PipeChat Digest #1838 - Friday, February 23, 2001
 
Madrid and Barcelona
  by <Rbjrsnow@aol.com>
RE: PipeChat Digest #1827 - 02/15/01
  by "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu>
Marseille, France
  by "Len Beyersdorfer, MARATHON Digital Publishing" <LenB@MDigital
Re: Marseille, France
  by "Vincent Lef=E8vre" <vlefevere@online.be>
Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by "Mike Swaldo" <mswal@adelphia.net>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 

(back) Subject: Madrid and Barcelona From: <Rbjrsnow@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:38:31 EST   I will be in each of these cities on a Sunday in March and would like to = know where I might hear a good organ. Suggestions will be appreciated. = Gracias - Roland, NYC  
(back) Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #1827 - 02/15/01 From: "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:26:17 -0600   My music director told me his musical horizons had been forever broadened and that he'll never forgive me.... :-)   -----Original Message----- From: Bob Scarborough [mailto:desertbob@rglobal.net] Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 6:29 PM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: PipeChat Digest #1827 - 02/15/01     At 04:02 PM 2/21/2001 -0800, you wrote: > > Didja listen to Bill Langenberg's rock 'n' roll version of the Widor > Toccata yet?<snip>   Honest critique: "Don't quit your day job."   DeserTBoB     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Marseille, France From: "Len Beyersdorfer, MARATHON Digital Publishing" <LenB@MDigital.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:32:27 +0500   Hi -   I have a daughter who is going to school in Marseille, France. Can anyone =   suggest organs for her to hear in the area?   Thanks!     --------------------------- Len Beyersdorfer MARATHON Digital Publishing Marlboro, Massachusetts LenB@MDigital.com 508-460-6172 ---------------------------    
(back) Subject: Re: Marseille, France From: "Vincent Lef=E8vre" <vlefevere@online.be> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:03:58 +0100   Len, You could try the website http::/perso.wanadoo.fr/eisenberg This site contains a list of more than 500 organs in France. I'm sure some in Marseille Vincent ----- Original Message ----- From: Len Beyersdorfer, MARATHON Digital Publishing <LenB@MDigital.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 6:32 AM Subject: Marseille, France     > Hi - > > I have a daughter who is going to school in Marseille, France. Can = anyone > suggest organs for her to hear in the area? > > Thanks! > > > --------------------------- > Len Beyersdorfer > MARATHON Digital Publishing > Marlboro, Massachusetts > LenB@MDigital.com > 508-460-6172 > --------------------------- > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: "Mike Swaldo" <mswal@adelphia.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:48:14 -0500   Hi,   Disclaimer!! I am not posting these questions to ignite the great Pipe = vs. Electronic debate, or to look down on any church's musical resources. It = is simply a question. I am speaking to the church administrative boards this weekend to make a proposal about an organ renovation project to improve = our Moller.   The questions:   >In the church music scene in general, would you say church's with pipe organ have a larger >attendance or musical participation than those with electronic?   >If you were a member of a church, and moved, would your choice of a new church be >influenced by whether it had a pipe organ?   I understand that people join churches for reasons other than music, but whether a church had a pipe organ would certainly influence me.   The angle of this part of the presentation is that the organ, a wind instrument, lives and breathes. It is the busiest and most faithful = member of the church, filling nearly half (in some churches more) of the service with music. It is active at each service, year after year. When we think of how much is spent on worship resources each year, how much do we spend = on the organ? The organ should grow with the church, but it is often the = most neglected part of the church.   Best wishes, Mike    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:02:39 EST   I would hope people join the church for reasons other than simply whether = it has a pipe organ. But a pipe organ that is being used does indeed tell a visitor what kind of music he/she should expect.   People should join a church because they feel they are being fed = spiritually and are in an atmosphere where they can worship God with integrity.   A good pipe organ will work with many musical styles. It will even work with CCM songs when used properly. But it's important to reiterate that a =   pipe organ is what it is.   May I also point out somethings I hadn't really thought about until I attended the colloquium on the organ at Princeton Seminary 2 weeks ago...   The visual impact of the pipe organ should not be overlooked. The verticality of the pipes draws ones' eyes upward (important in church architecture). The symmetry and order of the pipes reflects (to me) God's =   order in Creation. So the visual presence of the organ can be an aid to worship in its own right, albeit subtly -- even subliminally? I'm just = not sure one can get this from a set of box speakers with cones and tweeters.   Peace every1, Neil          
