PipeChat Digest #1763 - Friday, January 12, 2001
 
RE:  LA archdiocese cans Dobson?
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Gaston Dethier piece
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Anatomy of a Strike - NOT!
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: OFF-TOPIC (if you like) favorite Italian church stories
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Anatomy of a Strike - Where does the truth lie? A personal rant------
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: Moller Reeds
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: LA archdiocese cans Dobson?
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Anatomy of a Strike - Where does the truth lie? A personal  rant-----
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: LA archdiocese cans Dobson?
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
 

(back) Subject: RE: LA archdiocese cans Dobson? From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 20:58:45 -0800   At 04:11 PM 1/11/2001 -0600, you wrote: >It's generally not my style to dignify ridiculous rumors with a >response.<snip>   ....but, fortunately for fact-finding in this case, you did!   >However, I feel compelled to say that there's no truth whatsoever to the >notions advanced by Bob Scarborough that the Archdiocese of Los Angeles = has >somehow "trashed" its contract with our firm.<snip>   ....as has been confirmed by two sources today, in fact...the "rumor" was just that, and is probably, as was described by one source, "wishful thinking" on the part of some (many??). I didn't "advance" any such rumor =   other than to merely report its existence, and ask for commentary and = fact, which came forth in record time. The "rumor" is now dead, which is a good =   thing, and I didn't even have to pay any phone tolls to get the story straightened out!   >Mr. Scarborough and any others are invited to visit >during the installation<snip>   I'll pass, but thanks.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Gaston Dethier piece From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:38:21 -0500   for those who may be interested.........   I just did some counting, and the entire "Christmas" is 321 measures, = versus 110 as it appears in the "Diane Bish Christmas Collection", which is a red spiral-bound book. She sure did cut it down <G>.   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Anatomy of a Strike - NOT! From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 22:57:54 -0800   At 07:50 PM 1/11/2001 -0500, you wrote: >For any of those interested in complete details of Moller's demise, a=20 >lengthy article concerning this can be found at:<snip>   WARNING! RIGHT WING B.S. ALERT!   Venable, a well-known union busting firm, minion of Big Business and=20 promoter of right-wing causes, was indeed called in to be union busters in= =20 the M=F6ller fracas. The truth of the matter is that the UE tried to hold= =20 the line against wholesale downgrading of job descriptions, work rules,=20 benefits and wages against the specter of an entirely incompetent=20 management at M=F6ller, the real source of their financial difficulties. As= =20 has been covered here already, M=F6ller was doing very dumb things in the=20 areas of marketing and sales, and was "low balling" bids on rather large=20 installations, with no hope of attaining profitability, just to get the=20 contracts. Many at the time marvelled that M=F6ller was still able to hold= =20 on as long as it did, considering its recent history.   In the '60s. M=F6ller came as close as any builder to "mass-producing" pipe= =20 organs as did Rudolph Wurlitzer and Co. in the 1920s. Results were=20 invariably poor, except on the jobs of highest cost and prestige. A good=20 many 1960s and '70s "stock model" M=F6llers have been either completely=20 revoiced or done away with entirely. As one factory representative said,=20 "They used to cheat on wind like crazy...anything to save a buck here and=20 there. It's a wonder the things would play at all at full organ, and many= =20 of them didn't. Of course, fixing the problems was always 'on the=20 customer', unless the customer had a lawyer go over the contract before=20 signing." So now, we have a M=F6ller company in disrepute over its business= =20 practices and shoddy tonal and physical design...although it was nicely=20 profitable at the time.   Moving onward in time, M=F6ller found itself being increasingly pressured in= =20 the marketplace by small, non-union "cottage" builders as well as=20 increasingly competent digital organs from the likes of the Markowitz=20 family's Allen Co. and CBS's Rodgers Organ division, later sold to Roland=20 of Japan. Its reputation sullied by poor products in the 1960's and '70s,= =20 M=F6ller now had a "double whammy" to fight...rebuilding a reputation of=20 shoddiness that became standard in the second part of the century (most=20 agree M=F6ller started into decline after the Whitelegg years ending in=20 1948), and keen competition from small builders and digital organ=20 manufacturers. Meanwhile, management practices by M=F6ller management at= the=20 Hagerstown plant were dismally inadequate. Cost controls were=20 non-existent, and the antiquated, uninsulated brick factory building cost=20 more to heat in winter than any other single expense the company had.   