PipeChat Digest #1839 - Saturday, February 24, 2001
 
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by <TubaMagna@aol.com>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by <CdyVanpool@aol.com>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
commission: Propers for the Dedication of a Church (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: commission: Propers for the Dedication of a Church (X-posted)
  by "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@earthlink.net>
Dale Earnhardt's funeral
  by <Tspiggle@aol.com>
Re: Dale Earnhardt's funeral
  by "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net>
Re: commission: Propers for the Dedication of a Church (X-posted)
  by <ManderUSA@aol.com>
Re: commission: Propers for the Dedication of a Church (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 07:24:41 -0500   As per organs in worship:   The little "country church in the cornfields" in my neck of the woods = is heavily influenced by the Cincinnati Bible College. Two years ago I installed the 4-rank Wicks to replace the Bawld-one electronic. Both consoles sit on either side of the podium stage and are used alternately every month. The reason being, the old biddy loves the Balding-one organ and refuses to play the Wicks -while the preachers wife likes the Wicks and won't play the Bawld-oneder. Add to that now, Cincy's insistance on having a youth Pa- RaZe BaNd, hymn-lyrics flashed on the wall with chant-like melodies which make no sense. Needless to say the age-old congregation is furious.   In regards to pipe/ electronic worship, many Methodists come to the cornfield country Christian church JUST to hear the Wicks because they remember when it was in the old now-burned down Methodist church (gas fire). They have a new $20.000+ Allen tin-box now in the new sanctuary.   Not 2 much a church-goer,   Rick    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: <TubaMagna@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:07:56 EST   If a church is packed to the rafters, it is because of a captivating leadership with a message. I have seen churches with great attendance suddenly drop off when a lifeless, uninspired non-leader takes the pulpit, =   and the only reason people stay on is BECAUSE of the good music. Linking attendance and pipe organs is tenuous, dangerous, and unfair, = and will surely doom any chance of getting a pipe organ. Remember, the = stadium churches are filled with thousands of people because they are big, happy social clubs --- lots of religion, but the amount of actual Faith and introspection has always, always been questioned by those on the outside, looking in. Attendance should NOT be a criterion, because it is a factor simply not =   linked to pipe organs.  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:17:44 -0600     Mike Swaldo wrote:   > Hi, > > Disclaimer!! I am not posting these questions to ignite the great Pipe = vs. > Electronic debate, or to look down on any church's musical resources. = It is > simply a question. I am speaking to the church administrative boards = this > weekend to make a proposal about an organ renovation project to improve = our > Moller. > > The questions: > > >In the church music scene in general, would you say church's with pipe > organ have a larger >attendance or musical participation than those with > electronic?   Not necessarily, it would depend upon the pipe organ, and the church's commitment to maintaining it. I am inclined to interpret the presence of = a pipe organ as meaning that in the past the church high priority on quality = music in worship.   Also, the better the pipe organ in a church, the better the quality of = church musician they tend to have, because all other things equal, the = determinant for a church musician choosing between two positions is which one has the = better instrument.     > >If you were a member of a church, and moved, would your choice of a new > church be > >influenced by whether it had a pipe organ?   Not as matter of cause and effect.   ns    
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: <CdyVanpool@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:02:11 EST   Hi Mike, For starters, I understand what you want to do, but you are going about it as an organist, not as a business person. Your love of that =   organ really means mean nothing to board members. (unless they are all musicians....highly unlikely...<G>) They are there to do a job.....take = care of the investments of the church and that they get the most value for the spending of the church's money. I would approach this very simply. Use the KISS approach. = Let the board see you as a business - minded person, not that wild and crazy "organist" ....<G> Leave the dramatics at home, forget your love of the organ, and remember = it is THEIR organ not yours. Detatch yourself from it all and this is the = kind of "pitch" I would use: (Disclaimer : This is only the approach I (Van) would use with my board of =   trustees. I know them, I know how they think after 20 something = years...<G>. Use your own judgment for your board. This is NOT written in = stone....<G>))   The church made a large investment and commitment when purchasing this organ. It has been and will be, a good and faithful = servant for this church. As with any investment, there is up-keep. Think of this = organ as part of your home. Would you let a hole in the roof just get bigger = and bigger? Or would you sell the house and get a new one? No, of course not. =   (Not even the "fifthly" rich do that.....