PipeChat Digest #1822 - Tuesday, February 13, 2001
 
Re: Leather Coupler
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Leather Coupler
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
16' open woods...CHEAP!
  by "Caroline Kehne" <ckehne@accglobal.net>
Re: Education, Degrees, Life, Music
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: More details-Sale of Martin Ott Tracker Organ
  by "Shirley" <pnst@earthlink.net>
Re: More details-Sale of Martin Ott Tracker Organ
  by "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net>
Re: More details-Sale of Martin Ott Tracker Organ
  by "Hugh Drogemuller" <hdrogemuller@sympatico.ca>
ALL READ!!! New Virus Released Today
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Vintage stops
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Leather Coupler
  by "diaphone 64" <diaphone64@hotmail.com>
Re: Leather Coupler
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Re: Leather Coupler
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Balcony Placements...
  by "Mike Swaldo" <mswal@adelphia.net>
Re: Leather Coupler
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: Organ Building: an Art
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Any list members in Sydney, Australia?
  by "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org>
Re: Leather Coupler
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Leather Coupler From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:21:05 -0800   At 07:23 PM 2/11/2001 -0500, you wrote: >The entire assembly can be replaced with a "Lovejoy >coupling". Lovejoy is the brand name. Several companies make these = things. >They can be had at industrial supply houses like Granger and = McMaster-Carr. >They will be listed under power transmission.<snip>   That's just the coupling I was thinking of when I wrote the last post. Falk also makes several spring-type couplings used in a variety of power transmission applications. Again, using leather is just plain silly. Leather was phased out in power transmission by the late 1920's.   dB    
(back) Subject: Re: Leather Coupler From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:17:25 EST   In a message dated 2/11/01 5:49:59 PM EST, diaphone64@hotmail.com writes:   > > That exact coupler was replaced 3 years ago by the same member of the > trustees. That was when the original LEATHER coupling went-up. He replaced > > it with a rubber coupling. > When the coupling was replaced, were the two coupling plates removed? or = did the 'trustee' just replace the leather strips? I have a couple pairs of Moller/Kinetic coupler plate sets and MIGHT have a set of leather coupling =   strips. At any rate, it is not that hard to make replacements for the = leather strips using the same type of leather that a cobbler uses to re-sole shoes =   and boots. the reason that Moller/Kinetic used the leather strips was so = that vibration from the fans (or for that matter, the motor) would not transfer =   thru the coupling and beat the bearings to death. Another alternative to consider is to replace the motor altogether with a newer more efficient motor. the Kinetic blowers are designed to spin at 1165 rpm. SO if you use = a newer motor that turns a bit faster, even using a 5 to 4 ratio (5 on the blower shaft, 4 on the motor shaft) you can slightly up-speed the fans = which gives a small boost in both the CFM output and the static wind pressure, which on some organs makes a marginal wind supply steadier. I have done = this sucessfully on several organs that I maintain that use Kinetic (Moller) blowers. I removed the original cast-iron motor mounts and place a 3/4 = inch plywood base bolted to the bottom rails of the blowers so that the motor pulley and the blower shaft pulley align vertically.   just ,my 2 cents worth.   Rick Maryman Staunton VA  