Enter Ron Ellis, eminently unqualified as he was to be a corporate head of= =20 any business, and the "fun" began. Although tonal and other quality issues= =20 began to be righted to a degree from the various faux pas of earlier years,= =20 realities of the business were never taken in consideration, and=20 increasingly poor decisions were made. As Veneble's "scab backer" reports,= =20 the UE's members' average wages in 1988 were around $10.50 an hour, a fact= =20 verified by my UE contacts. Benefits were nothing to point to with pride=20 in the unionized industrial labor scene as a whole, but it was all the pipe= =20 organ industry could afford, as was borne out by the collective bargaining= =20 history. Rather than realize that M=F6ller's costs were out of control on= =20 many fronts, Ellis and his hired assassins decided to take the easy way out= =20 and blame their employees, hopefully busting their union and unilaterally=20 slashing wages and benefits.   Emboldened by the "RayGun era" anti-union ferment orchestrated by=20 organizations such as the National Association of Manufacturers and the=20 U.S. Chamber of Commerce as well as "RayGun"'s own sacking of PATCO air=20 traffic controllers, union busting and reduction of workers' wages,=20 benefits and working conditions became a cause celebr=E8 for management= hacks=20 who didn't want to do the dirty work of containing costs on all=20 fronts. Neither were they ever given to admit management mistakes in=20 judgement, the norm for all American corporations until very recently. A=20 good "mega-example" of poor management ruining a once-powerful company is=20 AT&T, whose demise I witnessed first hand. Although the two industries are= =20 widely different in field of endeavor and scope, the story is the=20 same: management can't do their job, so they blame it one those less able= =20 to defend themselves economically...the workers.   Veneble's staff hack is quite adept at showing the awesome power management= =20 has in supposed "collective" bargaining under the Republican-designed=20 Taft-Hartley Act of 1947, which was vetoed by Harry S Truman only to be=20 overridden by a right-wing and corporate funded Congress by the slimmest of= =20 majorities. Taft-Hartley, a bastardization of the National Labor Relations= =20 Act of 1935 ("Wagner Act") continues to hamstring workers' attempts at=20 parity at the bargaining table to this day. But I digress....   My analysis of the M=F6ller situation, with concurrence by people within the= =20 UE, generally absolve the workers of any "fault" in the collapse of M=F6ller= ,=20 as is claimed by the Veneble union buster. In fact, it was incompetent=20 management and a cloudy reputation earned during earlier years that caused= =20 this company to fold. The "Marco" group only made things worse upon their= =20 entrance into the frey, and had no real interest in building or selling=20 pipe organs. They simply wanted to carve up the cadaver and sell the name,= =20 despite what the Veneble hack preaches. Notable also is how the "Marco"=20 group used "captive meetings" with its employees to threaten and intimidate= =20 them into caving in to further cutbacks in wages and benefits. The "work=20 rules" that the Veneble hack complains about were things as simple as=20 seniorty! It was obvious that "Marco" was out to bust the union by wearing= =20 them down, since the Ellis-lead management was unable to bust them using=20 traditional lockout and scab replacement techniques.   The M=F6ller workers were hardly enjoying the fruits of middle-class life at= =20 the short wages they incurred. Most were trying to hold on to something=20 far more important that just a few cents here and there on wages...health=20 care, something "Marco" wanted to rid themselves of. The labor situation=20 at M=F6ller was repeated thousands of times in the '80s and early '90s all= =20 across America, in companies large and small, as "RayGun-Bush tinkle-on"=20 economics were held to be the answer to America's problems. As time has=20 showed, it most certainly wasn't.   Since 1992, pro-business, right wing "lapdogs" placed in the NLRB by RayGun= =20 and Bush have been retired, and a more-or-less balanaced Board now=20 exists. After this happened, M=F6ller-type union busting campaigns as tried= =20 by Ellis management have decreased precipitously...although they still=20 happen far too regularly. As the consulting firm of Mercer and Associates= =20 reported to me (and several AT&T mangers who did NOT want to hear it) in=20 1994, cost of union labor isn't the problem..it's poor management. This=20 was confirmed when AT&T CEO Bob Allen was shown the door in 1996 after=20 almost driving the company into complete chaos. Alas, the damage he did,=20 much like the damage Ellis and his predecessors did to M=F6ller, was too=20 great, and the company may never recover.   PS: Anyone wanna buy some AT&T shares? CHEAP?    