<G>) You fix what you already have. The same is true with this organ. I would have the facts and figures of at least 2 different = good organ companies and what they would do. As their organist, I would tell = them the merits of each and what they would be getting for THEIR money. And then let THEM decide.Of course since you have presented it in such a professional manner, they should want your professional input as well. Appeal to their business sense, rather than the emotion. I know this is hard for us to do, but if we want to be seen as an equal in =   church business, we must present ourselves as such. Besides the building, = the organ is the next most expensive investment the church makes. You must put =   yourself in the place of the mentality of the board members and then = appeal to that mentality. I am not putting anyone down on the board..... I just = want you to win ....<G>   I would not even mention electronics or the possibility of getting one.... =   YOU are the one planting those ideas.... which is exactly what you do not want........nix the pipe vrs. electronics......they will have an = electronics salesman in there before you can turn on the blower to the organ....<G> If =   someone mentions this..... steer them away from this topic.... you are = here to decide the fate of the organ you HAVE. They have made the pipe commitment..... changing now would be a bad and expensive re-investment. ( =   unless the organ is falling apart from no up-keep, and from what you have said, that is not the case....)   In persuasive speaking, you only ask questions that you can make =   sure they will answer the question the way you want them to, then they = will draw the conclusions that you want them too.   There is an old saying " Ya can lead a horse to water, but ya can't make = em drink." Oh yes you can.....just ask em the right questions.... not push their head down in it..... they will resist every time...... same = "principal" applies here. Make them believe what you want, is THEIR idea.......it does =   work....<G>   Just my 2 cents worth, Van Vanpool, organist FUMC Bowie, Texas      
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:23:00 EST   Rarely are all other things equal.   << because all other things equal, the determinant for a church musician choosing between two positions is which one has the = better instrument. >>   Usually the determining factor is the pay.   NB  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:20:18 -0800   At 09:07 AM 2/23/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Attendance should NOT be a criterion, because it is a factor simply not >linked to pipe organs.<snip>   Agreed.   dB    
(back) Subject: commission: Propers for the Dedication of a Church (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:49:58 -0800   The new church has been delayed AGAIN (completion now due Easter of 2002); the committee hasn't received any submissions that really knocked them out.   So I'm extending the deadline for submissions ... if anyone's still interested and HASN'T submitted, please contact me privately.   The commission pays $500 U.S., and is for settings of the Introit, Gradual & Alleluia (I guess we also have to include the Greater Alleluia for Eastertide, in case the dedication takes place during Eastertide), Offertory, and Communion of the Mass "Terribilis est" for the Dedication of a Church, to be set for UNISON choir, brass quartet (two trumpets in C and two trombones) and organ on three staves.   Text and further particulars upon request. The settings should be SHORT .... 5 minutes max, except for the Introit, which can be somewhat longer to cover the incensations.   I'm asking that people submit the Gradual ONLY for consideration, since that's the shortest piece ... the committee will make their decision based on that.   Cheers,   Bud Clark Organist/Choirmaster St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church Newport Beach California U.S.A.    
(back) Subject: Re: commission: Propers for the Dedication of a Church (X-posted) From: "Jonathan Orwig" <giwro@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:55:44 -0800   Hey Bud,   I'll request "Text and particulars"   ;-)   Jonathan Orwig FBC Riverside, CA - USA http://home.earthlink.net/~giwro/index.htm (personal) http://evensong.homepage.com/ (Music Publishing) http://www.mp3.com/orwig (mp3 site) -----Original Message----- From: quilisma@socal.rr.com <quilisma@socal.rr.com> To: +mailing list, ANGLICAN-MUSIC <anglican-music@list.stsams.org>; = pipechat <pipechat@pipechat.org>; organchat <organchat@egroups.com> Date: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:47 PM Subject: commission: Propers for the Dedication of a Church (X-posted)     >The new church has been delayed AGAIN (completion now due Easter of >2002); the committee hasn't received any submissions that really knocked >them out. > >So I'm extending the deadline for submissions ... if anyone's still >interested and HASN'T submitted, please contact me privately. > >The commission pays $500 U.S., and is for settings of the Introit, >Gradual & Alleluia (I guess we also have to include the Greater Alleluia >for Eastertide, in case the dedication takes place during Eastertide), >Offertory, and Communion of the Mass "Terribilis est" for the Dedication >of a Church, to be set for UNISON choir, brass quartet (two trumpets in >C and two trombones) and organ on three staves. > >Text and further particulars upon request. The settings should be SHORT >... 5 minutes max, except for the Introit, which can be somewhat longer >to cover the incensations. > >I'm asking that people submit the Gradual ONLY for consideration, since >that's the shortest piece ... the committee will make their decision >based on that. > >Cheers, > >Bud Clark >Organist/Choirmaster >St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church >Newport Beach California U.S.A. > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Dale Earnhardt's funeral From: <Tspiggle@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:32:49 EST   According to my local newspaper, Dale Earnhardt's funeral was Thursday at Calvary Church in Charlotte, NC. The funeral was attended by 3000 people. That church is the home of the 5-manual, 200+ rank Moller organ, one of = their last. Does anyone know if the organ was used? The paper does indicate = there were 2 hours of piano music before the service.   Tom  
