First" during communion I could feel the negative vibes from = several > singers. It did not matter to them that the congregation would actually = join > in and sing during communion. This all has nothing to do about skill at = the > keyboard or as a choral director. I just did not belong there and I was = very > angry that I moved 3,000 miles from home and it was not the mountain-top I > expected it to be! > > But things work out, somehow because I am very happy now! > > Jason, you are young enough not to make the mistake I did, and you = already have > at least some decent training. If playing and directing in a liturgical = church > such as Episcopal, Lutheran, or Roman Catholic is a goal, a professional = degree > will really help. However, since the average full-time position does = well to > even get up to $30K, you may want to look at a double major so you can = have the > money to spend that someone like you will want & need! > > I guess what I said in the earlier post is correct. What I did not say, = and > should have added, is how I regret that I don't have the piece of paper = that > represents my training, since that is all many people look at, and now I = don't > even have the time to think about finishing the courses. I am working = 8-10 > hours 7 days a week to make the kind of income I now have, but I know = that > outside of these few conclaves in this country where it is possible for = a > person like me to make it professionally, I'd probably still be working = retail > or perhaps doing data entry. And though I have developed good office = and > administration skills, while I was in Alabama I was discriminated = against (I > think) because I was a man! And it had nothing to do with sexuality, = etc.! > > You get my point, I hope! > > Randy :-) > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: organist as organ designer From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:38:10 EST     --part1_60.b845492.27b6f2a2_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 2/10/01 3:11:58 AM !!!First Boot!!!, = randyterry@laumc.org writes:     > I ought to delete this rambling message, but I am interested to hear if = this > touches home with anyone - AND, I am certianly not belittling those who = do > have impressive academic credentials. But in the end the proof is in = the > playing! <ha!> > >   I agree with you. I have known too many people with credentials out the bazoo who just did not do a good job. I have studied with some very fine teachers, five of the seven were Sowerby students. My organ playing was = at its worst when I was major in organ. I was told by another organ = professor from another school (top recitalist, etc) who had heard me play several = years prior, that I needed to get out of that place and learn how to play the = organ again. The desire to learn and resourcefulness to accomplish it are the =   important ingredients. A degree can simply mean that you paid tuition = and gave the right answers, or that the professor was tired of having you in = his class! I know of one master's recipient in that category, first hand.   There is no (or very very few) degree programs in organ building. It is a =   trade and craft that has been passed down from master to student for centuries. The system seems to have worked well. The proof in a = builder's ability is the end result, regardless of whether or not he or she can play = it.   Bruce ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_60.b845492.27b6f2a2_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 2/10/01 3:11:58 AM !!!First = Boot!!!, randyterry@laumc.org <BR>writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I ought to delete = this rambling message, but I am interested to hear if this <BR>touches home with anyone - AND, I am certianly not belittling those = who do <BR>have impressive academic credentials. &nbsp;But in the end the proof = is in the <BR>playing! &nbsp;&nbsp;&lt;ha!&gt; <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I agree with you. &nbsp;I have known too many people with credentials = out the <BR>bazoo who just did not do a good job. &nbsp;I have studied with some = very fine <BR>teachers, five of the seven were Sowerby students. = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;My organ playing was at <BR>its worst when I was major in organ. &nbsp;I was told by another organ = professor <BR>from another school (top recitalist, etc) who had heard me play = several years <BR>prior, that I needed to get out of that place and learn how to play = the organ <BR>again. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;The desire to learn and resourcefulness to = accomplish it are the <BR>important ingredients. &nbsp;&nbsp;A degree can simply mean that you = paid tuition and <BR>gave the right answers, or that the professor was tired of having you = &nbsp;in his <BR>class! &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I know of one master's recipient in that = category, first hand. <BR> <BR>There is no (or very very few) degree programs in organ building. = &nbsp;It is a <BR>trade and craft that has been passed down from master to student for <BR>centuries. &nbsp;The system seems to have worked well. &nbsp;&nbsp;The = proof in a builder's <BR>ability is the end result, regardless of whether or not he or she can = play it. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" SIZE=3D5 FAMILY=3D"DECORATIVE" = FACE=3D"Tempus Sans ITC" LANG=3D"0"><I>Bruce = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Calisto MT" LANG=3D"0">Cremona502@cs.com</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" SIZE=3D5 = FAMILY=3D"DECORATIVE" FACE=3D"Tempus Sans ITC" LANG=3D"0"> &nbsp; <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D"Calisto MT" LANG=3D"0">with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest = ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</I></FONT></HTML>   --part1_60.b845492.27b6f2a2_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Education Needed? Yep. Sure Is. From: "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:10:56 -0500   <html><DIV> <P>heya guys.....&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; sorry,,,,&nbsp;&nbsp; I forgot to put = in there that I made it this far without a college education....&nbsp; I = AM going to college and know that I can not live on church work WITHOUT an = education.....&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I was just saying that I have made = it THIS&nbsp;far, but know that I can and WILL go further....</P> <P>Sorry about the mis-wording.....</P> <P>Same as Randy, I wasn't in the best position of thinking at that = moment.</P> <P>Jason Comet<BR><BR></P></DIV> <DIV></DIV> <DIV></DIV>&gt;From: quilisma@socal.rr.com <DIV></DIV>&gt;Reply-To: "PipeChat" <PIPECHAT@PIPECHAT.ORG> <DIV></DIV>&gt;To: PipeChat <PIPECHAT@PIPECHAT.ORG> <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subject: Re: Education Needed? Yep. Sure Is. <DIV></DIV>&gt;Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:29:49 -0800 <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;You *may* not LEARN a whole lot in college, but you still = need the piece of paper, <DIV></DIV>&gt;AND the discipline it takes to acquire it. <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;OTOH you have to decide what YOU want/need to learn, and go = after THAT; in my case <DIV></DIV>&gt;(as I gather in yours) I had been doing professionally for = a very long time (since <DIV></DIV>&gt;age 10) what I was supposedly going to college to LEARN, so = it was somewhat easier <DIV></DIV>&gt;for me to sort out what I needed and what I didn't. But = even then I missed a few <DIV></DIV>&gt;things: <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;Take all the music theory you can; if your college DOESN'T = offer composition and <DIV></DIV>&gt;orchestration courses, you'll at least have the building = blocks. I'd say composing <DIV></DIV>&gt;and orchestrating were the two VITAL skills I DIDN'T learn = in college. <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;LEARN COMMON PRACTICE ... it's STILL the foundation of = EVERYTHING. You can learn <DIV></DIV>&gt;other stuff AFTER you have a solid grounding. <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;A couple of other things that are vital in running a = full-time program are <DIV></DIV>&gt;BOOKKEEPING SKILLS, and LIBRARY SKILLS; both I had to = acquire on my own. And I <DIV></DIV>&gt;didn't learn to use a COMPUTER until I came to St. = Matthew's three years ago and <DIV></DIV>&gt;they GAVE me one (grin) ... sure couldn't live without it = NOW. <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;And what was that class in grad school that I slept = through? Something about doing <DIV></DIV>&gt;research and using the library and finding materials ... = well, that's all changed <DIV></DIV>&gt;now because of the Internet, but you need to learn whatever = the present-day <DIV></DIV>&gt;equivalent is. <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;VOICE PRODUCTION ... this is probably the BIGGEST failing = of most organists ... I <DIV></DIV>&gt;*say* that I'm of the "sing, damn ye!" school of choir = directing, but I'm not ... <DIV></DIV>&gt;MOST of the workshops I've been to over the years and MOST = of the reading I've done <DIV></DIV>&gt;has been about choral work and tone production. <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;Learn the recital pieces in your spare time ... but spend = the BULK of your time <DIV></DIV>&gt;learning SUBSTANTIAL church repertoire, if you intend to be = a church musician ... <DIV></DIV>&gt;5-10 minute preludes, 5-minute offertories, 5-10 minute = postludes ... there's <DIV></DIV>&gt;PLENTLY of legitimate organ literature that falls within = those boundaries. <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;I chose to learn a lot of the big Bach chorale preludes, = rather than the preludes <DIV></DIV>&gt;and fugues, and that has stood me in good stead over the = years. The preludes and <DIV></DIV>&gt;fugues I *did* learn, I haven't touched in YEARS, because = I'm full-time in a <DIV></DIV>&gt;liturgical church where the position is 90% choirmaster and = 10% organist, at least <DIV></DIV>&gt;in terms of time. <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;After twelve hours of chanting in Holy Week, I'd BETTER = have something for Easter <DIV></DIV>&gt;under my fingers that I can play in my SLEEP, because I = have rehearsals and <DIV></DIV>&gt;services without a break from Palm Sunday through Easter Day. = Practice? Are you <DIV></DIV>&gt;MAD?? (grin) <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;That's MY perspective, after 48 years in the field (grin). <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;Cheers, <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;Bud <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;randy terry wrote: <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; --- Jason Comet <DIAPHONE64@HOTMAIL.COM>wrote: <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; Basically, my point is that I do not need a = college education.. altho I