PipeChat Digest #1842 - Monday, February 26, 2001
 
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Wells Cathedral Choir
  by <NAShepherd@aol.com>
Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!)
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Postludes
  by "r" <basset3@warwick.net>
Re: Postludes
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Postludes
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Postludes
  by "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@home.com>
salaries
  by "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Re: salaries
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
RE: Postludes
  by "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org>
Re: salaries
  by <Innkawgneeto@cs.com>
Re: salaries
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
RE: salaries
  by "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca>
RE: salaries
  by "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org>
Re: salaries
  by "Pat Maimone" <patmai@juno.com>
Re: salaries
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:29:45 -0400   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1228924706=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" ; format=3D"flowed"   > I've always gone for the organ. My favorite is a choice >between a Methodist church with a 'lectrical and a salarly of $450, and >another Methodist church with a 3/30 Austin (1958) and a salary of $250 = which >required me to move 30 miles outside of town, which meant I then had to >commute six days a week to work AND go to school. > >Believe me. The Austin was worth it!! >   Was that weekly or monthly?   Randy Runyon organist, Immanuel Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati runyonr@muohio.edu --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1228924706=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=3D"us-ascii"   <excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller> I've always gone for the organ. My favorite is a choice   between a Methodist church with a 'lectrical and a salarly of $450, and   another Methodist church with a 3/30 Austin (1958) and a salary of $250 which   required me to move 30 miles outside of town, which meant I then had to   commute six days a week to work AND go to school.     Believe me. The Austin was worth it!!     </smaller></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><smaller>   Was that weekly or monthly? </smaller></fontfamily>   Randy Runyon   organist, Immanuel Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati   runyonr@muohio.edu   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1228924706=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D--  
(back) Subject: Wells Cathedral Choir From: <NAShepherd@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:54:32 EST     --part1_e5.2d38bc2.27cbd638_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Just a note to say that Wells Cathedral Choir directed by Malcolm Archer = wit=3D h=3D20 Rupert Gough (Organ) will be giving a concert at Keynsham Parish Church = (St=3D20 John The Baptist) on Saturday 10th March at 7.30pm. The programme = includes=3D20 music by Byrd, Purcell, Britten, S.S.Wesley and others. Tickets (=3DA310 = Centr=3D e=3D20 Nave and =3DA36.00 North/South aisles) are available by telephoning Bath = Festi=3D val=3D20 Trust Box Office on 01225 463362. All welcome.=3D20   Other concerts of interest to church musicians include organ recitals on = the=3D =3D20 following dates: (All at 7.30pm) Tickets 01225 463362   24th March - Alison Howell (Assistant Organist) 5th May - David Briggs (Gloucester Cathedral) 23rd June - Andrew Nethsingha (Truro Cathedral) 14th July - Neil Shepherd, Alison Howell and Choir 5th September - Nigel Ogden (BBC Radio Two)   Neil Shepherd Organist and Director of Music, St John's Parish Church, Keynsham 6 Priory Road, Keynsham, Bristol, BS31 2BX, UK Telephone/Fax 0117-908-2567 Websites: www.zyworld.com/stjohnchoir www.zyworld.com/wesm   --part1_e5.2d38bc2.27cbd638_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML><FONT FACE=3D3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0">Just a note to say that Wells Cathedral Choir = directed=3D by Malcolm Archer with=3D20 <BR>Rupert Gough (Organ) will be giving a concert at Keynsham Parish = Church=3D20=3D (St=3D20 <BR>John The Baptist) on Saturday 10th March at 7.30pm. The programme = includ=3D es=3D20 <BR>music by Byrd, Purcell, Britten, S.S.Wesley and others. Tickets = (=3DA310 C=3D entre=3D20 <BR>Nave and =3DA36.00 North/South aisles) are available by telephoning = Bath F=3D estival=3D20 <BR>Trust Box Office on 01225 463362. All welcome.