(back) Subject: Re: Dale Earnhardt's funeral From: "Paul Soulek" <soulek@frontiernet.net> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:00:05 -0600   I tape "Mama's Family" on TBS every morning while I am at school (one of my favorite shows). Anyway, yesterday instead of "Mama's Family" there was the Dale Earnhardt funeral, or at least excerpts of it. I didn't hear the organ being used at all. I heard an 'lectric piano. I was waiting for the organ to come on...........but it never did.   I had told my mom about the organ before, being so large and everything, so I called her out to see it when it was on. She and I both were disappointed that it was not used.   Paul     Tspiggle@aol.com wrote: > > According to my local newspaper, Dale Earnhardt's funeral was Thursday = at > Calvary Church in Charlotte, NC. The funeral was attended by 3000 = people. > That church is the home of the 5-manual, 200+ rank Moller organ, one of = their > last. Does anyone know if the organ was used? The paper does indicate = there > were 2 hours of piano music before the service. > > Tom  
(back) Subject: Re: commission: Propers for the Dedication of a Church (X-posted) From: <ManderUSA@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 23:23:25 EST     --part1_4b.7dc82cb.27c8913d_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 2/23/2001 3:49:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, quilisma@socal.rr.com writes:     > The new church has been delayed AGAIN (completion now due Easter of > 2002); the committee hasn't received any submissions that really knocked > them out. >   Bud, and no reason not to share this with others,   Here is a temporary URL for part of an incipient website for my church. = The building was designed 45 years ago by organist/architect Gordon Johnson, = and built on a very limited budget, an important consideration in the design. = The church had a Lowrey or something similar for many years, and about seven years ago, a few years before my time there began, they found, with help = from Patrick Murphy, a 1916 Hook & Hastings tracker organ, which, thanks to = Gordon Johnson's concern and foresight, seems to belong in the space. He clearly = had this in mind right from the start.   We (Manders) find that some churches, in thinking of a new instrument, express the hope that it won't be so prominent that people will worship = the organ. In this building, the organ is prominent, but the eye is drawn to = the altar, not to the balcony. The balcony is over the narthex, by the way, a rather good use of space.   If this sort of design is of interest, I will gladly put you in touch with =   Gordon, who, having retired from his long time organ position, has, with = his wife Gladys, now joined both our church and choir. They have an e-mail address.   <A = HREF=3D"http://trinitychurch.hypermart.net/building.html">http://trinitychu= rch.hypermart.net/building.html</A>   Malcolm     --part1_4b.7dc82cb.27c8913d_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR=3D"#ffffff"><FONT = SIZE=3D2>In a message dated 2/23/2001 3:49:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>quilisma@socal.rr.com writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The new church has = been delayed AGAIN (completion now due Easter of <BR>2002); the committee hasn't received any submissions that really = knocked <BR>them out. <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Bud, and no reason not to share this with others, <BR> <BR>Here is a temporary URL for part of an incipient website for my = church. The <BR>building was designed 45 years ago by organist/architect Gordon = Johnson, and <BR>built on a very limited budget, an important consideration in the = design. The <BR>church had a Lowrey or something similar for many years, and about = seven <BR>years ago, a few years before my time there began, they found, with = help from <BR>Patrick Murphy, a 1916 Hook &amp; Hastings tracker organ, which, = thanks to Gordon <BR>Johnson's concern and foresight, seems to belong in the space. He = clearly had <BR>this in mind right from the start. <BR> <BR>We (Manders) find that some churches, in thinking of a new instrument, =   <BR>express the hope that it won't be so prominent that people will = worship the <BR>organ. In this building, the organ is prominent, but the eye is drawn = to the <BR>altar, not to the balcony. The balcony is over the narthex, by the = way, a <BR>rather good use of space. <BR> <BR>If this sort of design is of interest, I will gladly put you in touch = with <BR>Gordon, who, having retired from his long time organ position, has, = with his <BR>wife Gladys, now joined both our church and choir. They have an e-mail =   <BR>address. &nbsp;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D1 = FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B> <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></B><A = HREF=3D"http://trinitychurch.hypermart.net/building.html">http://trinitychu= rch.hypermart.net/building.html</A> <BR> <BR>Malcolm <BR></FONT></HTML>   --part1_4b.7dc82cb.27c8913d_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: commission: Propers for the Dedication of a Church (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 20:42:17 -0800     --------------36594AC64DC373021EEF6603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Thanks, Malcolm, but we're too far along ... the plans are out for bids .... the delay has been in the permit process ... I did the best I could to prepare for an organ, but evidently it wasn't enough space, so we have to re-engineer.   