PipeChat Digest #1792 - Sunday, January 28, 2001
 
Organ Supply Houses
  by "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com>
Re: Moller Rechesting/Extensions
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Moller Extraction - Day Two (X-posted)
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Re: Moller Rechesting/Extensions
  by "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Re: Organ Supply Houses
  by "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Re: Organ Supply Houses
  by "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com>
Changes to the Moller (Dentures, mayhaps) After the Extraction. . .
  by "Richard Schneider, President" <arpncorn@davesworld.net>
slider, pitman, electro-mechanical
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Organ Supply Houses
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: sostenuto
  by "Gary Blevins" <gsblvns@camalott.com>
Re: St. Peter's Episcopal Redwood City CA
  by "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Re: Moller Extraction - Day Two (X-posted)
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: St. Peter's Episcopal Redwood City CA
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
Re: Moller Rechesting/Extensions
  by <RonSeverin@aol.com>
Re: St. Peter's Episcopal Redwood City CA
  by "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
P.S.
  by "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com>
Re: Moller Rechesting/Extensions
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: Organ Supply Houses From: "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:05:32 -0500   <html> <DIV>I have been trying for some time now to locate the organ supply = houses in the US.&nbsp; All I can find is Organ Supply Industries and = Klann Organ Supply.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Isn't there Durst Organ Supply, and couple others and a leather = supply house in the US????</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>If so, how do I contact them???</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I have been trying to get ahold of Organ Supply Industries, but their = e-mail come back to me saying they are undeliverable.&nbsp; I have not yet = been in Contact with Klann.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I am thinking about going with Laukhuff, but I don't know if it's = cheaper with the exchange rate, or just a waste of time.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Please let me know.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Thanks,</DIV> <DIV>Jason</DIV><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer = at <a = href=3D"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>=    
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Rechesting/Extensions From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:09:20 -0500   Speaking of cotton-covered non color-coded cabling, I have a pic of = several men wiring the relays on the Atlantic City monster. How on earth did they know which end was which and what note was what?!   Musta ben a lotta buzzin' goin' on!   Sure glad someone invented color-coding!   Rick    
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Extraction - Day Two (X-posted) From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:17:48 -0600     -----Original Message----- From: quilisma@socal.rr.com > >Here's a question that's sure to provoke a discussion (grin): the organ >man wants to replace the pitman action with electro-mechanical. He says >it's something like $18 a note to releather the pitmans, and $14 a note >to change it to electro-mechanical.   If that were done you would certainly have a lot of easy options that cou= ld be done, and the valves would last for a life time. I am interested in how it works out as I may be in the same situation whe= n our M=F6ller needs new leather.   > >The Rector continues like a kid with a new bicycle (grin) ...   (-; I think, maybe,?,, I see 2 people on new bicycles. !! ;-)   Luther   >Cheers, >Bud >    
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Rechesting/Extensions From: "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:32:35 -0800 (PST)     --- Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> wrote: > What on earth for? "Slippy sliders" indeed...this > smacks of > "trackerbackerism" in but a smaller form! > Regressive engineering thought > regarding organs is only helping shove them into the > dustbin of musical > history by making the instrument all the more costly > and inefficient. As > for voicing and attack concerns using EM action, > this should be a > non-issue, at the least.   ***********   While use (and overuse in my case) of unification is definitely not the best case scenario, this conversation seems to be getting way off topic. Bud has told me he is not interested in creating a concert organ but a "church" organ. I am of the same mind. From what my builder has told me it is just as inexpensive and easier to design new D/E chests from scratch if that is desired, but I have heard lots of good suggetions about moving a few things around to unit E/P, and restoring the original straight E/P. The drawback is when it has to be releathered.   In my case I have a lucious pair of Gemshorns. My builder talked me into the new Tom Anderson Principal in the swell rather than a Viola and/or celeste.   There are not that many builders anymore who put the only reed on a straight chest. It is common practice to unify and duplex the reed. I can't see a lot of room for unifying the other ranks in Bud's case as they are so generic, and if you have a 4' coupler you don't need to unify the Hohl Flute at 4. However, you take the Trumpet and put it on a unit chest alone that gives space for a Celeste which I know is important. The instrument needs a color reed somewhere and while I don't think you have to have it - a mild mixture would be most welcome.   