=3D20 <BR> <BR>Other concerts of interest to church musicians include organ recitals = on=3D the=3D20 <BR>following dates: (All at 7.30pm) Tickets 01225 463362 <BR> <BR>24th March - Alison Howell (Assistant Organist) <BR>5th May - David Briggs (Gloucester Cathedral) <BR>23rd June - Andrew Nethsingha (Truro Cathedral) <BR>14th July - Neil Shepherd, Alison Howell and Choir <BR>5th September - Nigel Ogden (BBC Radio Two) <BR> <BR><B>Neil Shepherd</B> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D1 FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Ar=3D ial" LANG=3D3D"0"><I>Organist and Director of Music, St John's Parish = Church,=3D20=3D Keynsham</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D2 = FAMILY=3D3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D =3D3D"Arial" LANG=3D3D"0"></I> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3D1 FAMILY=3D3D"SERIF" = FACE=3D3D"Basker=3D ville" LANG=3D3D"0">6 Priory Road, Keynsham, Bristol, BS31 2BX, UK <BR>Telephone/Fax 0117-908-2567 <BR>Websites: www.zyworld.com/stjohnchoir <BR> www.zyworld.com/wesm</FONT></HTML>   --part1_e5.2d38bc2.27cbd638_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipe Organs in Worship (Read Disclaimer first!!) From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:59:27 EST     --part1_45.2d55427.27cbf37f_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 2/26/01 3:31:15 PM !!!First Boot!!!, runyonr@muohio.edu =   writes:     > Was that weekly or monthly? > >   Silly boy....   .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..   monthly, of course!! ;-)     Bruce ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres at http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/   --part1_45.2d55427.27cbf37f_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 2/26/01 3:31:15 PM !!!First Boot!!!, runyonr@muohio.edu <BR>writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Was that weekly or = monthly? <BR> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>Silly boy.... <BR> <BR>. <BR>. <BR>. <BR>. <BR>. <BR>. <BR>. <BR>. <BR>. <BR> <BR>monthly, of course!! &nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo, Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres at = &nbsp;&nbsp;http://members.tripod.com/Brucon502/</FONT></HTML>   --part1_45.2d55427.27cbf37f_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Postludes From: "r" <basset3@warwick.net> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:23:09 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_007C_01C09FF7.43159400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   What is the true nature of a postlude?   In my years of listening and playing, I've heard the postlude sound the = =3D same as the prelude (just nice music to leave by); or a march that sends = =3D one forth into the week ahead; and also the "jump out of your seat and =3D run stand around the organ" toccatas (those small groups usually always = =3D applaud after the organist pushes the final cancel or releases the tutti = =3D piston).   I'd like hearing list members' thoughts on the nature of the postlude.   Robert Clooney (Middletown, NY)   ------=3D_NextPart_000_007C_01C09FF7.43159400 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>What is the true nature of a postlude?</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>In my years of listening and playing, I've heard the = =3D postlude=3D20 sound the same as the prelude (just nice music to leave by); or a march = =3D that=3D20 sends one forth into the week ahead; and also the "jump out of your seat = =3D and run=3D20 stand around the organ" toccatas (those small groups usually always =3D applaud=3D20 after the organist pushes the final cancel or releases the tutti=3D20 piston).</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>I'd like hearing&nbsp;list members' thoughts on the = =3D nature of=3D20 the postlude.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Robert Clooney (Middletown, =3D NY)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_007C_01C09FF7.43159400--    
(back) Subject: Re: Postludes From: "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:11:02 -0400   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1228911427=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" ; format=3D"flowed"   >What is the true nature of a postlude? > >In my years of listening and playing, I've heard the postlude sound >the same as the prelude (just nice music to leave by); or a march >that sends one forth into the week ahead; and also the "jump out of >your seat and run stand around the organ" toccatas (those small >groups usually always applaud after the organist pushes the final >cancel or releases the tutti piston). > >I'd like hearing list members' thoughts on the nature of the postlude. > >Robert Clooney (Middletown, NY)     Darn good question. Does anyone recall reading the anecdote about G.F.Handel, in which he was visiting a church and was invited to "play them out" on the organ at the end of divine service, and improvised so well that the parishioners, by and large, stayed to listen. The resident organist, then exclaimed, "No, no, Mr. Handel, that is not how it is done." And slid onto the bench and began to play. People immediately left in droves. "_That_, sir, is how you play them out, " he said, beamingly.   Randy Runyon organist, Immanuel Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati runyonr@muohio.edu --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1228911427=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=3D"us-ascii"   <excerpt><smaller>What is the true nature of a postlude?     