(back) Subject: Re: OFF-TOPIC (if you like) favorite Italian church stories From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2001 23:04:28 -0800   At 08:45 PM 1/11/2001 -0800, Bud-by-the-beach wrote: >Have you listened to the VATICAN choir lately??!!<snip>   No thanks. My delicate sensibilities might be thrown into disarray!   Bob-by-the-Joshua-Trees ....marvelling that we actually got RAIN!    
(back) Subject: Re: Anatomy of a Strike - Where does the truth lie? A personal rant------- From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:13:07 EST   Well Bob,,,,,definitely the tirade that I for one expected from you. <G> I am 62 YO,,,,,,I was making Moller wages in those years in the 80's but never thawt I was below middle class.---- Visited Moller in the 80's many times for material. Always marvelled at = the 70 degree temp in most of the plant in the wintertime. Employees stated: " =   ITS AGREEMENT TEMPERATURE BOY,,,, we demand it, and we damn well get it. = And I dont want it cold standing around on break and stuff" Yep,,,,sorry to say most of the plant looked like it was on break most of = the time----- Besides my organ business, I worked in quite a few industries over my = working career. Agreement and non-agreement, and personally, I liked being able to =   speak for myself within the company and generally got along well in non-agreement jobs. HOWEVER,,,,the last job was one with a recently = "upsized" national company which after upsizing was 2/3 agreement and 1/3 non-agreement, this was in 1991, and my division of the company was non-agreement and always had been. Best paying but most miserable job I ever encountered. Guess which division of the company corporate = "management" beat on unmercifully? Why? Because they could!! The employees had no = voice whatsoever.. It was beyond belief miserable till a heart attack and = bypass and early retirement. I never really appreciated any of the "bennies" of = an agreement job until then,,,,but I sure do now,--- and happily back in the organ field again when I wanna be,,, with no illiterate uneducated supervision yelling "What you eatin that lunch yet for boi,,,,get that = done and get to fixin stuff,,right now,,,you hear?" Yep,,,I am not any fan of RayGun or Spluush. OK,,,,I have vented folks,,,thanks ;-) ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Reeds From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:46:22 EST     --part1_78.f0c8547.27901e5e_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/11/01 5:29:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, = randyterry@laumc.org writes:     > I've played a number of mid sized 3 manual > instruments from the 50's where the flue work, though dated, and the = reeds > are more equal in character. The reeds in this period in the rather > utilitiarian organs I am speaking of are not bad, they just are not > particularly interesting either. One characteristic of these = instruments > that I have found very useful is that even in a good sized 3 man/pedal = with > 30-35 ranks, often the only mixture was in the Swell. When these > instruments *work* which many do very well, they are quite good in = church > playing.   I recall playing a 50s Moller at Southside Baptist Church, Jacksonville = FL. Although it is completely enclosed and in large deep chambers (carpet, of course, is a given!), the instrument is extremely pleasant and great fun = to play. The reeds are especially nice; it's unfortunate that they elected = to play the Oboe at 4, as it's much nicer as a unison solo stop and a chorus reed, and the wrong colour for a Clarion. The Clarinet is really fine. = The spec is:   Great (enclosed) Open Diapason 8 Spitzflute 8 Octave 4 Super Octave 2 Fourniture IV Cymbale III Tremolo Chimes (ch) Great 4 - Unison Off Swell to Great 16 8 4 Choir to Great 16 8 4   Choir (enclosed) Holzgedeckt 8 Erzahler 8 Erzahler Celeste 8 tc