However, If they spend their money restoring the instrument as is (revoicing is a given in any case) they are going to be stuck living with it for quite a while.   To raise funds for our Peterson upgrade we are simply asking 100 people to donate a 1 time gift of $150.00. Now there is installation, etc., but the stuff is almost plug & play nowadays, other than buzzing out the chest wires.   You guys and gals don't rain on the parade here. There is an artistic solution and they don't come after you have owned an instrument like this for only three days!   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Supply Houses From: "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:38:10 -0800 (PST)   I AM NOT SURE DURST IS STILL AN INDEPENDENT CORP. THE MAJOR HOUSES ALL PUT YOU THROUGH AN INQUISITION. DEPENDING ON WHAT YOU WANT - PETERSON IS TOP DOG IN THE SOLID STATE DEPT. IN U.S. SYNDYNE IN WA IS SUPPLYING MANY OTHER HOUSES WITH SAM'S,ETC.   --- Jason Comet <diaphone64@hotmail.com> wrote:   <HR> <html> <DIV>I have been trying for some time now to locate the organ supply houses in the US.&nbsp; All I can find is Organ Supply Industries and Klann Organ Supply.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Isn't there Durst Organ Supply, and couple others and a leather supply house in the US????</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>If so, how do I contact them???</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I have been trying to get ahold of Organ Supply Industries, but their e-mail come back to me saying they are undeliverable.&nbsp; I have not yet been in Contact with Klann.&nbsp; </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>I am thinking about going with Laukhuff, but I don't know if it's cheaper with the exchange rate, or just a waste of time.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Please let me know.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Thanks,</DIV> <DIV>Jason</DIV><br clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href=3D"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>=     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org       __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Supply Houses From: "Luther Melby" <lmelby@prtel.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:37:44 -0600     For leather you could try, Leather Supply House, South Bend, Indiana. email LEATHERMUS@aol.com Luther   <From: Jason Comet <> Subject: Organ Supply Houses       Isn't there Durst Organ Supply, and couple others and a leather supply house in the US????   Thanks, <Jason    
(back) Subject: Changes to the Moller (Dentures, mayhaps) After the Extraction. . . From: "Richard Schneider, President" <arpncorn@davesworld.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:20:34 -0600   On Saturday, 27 Jan 2001 12:09:34 -0600 Tim Bovard <tmbovard@arkansas.net> wrote:   > The problem one often runs into when "electrocuting" an old chest shell = is > that things inside aren't necessarily laid out such that all the magnets > will *fit*. > If you truly wish to change the action for more flexibility in spec, I'd > think it would be sensible to go to the greater expense of new e-m = chests > to hold the new action. This would give the opportunity to rearrange = the > pipework if necessary, and would also allow the future additions to be > integrated fully into the organ. And again, there's not *that many = pipes' > worth* of chest to deal with! (comparitively...<G>)   I tend to concur. One major advantage of having new chests built, besides the obvious advantage of not worrying about whether or not the Magnets will fit, and designing a new layout which will be much more likely successful in the new space is the fact that the better producers of Electro-Mechanical Chests are able to produce a chest Toeboard design which in many ways replicates that of a Slider Chest channel.   I speaking here specifically of the work done by Duys & Nicholson of Northfield, MN. Formerly employees of the Rutz Organ Company, they started their own company which employs C-N-C machinery for producing their Toeboards. They are laid out on CADD, then converted into D-F-X files which the router reads, then proceeds to do all of the drilling, countersinking, cross-channeling, etc. that is needed. Then all that has to happen is the tow halves of the Toeboards are glued together like a sandwich.   We've done several jobs using this design and I have to say that the results are well worth the expense. There is also only one brand of magnet for Electro-Mechanical magnets to consider: Peterson! They are by far and away superior to the Reisner or Klann designs and have never given a moment's trouble on any of our jobs, and we've used a BUNCH of them!   I will be glad to forward an EMAIL Address for anyone wishing to contact Duys & Nicholson directly. I have no connection with the company other than being a very satisfied customer and a good friend of both Pete Duys and Morgan Lowry, the company's founders.   Faithfully,   "Grandpa Arp in the Corn Patch" Richard Schneider SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Organbuilders 41-43 Johnston St. P. O. Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX arp@schneiderpipeorgans.com Business EMAIL rnjs@bwsys.net Personal EMAIL http://www.schneiderpipeorgans.com Web Page URL    