(back) Subject: 16' open woods...CHEAP! From: "Caroline Kehne" <ckehne@accglobal.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:02:58 -0500   A 30-note set of 16' open woods is available at super-bargain basement prices. These came from an 1908 Odell 3MP and includes the offset chest for the bottom six pipes. Dimensions of CCC are 13 1/4" x 11 7/8" (internal), 3 11/16" cutup, no nicking. Fulfill your dream of owning a real earth-shaking stop...or convert it into a stopped 32'!   Also available at giveaway prices is an Odell swell chamber (held 6-7 ranks) with hinged access doors on both sides; 7'9"H x 7'W x 5'D. Also available; one curtain-valve reservoir and one cone-valve reservoir (both 48" x 30"); you'll need those for the open woods!   This stuff has to move fast, or it's dumpster time for them. Located in Poughkeepsie, NY. We're very motivated to sell; all offers are appreciated.   contact Robert Pelletier at ckehne@accglobal.net or (450) 294-3377 or John Vanderlee at Jovanderlee@vassar.edu or jvanderlee@juno.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Education, Degrees, Life, Music From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:31:03 EST     --part1_86.6c999b4.27b9cc37_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 2/12/01 6:50:12 PM !!!First Boot!!!, = randyterry@laumc.org writes:     > As Sebastian so articulately stated, there are plenty of snobs on both = sides > of the fence. I don't want anyone to think I am one of them! > >   I think Sebastian stated the situtation beautifully. I think, basically =   what this boils down to is that people must try to take advantage of = whatever opportunities they encounter. If you are unable to learn via academia, = find another way. If you are able to take advantage of university or conservatory training, by all means do it. Whatever road you take, = however, has no end.   Bruce ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_86.6c999b4.27b9cc37_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">In a message dated 2/12/01 6:50:12 PM !!!First = Boot!!!, randyterry@laumc.org <BR>writes: <BR> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">As Sebastian so articulately stated, there are plenty of snobs on = both sides <BR>of the fence. &nbsp;I don't want anyone to think I am one of = them!</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <BR>I think Sebastian stated the situtation beautifully. = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I think, basically <BR>what this boils down to is that people must try to take advantage of = whatever <BR>opportunities they encounter. &nbsp;&nbsp;If you are unable to learn = via academia, find <BR>another way. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;If you are able to take advantage of = university or <BR>conservatory training, by all means do it. &nbsp;&nbsp;Whatever road = you take, however, <BR>has no end. <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" SIZE=3D5 FAMILY=3D"DECORATIVE" = FACE=3D"Tempus Sans ITC" LANG=3D"0"><I>Bruce = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" FACE=3D"Calisto MT" = LANG=3D"0">Cremona502@cs.com</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" SIZE=3D5 = FAMILY=3D"DECORATIVE" FACE=3D"Tempus Sans ITC" LANG=3D"0"> &nbsp; <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000a0" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D"Calisto MT" LANG=3D"0">with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest = ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</I></FONT></HTML>   --part1_86.6c999b4.27b9cc37_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: More details-Sale of Martin Ott Tracker Organ From: "Shirley" <pnst@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:37:32 -0500   This is SO sad, that a church feels it must "liquidate" its instrument in order to better minister to the neighborhood. :(   I know from experience that Martin Ott does beautiful work. It must hurt him to hear that one of his glorious installations is to be silenced. :(   Better to have sold the church building, with organ intact, to a congregation who would use it, and move your ministry out of the building and into the neighborhood.   So sad.   And the tone of this post is that it's being sold without one ounce of regret. :(   --Shirley   >Grace Lutheran Church is selling this organ to raise capital to continue = our >inner-city ministry efforts. Without the sale of this organ -- the = church >will close. The congregation voted to liquidate this asset--because the >work we are doing in Aurora is bearing fruit--and we need to keep up our >mission.    