In my years of listening and playing, I've heard the postlude sound the same as the prelude (just nice music to leave by); or a march that sends one forth into the week ahead; and also the "jump out of your seat and run stand around the organ" toccatas (those small groups usually always applaud after the organist pushes the final cancel or releases the tutti piston).     I'd like hearing list members' thoughts on the nature of the postlude.     Robert Clooney (Middletown, NY)   </smaller></excerpt><smaller>     </smaller>Darn good question. Does anyone recall reading the anecdote about G.F.Handel, in which he was visiting a church and was invited to "play them out" on the organ at the end of divine service, and improvised so well that the parishioners, by and large, stayed to listen. The resident organist, then exclaimed, "No, no, Mr. Handel, that is not how it is done." And slid onto the bench and began to play. People immediately left in droves. "_That_, sir, is how you play them out, " he said, beamingly.   Randy Runyon   organist, Immanuel Presbyterian Church, Cincinnati   runyonr@muohio.edu   --=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D_-1228911427=3D=3D_ma=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D--  
(back) Subject: Re: Postludes From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:32:27 -0800   > What is the true nature of a postlude? > > Robert Clooney (Middletown, NY) >   Something as short as possible to facilitate a much-needed trip to the = rest-room after an hour and a half on the bench at High Mass (grin).   Actually, I play marches and all SORTS of FORMIDABLE trash for closing = voluntaries because (1) the congregation LOVES marches and formidable = trash, (2) I'm not going to attempt much good literature on Le Grand = Hammond (grin), and (3) unlike the opening voluntary, they chatter through = it anyway. And no, playing serious literature won't solve THAT problem ... = I've tried it.   On a more serious note, I DO find that there IS a dearth of GOOD, *short* = (under five minutes) postludes ... and yes, I've long since exhausted the = Orgelbuechlein and most of the other short chorale preludes AND free = pieces (pace, Bruce), both ancient and modern. More and more I find myself = improvising on the Recessional Hymn, Hammond or no Hammond (grin).   In the new church, perched in splendid isolation in the west gallery with = the Surf City Moller, I'll probably do more ... but NOW people stops by = the console (on the main floor in the back) to say "good morning" and/or = compliment the choir, and/or ask me something, so I'd BETTER be playing = something I can play in my SLEEP.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Postludes From: "Russ Greene" <rggreene2@home.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:37:50 -0600   > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not = understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.   --MS_Mac_OE_3066039471_481155_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit   On 2/26/01 12:23 PM, r wrote:   In my years of listening and playing, I've heard the postlude sound the = same as the prelude (just nice music to leave by); or a march that sends one forth into the week ahead; and also the "jump out of your seat and run = stand around the organ" toccatas (those small groups usually always applaud = after the organist pushes the final cancel or releases the tutti piston).   I'd like hearing list members' thoughts on the nature of the postlude.   Both preludes and postludes should contribute to the mood of the specific service which they "surround". The prelude should wean the listeners away from their everyday lives and build feelings in them which will help them worship in the service to come. The postlude should help the congregation = to celebrate the successful worship experience they have just had, = reinforcing the feelings which the specific service has created.   Both, therefore, may be contemplative or solemn or celebratory or even fanciful - it all depends on the service! Reinforce the service and forget trying to do a solo recital and you'll never go far wrong.   Cheers, Russ   --MS_Mac_OE_3066039471_481155_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: Postludes</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> On 2/26/01 12:23 PM, r wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>In my years of listening and playing, I've heard the postlude = s=3D ound the same as the prelude (just nice music to leave by); or a march = that =3D sends one forth into the week ahead; and also the &quot;jump out of your = sea=3D t and run stand around the organ&quot; toccatas (those small groups = usually =3D always applaud after the organist pushes the final cancel or releases the = tu=3D tti piston).<BR> <BR> I'd like hearing list members' thoughts on the nature of the postlude.<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> Both preludes and postludes should contribute to the mood of the specific = s=3D ervice which they &quot;surround&quot;. The prelude should wean the = listener=3D s away from their everyday lives and build feelings in them which will = help =3D them worship in the service to come. The postlude should help the = congregati=3D on to celebrate the successful worship experience they have just had, = reinfo=3D rcing the feelings which the specific service has created.<BR> <BR> Both, therefore, may be contemplative or solemn or celebratory or even = fanc=3D iful - it all depends on the service! Reinforce the service and forget = tryin=3D g to do a solo recital and you'll never go far wrong.<BR> <BR> Cheers,<BR> Russ </BODY> </HTML>     --MS_Mac_OE_3066039471_481155_MIME_Part--    