(back) Subject: slider, pitman, electro-mechanical From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 19:48:11 -0800   Well, I asked for opinions (grin) ...   OK, here's another dimension ... we couldn't AFFORD a NEW organ right now ... we want to refurbish and *slightly* enlarge an existing instrument.   It would probably make the most sense to add unit or pitman chests for the new stops and leave everything else strictly alone, except for maybe moving things around a bit on the existing chests after we releather them. The only thing I REALLY want to unify is the Trompette, and add the 16' octave to it. After all, the organ IS completely straight now, except for the Pedal extensions and borrows.   In fifty years (the projected life of releathered pitmans ... we don't have much pollution) all the principals involved in this project will be dead ... me, the Rector, the organ-builder, the Vestry, the donors. Who KNOWS what style of organ-building will be in style? French-fries-in-a-box (grin)? Portuguese 18th century? AND, more likely than not, the church will resell this organ in twenty years when the main church is built and get THEIR $500K Buzard, or whatever the equivalent is in twenty years.   OTOH, I don't see any particular reason to plant 1966 Moller pipes (revoice or not) on slider chests (grin).   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Supply Houses From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:06:32 EST   In a message dated 1/27/01 8:15:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, diaphone64@hotmail.com writes:   << I have been trying for some time now to locate the organ supply houses = in the US. >>   Try Arndt Organ Supply of Ankeny, Iowa. arndtorg@juno.com. 877 964 1274 = They have a wide range of parts. For electronic controls try Emutek. www.emutek.com. 732 919 7878 They are not widely known but their stuff is = top notch and is about the most versatile system around. There is also Justin Matters (Madders?) in S. Dakota. They sell DE magnets and electronic controls. I don't do business with them so I don't know their address or number. There is also P and S organ supply in the UK. I have been trying = to get a catalog from them but their US rep. has so far sent me nothing. As = far as I know Durst has been gone for many years now. I think they were = absorbed by OSI.   Good luck:   Alan B  
(back) Subject: Re: sostenuto From: "Gary Blevins" <gsblvns@camalott.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 22:18:19 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0091_01C088AF.0D5FA440 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Hello Rick and Bruce, The way I understand sostenutos to work on mechanical relays, the =3D sostenuto feature is installed like any independent stop for that =3D manual. The leads which would ordinarily wire from the gang switch to =3D the windchest would instead wire back to where the the keys wire to the = =3D relay. Not only would any note or chord be held (or stuck) when the =3D the sostenuto be applied, but any key depressed while the sostenuto is =3D held would also become stuck until the sostenuto is released. (:kinda =3D makes that manual become a mine field when the sostenuto is applied, =3D doesn't it?:) If I read Randy's description of the Schoenstein sostenuto feature =3D right, it will release the held note or chord when another key is =3D depressed (?). Apparently, solid state took this existing convenenient = =3D feature and improved upon it. Anyway, I thought I'd share that, -Gary -----Original Message----- From: VEAGUE <dutchorgan@svs.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, January 27, 2001 2:18 PM Subject: Re: St. Peter's Episcopal Redwood City CA =3D20 =3D20 =3DFF=3DFE=3D20 For Bruce and listers: =3D20 A SOSTENUTO is basically a theatre organ feature which enables =3D the organ to hold notes or chords on the Great manual via a foot button = =3D on the swell pedal. This leaves both hands free to diddle on other =3D manuals. Technically how it works is a mystery to me. The affected keys =3D are not in the down position, however. The guys at the famed Paramount Music Palace WurliTzer in =3D Indianapolis used this trickery quite often, but it was achieved thru =3D all solid state wizardry. =3D20 Rick   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0091_01C088AF.0D5FA440 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3D3Dtext/html;charset=3D3Diso-8859-1 =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3D3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000>Hello Rick and Bruce,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#000000></FONT>The way I understand sostenutos to =3D work on=3D20 mechanical relays, the sostenuto feature is installed like any =3D independent stop=3D20 for that manual.&nbsp; The leads which would ordinarily wire from the =3D gang=3D20 switch to the windchest would instead wire back to where the the keys =3D wire to=3D20 the relay.&nbsp; Not only would any note or chord be held (or stuck) =3D when&nbsp;=3D20 the the sostenuto be applied, but any key depressed while the sostenuto = =3D is held=3D20 would also become stuck until the sostenuto is released.&nbsp; (:kinda =3D makes=3D20 that manual become a mine field when the sostenuto is applied, = doesn't=3D20 it?:)</DIV> <DIV>If I read Randy's description of the Schoenstein sostenuto feature = =3D right,=3D20 it will release the held note or chord when another&nbsp; key is =3D depressed=3D20 (?).&nbsp; Apparently, solid state took this existing convenenient =3D feature and=3D20 improved upon it.</DIV> <DIV>Anyway, I thought I'd share that,</DIV> <DIV>-Gary</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE=3D20 style=3D3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = =3D 5px"> <DIV><FONT face=3D3DArial size=3D3D2><B>-----Original =3D Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=3D20 </B>VEAGUE &lt;<A=3D20 =3D href=3D3D"mailto:dutchorgan@svs.net">dutchorgan@svs.net</A>&gt;<BR><B>To:= =3D20 </B>PipeChat &lt;<A=3D20 =3D href=3D3D"mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org">pipechat@pipechat.org</A>&gt;<BR><B= =3D >Date:=3D20 </B>Saturday, January 27, 2001 2:18 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: St. =3D Peter's=3D20 Episcopal Redwood City CA<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>&yuml;&thorn;<!DOCTYPE = =3D HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"><HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> <BODY bgColor =3D3D #fffff0>=3D20 <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#ff00ff face=3D3DEric size=3D3D2>For Bruce = and=3D20 listers:</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#ff00ff face=3D3DEric size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D A&nbsp;SOSTENUTO is=3D20 basically a theatre organ feature which enables the organ to hold =3D notes or=3D20 chords on the Great manual via a foot button on the swell pedal. =3D This leaves=3D20 both hands free to diddle on other manuals.