Koppelflote 4 Nazard 2-2/3 Koppelflote 2 (ext) Clarinet 8 Tremolo Choir 16 - Unison Off - 4 Chimes Swell to Choir 16 8 4   Swell (enclosed) Rohrbass 16 (ext) Rohrflote 8 Viola de Gambe 8 Viola Celeste 8 tc Spitzprincipal 4 Rohrflote 4 (ext) Plein Jeu III Trompette 8 Oboe 4 Tremolo Swell 16 - Unison Off - 4   Pedal (enclosed with Gr) Subbass 16 Violone 16 (ext Swell Viola) Rohrbass 16 (sw) Diapason 8 Bourdon 8 (ext) Rohrflote 8 (sw) Principal 4 (ext) Double Trompette 16 (sw ext) Trompette 8 (sw) Clarion 4 (sw) Great to Pedal 8 Swell to Pedal 8 4 Choir to Pedal 8 4   There is another Moller (about 4 years older) of similar size across the street at South Jacksonville Presbyterian that did not fare so well. = They elected to have "baroque" reeds and got a Krummhorn and a Holzregal which = are not particularly pleasant. This organ is installed in chambers on each = side of a divided choir and is essentially trapped in the chancel. Inadequate tone openings don't help much either. It's spec:   Great (enclosed with choir) Open Diapason 8 Bourdon 8 Octave 4 Grave Mixture II Fourniture IV Chimes   Choir (enclosed with great) Holzgedeckt 8 Erzahler 8 Erzahler Celeste 8 tc Koppelflote 4 Nazard 2-2/3 Koppelflote 2 (ext) Krummhorn Tremolo   Swell (enclosed) Contre Gambe 16 (ext) Rohrflote 8 Viole de Gambe 8 Viole Celeste 8 tc Spitzprincipal 4 Harmonic Flute 4 Rohrflote 2 (ext) Plein Jeu III Contre Trompette 16 (ext) Trompette 8 Holzregal 4 Tremolo   Pedal (enclosed with Great) Subbass 16 Contre Gambe 16 (sw) Contre Erzahler 16 (ch) Rohrbass 16 (sw) Octave 8 Rohrflote 8 (sw) Violone 8 (sw) Octave 4 (ext) Rohrflote 4 (sw) Contre Trompette 16 (Sw) Trompette 8 (sw) Clarion 4 (sw)   There is another Moller at First UMC in downtown Jax installed in 1966 or = so which distinctly demonstrates the decline in tonal quality which continued =   into the 70s and 80s. I don't recall the spec of FUMC and, although it = was farily larger than the above instruments, it has undergone considerable changes, although nothing seems to have really made an improvement.   The 2/21 Moller from 1985) that I played in Gainesville (spec on my = webpage) was closer to the FUMC instrument, but had the distinct advantage of a = fine acoustic. However, the acoustics would have to be really, REALLY good to make the reeds sound good.     Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres at < Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502 >   --part1_78.f0c8547.27901e5e_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/11/01 5:29:47 PM !!!First Boot!!!, randyterry@laumc.org <BR>writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I've played a = number of mid sized 3 manual <BR>instruments from the 50's where the flue work, though dated, and the = reeds <BR>are more equal in character. &nbsp;The reeds in this period in the = rather <BR>utilitiarian organs I am speaking of are not bad, they just are not <BR>particularly interesting either. &nbsp;One characteristic of these = instruments <BR>that I have found very useful is that even in a good sized 3 man/pedal = with <BR>30-35 ranks, often the only mixture was in the Swell. &nbsp;When these <BR>instruments *work* which many do very well, they are quite good in = church <BR>playing.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR>I recall playing a 50s Moller at Southside Baptist Church, = Jacksonville FL. &nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>Although it is completely enclosed and in = large deep chambers (carpet, of <BR>course, is a given!), the instrument = is extremely pleasant and great fun to <BR>play. &nbsp;&nbsp;The reeds are = especially nice; it's unfortunate that they elected to <BR>play the Oboe = at 4, as it's much nicer as a unison solo stop and a chorus <BR>reed, and = the wrong colour for a Clarion. &nbsp;&nbsp;The Clarinet is really fine. = &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR>The