(back) Subject: salaries From: "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:13:24 -0800 (PST)   What is the proper etiquette for discussing salaries at our music jobs? I = know they vary widely, of course, but as a good southern boy my mommy taught me = such things are not polite topics of conversation - although I have done = everything except quote a figure!     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Randy Terry Minister of Music, Organist & Choirmaster The Episcopal Church of St. Peter Redwood City, California   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: salaries From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:37:52 -0800   Piffle (grin)! My tax returns are a matter of public record, aren't they? = I make about $1000 a month, plus computer, car and housing allowance, health = insurance, and wedding and funeral fees (of which there aren't many, since we only = marry and bury communicants). I'm CONSIDERED to be full-time, but that salary is = more like QUARTER-time, given the cost of living in Orange County, CA. But I don't = mind ... I like the church, the people, the choir, and (most of the time) the Rector, = and they've supported me through multiple health crises. I'm semi-retired ... = we're a good fit.   Cheers,   Bud   randy terry wrote:   > What is the proper etiquette for discussing salaries at our music jobs? = I know > they vary widely, of course, but as a good southern boy my mommy taught = me such > things are not polite topics of conversation - although I have done = everything > except quote a figure! > > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > Randy Terry > Minister of Music, Organist & Choirmaster > The Episcopal Church of St. Peter > Redwood City, California > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: RE: Postludes From: "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:56:04 -0800       -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of quilisma@socal.rr.com   Bud writes: >More and more I find myself improvising on the Recessional Hymn, Hammond = or no Hammond (grin).   After almost 20 years in service playing, I quit worrying about how difficult a piece was, whether it was composed or improvised, etc., etc.   What is most important as someone else said, was the suitability of the music.   Personally, I try my best to include a mix of composed vs. improvised, and different periods for the prelude, which I think for most people and musicians would be the more important than the exit music, and then I = really do not think twice about the postlude - if something needs to be fudged = on, then the postlude is is. There is absolutely nothing wrong with repeating the hymn, if that is what is to be done, or whatever.          
(back) Subject: Re: salaries From: <Innkawgneeto@cs.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:19:17 EST   I personally think it's private information. Salaries are so variable. = Now other things, such as housing allowance, continuing education and etc -- sharing that you get those as part of a package is one thing. Saying = exact amounts is another.   Thats' my opinion and I'm sticking to it :)   Neil  
(back) Subject: Re: salaries From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:28:42 -0800   At 02:13 PM 2/26/2001 -0800, you wrote: >but as a good southern boy my mommy taught me such >things are not polite topics of conversation - although I have done >everything except quote a figure!<snip>   ....which is partially why wages and benefits are so depressed in the South. No one down there's got the balls to stick their heads together = and go, "Hey! Yaw'll know we're gittin' screwed here?"   dB    
(back) Subject: RE: salaries From: "Andrew Mead" <mead@eagle.ca> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:36:12 -0500   Why not check out the RCCO's website. They have a table that is very specific for organists salaries. Most churches in Canada use it as a benchmark for compensation. The figures are in Canadian $'s but but I = think it translates fairly into the American scheme with one major = exception--our health care is publicly funded, and is a benefit whether you are on = payroll or not.(prescriptions, dental care, private or semi private = hospitalization are covered by private insurance if one wishes )So, Americans should pad = the final figure somewhat.   The table is a wonderful tool to place before church administrations-- eliminates a lot of discomfort.   Andrew Mead   PortHope, Ontario   At 02:13 PM 2/26/2001 -0800, you wrote: >but as a good southern boy my mommy taught me such >things are not polite topics of conversation - although I have done >everything except quote a figure!<snip> dB      