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#ff00ff face=3D3DEric size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; =3D Technically how it=3D20 works is a mystery to me. The affected keys are not&nbsp;in the down = =3D   position, however.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#ff00ff face=3D3DEric size=3D3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The = =3D guys at the famed=3D20 Paramount Music Palace WurliTzer in Indianapolis used this trickery = =3D quite=3D20 often, but it was achieved thru all solid state =3D wizardry.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D3D#ff00ff face=3D3DEric=3D20 size=3D3D2>Rick</FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0091_01C088AF.0D5FA440--    
(back) Subject: Re: St. Peter's Episcopal Redwood City CA From: "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 20:45:05 -0800 (PST)     --- Cremona502@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/27/01 7:53:31 PM !!!First > Boot!!!, > randyterryus@yahoo.com writes: > > > > It will not past muster withpurists, but I think > it will be neat. > > As a purist the only real problem I have with the > specification is that there > are no real strings. It would be interesting to > see how the 15 ranks are > distributed. What is a "base" rank? How does a > "sostenuto" pedal work in > a pipe organ? **************   When I get over this darn flu and get back to the office I will post the basic stops and what pitch they play at on great swell and pedal   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Extraction - Day Two (X-posted) From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 23:57:52 EST   Dear Desert Bob:   Thankyou for your most kind remarks on this project. You are right on the money and worth a heck of a lot more than just 2=A2. I'm happy for Bud and am so happy you clarified what I said in a previous post. The course of action anticipated, as you point out makes the most sense. I'm glad there are still some like you with good common sense, and decency.   Your truely,   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: St. Peter's Episcopal Redwood City CA From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:07:40 EST   In a message dated 1/27/01 3:05:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, Cremona502@cs.com writes:   << As a purist the only real problem I have with the specification is that =   there are no real strings. >>   Good point. Otherwise this looks like a very nice organ. Good used strings =   (sometimes with chests) can be had dirt cheap if you beat the bushes.   Cheers:   Alan B    
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Rechesting/Extensions From: <RonSeverin@aol.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 00:17:19 EST   Dear Randy:   Randy writes:   However, If they spend their money restoring the instrument as is (revoicing is a given in any case) they are going to be stuck living with it for quite a while.   You guys and gals don't rain on the parade here. There is an artistic solution and they don't come after you have owned an instrument like this for only three days!   Ron Severin writes:   I say well said. New chests are really out of the question in this = situation. Releathering is more expensive, and will not give Bud the desired outcome. The new church will be awhile in being built. This will give time to raise the money to do this little organ up right. This is the best artistic solution for Bud's situation. I appreciate your remarks which were all positive.   Thanks for your good common sense too!   Ron Severin  
(back) Subject: Re: St. Peter's Episcopal Redwood City CA From: "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 21:57:21 -0800 (PST)     --- TRACKELECT@cs.com wrote: > In a message dated 1/27/01 3:05:24 PM Eastern > Standard Time, > Cremona502@cs.com writes: > > << As a purist the only real problem I have with the > specification is that > there > are no real strings. >> > > Good point. Otherwise this looks like a very nice > organ. Good used strings > (sometimes with chests) can be had dirt cheap if you > beat the bushes.   Randy says:   We have chancel chambers for 50 ranks but the choir and organ are in the back. The walls are thick concrete as is the ceiling. There are tuning issues between the exposed Diapason 8 and Principal 4, so we decided one pair of celestes is enough. We could have gone with a Geigen, which is how I was leaning, but I took my builder's advice and went with a real Principal. We are out of room now! Of course, someday I will luck upon a fine 1930's vintage Skinner for the chancel and then we will move the choir up there and our present instrument will be the Gallery Organ, playable from its own console and the 4 manual Harris console in front! > > Cheers: > > Alan B > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: P.S. From: "randy terry" <randyterryus@yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 22:01:16 -0800 (PST)     the builder has a huge inventory of everything but reeds, we are simply out of room! Plus I have a John Hendriksen Viola I am saving!   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Moller Rechesting/Extensions From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 01:42:18 EST   In a message dated 1/27/01 8:05:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, desertbob@rglobal.net writes:   << Bore a hole in a block of hardwood, attach it to the toe board, >> Pssst. Just between you and me (I hope no one is listening) The old pouch boards work well for this. Don't give away my secret.OK?