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:10:04 -0600   Mike Swaldo wrote: > > The questions: > > >In the church music scene in general, would you say church's with pipe > organ have a larger >attendance or musical participation than those with > electronic?   I would say no. I know the largest Lutheran church in the world, Mount Olivet ELCA in Minneapolis, has a Rodgers organ (according to the Rodgers dealer's handouts). They have a weekly worship attendance of 6,000 (according to the ELCA website). Another church, King of Kings Lutheran in Omaha, does not have a pipe organ (uses contemporary for most services) and has 4,300 members and an average weekly worship attendance of 2,400. I'm not attributing contemporary worship to why these churches grow, but I would doubt that if they had pipe organs they would grow any faster. Churches should grow by the Holy Spirit's drawing people to faith, NOT by the organ.   > >If you were a member of a church, and moved, would your choice of a new > church be > >influenced by whether it had a pipe organ?   If it was in my denomination, it probably would. It all has to do with the church...of course I would like a pipe organ :-)   > I understand that people join churches for reasons other than music, but > whether a church had a pipe organ would certainly influence me.   Me too!   Of course, everyone, my views are extremely conservative compared to many. Anyway, my thoughts.   Paul  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:13:42 -0800 (PST)   Amen to that, Paul! --- Paul Soulek <soulek@frontiernet.net> wrote: > Mike Swaldo wrote: > > > > The questions: > > > > >In the church music scene in general, would you > say church's with pipe > > organ have a larger >attendance or musical > participation than those with > > electronic? > > I would say no. I know the largest Lutheran church > in the world, Mount > Olivet ELCA in Minneapolis, has a Rodgers organ > (according to the > Rodgers dealer's handouts). They have a weekly > worship attendance of > 6,000 (according to the ELCA website). Another > church, King of Kings > Lutheran in Omaha, does not have a pipe organ (uses > contemporary for > most services) and has 4,300 members and an average > weekly worship > attendance of 2,400. I'm not attributing > contemporary worship to why > these churches grow, but I would doubt that if they > had pipe organs they > would grow any faster. Churches should grow by the > Holy Spirit's drawing > people to faith, NOT by the organ. > > > >If you were a member of a church, and moved, > would your choice of a new > > church be > > >influenced by whether it had a pipe organ? > > If it was in my denomination, it probably would. It > all has to do with > the church...of course I would like a pipe organ :-) > > > I understand that people join churches for reasons > other than music, but > > whether a church had a pipe organ would certainly > influence me. > > Me too! > > Of course, everyone, my views are extremely > conservative compared to > many. Anyway, my thoughts. > > Paul > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! = http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 03:43:22 EST     --part1_8a.2c2f1c3.27c77caa_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 2/23/01 2:44:52 AM !!!First Boot!!!, mswal@adelphia.net =   writes:     > The questions: > > >In the church music scene in general, would you say church's with pipe > organ have a larger >attendance or musical participation than those with > electronic? > > I think there are too many variables to use this as an argument. It is always dangerous to use "attendance numbers" to argue for something good. = After all, garbage attracts more flies than does honey!     > >If you were a member of a church, and moved, would your choice of a new > church be influenced by whether it had a pipe organ? > My choice of church is definitely influenced by its organ. If it's electronic I won't go to a service in which it is used, nor will i participate in the music program, other than attending choir rehearsal, provided the director is very good and the music is challenging.     > The angle of this part of the presentation is that the organ, a wind > instrument, lives and breathes. It is the busiest and most faithful = member > of the church, filling nearly half (in some churches more) of the = service > with music. It is active at each service, year after year. When we = think > of how much is spent on worship resources each year, how much do we = spend on > the organ? > This is an excellent point. In addition, it is a very fitting memorial = as it ministers to all who hear it throughout their lives, and especially at landmark events.   Best of luck. Let us know what happens.     Bruce ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_8a.2c2f1c3.27c77caa_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 2/23/01 2:44:52 AM !!!First Boot!!!, mswal@adelphia.net <BR>writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The questions: <BR> <BR>&gt;In the church music scene in general, would you say church's with = pipe <BR>organ have a larger &gt;attendance or musical participation than those = with <BR>electronic? <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>I think there are too many variables to use this as an argument. = &nbsp;It is <BR>always dangerous to use "attendance numbers" to argue for something = good. &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>After all, garbage attracts more flies than does honey! <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">&gt;If you were a member of a church, and moved, would your choice of = a new <BR>church be influenced by whether it had a pipe organ? <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>My choice of church is definitely influenced by its organ. &nbsp;If = it's <BR>electronic I won't go to a service in which it is used, nor will i <BR>participate in the music program, other than attending choir = rehearsal, <BR>provided the director is very good and the music is challenging. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: = #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px">The angle of this part of the presentation is that the organ, a wind <BR>instrument, lives and breathes. &nbsp;It is the busiest and most = faithful member <BR>of the church, filling nearly half (in some churches more) of the = service <BR>with music. &nbsp;It is active at each service, year after year. = &nbsp;When we think <BR>of how much is spent on worship resources each year, how much do we = spend on <BR>the organ? &nbsp; <BR> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">This is an excellent point. &nbsp;&nbsp;In = addition, it is a very fitting memorial as <BR>it ministers to all who hear it throughout their lives, and especially = at <BR>landmark events. <BR> <BR>Best of luck. &nbsp;Let us know what happens. <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_8a.2c2f1c3.27c77caa_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 01:50:33 -0800   At 03:43 AM 2/23/2001 -0500, you wrote: I think there are too many variables to use this as an argument. It is >always dangerous to use "attendance numbers" to argue for something=20 >good.<snip>   Just what is "something good", anyway? Always a subjective qualification,= =20 for certain. Ask bReWsE what "good" is, and he'll point to a split single= =20 manual tracker operating on barely breaths of wind. Ask me what "good" is= =20 and you might get a gigantic =C6olian-Skinner! Ask a "happy clappy" what is= =20 "good", and he/she will point to the "pRaZe bAnD' that assaults any=20 cultured ears. I dunno...searching for "good" ain't good enough!   >My choice of church is definitely influenced by its organ. If it's >electronic I won't go to a service in which it is used, nor will i >participate in the music program, other than attending choir rehearsal, >provided the director is very good and the music is challenging.   The reasons "normal" people either attend or don't attend a church are=20 usually FAR different than those of "organ" people! Invalid.   What cracks me up, but can yield some interestingly large instruments, if=20 the fact that many churches use their organ in sort of an=20 interdenominational "prick waving" contest, i.e., "my organ is bigger than= =20 YOUR organ", sorta like the "keep up with the Joneses phase from the 1950s= =20 that Americans are still recovering. As the "Silica Basilica" mess (and=20 others) prove, "size has nothing to do with it"! However, one shouldn't=20 then surmise that all LARGE instruments are therefore somehow "bad".   I do know what a local Methodist church kicked the CCM/pRaZe bAnD=20 interlopers out the door, and went to "traditional" services for both=20 Sunday occurrences, and attendance HAS picked up...thus quashing the=20 argument that "mainlines" MUST embrace CCM to survive. As it turned out,=20 the CCM/pRaZe bAnD kids were invaders sent over from a local nutball=20 Baptist outfit, who feigned "conversion" to Methodism to gain access! So=20 much for religion, anyway!   Churchless and quite happy about it, DeserTBoB