(back) Subject: RE: salaries From: "Randy Terry" <randyterry@laumc.org> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:42:18 -0800       -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of Bob Scarborough   >...which is partially why wages and benefits are so depressed in the >South. No one down there's got the balls to stick their heads together = and >go, "Hey! Yaw'll know we're gittin' screwed here?"   Actually, I find that people in CA are fairly polite when discussing this topic. I guess I am just wondering if that would help people in knowing what they *ought* to be able to expect.   It would be interesting if someone actually did a study on what church musicians do in various areas of the country and what their salary ranges are. I know we are generally underpaid, and even in the San Francisco Bay area, organists are not plentiful, but I wonder if the situation is really such that we feel we are getting "screwed?" If so, then why in the world = do we continue? I guess we need something to fuss about!!   There are musicians back home in Florence Alabama that are making the same income for the same jobs as we are here, only back there you can rent a wonderful 3 bdrm/2 bath house for $500/mo., and here a 2/bdrm 1 bath apartment is around $2K. My point is, in my small hometown the part-time music people in the medium to large churches are not underpaid. And in = both areas there are smaller churches that only pay gas money....   Randy Terry Facilities Manager Los Altos United Methodist Church      
(back) Subject: Re: salaries From: "Pat Maimone" <patmai@juno.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:12:44 -0500   Dear Randy and Pipechatters, Check out the AGO's web site.. http://www.agohq.org   There is a salary guide listed.   Randy mentioned the extremely high costs of renting an apartment in the Bay area; there needs to be a cost-of-living factor included in determining salaries for church musicians.   Pat Maimone <patmai@juno.com> Post Chapel West Point, NY III/57 Aeolian-Skinner/Moeller/Gress-Miles ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj.  
(back) Subject: Re: salaries From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:13:33 -0800   Actually there is a book, something like "Compensation for Church Workers" = (I have to look at the church for the exact title) that gives all KINDS of = tables and comparisons.   At least some RC dioceses are tying organists' compensation and benefits = to what they pay schoolteachers ... not great, but at least viable since they have = to more-or-less compete with what public schools are paying in order to keep = their lay teachers.   Personally, I think the AGO guidelines ($40K for full time for someone = with a DOCTORATE??!!) are low, bordering on the absurd. Yes, $40K would be FINE = if you happened on an endowed Episcopal church in a small town in the Deep South = (and there ARE still some) where you could buy a house for next to nothing (at = least by California standards) and EVERYTHING costs LESS, *but* ... how many of = those situations are there?   This is the first time in my long and checquered career that I've actually = run a small full-time program WITHOUT *having* to do anything ELSE to make ends = meet, and it's INteresting (grin).   First of all, during high season it's WAY more than forty hours a week, = and it's usually seven DAYS a week. That PERHAPS used to even out in the summer, = but starting last summer the Rector wanted the full choir and full High Mass = all summer long, which meant I had to prepare EVERYTHING in GREAT detail for a substitute so the High Mass could continue and I could take my vacation.   On balance, I do MOST of the prep work at home on my own schedule ... the = church only sees me three or four days a week for services and printing, etc., = but I take care to turn in ALL my work to the Rector via e-mail so HE knows what = I'm doing.   I have one choir, one rehearsal, two Sunday Masses, and one weekday = Evensong to prepare for, and THAT keeps me MORE than busy.   There SHOULD be a children's choir, and there WILL be, when I get an = assistant, but *I* simply don't have the time to do it properly.   And I KNOW the Rector wants a concert series when we get into the new = building. THAT I can do, because it's mostly e-mails and telephone calls, as long as = I can get the choir or somebody else to handle publicity and tickets ... well, = we DO have a Marketing Director (grin).   I do VERY little recruitment of singers, mostly because I've GOT just = about everybody in the parish who CAN sing (grin) ... and the pool of talent is = very small. AND it's generally known that the choir works VERY hard for LONG = hours (grin).   Cheers,   Bud