spec is: <BR> <BR>Great (enclosed) <BR>Open Diapason 8 <BR>Spitzflute 8 <BR>Octave 4 <BR>Super Octave 2 <BR>Fourniture IV <BR>Cymbale III <BR>Tremolo <BR>Chimes &nbsp;(ch) <BR>Great 4 &nbsp;- &nbsp;Unison Off <BR>Swell to Great 16 8 4 <BR>Choir to Great 16 8 4 <BR> <BR>Choir (enclosed) <BR>Holzgedeckt 8 <BR>Erzahler 8 <BR>Erzahler Celeste 8 &nbsp;tc <BR>Koppelflote 4 <BR>Nazard 2-2/3 <BR>Koppelflote 2 &nbsp;(ext) <BR>Clarinet 8 <BR>Tremolo <BR>Choir 16 &nbsp;- &nbsp;Unison Off &nbsp;- &nbsp;4 <BR>Chimes <BR>Swell to Choir &nbsp;16 8 4 <BR> <BR>Swell (enclosed) <BR>Rohrbass 16 &nbsp;(ext) <BR>Rohrflote 8 <BR>Viola de Gambe 8 <BR>Viola Celeste 8 &nbsp;tc <BR>Spitzprincipal 4 <BR>Rohrflote 4 &nbsp;(ext) <BR>Plein Jeu III <BR>Trompette 8 <BR>Oboe 4 <BR>Tremolo <BR>Swell 16 - Unison Off &nbsp;- &nbsp;4 <BR> <BR>Pedal &nbsp;(enclosed with Gr) <BR>Subbass &nbsp;16 <BR>Violone &nbsp;16 &nbsp;&nbsp;(ext Swell Viola) <BR>Rohrbass &nbsp;16 &nbsp;&nbsp;(sw) <BR>Diapason 8 <BR>Bourdon 8 &nbsp;(ext) <BR>Rohrflote 8 &nbsp;(sw) <BR>Principal &nbsp;4 &nbsp;(ext) <BR>Double Trompette &nbsp;16 &nbsp;&nbsp;(sw ext) <BR>Trompette &nbsp;8 &nbsp;&nbsp;(sw) <BR>Clarion 4 &nbsp;&nbsp;(sw) <BR>Great to Pedal 8 <BR>Swell to Pedal 8 4 <BR>Choir to Pedal 8 4 <BR> <BR>There is another Moller (about 4 years older) of similar size across = the <BR>street at South Jacksonville Presbyterian that did not fare so = well. &nbsp;&nbsp;They <BR>elected to have "baroque" reeds and got a = Krummhorn and a Holzregal which are <BR>not particularly pleasant. = &nbsp;This organ is installed in chambers on each side <BR>of a divided = choir and is essentially trapped in the chancel. &nbsp;Inadequate <BR>tone = openings don't help much either. It's spec: <BR> <BR>Great &nbsp;(enclosed with choir) <BR>Open Diapason 8 <BR>Bourdon 8 <BR>Octave 4 <BR>Grave Mixture II <BR>Fourniture IV <BR>Chimes <BR> <BR>Choir &nbsp;(enclosed with great) <BR>Holzgedeckt 8 <BR>Erzahler 8 <BR>Erzahler Celeste 8 &nbsp;tc <BR>Koppelflote 4 <BR>Nazard 2-2/3 <BR>Koppelflote 2 &nbsp;(ext) <BR>Krummhorn <BR>Tremolo <BR> <BR>Swell (enclosed) <BR>Contre Gambe 16 &nbsp;(ext) <BR>Rohrflote 8 <BR>Viole de Gambe 8 <BR>Viole Celeste 8 &nbsp;tc <BR>Spitzprincipal 4 <BR>Harmonic Flute 4 <BR>Rohrflote 2 &nbsp;(ext) <BR>Plein Jeu III <BR>Contre Trompette 16 (ext) <BR>Trompette 8 <BR>Holzregal 4 <BR>Tremolo <BR> <BR>Pedal &nbsp;(enclosed with Great) <BR>Subbass 16 <BR>Contre Gambe 16 &nbsp;(sw) <BR>Contre Erzahler &nbsp;16 &nbsp;(ch) <BR>Rohrbass 16 &nbsp;(sw) <BR>Octave 8 <BR>Rohrflote 8 &nbsp;(sw) <BR>Violone &nbsp;8 &nbsp;(sw) <BR>Octave 4 &nbsp;(ext) <BR>Rohrflote 4 &nbsp;(sw) <BR>Contre Trompette 16 &nbsp;(Sw) <BR>Trompette 8 &nbsp;(sw) <BR>Clarion 4 &nbsp;(sw) <BR> <BR>There is another Moller at First UMC in downtown Jax installed in 1966 = or so <BR>which distinctly demonstrates the decline in tonal quality which = continued <BR>into the 70s and 80s. &nbsp;&nbsp;I don't recall the spec of = FUMC and, although it was <BR>farily larger than the above instruments, it = has undergone considerable <BR>changes, although nothing seems to have = really made an improvement. <BR> <BR>The 2/21 Moller from 1985) that I played in Gainesville (spec on my = webpage) <BR>was closer to the FUMC instrument, but had the distinct = advantage of a fine <BR>acoustic. &nbsp;However, the acoustics would have = to be really, REALLY good to <BR>make the reeds sound good. <BR> <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres at &lt; &nbsp;Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&gt;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_78.f0c8547.27901e5e_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: LA archdiocese cans Dobson? From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 03:53:23 EST     --part1_f5.674ccc7.27902003_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   In a message dated 1/11/01 10:12:38 PM !!!First Boot!!!, = jpanning@cal-net.net writes:     > A stoplist can be > found on our website at http:www.dobsonorgan.com ; additional = construction > photos will be posted there soon.     