(back) Subject: Re: More details-Sale of Martin Ott Tracker Organ From: "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:53:02 -0600   I could totally understand why this was done. Obviously the church's priorities are right...by selling their organ they can reach out into their neighborhood and expand their mission efforts. God comes before organs. Don't get me wrong....I love organs and everything....but I think they had a good justification for their actions (at least from what I've heard on the list).   Paul     Shirley wrote: > > This is SO sad, that a church feels it must "liquidate" its instrument = in > order to better minister to the neighborhood. :( > > I know from experience that Martin Ott does beautiful work. It must = hurt > him to hear that one of his glorious installations is to be silenced. :( > > Better to have sold the church building, with organ intact, to a > congregation who would use it, and move your ministry out of the = building > and into the neighborhood. > > So sad. > > And the tone of this post is that it's being sold without one ounce of > regret. :( > > --Shirley  
(back) Subject: Re: More details-Sale of Martin Ott Tracker Organ From: "Hugh Drogemuller" <hdrogemuller@sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:02:08 -0500   At 18:37 12/02/2001 -0500, Shirley wrote: >This is SO sad, that a church feels it must "liquidate" its instrument in =   >order to better minister to the neighborhood. :( > >I know from experience that Martin Ott does beautiful work. It must hurt =   >him to hear that one of his glorious installations is to be silenced. :( > >Better to have sold the church building, with organ intact, to a >congregation who would use it, and move your ministry out of the building =   >and into the neighborhood. > >So sad. > >And the tone of this post is that it's being sold without one ounce of >regret. :(       >List..   > My 10cents worth for what it is worth. If they get $200K , and that is = a > BIG if, and invest it conservatively as most Church's are required to = do, > they will be lucky to get an annual income of $12K. To have the capital > last inperpuity, they must reinvest each year an amount of income equal > to the rate of inflation which will reduce their annual income by about > $5K. What are they going to do with $7K ; it will hardly pay the heat > bill. Unless they plan to blow the $200K over 5 to 10 years. What will > they do when the money runs out. With the sort of mind set that I detect =   > here I find it hard to believe that they will mount a ministry that will =   > start paying back any of their $200K seed money any time soon. They could learn well from a Church in Toronto that had very desirable acreage around it and every time they got in the hole financially they = sold another piece of their property. Of course the inevitable happened. The = day came when they had nothing more to sell! They had never solved their = giving or spending problems.   HD    
(back) Subject: ALL READ!!! New Virus Released Today From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:51:45 -0600   Folks   As you know, only the Administrator can post a Virus Warning and I only post one AFTER i have checked it out. Well, today is one of the very few virus warnings that get posted to this list.   This morning a new Virus - actually a worm - was discovered and has been seen to pose a serious threat. I received word about it from a Web Page at ABC News that was forwarded to me.   The following is from the Symantec Security Updates that i just looked at.   ***************************************** VBS.SST@mm   Discovered on: February 12, 2001 Last Updated on: February 12, 2001 at 01:47:42 = PM PST     VBS.SST@mm is a VBS email worm that has been encoded using a virus creation kit. The worm arrives as an attachment named AnnaKournikova.jpg.vbs When executed, the worm emails itself to everyone in your Microsoft Outlook book. On January 26, the worm will attempt to direct your Web browser to an Internet address located in The Netherlands.   This worm appears to have originated in the = Netherlands   Also Known As: VBS.Lee-o, VBS.OnTheFly ***********************************************   Please be aware and if you receive any mail with this attachment delete it IMMEDIATELY - DO NOT OPEN IT.   I am going to guess that they did make a mistake in the date in the above and am guessing that they mean February 26 instead of January 26.   If you are running an Anti-Virus program, as EVERYONE should be, I would go to the web site for your program and download the latest updates to the virus definitions file that the Anti-Virus program uses. I know that Symantec has updated their Virus Definitions files today. Without checking other Anti-Virus programs i am going to guess that they are also updating their information. I will caution you that there may be long download times at the various sites since everyone will be trying to update definitions.   