am <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; &gt; applying to Westminster Choir College as a = Sacred Music Major. <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Jason, at the risk of contradicting my own post, = written when I was not in the <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; best frame of mind - Listen to your teachers and = older colleagues! Someone <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; your age, if hired, by a place like smoky mary's = would probably be eaten alive. <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; My full-time job at Christ Episcopal Church, Los = Altos, CA <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <WWW.CHRIST-CHURCH.LOS-ALTOS.CA.US>was the most = stressful thing I have ever <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; done and made me hate church work. This is a 500 = member "regular" church. <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Many of the people in the 30 voice choir were well = trained and educated and <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; this casues a good bit of friction when what they = want/think does not jell with <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; where you are. The search committee wanted me to = bring the music program out <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; of the 50's, while not throwing out the traditional, = and the first time we did <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; "Seek Ye First" during communion I could feel the = negative vibes from several <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; singers. It did not matter to them that the = congregation would actually join <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; in and sing during communion. This all has nothing to = do about skill at the <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; keyboard or as a choral director. I just did not = belong there and I was very <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; angry that I moved 3,000 miles from home and it was = not the mountain-top I <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; expected it to be! <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; But things work out, somehow because I am very happy = now! <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Jason, you are young enough not to make the mistake I = did, and you already have <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; at least some decent training. If playing and = directing in a liturgical church <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; such as Episcopal, Lutheran, or Roman Catholic is a = goal, a professional degree <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; will really help. However, since the average = full-time position does well to <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; even get up to $30K, you may want to look at a double = major so you can have the <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; money to spend that someone like you will want &amp; = need! <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; I guess what I said in the earlier post is correct. = What I did not say, and <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; should have added, is how I regret that I don't have = the piece of paper that <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; represents my training, since that is all many people = look at, and now I don't <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; even have the time to think about finishing the = courses. I am working 8-10 <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; hours 7 days a week to make the kind of income I now = have, but I know that <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; outside of these few conclaves in this country where = it is possible for a <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; person like me to make it professionally, I'd = probably still be working retail <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; or perhaps doing data entry. And though I have = developed good office and <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; administration skills, while I was in Alabama I was = discriminated against (I <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; think) because I was a man! And it had nothing to do = with sexuality, etc.! <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; You get my point, I hope! <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Randy :-) <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; __________________________________________________ <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Do You Yahoo!? <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - = only $35 <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs = &amp; related topics <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>&gt; &gt; Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV>&gt;"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" <DIV></DIV>&gt;PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs &amp; = related topics <DIV></DIV>&gt;HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>&gt;List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>&gt;Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>&gt;Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org <DIV></DIV>&gt; <DIV></DIV><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at = <a = href=3D"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>=