Cheers,   Bud   ManderUSA@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 2/23/2001 3:49:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, > quilisma@socal.rr.com writes: > > > >> The new church has been delayed AGAIN (completion now due Easter of >> 2002); the committee hasn't received any submissions that really >> knocked >> them out. > > Bud, and no reason not to share this with others, > > Here is a temporary URL for part of an incipient website for my > church. The > building was designed 45 years ago by organist/architect Gordon > Johnson, and > built on a very limited budget, an important consideration in the > design. The > church had a Lowrey or something similar for many years, and about > seven > years ago, a few years before my time there began, they found, with > help from > Patrick Murphy, a 1916 Hook & Hastings tracker organ, which, thanks to > Gordon > Johnson's concern and foresight, seems to belong in the space. He > clearly had > this in mind right from the start. > > We (Manders) find that some churches, in thinking of a new instrument, > > express the hope that it won't be so prominent that people will > worship the > organ. In this building, the organ is prominent, but the eye is drawn > to the > altar, not to the balcony. The balcony is over the narthex, by the > way, a > rather good use of space. > > If this sort of design is of interest, I will gladly put you in touch > with > Gordon, who, having retired from his long time organ position, has, > with his > wife Gladys, now joined both our church and choir. They have an e-mail > > address. > > http://trinitychurch.hypermart.net/building.html > > Malcolm   --------------36594AC64DC373021EEF6603 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> <body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> Thanks, Malcolm, but we're too far along ... the plans are out for bids .... the delay has been in the permit process ... I did the best I could to prepare for an organ, but evidently it wasn't enough space, so we have to re-engineer. <p>Cheers, <p>Bud <p>ManderUSA@aol.com wrote: <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>In = a message dated 2/23/2001 3:49:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>quilisma@socal.rr.com = writes:</font></font> <br>&nbsp; <br>&nbsp; <blockquote TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><font = face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>The new church has been delayed AGAIN (completion now due Easter = of</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>2002); the committee = hasn't received any submissions that really knocked</font></font> <br><font face=3D"arial,helvetica"><font size=3D-1>them = out.</font></font></blockquote>   <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Bud, and = no reason not to share this with others,</font></font></font> <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Here is a = temporary URL for part of an incipient website for my church. = The</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>building = was designed 45 years ago by organist/architect Gordon Johnson, = and</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>built on = a very limited budget, an important consideration in the design. = The</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>church = had a Lowrey or something similar for many years, and about = seven</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>years ago, a few years before my time there began, they found, with help = from</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Patrick = Murphy, a 1916 Hook &amp; Hastings tracker organ, which, thanks to = Gordon</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Johnson's = concern and foresight, seems to belong in the space. He clearly = had</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>this in = mind right from the start.</font></font></font> <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>We = (Manders) find that some churches, in thinking of a new = instrument,</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>express = the hope that it won't be so prominent that people will worship = the</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>organ. In = this building, the organ is prominent, but the eye is drawn to = the</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>altar, = not to the balcony. The balcony is over the narthex, by the way, = a</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>rather = good use of space.</font></font></font> <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>If this = sort of design is of interest, I will gladly put you in touch = with</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>Gordon, = who, having retired from his long time organ position, has, with = his</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font size=3D-1>wife = Gladys, now joined both our church and choir. They have an = e-mail</font></font></font> <br><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#000000"><font = size=3D-1>address.</font></font></font> <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000FF"><font size=3D-2><a = href=3D"http://trinitychurch.hypermart.net/building.html">http://trinitychu= rch.hypermart.net/building.html</a></font></font></font> <p><font face=3D"Arial"><font color=3D"#0000FF"><font = size=3D-2>Malcolm</font></font></font></blockquote>   </body> </html>   --------------36594AC64DC373021EEF6603--