Of course ALL of us need to practice Safe Computing - in other words NEVER, NEVER, NEVER open a file that is sent to us, even from a close friend, without knowing EXACTLY what this file contains. If for some reason you receive a file that you aren't expecting, ALWAYS WRITE the sending asking what it is before opening it.   If you want to read about the Virus yourself here are two links:   http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/virus_010212_b.html   http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/vbs.sst@mm.html   And now back to our regularly scheduled and hopefully safe PipeChatting. If you have any questions about this please direct your posting to me personally at the Administration address and NOTT to the list.   David -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: Vintage stops From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:04:12 -0500   Re: Open woods-   On any large instrument, a 32' Open would be a crowd-pleaser. Many downtown "flagship" theatres had 32' Diaphones that actually underminded = the buildings' foundations and cracked the walls. They were often = disconnected. The Reuter I restored had a 16' Open with pouches the size of dinner plates and a 3" diameter valve. Tuning was done by a wood "shade" at the pipe-top.   Rick    
(back) Subject: Re: Leather Coupler From: "diaphone 64" <diaphone64@hotmail.com> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:29:48 -0500   I believe it is the ORIGINAL plates.... they are green.. the same as the blower.   >When the coupling was replaced, were the two coupling plates removed? >or =   >did >the 'trustee' just replace the leather strips? I have a couple pairs >of >Moller/Kinetic coupler plate sets and MIGHT have a set of leather = >coupling >strips.   Yeah.. I can't even get them to spend the money to keep the organ tuned = on a regular basis!!!! So that's not going to happen in the near future! ::::rolls eyes:::: Although a new blower unit has been proposed to be housed in the organ chamber instead in the boiler room with the furnace.   >Another alternative to >consider is to replace the motor altogether with a newer more >efficient >motor. the Kinetic blowers are designed to spin at 1165 rpm. SO if >you = use >a >newer motor that turns a bit faster, even using a 5 to 4 ratio (5 on >the >blower shaft, 4 on the motor shaft) you can slightly up-speed the >fans >which >gives a small boost in both the CFM output and the static wind >pressure, >which on some organs makes a marginal wind supply steadier. I have >done >this >sucessfully on several organs that I maintain that use Kinetic >(Moller) >blowers. I removed the original cast-iron motor mounts and place a >3/4 >inch >plywood base bolted to the bottom rails of the blowers so that the >motor >pulley and the blower shaft pulley align vertically.       As of today, it has been replaced... According to the trustee, the set screws just came loose. However, the vibrations are still being = transfered to the chamber floor (3 floors away!) !!! I think I've got the only = organ console with a vibrating bench!!! LOL   Jason Comet _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Leather Coupler From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:54:08 -0600   If you are getting vibrations I would check to be sure that neither shaft is bent or out of alignment or the coupler wont last very long. Luther    
(back) Subject: Re: Leather Coupler From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:56:10 -0800   At 09:29 PM 2/12/2001 -0500, you wrote: As of today, it has been replaced... According to the trustee, the set screws just came loose.<snip>   Common.   However, the vibrations are still being transfered to the chamber floor (3 =   floors away!) !!!<snip>   This has nothing whatsoever to do with a drive coupling, and everything to =   do with impeller balancing. A local dynamic balance shop should be able = to do that for you...IF you're so inclined to tear down the blower for a complete rebuild, not a bad idea, given its age.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Balcony Placements... From: "Mike Swaldo" <mswal@adelphia.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:10:19 -0500   Hi,   I'm currently in a church that is looking at the need to do an organ revamping sometime in the future. Right now, it is still in that first stage(the organist's dream stage). The organ is a 1927 Moller, rebuilt in 1973.   I briefly toyed with the idea of what it would be like to move the organ = and the choir to the balcony. How it all came about was like this: A few oif = my choir members have been asking to try singing from the balcony, just to = see what it is like. I said we could try it, but I never thought when we rehearsed. After I took over the organ, they brought it up again, = thinking that they could see me better. We did try it, but it didn't work well. They could see me, but the sound all stayed up there. They sound better down front.   