I was unable to find it. Perhaps some clues??? ;-)   Bruce Cornely ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo Bohawow!" Visit Howling Acres at < Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502 >   --part1_f5.674ccc7.27902003_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>In a message dated = 1/11/01 10:12:38 PM !!!First Boot!!!, jpanning@cal-net.net <BR>writes: <BR> <BR> <BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; = MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">A stoplist can be <BR>found on our website at http:www.dobsonorgan.com ; additional = construction <BR>photos will be posted there soon. </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" = SIZE=3D3 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" SIZE=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" = FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> <BR> <BR>I was unable to find it. &nbsp;&nbsp;Perhaps some clues??? &nbsp;;-) <BR> <BR>Bruce Cornely &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;~ &nbsp;Cremona502@cs.com &nbsp; <BR>with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ ""Haruffaroo Bohawow!" <BR>Visit Howling Acres at &lt; &nbsp;Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502 = &nbsp;&gt;</FONT></HTML>   --part1_f5.674ccc7.27902003_boundary--  
(back) Subject: Re: Anatomy of a Strike - Where does the truth lie? A personal rant------- From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:25:24 -0800   At 03:13 AM 1/12/2001 -0500, you wrote: >I am 62 YO,,,,,,I was making Moller wages in those years in the 80's but >never thawt I was below middle class.----<snip>   Accoding to the Department of Labor, you were!   >Always marvelled at the >70 degree temp in most of the plant in the wintertime.<snip>   There are regulations in many states, as well as OSHA standards, for=20 workplace temperatures in buildings. An agreed-to 70=B0 temperature is=20 hardly unreasonable. What is UNreasonable is management continuing to heat= =20 a totally UNinsulated building in the middle of winter, year after year,=20 without containing the cost through modernization! M=F6ller should have=20 dumped the old barn by the second energy crisis in '78, but CHOSE not=20 to. BIG mistake. And, it get COLD in Hagertown sometimes in winter...REAL= =20 cold, so I found out at -5=B0 back in the mid-70s! You could see vapor=20 rising from M=F6ller's roof as their fuel nicely turned the roof of that= barn=20 into a hotplate.   >I liked being able to >speak for myself within the company and generally got along well in >non-agreement jobs.<snip>   ....or so you THOUGHT, anyway.   >Guess which division of the company corporate "management" >beat on unmercifully? Why? Because they could!! The employees had no voice >whatsoever..<snip> >I never really appreciated any of the "bennies" of an >agreement job until then,,,,but I sure do now,<snip>   People ALWAYS learn this lesson too late. Ask 150,000 people laid off by=20 AT&T that are now making half the pay and even less in benefits...not to=20 mention the onerous "employment at will" labor policy of the US for=20 non-bargained-for workers.   >Yep,,,I am not any fan of RayGun or Spluush.<snip>   Pullup a chair 'n pop some popcorn...the next four years will be VERRRRY=20 interesting.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: LA archdiocese cans Dobson? From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2001 01:27:43 -0800   At 03:53 AM 1/12/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Ias unable to find it. Perhaps some clues??? ;-) <snip>   'Tis there. Click on "news", then "new projects", then the cathedral, and =   voila! It's...uh...interesting!   DeserTBoB