Some had said to me how neat they thought gallery placements were, rather than on the floor. So, I naturally pondered the posibilities of = relocating the organ there, but have now pretty much dismissed the idea. Here's why:   Our balcony isn't quite as big as it looks. It's also divided into three sections. As it is, you couldn't get anything up there. Now, if you = could knock out the two dividing walls, that would make room. Since I know nothing about archeticture, this may bring down the roof for all I know. Also, considering how the choir sounded up there, it would probably have = to be remodeled in such a way to project the sound out. Then there's the = organ itself. It was designed to go in the front of the church. This being the case, would an attempt to relocate it turn out to be a big expensive flop? Finally, some of the older members may eventually find it difficult to = climb the steep, narrow stairs. I abandonded the notion as too expensive, too much trouble, and too risky.   Bud's plan for his new organ got me thinking again. Has anyone here had experience doing something like this? What was the end result? One of = the things I plan to push for is to have our organ chambers enlarged, so = things will not be so tightly packed in there, to make it easier for the tuners, and hopefully to get rid of some of the "mushiness." Also, I would like = top see some kind of re arrangement of the console so it is better for me to direct the choir. When I was just directing, we faced the congregation. Since I am playing now, the choir must now face me, which make them perpendicular to the congregation. Since all of this will take a fair amount of remodeling, maybe a balcony placement is feasible after all.   Opinions? Ideas?   Thanks, Mike    
(back) Subject: Re: Leather Coupler From: "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:11:13 -0600   At 2/12/01 05:17 PM, Rick Maryman wrote: >Another alternative to >consider is to replace the motor altogether with a newer more efficient >motor. <snip> >I removed the original cast-iron motor mounts and place a 3/4 inch >plywood base bolted to the bottom rails of the blowers so that the motor >pulley and the blower shaft pulley align vertically.   Hi, Rick!   Be careful doing this. I have seen old blowers that have had their original motors replaced with more "modern" examples, via belts and pulleys. (ostensibly to maintain the relatively slow rotation speed of = the old blowers). The result (after a decade or so) -- no more blower shaft bearings. The "new" motors couldn't care less, but the old blower shaft bearings weren't designed for the sideways torque forces that the belt/pulley drive imparts to them -- thus they eventually expire -- sometimes dramatically.   Tim Bovard Little Rock AR  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Building: an Art From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 22:10:32 EST   Dear Robert:   As far as I know Ludwigsburg is it! Apprenticeship is the only other route learning from a master. A good knowledge of Physics, Math, Cabinet making, and a thorough understanding of engineering, and mechanics.   Regards,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Any list members in Sydney, Australia? From: "TommyLee Whitlock" <tommylee@whitlock.org> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:32:35 -0500   Hello all,   It appears that my company will be sending me to Sydney, Australia for 3 weeks, leaving next week. I was wondering if there are any members in or = near Sydney who might be interested in getting together during my stay? I will = be landing on or about Feb 21 and leaving around March 10 or 11.   Cheers, TommyLee Whitlock Reston, VA      
(back) Subject: Re: Leather Coupler From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:11:36 -0800   At 09:11 PM 2/12/2001 -0600, you wrote: >Be careful doing this. I have seen old blowers that have had their >original motors replaced with more "modern" examples, via belts and >pulleys. (ostensibly to maintain the relatively slow rotation speed of = the >old blowers). The result (after a decade or so) -- no more blower shaft >bearings. The "new" motors couldn't care less, but the old blower shaft >bearings weren't designed for the sideways torque forces that the >belt/pulley drive imparts to them -- thus they eventually expire -- >sometimes dramatically.<snip>   Indeed. The rather simple bearings provided that will only handle axial torque requirements of a direct drive setup are NO good at handling side thrust encountered in a belt drive transmission. It would require a complete redesign of the bearing system being used. Direct drive should ALWAYS be replaced with direct drive. "Slow speed" AC motors are tough to =   find these days, however, making repair/rewinding of an "ol' timer" almost =   a necessity in such cases, despite their low efficiency. A reasonable = (but expensive) replacement would be a geared torque multiplier/speed reducer transmission, but considerable changes to the motor mount area must be engineered. I'd say, in most cases, it's more cost-effective overall to replace the entire blower with a modern unit, and get better energy efficiency in the bargain.   DeserTBoB